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Choose Your Legends Round 5 Official Discussion Thread!

Who are you voting for this CYL?  

138 members have voted

  1. 1. Who are you voting for this CYL?



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@eclipse

I could put it into Written Works, but I don't really feel it deserves it's own thread. But sure. As for making it a series, I don't know if I have the time/energy/inspiration for that, but I'm flattered you like it enough to want more. 🙂 I'm not sure how I would even continue this; it's kind of its own standalone. (Sorry if I'm having trouble identifying how much of what you said is serious and how much is in good fun; I just want to respect your authority here. XD; )

 

1 hour ago, Jave said:

I mean, while I can understand to a point the "2020 was an awful year" argument (Believe me, 2020 was easily the worst year of my life, to the point I was at the verge of a panic attack), I really don't think it can be used as an excuse for what's going on here. Most of the people badly reacting to this are the same suspects from previous years. I'm sure I could pull up some CYL threads from previous years and the reactions wouldn't be that different.

As much as I love FEH as a game, CYL as a concept, and several unpopular characters (Tharja, Camilla, gatekeeper, etc.), I hate how they've brought out the worst in this fandom.

It doesn't excuse it, but it does perhaps help explain it a little.

As for that last bit, I wouldn't blame CYL for the poor reactions of people. I blame the people for the poor reactions of people. All that bad was already inside of them, and they would have found a way to let it out regardless of any other stimulus. People just need to stop feeling so entitled and gain a combination of consideration for others and humility for themselves. That would go a long way in preventing this kind of grown-up temper tantrums.

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3 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

@eclipse

I could put it into Written Works, but I don't really feel it deserves it's own thread. But sure. As for making it a series, I don't know if I have the time/energy/inspiration for that, but I'm flattered you like it enough to want more. 🙂 I'm not sure how I would even continue this; it's kind of its own standalone. (Sorry if I'm having trouble identifying how much of what you said is serious and how much is in good fun; I just want to respect your authority here. XD; )

Somewhat of a joke, but some ideas may come once the final results are announced.  Keep an open mind~!

@Deirdre an Bhróin and right after I expressed my disappointment at the general reaction to the midterm results you had to post that.  Thank you for proving my point.  Perhaps popularity contests aren't for you.  The characters I really want probably won't make it in (hell, one of my favorites couldn't even make it into Cipher).  Yet I've somehow found it in me to accept that weird things will happen with popularity polls, and as a result, I don't take them seriously enough to write an essay on why I think character X does/doesn't deserve to make it in.  in other words, if you're going to write shit like that again, at least make sure that the mod didn't make her feelings about whining clear a few posts ago.

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1 hour ago, Midnox said:

I made the mistake of giving my first vote yesterday before finding out we already got the mid term results and wasted it in Rhea. Gatey Gatey, you got my votey 😉

hey, that's not a wasted vote

in fact, i thank you for that

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24 minutes ago, eclipse said:

Somewhat of a joke, but some ideas may come once the final results are announced.  Keep an open mind~!

Heh, that's true. I can agree with confidence to at least that much. Sure; if I think of more, I'll put it (and the previous script) in Written Works and ping you there so you can have a read. Sound good to you?

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5 hours ago, Baldrick said:

Even if he wasn't popular, he is a Fire Emblem character, and so deserves one version in Fire Emblem Heroes. He even has some personality to work off of. I'm kind of concerned at the attitude that he and Veronica aren't "actual characters", that has some elitist implications.

It may be tough on Chrom fans, but there's nothing wrong with the five versions you already have to play with.

That's fair, reading back at it I might've gone to a bit of an extreme with my statement/comparison, but rest assured, I'm as far away from elitism as humanly possible I haven't even finished any game from before FE7 so I can't be an elitist, right? /s

What I really meant by that, is people had no problem with Veronica winning - and yes, I'm quite aware it's because she is a girl...

