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Lord_Brand

If you could have any number of third-party fighters in Smash...

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Let's say you're approached by Sakurai and told you get to put any number of third-party fighters you want in Super Smash Bros. 6. The one catch is that they have to be video game-original characters from video game-original series. Who all would you put into Smash? I'm gonna go nuts with my selection, and I invite you all to do the same with yours, since it's all in the name of fun. For ease of browsing, I'll be sorting by company and series.

Spoiler
  • Capcom
    • Mega Man
      • Mega Man
      • Roll
      • Proto Man
      • Bass
      • Duo
      • Dr. Wily & Robot Masters
    • Mega Man X
      • X
      • Zero
      • Vile
      • Sigma
      • Alia
      • Axl
      • Layer
      • Palette
    • Mega Man Legends
      • Mega Man Volnutt
      • Tron Bonne
    • Mega Man Battle Network
      • MegaMan.EXE
      • Roll.EXE
      • GutsMan.EXE
      • ProtoMan.EXE
      • Bass.EXE
  • Konami
    • Castlevania
      • Simon Belmont
      • Trevor Belmont & Sypha Belnades
      • Alucard
      • Richter Belmont
      • Maria Renard
      • Soma Cruz
      • Jonathan Morris & Charlotte Aulin
      • Shanoa
    • Contra
      • Bill Rizer
    • Mystical Ninja
      • Goemon
      • Ebisumaru
      • Sasuke
      • Yae
  • SEGA
    • Sonic the Hedgehog
      • Team Sonic (Sonic, Tails, Knuckles)
      • Dr. Eggman
      • Team Rose (Amy, Cream, Big)
      • Metal Sonic
      • Honey the Cat
      • Team Dark (Shadow, Rouge, Omega)
      • Blaze the Cat
  • Square Enix
    • Final Fantasy
      • Warriors of Light (Warrior, Black Mage, White Mage, Red Mage)
      • Thief
      • Ninja
      • Monk
      • Garland
      • Chocobo & Moogle
      • Cecil Harvey
      • Rosa Farrell
      • Kain Highwind
      • Bartz Klauser
      • Gilgamesh
      • Terra Branford
      • Edgar Figaro
      • Cloud Strife
      • Tifa Lockhart
      • Sephiroth
      • Crystal Caravanners (Clavat, Selkie, Lilty, Yuke)
    • World of Mana
      • Hero of Mana
      • Dark Lord
      • Randi, Primm, & Popoi
      • Thanatos
      • Duran & Angela
      • Hawkeye & Riesz
      • Kevin & Charlotte
      • Crimson Wizard
      • Belladonna
      • Goremand
    • Chrono Trigger
      • Crono, Lucca, & Marle
      • Frog
      • Robo
      • Ayla
      • Magus
    • Dragon Quest
      • Hero
    • Octopath Traveler
      • Ophelia & Primrose
      • Cyrus & Alfyn
      • Tressa & Therion
      • Olberic & Haanit
  • Ubisoft
    • Rayman
      • Rayman
      • Barbara (with her sisters as alternate skins)
  • Activision
    • Crash Bandicoot
      • Crash Bandicoot
      • Dr. Cortex
      • N. Brio
      • Tawna Bandicoot
      • Cortex Commandos (Ripper Roo, Koala Kong, Pinstripe Potoroo)
      • Coco Bandicoot
      • N. Gin
      • Tiny Tiger
      • Dingodile
      • N. Tropy
      • Crunch Bandicoot
      • Nina Cortex
    • Spyro the Dragon
      • Spyro the Dragon
      • Gnasty Gnorc
      • Hunter the Cheetah
      • Ripto
      • Bianca
      • Sheila
      • Sgt. Byrd
      • Bentley
      • Agent 9
      • The Sorceress
      • Cynder
  • WayForward
    • Shantae
      • Shantae
      • Risky Boots
  • Playtonic
    • Yooka-Laylee
      • Yooka & Laylee
  • Microsoft
    • Banjo-Kazooie
      • Banjo-Kazooie
    • Minecraft
      • Steve & Alex

The reason I would put in so many given the opportunity is because Sakurai himself has described Smash as a "celebration of video gaming". Third parties have played just as much of a role in the development of the video game industry as first parties, so it only feels fair to give them a larger volume of representation in Smash. There are plenty of first parties I'd add too, but that's outside the theme of this topic.

