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Whats the point of brawling?


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On 12/21/2020 at 6:43 PM, RainbowMoon said:

Brawling's legit the best choice for Guyleth, Yuri, Felix and Catherine. And I wouldn't exactly say any of them suck. Even the ones who aren't as good like Dedue, Caspar, Raphael, Balthus or Alois won't do much better than War Master either. If a unit excels at brawling, chances are it's gonna be their best option.

Personally, I prefer to ignore brawling with my Byleth and just focus on swords, authority and white magic. Swords because I love giving Byleth a forged Levin Sword and watching him hit enemies 3 spaces away (and since my Byleths usually end up with at least decent magic, it's perfect for them), white magic because, while Byleth's healing spells aren't great (it's just the basic 1-range healing spells) you can't really have too many healers and I have to have him on the battlefield anyway for most fights so it gives him extra utility. 

I'm sure brawling's good for Byleth, but I haven't felt a need to give him more attacks since he's already fast, and I'd likely have to pass up either 1-3 range attacking or extra utility as a healer.

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5 hours ago, Anathaco said:

As already pointed out, the males you’d make guard adjutants don’t even have to be worth your time- you literally just have to have them in your house, which is a requirement each house can fulfil at least one of- Raphael, Caspar, and Ashe are units you may want to relegate to guard adjutant duty. Alois joins with the brawling rank to certify for brawler immediately if you don’t plan on using him (since you dislike brawling overall I figured you might not), and Cyril can be trained up to armour knight or brawler from chapter 5 (since you’ve already said you don’t like him as a unit). That’s three possible guard adjutants, completely free of charge since the units in question wouldn’t see combat utility, and are completely free recruits as long as you actually explore. As for the class diversity it really doesn’t matter, since it’s not like they’re doing anything outside of being adjutants. Just the two intermediate classes of brawler and armoured knight are enough.

Yeah - if you're using a unit as a "dedicated guard adjutant", their stats and level are irrelevant. All that matters is - how easily can I get them into Brawler or Armor Knight? Are they ever force-deployed, and therefore non-adjunctifiable? And, do they possess an offense-boosting support with the unit they will be backing up?

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5 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Personally, I prefer to ignore brawling with my Byleth and just focus on swords, authority and white magic. Swords because I love giving Byleth a forged Levin Sword and watching him hit enemies 3 spaces away (and since my Byleths usually end up with at least decent magic, it's perfect for them), white magic because, while Byleth's healing spells aren't great (it's just the basic 1-range healing spells) you can't really have too many healers and I have to have him on the battlefield anyway for most fights so it gives him extra utility. 

I'm sure brawling's good for Byleth, but I haven't felt a need to give him more attacks since he's already fast, and I'd likely have to pass up either 1-3 range attacking or extra utility as a healer.

The main draw of brawling on fast units like Guyleth and Yuri isn't really to help them double, it's that brawling classes have so much more to offer compared to sword classes that you just get a better deal overall with a brawling build. Especially when things like Killer Knuckles exist. Brawl Avo +20 being a mastery skill that anyone can get (as opposed to Sword Avo being locked to your dancer) certainly helps too. That said though, there's certainly nothing wrong with sword builds. It definitely sounds like you've got a nice setup there with your magic Byleth idea. Now that you mention it, I think I might try something similar on my next run. Maybe a War Cleric build to shake things up from my usual Falcon Knight.

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1 minute ago, RainbowMoon said:

The main draw of brawling on fast units like Guyleth and Yuri isn't really to help them double, it's that brawling classes have so much more to offer compared to sword classes that you just get a better deal overall with a brawling build. Especially when things like Killer Knuckles exist. Brawl Avo +20 being a mastery skill that anyone can get (as opposed to Sword Avo being locked to your dancer) certainly helps too. That said though, there's certainly nothing wrong with sword builds. It definitely sounds like you've got a nice setup there with your magic Byleth idea. Now that you mention it, I think I might try something similar on my next run. Maybe a War Cleric build to shake things up from my usual Falcon Knight.

I see. Thanks for the info. I might try a brawling build in one of my two remaining playthroughs (Azure Moon and Silver Snow).

Thanks. My Byleth is less a magic Byleth and more a sword Byleth that can also use magic. I usually also give him a forged rapier since it's effective against cavalry and armoured units, so, since Byleth also learns grounder and bane of monsters, it means he can counter every non-basic-infantry unit. On my Verdant Wind route, I ended up also giving him the Seiros Shield because I couldn't think of a better person to give it too and it ended up serving him well. 

So.. yeah; my Byleth usually ends up not necessarily being the most optimal for anything specific, but he does end up being able to do a lot of things very well. 

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1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

I see. Thanks for the info. I might try a brawling build in one of my two remaining playthroughs (Azure Moon and Silver Snow).

Thanks. My Byleth is less a magic Byleth and more a sword Byleth that can also use magic. I usually also give him a forged rapier since it's effective against cavalry and armoured units, so, since Byleth also learns grounder and bane of monsters, it means he can counter every non-basic-infantry unit. On my Verdant Wind route, I ended up also giving him the Seiros Shield because I couldn't think of a better person to give it too and it ended up serving him well. 

So.. yeah; my Byleth usually ends up not necessarily being the most optimal for anything specific, but he does end up being able to do a lot of things very well. 