Spoiler

and I'm pretty sure she is an underage as well, so have a good life everyone

The thing is, I'm a sucker for a good story and fleshed out characters with complex personalities and emotional developement. Neither Veronica nor Gatekeeper is any of these. They are just vibing in the universe. But while I think this is perfectly fine for an NPC, I find it quite sad in the case of Veronica, since she is supposed to be a main character. I really-really wish Heroes OCs were more than just one character trope.

In a way I think Veronica winning - while being so one-dimensional - means that being fleshed out or being an actually well written character with complex motives has nothing to do with CYL.That's what I kind of wanted to imply when I said "actual characters". Sure, they are characters, but nowhere near as complex as some others, and the only real difference between them is that Veronica was well received.

If a character is popular, they "deserve" (I started to hate using this word after seeing it thrown around everywhere lately lol) the Brave alt. I liked the Gatekeeper memes. I also find it quite funny how he is winning, and seeing the people's reaction I actually want him to win now. Michalis doesn't stand a chance anyway, nor does Leon, and Ephraim is already in, so might as well root for him now, but I don't think I'll vote for him.

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24 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

Heh, that's true. I can agree with confidence to at least that much. Sure; if I think of more, I'll put it (and the previous script) in Written Works and ping you there so you can have a read. Sound good to you?

Sure~!

2 minutes ago, coldhand25 said:

If a character is popular, they "deserve" (I started to hate using this word after seeing it thrown around everywhere lately lol) the Brave alt. I liked the Gatekeeper memes. I also find it quite funny how he is winning, and seeing the people's reaction I actually want him to win now. Michalis doesn't stand a chance anyway, nor does Leon, and Ephraim is already in, so might as well root for him now, but I don't think I'll vote for him.

. . .and this is perfectly fair.  I'd love a brave alt for Leon, too!

So here's hoping that your characters get a shot five years down the line.  And if Leon gets traction, I'll throw my votes behind him, too!

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1 hour ago, coldhand25 said:

That's fair, reading back at it I might've gone to a bit of an extreme with my statement/comparison, but rest assured, I'm as far away from elitism as humanly possible I haven't even finished any game from before FE7 so I can't be an elitist, right? /s

Oh yeah, that was aimed at the general tone of the thread, not you specifically. I just decided to pick on your post. :Sara:

 

Quote

The thing is, I'm a sucker for a good story and fleshed out characters with complex personalities and emotional developement. Neither Veronica nor Gatekeeper is any of these. They are just vibing in the universe. But while I think this is perfectly fine for an NPC, I find it quite sad in the case of Veronica, since she is supposed to be a main character. I really-really wish Heroes OCs were more than just one character trope.

In a way I think Veronica winning - while being so one-dimensional - means that being fleshed out or being an actually well written character with complex motives has nothing to do with CYL.That's what I kind of wanted to imply when I said "actual characters". Sure, they are characters, but nowhere near as complex as some others, and the only real difference between them is that Veronica was well received.

Much as I'd like to believe that the other CYL winners won because they were well written, it doesn't seem that way to me. 13 of the 16 winners so far have been lords, and the other lords are consistently around the top 20. There's also a strong trend towards recency bias and quirky/meme characters; the key to getting a lot of votes is not being well written, but being memorable or a main character. Veronica and the Gatekeeper aren't anomalies in that sense.

What makes a character well written is just too subjective to make an impact compared to other factors.

 

Quote

If a character is popular, they "deserve" (I started to hate using this word after seeing it thrown around everywhere lately lol) the Brave alt.

It's true that the more popular a character is, the more they will sell and so it makes sense for them to get more versions. But popular characters will likely get lots of versions on the banner lineups that IS decides; CYL is the only banner lineup not decided by IS, so I see it as an opportunity to use a different method of picking characters.

Edited by Baldrick

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3 hours ago, eclipse said:

Somewhat of a joke, but some ideas may come once the final results are announced.  Keep an open mind~!

