What are your thought's on Mystery of the emblem?

[The Moon Mage]

Personally it's my favorite game in the series but It's one game that I see not a lot of people talk about. So I would like to know your thought's on this game are.

[Spara]

I think it's quite good! I played through Book 1 recently, currently on Ch16 of Book 2. Map design has been really good, excepting maybe Anri's Way, and while the story does rely on a few too many exposition dumps, it's still got a really good story. The sound quality is really pleasant, too, though I wish Book 1 had more than two player-phase themes. 

[null]

I like it quite a bit, tbh. I think it deserves to be played along with the DS remakes. I don’t necessarily think one is better than the other, but that they’re different experiences that are worth engaging with at least once each.

FE3 feels very much to me like the A Link to the Past for FE. A quintessential title that shows its age, but holds up well for the most part. The art style is great, the music is (mostly) solid, and the gameplay is fun. I even like the story quite a bit (which I already liked from the DS games). I don’t like numbered scores, but if I had to give it one, I’d say it’s a solid 8.5/10. Great game, but with some issues due how dated it can often feel.

Edited January 10, 2021 by twilitfalchion

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Edited February 13, 2021 by Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Jotari]

Honestly, probably my least favorite game in the series. It gives us Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light with less maps in exchange for an updated UI, which would have been cool back in the day maybe, but is now obsoleted by Shadow Dragon. In terms of Book 2 the gameplay is broken with growth manipulation easily allowing you to get every unit to 20 in all stats and the story is probably the worst in the series with every antagonist save Lang being a villain killed in the previous title who is miraculously alive again. I don't think even Awakening went as far as Mystery did in this regard, and worse than Awakening where they were basically trial mode playable characters, the villains here are meant to be actual villains. In other words, it's a rehash. Hardin is a villain almost purely because of mind control and any tragedy that could be glimmered from the former friends narrative is non existent due to Book 1 failing to make him important at all (something Shadow Dragon would later repeat). But that's just the plot, I could forgive it if the writing was decent, but instead the text of the game is almost 90% a lore info dump without anything actually happening. The Lore's okay, but a bit of story is required too.

[Whitfield1999]

Probably the most "fire emblemy" fire emblem in the franchise. It may seem simple to some people, but it's the little things this game has other over entries that adds up to make it my favorite in the series.

• Super memorable maps that are large with multiple things going on in them.
• lots of deployment slots.
• rewards you for using a large portion of the cast because of the games level design and unique mechanics such as dismount(over the course of a run, I think I end up using about 25-35 characters).
• Literally no penalty to using pre promotes and promoting early.
• Exp management is super easy since the game literally tells you how much EXP an enemy gives you.
• The calculations are also piss easy to do at a glance. (skill straight up adds to your crit, 1 luck is 1 crit avoid)
•  Enemies of the same level and class have the same stats, making it easier to get a feel for how strong the enemy army is.
• It's the introduction of modern trading.
• It's also nice that all enemies have no luck
• Lots of fun staves and items that gives you a ton of options on how to clear maps.
• I think the game scales the challenge up throughout the game at a good pace. 
• the challenge overall is pretty good as long as you don't abuse star shards

Mystery is such a godlike game. I can go on and on about the strengths of this game. Only thing I don't really love about it is how star shards makes people feel the need to grind with them to make their units overpowered, but some people like that so I can't really count that as a knock against the game. Even memes like b2ch3 aren't as bad if you just say fuck it and ignore going around and use the bridge key to go straight to julian and towards the throne.

But yea, best game in the series imo, I seriously recommend it to anyone who hasn't played it yet. And if you've played it and didn't like it, I'd say give it another shot. Do something like an iron man or try to beat the game in under 200 turns, you might start to see the game in a different light if you play it different.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Whitfield1999

[Whitfield1999]

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

Hardin is a villain almost purely because of mind control and any tragedy that could be glimmered from the former friends narrative is non existent due to Book 1 failing to make him important at all.