Edited by Lord_Brand

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Oh, I have some, although not as much as you:

Spoiler

Rayman (Rayman 2): The man himself, the game I grew up playing, the game I keep replaying every year, the game that always cheers me up, the game that... I guess I made it clear how much this game - and this character - means to me. I know he is one of the most popular requests, but he is 100% my number 1 character. And not just my number 1 "want" in Smash, but my number 1 character in gaming.

Kain (Legacy of Kain series): You know, vampire but actually cool. I got into Legacy of Kain rather late (only after the first closed beta release of the game Nosgoth did I learn about this masterpiece of storytelling), and yet it became one of my favourite game series. Sure, it has it's own problems, but which game is perfect, amirite? The only one character I like more than him from the same series is Raziel, who is definitely my other most wanted character from LoK. Raziel is.... so imagine something that's pretty awesome, than take it and turn it into a vengeful demon, and give him an awesome back-story, flesh out his character through perfect voice-acting, and voilá: Raziel!

Faith (Mirror's Edge): I've replayed the original Mirror's Edge countless of times (maybe even more than Rayman 2!), and while it can only take second place behind my most favourite video game ever, it stands there strong, unmovable. Parkour has always been something I enjoyed doing (though never really "professionally"), and Mirror's Edge is just such an awesome game. The visuals, the characters, the music - THE MUSIC! I will never have the feeling of sitting down to play it for the first time ever, but I can tell you, no game since then had made me feel the same. And Faith, well, she IS the coolest female MC in gaming. To me, at least. Sorry Lara Croft. BUT, I'd prefer her design from Mirror's Edge Catalyst. I think it just looks better. The vest, the pockets. Anyways, just make sure her tattoos are visible. That's very important.

Garrett (Thief series): I played Thief 3 for the first time after I saw the reveal trailer for Thief 2014. Than I haven't played any Thief until September, 2015. In September, 2015, I saw a magazine in a store, which had Thief 2014 bundled with as a gift. I bought it. I played Thief 2014. Then I played Thief 2014. Then I played Thief 2014 again. Then I played Thief Gold, then Thief 2, then Thief 3. Garrett will always be my favourite anti-hero protagonist. I'm sad he is hiding since 2014, but hey, he IS pretty good at it after all. And every time he shows himself to others, you can bet he will do something AWESOME. So yeah, here's for hoping.

 

They are my top 5 most wanted, not necessarily in order. Others who I'd like to see, but don't want to write a whole essay about are (bold is higher on the want list, than regular):

  • Crash
  • Spyro
  • Lara Croft
  • Kain Highwind
  • Cecil Harvey
  • Terra Branford
  • Celes Chere
  • Rinoa Heartilly
  • Ashelia B'nargin Dalmasca
  • Lightning (Claire Farron)
  • Globox
  • Teensies
  • and some others who I probably missed.

There is just simply too much, but if ANY of them got into the game, that would probably make my whole year. Or at least, I'd almost as happy as I was when I learned about TWEWY2.

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Some of the ones higher at top are my most wanted

  • Sora
  • Crash Bandicoot
  • Sakura Shinguji
  • Chosen Undead
  • Shadow the Hedgehog (Sonic Echo)
  • Jill Valentine
  • Adol Christin
Edited by Jingilator

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Capcom

Spoiler

Dante (Devil May Cry)

Megaman X

Zero (MMZ)

Phoenix Wright

Monster Hunter

Leon Kennedy

Chun Li

 

Sega

Spoiler

Joker (Persona)

Valkyria Chronicles rep

Sonic (with alternate colors for Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, and Silver).