@Deirdre an Bhróin and right after I expressed my disappointment at the general reaction to the midterm results you had to post that.  Thank you for proving my point.  Perhaps popularity contests aren't for you.  The characters I really want probably won't make it in (hell, one of my favorites couldn't even make it into Cipher).  Yet I've somehow found it in me to accept that weird things will happen with popularity polls, and as a result, I don't take them seriously enough to write an essay on why I think character X does/doesn't deserve to make it in.  in other words, if you're going to write shit like that again, at least make sure that the mod didn't make her feelings about whining clear a few posts ago.

IMO it's easy being a Jugdral fan. Already know none of your favs stand a chance. Today's vote in particular from me is going to my man August who's finally in the lists. Merlinus and Soren can suck it, August is the best advisor character in the series. Tomorrow I think I'm going to vote for Brian because he's my preferred Helswath user and a very interesting character for such a minor role. He's also one of the characters probably most likely to actually hit last place.

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I have no problem with Gatekeepr always they add an story or at least something when he comes to FEH.

I mean, I hope he says something else than "Greetings Summoner, Nothing to report".

Im pretty sure he has a name, why cant we know it? He has family I guess, inspirations, desires, things he likes and things he hates. I hope they work on his personality so I can finally empathize with him...

Edited by Aethernal LUX

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2 hours ago, Baldrick said:

Much as I'd like to believe that the other CYL winners won because they were well written, it doesn't seem that way to me. 13 of the 16 winners so far have been lords, and the other lords are consistently around the top 20. There's also a strong trend towards recency bias and quirky/meme characters; the key to getting a lot of votes is not being well written, but being memorable or a main character. Veronica and the Gatekeeper aren't anomalies in that sense.

What makes a character well written is just too subjective to make an impact compared to other factors.

I would argue that lords are usually the most fleshed out characters, so I don't really find these results surprising at all. There are exceptions though,  one such being Sacred Stones, where I would say that Lyon is a more complex character than Ephraim and Eirika combined, but it's the minority in my opinion. Recency bias on the other hand, I agree with. Just look at last year's results - and by that I don't mean the house leaders, but Lysithea. I don't think she would've been able to reach 2nd spot if 3H wouldn't have been the new game at that time. And I'm quite sure if we get a remake/new game this year, Chrom won't be able to assure his victory next CYL either. I'm pretty sure the 4 winners are going to be characters from that game. Just like last year.

 

2 hours ago, Baldrick said:

It's true that the more popular a character is, the more they will sell and so it makes sense for them to get more versions. But popular characters will likely get lots of versions on the banner lineups that IS decides; CYL is the only banner lineup not decided by IS, so I see it as an opportunity to use a different method of picking characters.

And while I agree with this, people are going to vote for characters that they like. And - by my understanding - the character that's liked by a lot is popular. Yes, it could be an opportunity for less popular characters, but I don't see how people would give up voting for the characters they like, to vote for characters that otherwise wouldn't get an alt/get into the game. For example, I'm not going to vote for Erk, not because I don't want him in the game, but because there are characters who I like way more than him. Like Eirika, Michalis etc. I'd rather get a Brave Eirika (on top of her already existing alts) then get Erk into the game.

To be honest, I don't really know how this should be solved on IS's part. Maybe really making a CYL and a "Popular Character not yet in FEH" vote could possibly solve this? But then they would have to exclude planned characters from the voting (as they start working on a character 6 months before relelase, if memory serves), and that would be massive spoiler. I really don't know.

Edited by coldhand25

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2 minutes ago, coldhand25 said:

And while I agree with this, people are going to vote for characters that they like. And - by my understanding - the character that's liked by a lot is popular. Yes, it could be an opportunity for less popular characters, but I don't see how people would give up voting for the characters they like, to vote for characters that otherwise wouldn't get an alt/get into the game. For example, I'm not going to vote for Erk, not because I don't want him in the game, but because there are characters who I like way more than him. Like Eirika, Michalis etc. I'd rather get a Brave Eirika (on top of her already existing alts) then get Erk into the game.

If you feel that way, that's fair enough. It's not reasonable for me to ask everyone to vote the way I'd like them to. I can add that to my list of demands once my COVID-Blood Pact is completed.