I think hardin was a big meme in japan at the time, everyone who played fe1 when it came out loved him for being a godlike unit with good bases and good growths. So him being mind controlled to being evil was probably a big shock to everyone who loved using him in FE1

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

In terms of Book 2 the gameplay is broken with growth manipulation easily allowing you to get every unit to 20

I think this criticism is valid, but ignores the fact that star shard grinding is in many cases suboptimal for the simple reason that it's just faster and equally effective to just not to do that. also in end-game even if you've somehow got your units to 52hp and 20 defense you still get 3hko by enemies, so people who haven't been using tactics and stratagy to clear the game and only have been using busted units to get themselves through the game will find themselves having a hard time there I think.

 

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

But that's just the plot, I could forgive it if the writing was decent, but instead the text of the game is almost 90% a lore info dump without anything actually happening. The Lore's okay, but a bit of story is required too.

Yea the lore info dumps are annoying if you care about story and stuff, but there is quite a bit of story hidden in the gameplay. In chapter 8 for example. Marth's army starts right where they left off at the end of last chapter, They need to cross this bridge otherwise their escape route will be cut off. Unfortunately for them they aren't fighting the scrubs of langs army anymore, they are up against the might of archanea's elite troups. to your south powerful hero's cut off your retreat, forcing you into a desperate due or die situation.

Of course it's never said it's a due or die situation in game, but that's how I imagine the story going because that's what the gameplay suggested to me. 

Also another cool thing incase you're interested, In the same way genealogy has it's chapters accurately represent the the world they live in, FE3 chapters accurately correspond to the overworld map, giving the game a sense of scale and adventure.

I agree the story, in the traditional sense is almost non existent, but games have their own way to express emotions and scale that is unique to the medium, and that's where I think FE3 is strong in that area. FE4 does this even better, but I think this game is where kaga was first really experimenting with that idea.

7 hours ago, twilitfalchion said:

FE3 feels very much to me like the A Link to the Past for FE. A quintessential title that shows its age, but holds up well for the most part.

I've never heard it described that way, but the more I think about it the more I think you're right. I'm going describe fe3 to my friends with that from now on lol.

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Whitfield1999

[Jotari]

43 minutes ago, Whitfield1999 said:

I think hardin was a big meme in japan at the time, everyone who played fe1 when it came out loved him for being a godlike unit with good bases and good growths. So him being mind controlled to being evil was probably a big shock to everyone who loved using him in FE1

Really? But his averages are worse or equal to both Kain and Abel.

43 minutes ago, Whitfield1999 said:

I think this criticism is valid, but ignores the fact that star shard grinding is in many cases suboptimal for the simple reason that it's just faster and equally effective to just not to do that. also in end-game even if you've somehow got your units to 52hp and 20 defense you still get 3hko by enemies, so people who haven't been using tactics and stratagy to clear the game and only have been using busted units to get themselves through the game will find themselves having a hard time there I think.

I don't think Grinding is all that sub optimal. You need to collect the star shards anyway, so you don't have to go out of your way to have them, and the bonuses they provide do so by just having them in your inventory. And correct me if I'm wrong, but the game has a separate weapon and item inventory like Path of Radiance, so carrying around a bunch of Star Shards doesn't even affect how many weapons you can use, just how many vulneries you can carry. So in other words there's basically no downsides at all to growth manipulation, just occasionally putting characters next to each other to trade them around. The fact that the end game seems to be tailored towards characters with 20 in all stats seems to suggest they knew that's exactly what people were going to have by the end of the game anyway. Not to mention being able to get anyone to max stats means basically the entire army is exactly the same by the second half of the game with the only strong difference being whether they have good 1-2 range or not.

43 minutes ago, Whitfield1999 said:

Yea the lore info dumps are annoying if you care about story and stuff, but there is quite a bit of story hidden in the gameplay. In chapter 8 for example. Marth's army starts right where they left off at the end of last chapter, They need to cross this bridge otherwise their escape route will be cut off. Unfortunately for them they aren't fighting the scrubs of langs army anymore, they are up against the might of archanea's elite troups. to your south powerful hero's cut off your retreat, forcing you into a desperate due or die situation.

