Special Heroes - Dark Desert Rituals

[Seazas]

3 hours ago, TheNiddo said:

Its a Harmonic Duo, can't be in the same game. And it needs to be a Harmonic Duo for a set of games they haven't made a pair for yet. 

And ultimately it's impossible for Kris to be a nobody. He was the first playable Avatar, that automatically makes him more important than like.... 99% of the the 600+ Fire Emblem characters that exist. Certainly more of a somebody than Lene which an even smaller part of the fanbase knows about. 

Kris being the first playable one ultimately doesn't matter when he's in one of the worst preforming games to ever exist that is Japan exclusive. A majority of fans don't even know who he is. If Robin pairing with Chrom doesn't work then pair him with an actual popular character than the nobody Kris.

Edited January 17, 2021 by Seazas

[redlight]

I'm just going to echo what PM1 said.

"A Solo or a rouse skill would have synergy with the solo condition of the weapon.

Gharnef, Conrad, Gangrel, and recent Nemesis also have Chill Atk already. Nemesis already having it at 4*.

Spd/Def 2 was locked to 5* Tana but at least now it's more available."

[Diovani Bressan]

I dont think they would give him a solo skill. Rouse makes more sense, since there is one on Ferdinand Von Aegir, although I would not expect Atk/Spd... Maybe Spd/Def again, like Feedinand's.

Kinda bothered by Chill Atk. I thought wlhe would not have that, because he is in the same map as Dorothea and she already have Chill Atk effect on her tome. It's 1 point weaker, but still.

I was expecting Def Smoke as well. Yeah, we have that already... But I already expected a repeated skill anyway, and honestly people her should expected that as well.

[Mercakete]

Hmm I wonder how these weapons will work against Fallen Ike. He makes penalties into bonuses on himself, so would these guys just double his buffs, or would they be applied separately and bring his stats down?

[Diovani Bressan]

Just now, Mercakete said:

Hmm I wonder how these weapons will work against Fallen Ike. He makes penalties into bonuses on himself, so would these guys just double his buffs, or would they be applied separately and bring his stats down?

Well... lets consider a situation here Fallen Ike has a visible Atk-7 from Chill Atk or Atk Smoke, and Plegian Katarina initiates against him.

Ike's Chaos Ragnell will grant him Atk+14 during combat, because it's the penalty on unit x 2. Meanwhile, Katarina's Fell Flambeau will inflict Atk-12 (-5 base, plus -7 from Ike being debuffed on Atk) on him during combat. In the end, Ike will get Atk+2 during combat since Katarina's tome will nullify 12 of these in-combat stats. So yeah, the Plegian weapons can cut Ike's in-combat buffs by a good amount.

This also apply to Unity skills.

[Mercakete]

14 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Well... lets consider a situation here Fallen Ike has a visible Atk-7 from Chill Atk or Atk Smoke, and Plegian Katarina initiates against him.

Ike's Chaos Ragnell will grant him Atk+14 during combat, because it's the penalty on unit x 2. Meanwhile, Katarina's Fell Flambeau will inflict Atk-12 (-5 base, plus -7 from Ike being debuffed on Atk) on him during combat. In the end, Ike will get Atk+2 during combat since Katarina's tome will nullify 12 of these in-combat stats. So yeah, the Plegian weapons can cut Ike's in-combat buffs by a good amount.

This also apply to Unity skills.

So, the penalty doubler applies in-combat after Chaos Ragnell has taken effect, then. Or does it debuff in-combat using flatter rates? Maybe I should take another look at the weapons' descriptions. I believe you, I just haven't absorbed the mechanics of how this all works for myself yet, so I'm trying to mentally digest all this.

[Kori]

If this was supposed to be a banner about Plegian characters, they wouldn't have advertised it as the characters carrying out their mission "in a foreign land". If anything, Tharja is the odd one out, here only as an excuse for the theme (and of course for fanservice).

Pairing Dorothea and Lene could have been quite interesting (they have some similarities to build on, I could believe the "these two have become friends while in Askr" that is supposed to be the justification for harmonics), but giving them that art just makes it very distateful to me, in part precisely because of their similar backgrounds.

[Othin]

9 hours ago, Sentinel07 said:

I agree.

For all my grievances on the seasonal choice, I don't have a problem with the actual units chosen. Personally, I think it would have been boring if they just choose all Plegians for it.

