Other customizable "Generic" fighters

[Lord_Brand]

I saw a pic of a Boo dressed as Bayonetta and it gave me an idea: What if there were other "generic" fighters like the Mii Fighters whose moveset and appearance can be customized? Say, a Goomba Fighter or Boo Fighter who can wear different hats, wigs, or other accessories and whose specials can be customized? This would be similar to the Custom Fighter System idea I've pitched in the past, but more focused on blank slate characters who normally appear as bulk enemies or other NPCs, whose "genericness" lends itself well to customization. In addition to costume pieces from their home series, many of these Custom Fighters' costume pieces are borrowed from other series; you can dress your Goomba up like Link or a Black Mage or give your Goron a Guts Man helmet and armor, for example.

Here are some templates I think would work well:

Spoiler

• Toad
• Goomba
• Koopa Troopa
• Shyguy
• Boo
• Poe
• Deku Scrub
• Goron
• Zora
• Waddle Dee
• Metall
• Palico
• Warrior
• Thief
• Monk
• Black Mage
• White Mage
• Red Mage
• Ninja
• Dragoon
• Chocobo & Moogle
• Slime
• Chao

Incidentally, Pikachu would be a good fit for this category as well, what with its numerous costumes and the ability to customize Pokemon movesets in the Pokemon series itself. Imagine giving Pikachu Surf and Fly as alternate specials in reference to the Pokemon Yellow days of Surfing and Flying Pikachu! Yeah, they definitely need to make Pikachu a Custom Fighter in SSB6.

[Morgan--Grandmaster]

Waddle Dees

Equipment: Spears, Brawling, Parasols, Bows, Mecha-Walker, Axes, Bombs

Colors: Standard, Purple, Gold, Blue, Yellow, Green, Pink, Black & White

Accessories: Bandana, Hard Hat, Sailor Hat, Captain's Hat, Cafe Hat, Dreamy Gear Hat, Lumberjack Hat, Dedede Hat, Soldier Helmet

Toads/Toadettes

Equipment: Vanilla, Tanooki Suit, Penguin Suit, Fire Flower, Ice Flower, Flying Squirrel Suit, Cat Suit, Builder

Colors: Standard, Red, Blue, Green, Yellow, Purple, Orange, Pink

Accessories: Captain's Gear, Glasses, Party Hat

Black/Red/White Mage

Types: Fire, Ice, Lightning, Earth, Water, Wind, Holy, Dark

Costumes: Classic, Promoted, III, V, XI, XIV, Tactics, Explorers

[Lord_Brand]

I like the costume suggestions for the Mages, but the Red Mage class is exclusive to the Viera in Tactics Advance and A2, so they'd either have to create a unique design for Smash or use a Viera for the Tactics costume. But I do like the idea of representing FF games with job systems beyond III and V! The Explorers costumes look pretty cool, and Explorers was released for 3DS, so there's a degree of Nintendo exclusivity there. Would definitely be interested in seeing those costumes in Smash!

[vanguard333]

One potential problem I see with this is that generic characters often have very limited movesets because, well, they're generic. For instance, Goombas and Boos only really have charging at someone. As a result, most generic characters I can think of who lend themselves well to customization are RPG characters and classes. 

For example, the Hunter from Monster Hunter could have customization options based on some of the different weapon types: greatsword/longsword/hammer/etc. as a slow hard-hitter, dual daggers as a fast fighter with limited KO potential, sword-&-shield as a balanced melee fighter that can utilize different items from the series (since sword-&-shield is the only weapon type that can use an item without unequipping the weapon), bowgun for a ranged fighter, etc. 

[Lord_Brand]

2 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

One potential problem I see with this is that generic characters often have very limited movesets because, well, they're generic. For instance, Goombas and Boos only really have charging at someone. As a result, most generic characters I can think of who lend themselves well to customization are RPG characters and classes. 

I would watch BrawlFan1's videos, he just might change your mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmUjWMwR8QI

Goomba has an easy choice for Up Special: Paragoomba. Goomba sprouts wings and gains multiple midair jumps for a time as a sort of power-up. Kuribo's Shoe could also factor in somewhere, like as a Side Special where the Goomba hops forward and damages opponents. Goombas have been known to use power-ups like Mario, such as the Super Leaf and Cat Bell. From the Paper Mario games, they can draw the Headbonk attack, spiked hats, and the ability to charge up fearsomely strong attacks (Hyper Goombas). Their Final Smash could be Giant Goomba, in which the Goomba grows to a giant size and leaps forward, looking to stomp opponents as payback for years of being stomped on themselves.

As for Boos, they have demonstrated the ability to vanish and reappear, which could be used for an attack like Greninja's Shadow Sneak or Meta Knight's Dimensional Cape. Their tendency to hide their faces when looked at could be implemented into a counterattack. They have performed aerial maneuvers similar to Meta Knight's Shuttle Loop before. They have been known to summon buddies, and according to E. Gadd, their mysterious powers increase when they gather together in large groups, suggesting they could introduce a sort of swarming mechanic where you can summon multiple Boo Buddies that will make your Boo's attacks stronger. Their Final Smash could be Big Boo, in which multiple Boos combine into a Big Boo that charges forward, mouth agape.