Of course it's never said it's a due or die situation in game, but that's how I imagine the story going because that's what the gameplay suggested to me.

Oh that reminds me of another thing that annoys me about it

How it just plain reuses maps from the first installment with little creativity. Though my ire for that goes more towards New Mystery than Old Mystery as bundling two games together no doubt ate up limited SNES memory space.

43 minutes ago, Whitfield1999 said:

 

Also another cool thing incase you're interested, In the same way genealogy has it's chapters accurately represent the the world they live in, FE3 chapters accurately correspond to the overworld map, giving the game a sense of scale and adventure.

Oh I know, I was the one who made this.

Course half of those maps came from Dark Dragon and the Sword of Light, so limited credit.

 

[Whitfield1999]

43 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Really? But his averages are worse or equal to both Kain and Abel.

He comes at a higher level and is therefore closer to promotion, so throughout the game he will always be ahead assuming you use them equally.

 

43 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I don't think Grinding is all that sub optimal. You need to collect the star shards anyway, so you don't have to go out of your way to have them, and the bonuses they provide do so by just having them in your inventory. And correct me if I'm wrong, but the game has a separate weapon and item inventory like Path of Radiance, so carrying around a bunch of Star Shards doesn't even affect how many weapons you can use, just how many vulneries you can carry. So in other words there's basically no downsides at all to growth manipulation, just occasionally putting characters next to each other to trade them around. The fact that the end game seems to be tailored towards characters with 20 in all stats seems to suggest they knew that's exactly what people were going to have by the end of the game anyway. Not to mention being able to get anyone to max stats means basically the entire army is exactly the same by the second half of the game with the only strong difference being whether they have good 1-2 range or not.

Being able to get everyone to max stats would take such an unbelievable amount of time that it's hard to say you would be even playing the game at that point. Is that what you did when you played? Just grinded until you got 20's in every stat?

"good 1-2 range" lol, that doesn't exist in old mystery, javelins weight 20, hand axes are inaccurate, and mages can't frontline. 

In my original post, I recommend to people who didn't like the game to give it another shot with a challenge in mind. Try beating the game in under 200 turns next time you play it. I think you'll find that coming up with strategies that are fast and consistent without the use of save states is fun and rewarding.

also I disagree with your analysis that your whole army with 20 in every stat would feel exactly the same(which is a very ridiculous premise). Different classes have different movement stats and movement penalties. The maps are designed in a way that takes this into account giving all your classes places where they are uniquely strong. Also in Mystery of the emblem classes are locked to one weapon, Lances and axes are extremely heavy so even your 20 speed paladin isn't doubling a hero without a slim lance. Dragons also ignore defense and are in the game very early so even if you somehow get 20 defense at that point, it doesn't really matter.

 This game is so much more then your characters stats. I'd say It's less rpg and more strategy game with light rpg elements.

43 minutes ago, Jotari said:

 

Oh that reminds me of another thing that annoys me about it

How it just plain reuses maps from the first installment with little creativity. Though my ire for that goes more towards New Mystery than Old Mystery as bundling two games together no doubt ate up limited SNES memory space.

 

 

You lost me when you said "with little creativity". In old mystery 5 maps are reused from book 1, but each of them plays completely different than book 1. Chapter 17 is the best example of this. In that map there are 2 factions on the enemy side. Gra soilders who such ass. and archanean troops. Sparing the gra soilders get you 2 units at the end of the chapter, there's also a theif with a rare resire tomb at the bottom of the map for players that are fast enough to catch him

every map reused adds something different to the table that keeps things interesting. chapter 16 has the main room closed off with you unable to see what's inside without the use of the watch staff. And since snipers with killer bows are there, if you are careless with your placement, when it does open you will be in for a nasty surprise. That whole map has way more stuff going on in it than in book 1.