Axel (Streets of Rage)

 

Konami

Spoiler

Trevor Belmont

Alucard

Snake

Raiden

 

Sony

Spoiler

Kratos

Jak and Daxter

Ratchet and Clank

 

Microsoft

Spoiler

Master Chief

Banjo and Kazooie

 

Ubisoft

Spoiler

Ezio

 

Activision

Spoiler

Spyro

Crash

 

Ark Systemworks

Spoiler

Jin

 

Arenanet

Spoiler

Rytlock Brimstone

 

Blizzard

Spoiler

Diablo

Arthas

Tracer

 

Square

Spoiler

Cloud

Sephiroth

DQ Hero

2B

Alfyn (Octopath Traveler)

 

Bandai Namco

Spoiler

Yuri Lowell & Repede

Pacman

 

Nihon Falcom

Spoiler

Estelle Bright

Adol Christin

Olivert Reise Arnor

 

Riot Games

Spoiler

Twisted Fate

 

mIhOyO

Spoiler

Zhongli

 

Edited by Fabulously Olivier

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I'd still keep it relatively limited in the third-party department because while true Sakurai made a "celebration of gaming" statement, too many people take that to mean "OH GOODNESS EVERY THIRD-PARTY EVER GO GO GO!" Nah, the focus was and is still Nintendo first. For third-party in Smash 6, I'd keep most of what we have now, with one addition:

-Sonic
-Pac-Man
-Mega Man
-Solid Snake
-Ryu/Ken
-Cloud Strife
-Sephiroth
-Simon/Richter Belmont
-Bayonetta
-Hero
-Banjo-Kazooie
-Crash Bandicoot

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Falcom - Estelle Bright

This one is a pipe dream, tbh. Even if Falcom did get a rep in Smash, it likely wouldn’t be Estelle.

Lest/Frey - Rune Factory

More likely, but still not much. With all the farming equipment they could use, I’d say their movesets would be pretty diverse.

Honestly, those are the only ones I’d like to see be in Smash.

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Everyone's least favorite Yakuza fan is here to crash the party!

I'm gonna come outta left field a little and say that Kiryu or Majima of the Yakuza series by Sega/Ryu Ga Gotoku would be my preferred 3rd party members. I also think that they'd actual fit in real well, since they are from a fighting game already!

Since (In some of the games) both have four different fighting styles, they could have their down special be to switch styles, each one having different moves. (Although the Legend style could perhaps be charged up like Joker's ghost thing?) Either way, I feel like there's a lot that could be done. As for costumes, that would be pretty easy, given the variety of things they don over the course of the series. It'd be pretty fun to see how wild they get with those!

Also then we get Yakuza music into Smash, which makes Smash even better.

Theoretically, Ichiban could show up as well, but Kiryu and Majima have been around longer, so I feel like one or both of them would be better fits. And

2 hours ago, twilitfalchion said:

This one is a pipe dream, tbh. Even if Falcom did get a rep in Smash, it likely wouldn’t be Estelle.

Well, Steve made it in, soooo...

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See, the fun of this topic is that we can experiment with crazy "what if" scenarios where we can put any number of third-party fighters we want in Smash; it's not just about who we think will get in, but everyone we want to get in. For me, a series isn't properly repped in Smash until you have all of the A-listers and even some B-listers; single characters can't really capture the full beauty and appeal of a successful game or series (well, unless you're Mr. Game & Watch, I guess), and alternatives can bring their own cool gameplay gimmicks to Smash. Proto Man for example would be another fighter with a passive shield like Link or Hero, and a special weapon selection possibly distinct from that of Mega Man (he might even inherit some of Mega's weapons if you want to theme his moveset around, say, MM3, 5, and 10, the three games where he played the biggest role). Black Mage and White Mage could have targeting mechanics reminiscent of the classic FF titles that allow them to choose opponents or teammates to cast their spells at. N. Brio could have a meter that fills as he brews a mutation serum, and when it's full he can drink it to transform into the bigger, stronger Monster Brio for a short time.