And the thing with designing Smash fighters is, you don't just look at what they have done but also what they could do. Sometimes, you borrow abilities another character has used (see: Zelda) or even come up with original moves altogether (see: Captain Falcon). Goomba could use its feet to kick objects such as Koopa Shells or soccer balls. Boo could shoot a ghostly blue or purple fireball with an aura or darkness effect that homes in on targets, perhaps inspired by the spirit orbs in the Luigi's Mansion series. If you have Boo Buddies, they might even be able to shoot multiple fireballs at once.

[Jotari]

Just let me customize the appearance of all the fighters in the game (and bring back custom specials). If I want to give a sunhat to Bayonetta or a pair of glasses on Link then why not?

[Lord_Brand]

I'm all for making all fighters customizable, too! I just think this would be a good push in that direction.

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

I'm all for making all fighters customizable, too! I just think this would be a good push in that direction.

I don't really see what's actually different about this compared to customizing regular fighters. Like you're suggesting stuff like Boos and then backing it up with the stuff they can do in their own games, that's not a generic fighter, that's a just plain playable Boo. As far as actual customized movesets go the only thing I think they're sort of missing would be a Wii Sportsman, which could use weapons and items from Wii sports, but even that verges on "This is just playable X" with the only difference being Miis are already customizable and already in the game.

[Lord_Brand]

50 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I don't really see what's actually different about this compared to customizing regular fighters. Like you're suggesting stuff like Boos and then backing it up with the stuff they can do in their own games, that's not a generic fighter, that's a just plain playable Boo. As far as actual customized movesets go the only thing I think they're sort of missing would be a Wii Sportsman, which could use weapons and items from Wii sports, but even that verges on "This is just playable X" with the only difference being Miis are already customizable and already in the game.

But which playable Boo? You have some notable Boos like King Boo and Lady Bow, and then you have the nameless generic Boos that appear in Ghost Castles, spinoffs, and such. That's what I mean by "generic"; it's not any one specific Boo but rather a Boo template that you can use to craft a Boo of your very own. And their moveset options can expand beyond what the games offer! After all, the games themselves often add new abilities over time.

That said, some defined fighters like Mario and Link would be prime for customizaton, too.

[Jotari]

8 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

But which playable Boo? You have some notable Boos like King Boo and Lady Bow, and then you have the nameless generic Boos that appear in Ghost Castles, spinoffs, and such. That's what I mean by "generic"; it's not any one specific Boo but rather a Boo template that you can use to craft a Boo of your very own. And their moveset options can expand beyond what the games offer! After all, the games themselves often add new abilities over time.

That said, some defined fighters like Mario and Link would be prime for customizaton, too.

Well which Koopaling is Bowser Jr? Which Piranha Plant is Piranha Plant? The answer is all of them. Characters always take moves from multiple incarnations and related characters (which Link is Link? The main inspiration is obvious but all Smash Bros versions take from multiple incarnations). Boo could be a perfectly reasonable new fighter that has King Boo and Lady Bow and Big Boo palette swaps and use moves inspired by all the abilities we see across the series. And Boo could have some customization in said moveset if they ever bring back custom specials. But let's face it, that's not a customizeable generic character. The Miis are barely even customizable generic characters. All they have in terms of gameplay is altered special moves which is something all characters (and in particularly Paluenta) had in SSB4. It's not like you can even customize their standard moveset. Give us the option to place the Mii costumes on the main playable cast and bring back custom specials and we have exactly what you're asking for. There's no need to invent a subset of fighter that would in practice be exactly like the stuff we get already.

[Lord_Brand]

Technically, Bowser isn't a Koopaling himself, they were just grouped with him since they serve similar roles and it was a convenient way to fill in seven costume slots. And they each have their own name, so only one of them is actually Bowser Jr. Piranha Plant is generic, not any one specific character, and so could in theory be good for customization as well. Link in SSBU is pretty clearly Link from BotW (I wish they had made Champion Link an Echo rather than replacing the OoT/TP Links, but then I'm the kind of fan who would have 7-8 different Links in Smash, taken from different games and featuring different movesets).

I suggested customization for generic fighters as a way to help them stand out from defined characters, and I acknowledged that some defined characters like Mario and Link would be ideal for customization as well. However, they are unlikely to add customization for current fighters in SSBU other than Mii Fighters. But if they were to add new generic fighters like Piranha Plant, they could make them customizable like the Mii Fighters, and that in turn could serve as a stepping stone towards SSB6 making all fighters customizable, assuming they want to go that route.

Edited February 2, 2021 by Lord_Brand

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Technically, Bowser isn't a Koopaling himself, they were just grouped with him since they serve similar roles and it was a convenient way to fill in seven costume slots. And they each have their own name, so only one of them is actually Bowser Jr. Piranha Plant is generic, not any one specific character, and so could in theory be good for customization as well. Link in SSBU is pretty clearly Link from BotW (I wish they had made Champion Link an Echo rather than replacing the OoT/TP Links, but then I'm the kind of fan who would have 7-8 different Links in Smash, taken from different games and featuring different movesets).