 

 

I think you should try replaying old mystery. It's a really good game, but it sounds like you shot yourself in the foot in trying to "optimize". I think playing smart and fast and not giving a damn about the growths is more conducive to a fun experiance imo. I think I said this earlier, but growths really aren't shit in that game. This game is more of a strategy game with light rpg elements then an rpg with strategy elements.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Whitfield1999

[Jotari]

20 minutes ago, Whitfield1999 said:

He comes at a higher level and is therefore closer to promotion, so throughout the game he will always be ahead assuming you use them equally.

 

Being able to get everyone to max stats would take such an unbelievable amount of time that it's hard to say you would be even playing the game at that point. Is that what you did when you played? Just grinded until you got 20's in every stat?

There's really no way to grind, you realize that right? Like there's a set amount of enemies on each map. ANd it's not like you can reset levels or gain extra levels 3DS style. Once you hit 20/20 you're as good as you can get some stat boosters aside.

20 minutes ago, Whitfield1999 said:

"good 1-2 range" lol, that doesn't exist in old mystery, javelins weight 20, hand axes are inaccurate, and mages can't frontline. 

Mage's absolutely can frontline in this game, and it makes them the best units in the game. I'm looking at my end game army now and Merric has 18 defense, 10 res, 15 str and 20 in every other stats. This is typical for my army.  Aside from only having 12 defense and 2 res, Julian has 20 in every stat. And looking at their inventories I have a bunch of draco shields and goddess robes stocked too which I evidently planned to use once the chapter started.  And this is nothing resembling a carefully planned and optimized run, This is a blind playthrough of the game with a guide telling me where the secret shop is and what shards boost what stats. Which I guess if you play without knowing what in the world you're doing you can't optimize your stats as well with the shards, but I'm not that inclined to give the game credit for hiding information from the player.

20 minutes ago, Whitfield1999 said:

In my original post, I recommend to people who didn't like the game to give it another shot with a challenge in mind. Try beating the game in under 200 turns next time you play it. I think you'll find that coming up with strategies that are fast and consistent without the use of save states is fun and rewarding.

also I disagree with your analysis that your whole army with 20 in every stat would feel exactly the same(which is a very ridiculous premise). Different classes have different movement stats and movement penalties. The maps are designed in a way that takes this into account giving all your classes places where they are uniquely strong. Also in Mystery of the emblem classes are locked to one weapon, Lances and axes are extremely heavy so even your 20 speed paladin isn't doubling a hero without a slim lance. Dragons also ignore defense and are in the game very early so even if you somehow get 20 defense at that point, it doesn't really matter.

 This game is so much more then your characters stats. I'd say It's less rpg and more strategy game with light rpg elements.

And what that means in practice is that the units who don't have a horse or magic are just plain worse than the ones that do as they don't have more focused stats to work as a strength instead.

20 minutes ago, Whitfield1999 said:

You lost me when you said "with little creativity". In old mystery 5 maps are reused from book 1, but each of them plays completely different than book 1. Chapter 17 is the best example of this. In that map there are 2 factions on the enemy side. Gra soilders who such ass. and archanean troops. Sparing the gra soilders get you 2 units at the end of the chapter, there's also a theif with a rare resire tomb at the bottom of the map for players that are fast enough to catch him

every map reused adds something different to the table that keeps things interesting. chapter 16 has the main room closed off with you unable to see what's inside without the use of the watch staff. And since snipers with killer bows are there, if you are careless with your placement, when it does open you will be in for a nasty surprise. That whole map has way more stuff going on in it than in book 1.

The Gra chapter except you don't have to fight half the units isn't really the most exciting for me to be honest. I liked the pegasus rush better. I like Soulful Bridge as a resused map because it works more like an escape chapter and going up the bridge from a different direction both changes the map and makes sense in terms of geography/story. But most of the others they don't even bother to change the starting position. It's just the exact same map with some different enemy formations, and none of them stand out as uniquely better to me than their Shadow Dragon counterparts. And it's seven maps they reuse in total. Soulful Bridge, Khaden, Outside Altea, Inside Altea, Gra, Outside Archanea (Knoda Market) and Inside Archanea. Soulful Bridge, or as it's known there, the Sable Order, isn't in Book 1 because it was axed, it was in the first game though. Seven maps out of 22 is a good third of the game is reused maps. Though as I said before this was probably a necessary evil for Old Mystery is they wanted to include the entirety of book 1 due to memory space.