Smash is the only truly successful game of its kind (certainly the most successful by a considerable margin) with gameplay that's both flexible and accessible, so this is the best place to play third-party characters in crossover battles. Where else could you hope to one day witness a dream match between Knuckles the Echidna, Bentley the Yeti, and Crunch Bandicoot? Or a showdown between Bass and Omega to decide who is the world's strongest robot? I think arbitrarily limiting third party fighters is unfair as that makes first-party out to be more important when third-party is honestly just as important, not to mention popular. Nintendo may have the right to prioritize their own fighters over third party guests in their own game, but to do so would feel incredibly conceited, especially in light of the N64 and GCN's struggles due to lacking third-party support compared to the PS1, PS2, and XBox. It was one thing when Smash 64 and Melee were first party-only, but then those were products of a time when Nintendo was alienating many third-party developers (though the GCN did invite a lot more creative designs such as Gotcha Force and Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles, and thus helped restore some good will between Nintendo and TPDs which paid off in spades come the Wii).

Sakurai, and Nintendo as a whole, have shown much respect for their third-party guests, so to me it would be all too fitting if Smash 6 did feature a lot more third-party fighters. Sonic is still considered Mario's greatest rival, if in a friendly manner now, so it would be a sign of respect from Nintendo to give him as many fighters as Mario (it helps that Sonic characters are crazy popular). And series like Mega Man and Final Fantasy certainly deserve a lot more than one or two reps, given their series' extensive histories, sequel counts, and varying styles and mechanics. I think the only reason we didn't see more third-parties this go-round is because of development time constraints; Nintendo certainly wants more third-party fighters in Smash, to the point they were willing to get the license for Banjo and Steve from fellow first-party company Microsoft. Come SSB6, I wouldn't be surprised if they push for even more third-party presence because they know that will excite fans and sell well.

Are they likely to include everyone I've asked for in the next game? Obviously not. I certainly wouldn't expect them to, though I would be thrilled beyond words if they did. But if I personally had the opportunity, I would put all those third-party fighters in Smash to help fulfill mine and many other players' crossover fighter dream scenarios. And really, is wish fulfillment not the point of Smash? Of crossovers in general, in fact?

Edited by Lord_Brand

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I'm going to say maybe to lay off with the too many third party characters for Ultimate and future Super Smash Bros. title (that be after Ultimate). I would usually pick two 3rd Party franchises per 3rd Party Company. We really shouldn't be overboard with third different franchise rep from the same 3rd Party company.

I think I will only choose the necessary 3rd Party characters for the next installment such as:

  1. Another Bandai Namco character, I would pick Llyod from Tales of Symphonia and maybe Ms. Pac-Man as an Echo Fighter or another Tales rep (it be a non-Echo Fighter similar to Sephiroth), Bandai Namco deserves another rep in Ultimate by the way.
  2. Another SNK character and maybe a third one be someone from Fatal Fury series, it be similar to Sephiroth had got in since Sephiroth is the first secondary 3rd Party rep from already represent franchise that isn't an echo fighter
  3. Shantae and maybe an another Wayfoward character
  4. Maybe another indie video game character since Steve was technically an indie character before he was purchased by Microsoft
Edited by King Marth 64

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On 1/24/2021 at 5:12 PM, King Marth 64 said:

I'm going to say maybe to lay off with the too many third party characters for Ultimate and future Super Smash Bros. title (that be after Ultimate). I would usually pick two 3rd Party franchises per 3rd Party Company. We really shouldn't be overboard with third different franchise rep from the same 3rd Party company.

If you don't want to pick that many for your list, that's fine. But I'll include as many as I feel like in my list, since that's the point of the topic. This topic is supposed to be one place where we can go overboard if we want.

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6 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

If you don't want to pick that many for your list, that's fine. But I'll include as many as I feel like in my list, since that's the point of the topic. This topic is supposed to be one place where we can go overboard if we want.