Kind of like how people just wanted the Ninja banner to just be full of characters who are....already ninjas. Not much creativity if you go that route.

In fairness, the pirates banner was mostly characters who were already pirates.

9 hours ago, Mercakete said:

So, I can never tell these things: Are any of those Grimleal torches (tomes) inheritable? If so, I feel somewhat obligated to give some to Robin/F!Morgan (M!Morgan already has a Grimleal tome: Grima's Truth.)

You can always identify inheritable weapons by looking for a "+" at the end of their name.

[Etrurian emperor]

What a weird banner. Just some random characters without rhyme or reason.

But one of those characters is Dorothea so I can't complain. On the other hand one of the characters is male Kris so I can't not complain either. 

[Diovani Bressan]

47 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

So, the penalty doubler applies in-combat after Chaos Ragnell has taken effect, then. Or does it debuff in-combat using flatter rates? Maybe I should take another look at the weapons' descriptions. I believe you, I just haven't absorbed the mechanics of how this all works for myself yet, so I'm trying to mentally digest all this.

Here, I created a scenario where Fallen Ike would fight a Plegian Katarina.

Fallen Ike was affected by Chill Atk and Chill Spd, so he has Atk/Spd-7. This is what we usually see when we attacked a Fallen Ike with Chaos Ragnell equipped (I removed all others skills).

You can see him having Atk/Spd+14 as in-combat buffs.

Now, I will recreate Plegian Katarina attacking Ike. For that, I am using Claude with Cunning Bowequipped. Just to remember, Cunning Bow inflict Atk/Spd/Def/Res-5 on target it foe has a total visible debuffs of -10 or more. Since Ike has Atk/Spd-7 from Chills, for a total of -14 visible debuffs, Cunning Bow will inflict -5 to all his stats, which will simulate Katarina's base -5 debuff.

Now, to simulate the extra -7 Katarina would get for attacking a debuffed foe, I used a Brave Claude with Atk/Spd Rein 2, that inflicts Atk/Spd-3 on foes within 2 spaces, and a Tharja with refined Tharja's Hex, that inflict Atk/Spd-4 on foes within 2 spaces. By placing these 2 unit within 2 spaces of Ike, he will get Atk/Spd-7 during combat, which would be what Katarina would get in a combat.

The result would be like the image below.

I hope this helped to understand how these weapons would work against Fallen Ike and foes with Unity skills.

[Flying Shogi]

We're getting Air Orders. Hopefully that's one step closer to Ground Orders.

[GrandeRampel]

Well looks, like I got it right. No Aversa or Kronya tho... I was stupid for hoping.

I'm overall happy with the banner. I feel that when they base a banner on something that is a thing in the games (dancers, pirates, a specific land) it's better to have just one character related to the theme, who explains stuff to the visitors. Ryoma explaining the hoshidan festival to Xander, Elincia and Micaiah, Tharja explaining Plegia to everyone else, Hana explaining the concept of ninjas to the others, having actual experienced dancers like Rinea paired with people who don't dance like Nephenee and so on.

If the pirate banner was 1 actual pirate and everyone else was as clueless as Veronica it would have been fine by me.

But seeing the complaints over this banner maybe it's better if they stick to one (like the Jugrdal dancers) or two games (like the very first seasonal) in order to prevent people from getting angry over the ONE character from the game they like not being someone they wanted.

Anyway, very happy for Katarina and M!Kris getting an alt (and this also means F!Kris is coming sooner or later) and for Raphael getting in the game.

Tharja of course makes me happy by virtue of not being red AND we finally have Tharja emblem. Dorothea & Lene are a weird choice for an Harmonic, but I dig it. Never expected Lene to ever get an alt, so I wouldn't complain about her being the cheerleader.

It is funny that Dorothea is the first character ever to get two alts without a base version being in the game (Veronica's base version IS in the game. We just can't use it). I would think that's not going to last, but I also thought we would have gotten base Charlotte by now, so... Dorothea trapped in alt jail forever confirmed???

 

Tharja is my top priority and I have enough orbs to reasonably get her. If I get her quickly I will try for the other characters, since I like everyone here.

 

[Mercakete]

@Diovani Bressan

Thanks for the breakdown! I think I understand it a bit better now, and the rest will sink in with time. ^_^

@GrandeRampel

I'm sorry for accidentally getting your hopes up. 😞 I didn't intend for that to happen with my speculation at all.