20 minutes ago, Whitfield1999 said:

 

I think you should try replaying old mystery. It's a really good game, but it sounds like you shot yourself in the foot in trying to "optimize". I think playing smart and fast and not giving a damn about the growths is more conducive to a fun experiance imo. I think I said this earlier, but growths really aren't shit in that game. This game is more of a strategy game with light rpg elements then an rpg with strategy elements.

I don't think you even need to optimize growths to just throw Tiki at everything before the final map and watch zero enemies threatening to kill her. The much lauded use a dragon stone to transform instead of attack in practice just takes away her durability concerns and lets her slaughter indiscriminately.

[Whitfield1999]

55 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Mage's absolutely can frontline in this game, and it makes them the best units in the game. I'm looking at my end game army now and Merric has 18 defense, 10 res, 15 str and 20 in every other stats. This is typical for my army.  Aside from only having 12 defense and 2 res, Julian has 20 in every stat. 

and yet he can still only survives 1h from dragons. You can get their stats up sure but doesn't change the fact that merric starts with 8 defense 22 hp. I get there is "no real way to grind" but you can take a fuck load of time using them, what's your turn count btw?

55 minutes ago, Jotari said:

And what that means in practice is that the units who don't have a horse or magic are just plain worse than the ones that do as they don't have more focused stats to work as a strength instead.

did you even read my post, movement penalties exist, classes being weaponed locked exists, Indoor chapters exist, base stats exist, there is plenty to distinguish units. Something tells me you aren't even reading what i'm saying fully and are just picking out some things here and there that rubbed you the wrong way.

55 minutes ago, Jotari said:

 

I don't think you even need to optimize growths to just throw Tiki at everything before the final map and watch zero enemies threatening to kill her. The much lauded use a dragon stone to transform instead of attack in practice just takes away her durability concerns and lets her slaughter indiscriminately.

I know, you don't need to optimize growths at all, thats why I said you shot yourself in the foot by optimizing them lol. Why put all that work in when you got tiki lol.

In fact you don't need growths at all in that game. The funnest I've ever had playing mystery was doing a 0% growths run so maybe try that.

also in case I failed in getting my message across, i'm not trying to argue for star shards, I think star shards are retarded and reinforce bad habits, just saying that star shards don't hurt the game at all cause they are kinda pointless and inconsequential. Those stats look good on your character, but they are ultimately less important than things like turn 1 strategies, picking the right units, and using your staves correctly.

 

P.S to mods:for the mods, I feel bad for cluttering this thread with off topic arguing. Didn't mean to get so off topic there. I don't know if theres a way to move posts to another thread or something, but if not and you feel like this cluttered the thread then feel free deleting these posts.

also to @Jotari if you want to keep discussing I think we can message each other on serenes forest? idk not used to forums.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Whitfield1999
something I added for the mods

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Whitfield1999 said:

and yet he can still only survives 1h from dragons. You can get their stats up sure but doesn't change the fact that merric starts with 8 defense 22 hp. I get there is "no real way to grind" but you can take a fuck load of time using them, what's your turn count btw?

456 it seems. Bit more than double your ltc aim. Course that's on a blind run, if I were invested and cared about low turn counts I could probably do it in a lot less than that.

1 hour ago, Whitfield1999 said:

did you even read my post, movement penalties exist, classes being weaponed locked exists, Indoor chapters exist, base stats exist, there is plenty to distinguish units. Something tells me you aren't even reading what i'm saying fully and are just picking out some things here and there that rubbed you the wrong way.

Nothing rubs me the wrong way, I just find it a valid crtisism that all the things you've mentioned end up becoming irrelevant when Merric gets 20 in every stat and can storm the battle field rendering all other advantages useless. I find Thracia (another game with growth manipulation) to be a much more qualified example of what you're talking about in how it renders it's combat (ie high stats and being able to kill things is not the most important thing in the world).