2 minutes ago, coldhand25 said:

To be honest, I don't really know how this should be solved on IS's part. Maybe really making a CYL and a "Popular Character not yet in FEH" vote could possibly solve this? But then they would have to exclude planned characters from the voting (as they start working on a character 6 months before relelase, if memory serves), and that would be massive spoiler. I really don't know.

Farfetched Heroes was the designated "Popular Character not yet in FEH" banner, and that seems to be discontinued. It's obviously too late now, but the way to solve it would have been to make Farfetched the CYL banner and do something else for Ike/Roy/Lyn/Lucina. It'd be an indication that you can vote for whoever you like, but characters already in won't get an alt out of it (unless they're Owain).

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42 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Brigand Boss makes a surprisingly good case as to why we should vote for him. 

 

 

Wait is that who the Brigand Boss is? The one who kidnapped Silque? He comes across as so minor I just kind of wrote him off as generic enemy without placing where he is in the story. That's actually not that minor a role, being the boss of the first dungeon and all. Easily just as important as any of the random bandit characters who serve as the first boss in the various games. They really should have just given him a name in Shadows of Valentia 😕 (Or just give him Shizaru's name so we don't feel like there's a boss missing). The first Cantor Celica encounters likewise I think could have easily been given a name what with their being a cutscene introducing him and him in general being a noteworthy introduction of a new concept of enemy in the game. And while I'm listing "namless bosses who deserve names" I might as well mention that one enemy soldier in the Shadow Dragon prologue who actually gets quite a bit of screen time devoted to his plan to use Gordin as bait to capture Marth yet goes unnamed.

Edited by Jotari

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14 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Wait is that who the Brigand Boss is? The one who kidnapped Silque? He comes across as so minor I just kind of wrote him off as generic enemy without placing where he is in the story. That's actually not that minor a role, being the boss of the first dungeon and all. Easily just as important as any of the random bandit characters who serve as the first boss in the various games. They really should have just given him a name in Shadows of Valentia 😕 (Or just give him Shizaru's name so we don't feel like there's a boss missing). The first Cantor Celica encounters likewise I think could have easily been given a name what with their being a cutscene introducing him and him in general being a noteworthy introduction of a new concept of enemy in the game. And while I'm listing "namless bosses who deserve names" I might as well mention that one enemy soldier in the Shadow Dragon prologue who actually gets quite a bit of screen time devoted to his plan to use Gordin as bait to capture Marth yet goes unnamed.

I believe we are forced to go to the Thieves’ Shrine in Echoes, but in Gaiden that place is optional. So in Gaiden, you can even beat the game and never encounter him.

But yeah. I have no idea why Brigand Boss doesn't have a name, while most of the others generic bosses have one.

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3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Brigand Boss makes a surprisingly good case as to why we should vote for him. 

 

95hrh2vqlsc61.png

Have to say, I am insanely impressed with this sprite work. Even the Mila statue in the background is perfect. Nice little extra attention to detail, blending it into the familiar scene when that was actually completely optional, and the control over how in-focus different layers of the scene are, not to mention lighting control... Very nice. All that said, Silque's bonds here are a bit heavy on the lineart, which is a little jarring. Other than that, it's so perfect that how gravity-defying Silque's hair and headpiece are stand out humorously.

@eclipse

Alright, then. It's a deal. 🙂

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8 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Heh, that's true. I can agree with confidence to at least that much. Sure; if I think of more, I'll put it (and the previous script) in Written Works and ping you there so you can have a read. Sound good to you?

This gets my vote too, it's really sweet!

4 hours ago, Aethernal LUX said:

I have no problem with Gatekeepr always they add an story or at least something when he comes to FEH.

I mean, I hope he says something else than "Greetings Summoner, Nothing to report".

Im pretty sure he has a name, why cant we know it? He has family I guess, inspirations, desires, things he likes and things he hates. I hope they work on his personality so I can finally empathize with him...