But you did said if one of us approached towards Sakurai or Nintendo. I was just giving it my opinion as a thought if I was working at Nintendo and tell it to Sakurai himself about it. I did thought of more 1st Party Characters should include for the future of Smash Bros. title along with my suggestions on keeping it a minimum of new 3rd Party Fighters for the roster since Namco and SNK needed a 2nd 3rd Franchise Party from their company.

Edited by King Marth 64

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6 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

No worries. Whether it's 1 third party fighter or 100, you're welcome to share.

😁thanks!

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On 2/6/2021 at 12:52 AM, King Marth 64 said:

But you did said if one of us approached towards Sakurai or Nintendo. I was just giving it my opinion as a thought if I was working at Nintendo and tell it to Sakurai himself about it. I did thought of more 1st Party Characters should include for the future of Smash Bros. title along with my suggestions on keeping it a minimum of new 3rd Party Fighters for the roster since Namco and SNK needed a 2nd 3rd Franchise Party from their company.

Fair enough. But I am curious to know what constitutes "too many", as to me third-party fighters are just as important as first-party, and certainly just as popular. Maybe not every third party series deserves a huge number of reps, but some (like Mega Man, Final Fantasy, and Sonic) are just too significant to limit to just one or two. Like, will we really be content with Cloud and Sephiroth as Final Fantasy's reps? Do they really represent the entirety of what Final Fantasy is about? Sure, they're popular characters, but are they really all the rep Final Fantasy deserves? Do the classic games really not matter enough to get their own reps? No Black Mage, Garland, or Chocobo & Moogle? No Cecil, Bartz, or Terra? Not every Final Fantasy fan is a fan of FFVII. Maybe fans of other FF games would like to have reps from their favorite games in as well?

Sonic can rep his own series pretty well, but is he really the only Sonic character we ever want to see as a Smash fighter? What about Eggman, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Shadow, Rouge, Blaze? I can hardly think of another video game series with a cast that has such a high average popularity among its characters, save for maybe Mega Man. Do none of them deserve to join Sonic on the roster?

Speaking of Mega Man, in addition to the Blue Bomber himself there's also Roll, Proto Man, Bass, Guts Man, Pharaoh Man...heck, probably half the classic Robot Masters. And that's just in the Classic series; going outside that, we have X, Zero, Vile, Sigma, Axl, Mega Man Volnutt, Tron Bonne, MegaMan.EXE...just saying, we're sitting on a veritable gold mine of cool, popular characters, here. Pound for pound, Mega Man probably has more popular characters than any other video game series.

And yes, I know some people would say "Well then just give these series their own smash-esque games!" There are a few problems with that:

  1. The whole point of Super Smash Bros. is its premise as a crossover, allowing for battles that couldn't happen elsewhere. Making "Sonic the Hedgehog Smash" means only playing Sonic characters, ever. Why do that when SSB gives us an opportunity to pit Sonic and his friends against the likes of Mario and Mega Man?
  2. No imitation SSB game has ever done well enough to come anywhere close to Smash itself. Remember DreamMix TV World Fighters? Scored well critically, but where are its sequels? How about PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale? Had potential, but a number of bad decisions and unfortunate circumstances scuttled it and likely killed all chances of seeing a sequel or even a successor. Does anyone else here even know Digimon: Rumble Arena or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Smash-Up exists?
  3. Related to the previous problem, it may not even be legally possible for another game to play exactly like Smash unless it belongs to Nintendo. See PSASBR; it came real dang close, but it feels like they had to alter the mechanics and gameplay focus or risk getting sued by Nintendo. So, "Super Smash Bros. but focused on series-X" may not even be possible.

That's why I'm such an advocate of more third-party fighters in Smash - because Smash is the only place where so many fighters from so many series have even a remotely realistic chance of gathering officially, and with gameplay that's both simple and easy to learn as well as deep and satisfying to master. Nothing else comes close, not even remotely. SSB has basically no competition, PSASBR's failure made that painfully clear. Whether or not that's how things should be, that's how things are.