1 hour ago, Whitfield1999 said:

I know, you don't need to optimize growths at all, thats why I said you shot yourself in the foot by optimizing them lol. Why put all that work in when you got tiki lol.

In fact you don't need growths at all in that game. The funnest I've ever had playing mystery was doing a 0% growths run so maybe try that.

also in case I failed in getting my message across, i'm not trying to argue for star shards, I think star shards are retarded and reinforce bad habits, just saying that star shards don't hurt the game at all cause they are kinda pointless and inconsequential. Those stats look good on your character, but they are ultimately less important than things like turn 1 strategies, picking the right units, and using your staves correctly.

And again I'd say Thracia does all that, except it forces me to do all that. In Mystery I can just wipe the floor with every unit using something with high stats. There's no motivation beyond a challenge run not to use star shards or to one turn something. And well, as far as challenge runs go, every other game in the series has similar things going for it in that record. Why in your opinion are challenge runs uniquely enjoyable in Old Mystery compared to other games?

1 hour ago, Whitfield1999 said:

P.S to mods:for the mods, I feel bad for cluttering this thread with off topic arguing. Didn't mean to get so off topic there. I don't know if theres a way to move posts to another thread or something, but if not and you feel like this cluttered the thread then feel free deleting these posts.

also to @Jotari if you want to keep discussing I think we can message each other on serenes forest? idk not used to forums.

I don't really think it's all that off topic. The thread is "What are your thoughts on Mystery of the Emblem" and we are giving our thoughts on Mystery of the Emblem, just so happens that our thoughts conflict. Only real issue is that no other users are weighing in their opinions in tandem with ours. @Alastor15243 and @Emperor Hardin I'm sure could have some stuff to say (one of them I expect would be against Mystery while the other would be all for it).

[Whitfield1999]

22 minutes ago, Jotari said:

456 it seems. Bit more than double your ltc aim. Course that's on a blind run, if I were invested and cared about low turn counts I could probably do it in a lot less than that.

a bit more? That ltc aim is extremely lax and forgiving, you should be able to crush it if you really try. I've seen an ltc with no growths that does it in 102 turns. I'm sure with growths you can do some strats to do it under 100

22 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Nothing rubs me the wrong way, I just find it a valid crtisism that all the things you've mentioned end up becoming irrelevant when Merric gets 20 in every stat and can storm the battle field rendering all other advantages useless. I find Thracia (another game with growth manipulation) to be a much more qualified example of what you're talking about in how it renders it's combat (ie high stats and being able to kill things is not the most important thing in the world).

 

But you're ignore that getting 20 in every stat is time consuming and non condusive to playing good. not going to lie 456 turns a suuuuper long time for a relatively short game. and for what? a merric that can't even enemy phase more then 3 units, truly a good use of all that time and effort.

22 minutes ago, Jotari said:

And again I'd say Thracia does all that, except it forces me to do all that. In Mystery I can just wipe the floor with every unit using something with high stats. There's no motivation beyond a challenge run not to use star shards or to one turn something. And well, as far as challenge runs go, every other game in the series has similar things going for it in that record. Why in your opinion are challenge runs uniquely enjoyable in Old Mystery compared to other games?

I really don't consider beating the game in a timely matter a "challenge run". It's just beating the game at a decent pace. I said you should try under 200 turns cause you specifically seem to have a problem with feeling the need to grind up your characters which is just overkill and not needed at all. Also I don't think challenge runs are uniquely enjoyable in mystery, I never said that at all so I have no idea why you think that. I do love doing them because they are fun and make you think of interesting strategies.

22 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I don't really think it's all that off topic. The thread is "What are your thoughts on Mystery of the Emblem" and we are giving our thoughts on Mystery of the Emblem, just so happens that our thoughts conflict. Only real issue is that no other users are weighing in their opinions in tandem with ours. @Alastor15243 and @Emperor Hardin I'm sure could have some stuff to say (one of them I expect would be against Mystery while the other would be all for it).