Alternatively, I hope we get a joke about his lack of a name instead (since at this point he's confirmed for at least a GHB even if Chrom dethrones him). Maybe he'd be about to give us his name, then gets distracted by a kitten or something?

Also, every CYL up to this point has been leaked in the site's CSS code, right? How exactly does that happen, and does anyone remember how many days it takes to happen too? I think last year it was Jan 31st or Feb 1st?

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4 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

This gets my vote too, it's really sweet!

Aww, thanks. 🙂 I'm working on a thread in Written Works right now. I didn't think that this little sketch deserved its own thread, so I decided to make it a compellation thread of various things I've written in the FEH forums over the years. Want me to ping you when it's up?

Quote

Maybe he'd be about to give us his name, then gets distracted by a kitten or something?

Oh my gosh that's adorable. Reminds me a little bit of Natasha and Cormag's conversations and Stahl and Tharja's conversations (I think it was Tharja anyway. Been a while since I've read those.)

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5 hours ago, Aethernal LUX said:

I have no problem with Gatekeepr always they add an story or at least something when he comes to FEH.

I mean, I hope he says something else than "Greetings Summoner, Nothing to report".

Im pretty sure he has a name, why cant we know it? He has family I guess, inspirations, desires, things he likes and things he hates. I hope they work on his personality so I can finally empathize with him...

 It sure what they can do with him, but that’s why I’m voting for him just to find out. Really, he’s a crazy choice. He must be the first unexpected character with good odds for winning after Veronica way back in CYL2

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6 hours ago, Jotari said:

IMO it's easy being a Jugdral fan. Already know none of your favs stand a chance. Today's vote in particular from me is going to my man August who's finally in the lists. Merlinus and Soren can suck it, August is the best advisor character in the series. Tomorrow I think I'm going to vote for Brian because he's my preferred Helswath user and a very interesting character for such a minor role. He's also one of the characters probably most likely to actually hit last place.

Unless August constantly tells his lord to be careful after his lord explains his logic, he's already beaten Merlinus.

That being said, Archanea is suffering - the roster is huge, there's more than one Tomas, AND we're not due for another remake.  FE4/5 have a shot in hell of that, at least!

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17 minutes ago, Deirdre an Bhróin said:

(completely misses the point)

You're free to say what you want, within the rules.  Notice how you didn't get a warning on top of everything?  That means that it was within the rules (or I'm lazy, but for once, that wasn't the case).  I'm free to call you out on what you say.  That's a natural consequence of speech.  Which means if you don't like it when other people tell you that maybe you're being utterly immature about your views of a popularity contest, then perhaps you should keep your thoughts to yourself.

Oh, and read what other people say first.  It's the equivalent of listening.

Edited by eclipse

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1 minute ago, Deirdre an Bhróin said:

I figured since I didn’t get a suspension, that was the case lol.
All across SNS, CYL is removing accounts back n forth, for good reasons at that, too.
Don’t get lazy with modding now of all times, since a lot of people across all SNS are getting death threats the anime polls lol. 

What about my views in immature?
 I don’t dislike discussion on my views, rather I encourage it, since that’s what discussion are for. It works both ways. If your not willing to discuss, why post? Essentially, “keep your thoughts to yourself.” We’re on the same page at that. I think you misinterpret my original  post and my reply. So much for my essays being thorough bruh. 

I did read through the thread, but the last page (at the time I posted), I didn’t read. If I wasn’t interested in what people I had to say, I just wouldn’t be here at all. 

I don’t disagree with what your saying, so I’m still missing the point it seems 100%.

Going back and reading your post/the page. I still don’t see the problem. 
What’s the point here? 

Being salty enough about what's essentially a video game popularity contest to write two literal essays about it says a lot more than you realize.  Your unwillingness to read backwards also says a lot.  The question is whether or not either of those observations are appropriate in a CYL thread, since they are tangentially related at best - and now that someone has brought them to your attention, what you will do with that information.  That, too, will say far more than another wall of text.

The loudest statements aren't words.

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