[GrandeRampel]

1 minute ago, Mercakete said:

@Diovani Bressan

Thanks for the breakdown! I think I understand it a bit better now, and the rest will sink in with time. ^_^

@GrandeRampel

I'm sorry for accidentally getting your hopes up. 😞 I didn't intend for that to happen with my speculation at all.

Don't worry. It's not like it's a big deal or anything. I still have the base versions to use which is what's important. I would trade an alt for Aversa/Kronya with another one of my faves getting in the game in a heartbeat (unless it's specifically Monica!Kronya).

[EricaofRenais]

Wow I am in shock I was right about it being Raphael on the right of the silhouette.  Anyway I will be trying for the harmonic since RB has become the one event I try to score highly in.  Red hell please be kind.  I am happy about Chris being an axe cav since I have been wanting another one to build up.

[Yexin]

eeeeh nope, not a fan of this banner, at all
don't like its outfits, don't like its units, don't like Dorothea getting a second alt before her normal version was added to the game, so yeah, hard pass

only things i like about it are those nice free orbs and the TT banner with Lene

[DefyingFates]

14 hours ago, Flying Shogi said:

Katarina is a must pull. It's been nice knowing you my orbs.

Can someone explain how they're getting -19? Assuming -7 to Atk, I get the -7(Atk debuff) + -5(weapon) but where's the other -7 coming from? 

The weapons double the debuff already on a unit. For example, someone with -7 Atk already would suffer: -7 Atk (the original debuff) - 7 Atk (the debuff doubler effect) - 5 Atk (the guaranteed debuff) = -19 Atk).

As for the banner: Tharja is wasted here considering she's just wearing a fancier version of her normal attire and I'm confused at Dorothea getting two "alts" before a permanent option when there are other 3H characters who still have neither. I thought she wasn't very popular in Japan?

Also:

14 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Plus, oh my gosh the steriotypes. It's like they're saying ALL Plegians are Grimleal with that whole "these are Plegian clothes!" with Grima's symbol everywhere. Wow. I'm kind of speechless.

Honoring Grima is messed up enough, but it mandating everyone dress up as Plegians is...weird.

[Etrurian emperor]

57 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

As for the banner: Tharja is wasted here considering she's just wearing a fancier version of her normal attire and I'm confused at Dorothea getting two "alts" before a permanent option when there are other 3H characters who still have neither. I thought she wasn't very popular in Japan?

Yeah but at some point the devs must conclude that the fans are collectively all wrong, and that Dorothea is great and deserves only the best. 

[SSbardock84]

Best Tharja alt yet. 500 orbs, I'm in good order.

[DefyingFates]

49 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Yeah but at some point the devs must conclude that the fans are collectively all wrong, and that Dorothea is great and deserves only the best. 

Oh, don't get me wrong: I really like Dorothea too! I was just surprised since companies seem to prioritize the likes/ dislikes of their home country before any others and she's more popular in the West, IIRC.

[Interdimensional Observer]

2 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Honoring Grima is messed up enough, but it mandating everyone dress up as Plegians is...weird.

No it isn't. Some ancient Egyptian priestesses believed that to make the kingdom's lifeblood, the Nile River (Iteru as they called it), flood and thus fertilize the floodplain soil, it was necessary to appeal to Amun (or the god Min, although they came to be treated as Min-Amun, a single deity), the chief god who oversaw the Nile. This appeal included making Amun flood out his fertility. Which meant trying to make him... I'll leave you to fill in the blanks.😉

 

On the theme of the banner itself. Perhaps a good approach to these theme would've been to stick mostly to characters who aren't dark mages, but who would have some interest or connection to darkness? -Although, defining that might be difficult in itself, given most FE characters don't associate with dark practitioners. The one alright example I could think of would be Arvis, except we know he'd hate to don the black robes, barring a some niche celebration of Maira the Good Loptian. Oh, and Eirika tried this idea years ago.

Edited January 17, 2021 by Interdimensional Observer

[Florete]

11 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Hmm I wonder how these weapons will work against Fallen Ike. He makes penalties into bonuses on himself, so would these guys just double his buffs, or would they be applied separately and bring his stats down?