Fair enough, I think it's on topic too. But as you said it is a little troubling that it's just the 2 of us talking. 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Whitfield1999

[Alastor15243]

@Jotari Alright, sure, why not? I'll put in my two cents!

My memory's fuzzy about Mystery of the Emblem. It's been more than a year since I've played it, and that was a year full of a loooooooot of thoughts about Fire Emblem. And what little I remember is almost entirely about Book 2, so I don't remember much about Book 1. However, I do vividly remember that Book 1 was really, really easy. Like, the only things that made Dark Dragon hard were the massive amounts of bad game design. Y'know, the hostility of the interface, decisions like making crit rates impossible to resist... Book 1 removed a lot of that, but didn't actually add in any genuine difficulty of its own. I barely remember anything about the thing, so... that should probably speak volumes for how much of an impact its gameplay had on me. Also the music sucks. They got rid of the player phase theme from FE1 and that was the only good song the original soundtrack had, so it's the only game in the series where I don't like a single song.

Book 2 I have more vivid memories of. I consider it a better time than Book 1, but I still consider the first three games to be the worst in the series without question. The devs just hadn't yet gotten a hang of what they were doing, and it shows all over, in interface, in map design, in balancing decisions, just everywhere. And of the three (four if you count the two FE3 books as separate), Gaiden is the only one I have any interest in ever going back to. Book 2 has some pretty atrocious map design decisions where it makes maps needlessly roundabout and plodding, and personally I just dislike star shards, or crusader scrolls, or BEXP rigging, or any system that rewards you with better stats for using your units in a way that isn't fun.

One of my biggest and most vivid complaints I remember about Book 2's map design is the enemy AI. There were way, way, way too many chapters where nearly all of the enemies on the map would refuse to move unless approached, and that made it absurdly easy to use the star shards to funnel exp into specific units to train them up with crazy growth rates. I had an absolutely insane Merric and Linde by the end of the game. I was, however, pleased by the game making sure that the endgame enemies were still hard even with universally-capped-stat units.

All in all, I consider the remake to be a superior game (even if I have my fair share of issues with that game too).

Edited January 10, 2021 by Alastor15243

[Whitfield1999]

2 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

Book 2 I have more vivid memories of. I consider it a better time than Book 1, but I still consider the first three games to be the worst in the series without question. The devs just hadn't yet gotten a hang of what they were doing, and it shows all over, in interface, in map design, in balancing decisions, just everywhere. And of the three (four if you count the two FE3 books as separate), Gaiden is the only one I have any interest in ever going back to. Book 2 has some pretty atrocious map design decisions where it makes maps needlessly roundabout and plodding, and personally I just dislike star shards, or crusader scrolls, or BEXP rigging, or any system that rewards you with better stats for using your units in a way that isn't fun.

 

Yea honestly, not even going to front book 2 is way better than book 1. book 1 is probably meant as a tutorial for players who are new to the series to be fair though. And I do agree that star shards enforce bad habbits and are just straight up not fun, for that reason I try not to use them.

Also because i'm curious, how do you feel about my arguments above about how star shards isn't a serious knock against the game because of how inconsequential it is and how you can get equal results without them?

 

[Alastor15243]

1 minute ago, Whitfield1999 said:

Also because i'm curious, how do you feel about my arguments above about how star shards isn't a serious knock against the game because of how inconsequential it is and how you can get equal results without them?

Wouldn't know. I only played it once and I abused the hell out of them on specific characters on that occasion. I do know that even with those high stats my ultra characters were struggling in the endgame though.

[Whitfield1999]

5 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Wouldn't know. I only played it once and I abused the hell out of them on specific characters on that occasion. I do know that even with those high stats my ultra characters were struggling in the endgame though.

ah dude you should replay it! I'm assuming it's been a while since you've played it right? they say people change every six months so if you replay it you might just love it this time!