No problem 🙂

It's fun to try out different builds in 3H since there's just so much you can do with each character. I'm playing through CF right now with a completely magic-based Edelgard and she's surprisingly good.

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On 12/19/2020 at 10:44 PM, Dark Holy Elf said:

I prefer Grappler because it's more mobile (fist-users suffer like crazy on any turn they can't get to within 1 square of an enemy, you really want their mobility as good as possible) and has Fierce Iron Fist, but WM has its uses too. Women have to go War Cleric, but at least Brawl Avo +20 is a really cool skill.

Um, Grappler and War Master, according to this website at least, both have 6 movement. Neither one is more mobile than the other. 

 

On 12/22/2020 at 8:53 PM, Dark Holy Elf said:

(and I think the generally low ratings Caspar gets suggests I'm not alone)

I'm pretty sure Caspar's low ratings are mainly from him having a bane in authority. 

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1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

Um, Grappler and War Master, according to this website at least, both have 6 movement. Neither one is more mobile than the other. 

 

I'm pretty sure Caspar's low ratings are mainly from him having a bane in authority. 

Grappler and War Master actually have the benefit of thief movement, so they won’t get hurt by movement penalties like forests and things like that.

And as much as I love Caspar, it’s definitely more than just his authority bane keeping him from getting good ratings. His bases (notably in speed) are what hurts him the most, probably more so than his authority bane.

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1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

Um, Grappler and War Master, according to this website at least, both have 6 movement. Neither one is more mobile than the other. 

They both have 6 movement, but Grappler has thief movement, so can move normally through forests or sand.

War Master however does get move penalties from terrain.

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40 minutes ago, LJ_Tenma said:

Grappler and War Master actually have the benefit of thief movement, so they won’t get hurt by movement penalties like forests and things like that.

And as much as I love Caspar, it’s definitely more than just his authority bane keeping him from getting good ratings. His bases (notably in speed) are what hurts him the most, probably more so than his authority bane.

24 minutes ago, GarEEE said:

They both have 6 movement, but Grappler has thief movement, so can move normally through forests or sand.

War Master however does get move penalties from terrain.

Thanks for the answer. I either never noticed or forgot that Grappler could move normally through forests or sand even though I made Raphael one in my Verdant Wind playthrough. 

I knew there were other reasons for Caspar's low ratings; I just thought that his authority bane was the main one. 

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51 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I knew there were other reasons for Caspar's low ratings; I just thought that his authority bane was the main one. 

Felix, Hilda, Hapi, and Jeritza all have authority banes as well and are all generally rated somewhere between good and great. Authority bane is never good, but on its own it's not enough to make a good unit bad.

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17 hours ago, GarEEE said:

They both have 6 movement, but Grappler has thief movement, so can move normally through forests or sand.

Not sand. Only mage-classes move normally through sand, thief-classes are still impeded.

War Monk/Cleric does move normally through sand btw.

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15 hours ago, salinea said:

Not sand. Only mage-classes move normally through sand, thief-classes are still impeded.

War Monk/Cleric does move normally through sand btw.

Building off of this, Dark and Holy Knight don't have perfect movement over sand - even when dismounted, their move is halved. I think it's the same for Valkyrie.

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9 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Building off of this, Dark and Holy Knight don't have perfect movement over sand - even when dismounted, their move is halved. I think it's the same for Valkyrie.

That’s correct. I recently did the Claude paralogue battle on my maddening run and had Hapi there as a Valkyrie since I needed the long range. The problem I have with a couple of these maps is this basically requires you to use the classes that would do well on the sand. Warlock, Bishop, Gremory, War Monks/Clerics (since they are specified as magic classes), and insert flying class here are your best bets.

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15 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Building off of this, Dark and Holy Knight don't have perfect movement over sand - even when dismounted, their move is halved. I think it's the same for Valkyrie.

I'll point out that Brawler shares the mobility advantages of Grappler. Class doesn't get used much so I assume it's not that well known.

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On 1/26/2021 at 6:46 AM, Barren said:

That’s correct. I recently did the Claude paralogue battle on my maddening run and had Hapi there as a Valkyrie since I needed the long range. The problem I have with a couple of these maps is this basically requires you to use the classes that would do well on the sand. Warlock, Bishop, Gremory, War Monks/Clerics (since they are specified as magic classes), and insert flying class here are your best bets.

I never viewed this as a big problem - if you have a Dark Knight or Valkyrie, chances are you can revert them to Mage, even if you never certified Warlock. The combat will be slightly worse, but the mobility is better than mounted, or physical infantry. Interestingly, it also establishes a niche for War Monk/Cleric - the class has the highest sand mobility of any non-flying class, and the highest of any gauntlet class. Granted, sand maps are few and far between - there's Claude's paralogue, the Seteth/Flayn paralogue, and any Auxilliary battles played on those same maps.

On 1/26/2021 at 12:38 PM, Cysx said:

I'll point out that Brawler shares the mobility advantages of Grappler. Class doesn't get used much so I assume it's not that well known.

Very true! Brawler has a theoretical niche for anyone aiming for Grappler or War Master - once Brigand is mastered, it's the ideal class for growing Gauntlet rank, with the advantage of Thief mobility. But its poor mastery makes it unattractive otherwise.

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