They don't have any special interaction. Chaos Ragnell doesn't technically make penalties into bonuses, it (and Unity skills) gives a combat bonus equal to the visible debuff amount x2. So if fallen Ike has -7 visible atk, Chaos Ragnell gives him +14 atk in combat (net +7), but the -7 visible atk still exists, and since that debuff still exists, the plegian weapons will double that in combat.

Another way of looking at it: both of them work off the visible debuff, but don't actually change the visible debuff at all. -7 atk = Chaos Ragnell gives +14 atk. Additionally, -7 atk = Plegian weapon inflicts -12 (7 from doubling the debuff, 5 from the weapon normally). Net result: -5. In the end they basically cancel each other out and all that's left is the -5 the Plegian weapon gives by itself.

[Flying Shogi]

47 minutes ago, Florete said:

They don't have any special interaction. Chaos Ragnell doesn't technically make penalties into bonuses, it (and Unity skills) gives a combat bonus equal to the visible debuff amount x2. So if fallen Ike has -7 visible atk, Chaos Ragnell gives him +14 atk in combat (net +7), but the -7 visible atk still exists, and since that debuff still exists, the plegian weapons will double that in combat.

Another way of looking at it: both of them work off the visible debuff, but don't actually change the visible debuff at all. -7 atk = Chaos Ragnell gives +14 atk. Additionally, -7 atk = Plegian weapon inflicts -12 (7 from doubling the debuff, 5 from the weapon normally). Net result: -5. In the end they basically cancel each other out and all that's left is the -5 the Plegian weapon gives by itself.

This needs to be pinned

[DefyingFates]

3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

No it isn't. Some ancient Egyptian priestesses believed that to make the kingdom's lifeblood, the Nile River (Iteru as they called it), flood and thus fertilize the floodplain soil, it was necessary to appeal to Amun (or the god Min, although they came to be treated as Min-Amun, a single deity), the chief god who oversaw the Nile. This appeal included making Amun flood out his fertility. Which meant trying to make him... I'll leave you to fill in the blanks.

I should be clearer: worshipping someone purely for the sake of them destroying the world, then saying everyone who does that comes from a certain demographic is what I (and I assume Mercakete) meant. Don't worry, I know ancientt beliefs could get pretty...weird to outside observers (much like modern faiths actually, now that I think about it).

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, DefyingFates said:

Don't worry, I know ancientt beliefs could get pretty...weird to outside observers (much like modern faiths actually, now that I think about it).

Partly, I was making a joke based on a historical religious factoid. The Plegian-Grimleal attire, is because Grima is horny, or at least the Grimleal thought Grima was (imagine the reaction if it turned out Grima a major prude all along and saw the sea of thinly veiled devotees before them).😛

 

1 hour ago, DefyingFates said:

I should be clearer: worshipping someone purely for the sake of them destroying the world, then saying everyone who does that comes from a certain demographic is what I (and I assume Mercakete) meant.

Thank you for the clarification.

Although associating religions with ethnicities/nationalities isn't entirely baseless. One shouldn't instantly assume X Ethnicity = A Religion, thats judgmental. But historically, not all religions have been "inclusive" and expansionist like Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism. Countless smaller (or big in the case of Hinduism), more local religions have existed that may or may not be/have been intentionally "exclusivist", and for whatever reason, didn't place much if any effort into proselytization. The result being that a particular faith = a rather high likelihood, though by no means a certainty, of being of a particular ethnicity/nationality.

Not like we know whether the Grimlealean scriptures have an expansionist, exclusivist, or another kind of bend. Nor have we information on the demographic breakdown of the Grimleal's flock across the two continents of Awakening. Validar most likely keeps that intel classified save for the most diehard believers working directly under him, and would kill you if you tried taking a peek.😈

Oh, and if you're referring to dress code. It is possible for religious adaptation to mean the devotee has to make fashion adaptations. All Sikhs abide by unshorn hair, the carrying of a small dagger, a comb, a bracelet, and wearing special underwear. Sometimes you get flexibility, Islam asks women to dress modestly, but how that is defined is ultimately left (or should be left) to every woman to decide for herself. And sometimes, the garb is purely ceremonial, or the language is ceremonial. All Muslims "wear" Arabic during their prayers, even if it's totally alien to the language they use on a daily basis. Perhaps you could make your own interpretation and spin "Plegian" attire as ceremonial (although whose idea was it to get everyone here to join the Grimleal then!?!).

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Interdimensional Observer