I was the same way with a lot of other games in the series. When I was younger I wouldn't like specific games, but coming back to them I would get really into them and end up loving them. I think your frame of mind going into things is a huge factor when you end up liking stuff.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Whitfield1999
2nd paragraph

[Alastor15243]

23 minutes ago, Whitfield1999 said:

ah dude you should replay it! I'm assuming it's been a while since you've played it right? they say people change every six months so if you replay it you might just love it this time!

I was the same way with a lot of other games in the series. When I was younger I wouldn't like specific games, but coming back to them I would get really into them and end up loving them. I think your frame of mind going into things is a huge factor when you end up liking stuff.

I don't think that's gonna be likely. I did change my mind about Shadow Dragon (DS) pretty drastically from when I was a teenager, but that was after a massive shift in priorities for what I wanted out of a Fire Emblem game. Mystery of the Emblem just doesn't have that much to offer me in terms of what I want these days, and the interface is just barely at the point where the inconveniences bug the hell out of me.

[Whitfield1999]

8 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

I don't think that's gonna be likely. I did change my mind about Shadow Dragon (DS) pretty drastically from when I was a teenager, but that was after a massive shift in priorities for what I wanted out of a Fire Emblem game. Mystery of the Emblem just doesn't have that much to offer me in terms of what I want these days, and the interface is just barely at the point where the inconveniences bug the hell out of me.

yea I feel you. Stuff like needing to go into weapons and items separately instead of a just a singular trade button is hard to get used to if you aren't used to it.

If you are talking about the speed of the cursor, animations, and stuff like that. I used to hate that too but then I found out you can speed up the cursor and animations in the options. It feels sooo much better and faster if you do that.

sucks you didn't like it but you can't force people into liking things so I guess we just view it different and that's all that there is to say... I will continue to try to hard sell FE3 to people who haven't played it before though. It's the most uniquely fire emblemy fire emblem there is.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Whitfield1999

[Jotari]

11 hours ago, Whitfield1999 said:

a bit more? That ltc aim is extremely lax and forgiving, you should be able to crush it if you really try. I've seen an ltc with no growths that does it in 102 turns. I'm sure with growths you can do some strats to do it under 100

But you're ignore that getting 20 in every stat is time consuming and non condusive to playing good. not going to lie 456 turns a suuuuper long time for a relatively short game. and for what? a merric that can't even enemy phase more then 3 units, truly a good use of all that time and effort.

I really don't consider beating the game in a timely matter a "challenge run". It's just beating the game at a decent pace. I said you should try under 200 turns cause you specifically seem to have a problem with feeling the need to grind up your characters which is just overkill and not needed at all. Also I don't think challenge runs are uniquely enjoyable in mystery, I never said that at all so I have no idea why you think that. I do love doing them because they are fun and make you think of interesting strategies.

Fair enough, I think it's on topic too. But as you said it is a little troubling that it's just the 2 of us talking. 

I doubt my turn count is going to be much lower relatively speaking on my blind runs in any other game in the series.

11 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

@Jotari Alright, sure, why not? I'll put in my two cents!

My memory's fuzzy about Mystery of the Emblem. It's been more than a year since I've played it, and that was a year full of a loooooooot of thoughts about Fire Emblem. And what little I remember is almost entirely about Book 2, so I don't remember much about Book 1. However, I do vividly remember that Book 1 was really, really easy. Like, the only things that made Dark Dragon hard were the massive amounts of bad game design. Y'know, the hostility of the interface, decisions like making crit rates impossible to resist... Book 1 removed a lot of that, but didn't actually add in any genuine difficulty of its own. I barely remember anything about the thing, so... that should probably speak volumes for how much of an impact its gameplay had on me. Also the music sucks. They got rid of the player phase theme from FE1 and that was the only good song the original soundtrack had, so it's the only game in the series where I don't like a single song.

 

I'm pretty sure Lorenz can solo Michalis's chapter so long as you warp him up to deal with the thief (or are just willing to lose Falchion). He comes one point away from maxed defense. So even if you don't train him at all in the intervening chapter Michalis's forces just aren't up to snuff in dealing with him and a Starlight Gradivus.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Jotari