I suggested customization for generic fighters as a way to help them stand out from defined characters, and I acknowledged that some defined characters like Mario and Link would be ideal for customization as well. However, they are unlikely to add customization for current fighters in SSBU other than Mii Fighters. But if they were to add new generic fighters like Piranha Plant, they could make them customizable like the Mii Fighters, and that in turn could serve as a stepping stone towards SSB6 making all fighters customizable, assuming they want to go that route.

They're not going to add generic custom fighters to SSBU either. Because even if they do exactly what you're suggesting, it wouldnt be a generic custom fighter. It'd be an outright fighter like Piranha Plant. They might add a DLC fighter with a custom specials, but that's still not a generic custom fighter, anymore than a given SSB4 character is a generic custom fighter.

[Lord_Brand]

Right...so, do you have anything to contribute to the topic itself?

[Lightcosmo]

Huh this idea seems pretty neat, but personally I would rather have better alts for characters A la PM style. 

But for the the sake of being on topic:

I guess I'm not 100% sure what it means, but how about having a custom Pokeball for the Pokemon? Y'know, like great ball, timer ball, dive ball etc. And you could also have the seals from D/P/PT! Customizable for any Pokemon! 

[Lord_Brand]

Neat ideas! They would make sense as costume options for Pokemon. I especially like the Pokeball idea, very out-of-the-box.

[Lightcosmo]

Haha, thanks! Sorry i couldn't think of more, though.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

On 1/31/2021 at 7:32 AM, Jotari said:

Just let me customize the appearance of all the fighters in the game (and bring back custom specials). If I want to give a sunhat to Bayonetta or a pair of glasses on Link then why not?

Y'know I'm playing Tekken 7, and it stuns me that both it and Smash are made under the same company when messing around with christmas-themed Akuma. I'd love to alter the appearance of these characters, because 8 recolors is so restrictive. I imagine that they need to get permission with rights holders with every single alt, and that sometimes companies will say no, in the cases of the always yellow pikachu and always blue Sonic. Generic accessories probably get around this issue, even if they're made after release of the game. The 8 alts idea is also outdated because Smash bros no longer restricts you to a specific alt in team battles. So there's no longer a mandatory red/blue/green/yellow alt for all characters, you can look however you want in any mode. 

Tekken has items and entire costumes unique to a specific character, in addition to shared items anybody could wear (glasses, hats, etc) that can be mixed and matched. Not sure if they could be quite as free in Smash bros, since not every character is human proportioned, but it's worth a shot. I don't think people would get too upset if Ridley wasn't allowed some generic hat because his head is so strangely shaped. Or heck, give him the hat anyway and let players make fun of it before coming around to love it. Smash Bros could get very creative referencing source material with character specific aesthetics. Mario with a wing cap, young link wearing a keaton mask, and a greater emphasis on awesome costumes to show off in. It would also give us something new to unlock that players would care about. If players are open to unlocking every single smash bros character at the start of a new game, they're probably open to the idea of a smash game where all the characters are unlocked, but none of the alts are. 

[Jotari]

9 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Y'know I'm playing Tekken 7, and it stuns me that both it and Smash are made under the same company when messing around with christmas-themed Akuma. I'd love to alter the appearance of these characters, because 8 recolors is so restrictive. I imagine that they need to get permission with rights holders with every single alt, and that sometimes companies will say no, in the cases of the always yellow pikachu and always blue Sonic. Generic accessories probably get around this issue, even if they're made after release of the game. The 8 alts idea is also outdated because Smash bros no longer restricts you to a specific alt in team battles. So there's no longer a mandatory red/blue/green/yellow alt for all characters, you can look however you want in any mode. 

Tekken has items and entire costumes unique to a specific character, in addition to shared items anybody could wear (glasses, hats, etc) that can be mixed and matched. Not sure if they could be quite as free in Smash bros, since not every character is human proportioned, but it's worth a shot. I don't think people would get too upset if Ridley wasn't allowed some generic hat because his head is so strangely shaped. Or heck, give him the hat anyway and let players make fun of it before coming around to love it. Smash Bros could get very creative referencing source material with character specific aesthetics. Mario with a wing cap, young link wearing a keaton mask, and a greater emphasis on awesome costumes to show off in. It would also give us something new to unlock that players would care about. If players are open to unlocking every single smash bros character at the start of a new game, they're probably open to the idea of a smash game where all the characters are unlocked, but none of the alts are. 

Nintendo All Stars Fashion Boutique is something I've wanted Smash to do for a while now. They could even let you customize individual parts of a character for those with weapons and other such equipment. Like swap out Link's shield for a mirror shield or give Ike Alondite.

[Lord_Brand]

I have suggested those things before too, as part of my "Custom Fighter System". I just figured this would be a good stepping stone in that direction. I thought it'd be neat if "generic" fighters got customization first, to help them stand out from the already cool Mario, Link, etc. But yeah, if they wanna go nuts with fighter customization in SSB6, I'm game.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Lord_Brand