So, if you're still determined that Smash should have only a bare minimum of third-party fighters, I will leave you to your opinion, but I hope you and everyone else here understands where I'm coming from on the whole matter. For me, Super Smash Bros. is the one opportunity I have to see my favorite first- and third-party series come together in a big, fun, awesome way. And I imagine that's how it is for a lot of other fans, too.

Edited by Lord_Brand

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3 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

MegaMan.EXE

We need to see this, as a huge Megaman Battle Network fan, of course. 

You would literally have limitless options for attacks here, to make it easy, even!

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16 hours ago, lightcosmo said:

We need to see this, as a huge Megaman Battle Network fan, of course. 

You would literally have limitless options for attacks here, to make it easy, even!

They could also include Roll.EXE, GutsMan.EXE, ProtoMan.EXE, and Bass.EXE, the Navis who most often appear alongside MegaMan.EXE. MegaMan, Roll, GutsMan, and ProtoMan all could have a Battle Chip gimmick that gives them five random chips pulled from personalized pools, which they then use with their N Specials. Bass doesn't have an operator, so he'd have to make do without Battle Chips. His ability to absorb data from programs such as Gospel, Alpha, and the Cybeasts would more than make up for that, however.

Edited by Lord_Brand

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23 hours ago, lightcosmo said:

We need to see this, as a huge Megaman Battle Network fan, of course. 

You would literally have limitless options for attacks here, to make it easy, even!

I loved Megaman Battle Network, though sadly, I didn't start playing them until Battle Network 5 (Team Colonel). I still need to finish Battle Network 6: Cybeast Gregar, now that I think about it.

My question is, which to go with for attacks: battlechips or soul/cross fusion (and to be clear, this is an inclusive or, not and either or)? I could see battlechips be used for standard attacks, and then selecting a soul/cross fusion could work like Shulk's monado arts, but in addition to changing stats, they also change the other special moves or something like that.

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33 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I loved Megaman Battle Network, though sadly, I didn't start playing them until Battle Network 5 (Team Colonel). I still need to finish Battle Network 6: Cybeast Gregar, now that I think about it.

My question is, which to go with for attacks: battlechips or soul/cross fusion (and to be clear, this is an inclusive or, not and either or)? I could see battlechips be used for standard attacks, and then selecting a soul/cross fusion could work like Shulk's monado arts, but in addition to changing stats, they also change the other special moves or something like that.

Well it depends on which games you use, as for MMBN 2 and 3, they don't use the double soul mechanic, and instead have Megaman using elemental "styles" to up his game. 

Which would be, Aqua, Wood, Fire, and Electric. 

overall i would go with chips as his main offence.

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18 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

Well it depends on which games you use, as for MMBN 2 and 3, they don't use the double soul mechanic, and instead have Megaman using elemental "styles" to up his game. 

Which would be, Aqua, Wood, Fire, and Electric. 

overall i would go with chips as his main offence.

Oh, right; the first games used elemental styles. I still have yet to play the first games. I really should. 

Yeah; I agree about chips as main offence. 

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4 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Oh, right; the first games used elemental styles. I still have yet to play the first games. I really should. 

Yeah; I agree about chips as main offence. 

Not the first one, only 2 and 3 do.

But yeah, the chip options are limitless. 

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6 minutes ago, lightcosmo said:

Not the first one, only 2 and 3 do.

But yeah, the chip options are limitless. 

I arrest my case about needing to play the first three games. 

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Having MegaMan use Style Change, Double Soul, and/or Cross System as a gameplay gimmick could be interesting. The Styles would be easier to adapt as costumes; not counting Hub style, there are seven: Guts, Custom, Shield, Team, Shadow, Ground, and Bug.

Then there's Double Soul and/or Cross Systems. Of the two, Cross System was undoubtedly the more popular as it didn't require a Chip sacrifice and it lasted the entire battle, so that's the one I would pick. Beast Out could be implemented as a Final Smash, which when combined with Cross System, becomes Cross Beast.

But it might be preferable to keep things simple and just stick with Battle Chips as attacks and Program Advance as a Final Smash.

Edited by Lord_Brand

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