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What is the best Kaga era game?


The Moon Mage
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What is the best kaga era game?   

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  1. 1. What was the best game of this era?

    • Shadow dragon and the blade of light
    • Gaiden
    • Mystery of the emblem
    • Genealogy of the holy war
    • Thracia 776
    • Berwick Saga
    • Tearring Saga
      0
    • Vesteria Saga


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Which of the games that our lord and savior kaga made was the best? For me definitely mystery of the emblem, It was just amazing all around. FE1 was okay. Gaiden was the worst game in the series by far. Genealogy was a bore fest. And thracia while good still doesn't compare to FE3 and the game also had some really questionable decisions.  But there all made from kaga and his influences so there all perfect anyway. Kaga bless us. 

Edited by The Moon Mage
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12 minutes ago, The Moon Mage said:

Not gonna lie, I forgot that game existed. Though mainly because I haven't played it yet. Is it any good?

Oh!

It's really really good!

It's Kaga's most unique games, and quite different from most FE. While i have my fair share of problems with it (namely RNG related), it's in my Top 5 'FE' list, and i really would've liked to see a sequel.

The turn system is one of my fav. SRPG wise.

@Saint Rubenio @Benice @Dayni  @BrightBow @Spara These guys can explain it better, as they are the big Berwick guys around here^^

Edited by Shrimperor
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I can't vote because Berwick Saga isn't in the poll. I recently wrote a wall of text regarding Berwick in a different thread. I'm not sure if I'm articulate enough to truly do the game justice, but I think this covers about everything.

It's the best strategy game I've ever played, in my humble opinion at least, and Kaga's magnum opus. It's so completely unlike his other games, so lacking in the usual Kaga-brand bullshit, that it almost doesn't feel like a Kaga game. The maps are all (with only one exception) tightly designed and often very unique in scope and objectives, and the saves the game offers every 5 turns help alleviate any frustration you may feel. There are also many gameplay quirks and mechanics that make the game quite unique, unlike any other I've seen. If I had to describe it, it's kind of like a middle ground between FE and something like Final Fantasy Tactics, but really, in practice, it feels like its own beast.

The lack of a proper enemy phase (player and enemy units move simultaneously) and the fact that battles end when someone gets hit make for a very player-focused game. Skills and equipment are more important than stats (which are actually rather unimportant), and almost every unit has something unique to them that isn't easily replicated. There's but two truly bad units in the game, and they're both justified. On the other hand, free recruits are difficult to come by. Most people are initially mercenaries that you have to hire with coin, and each character has their own requirements to join permanently, dependant on their character arcs. The gameplay-story integration, already one of Kaga's specialties, is at an all-time high in this game.

Speaking of the story, it is also wonderful. I'd call it better than all of FE, but that's just me, heh. It differs in scale from most FEs. You're no hero, you're just some guy who arrives at the king's doorstep with a tiny force to offer your humble help. The game's missions are divided into main missions, where you follow the main characters in their important quests, and sidequests, where the lords aren't available. In those, usually you just help someone out of a bind or do somebody some sort of favor (though these "favors" vary in scale, of course).
The game also makes an effort to introduce the secondary characters into the main campaign, by making them the protagonists of their own missions, their own side objectives and their own events. It's a different system from FE's supports, and I believe it comes across as more organic and just better.

Then there's the graphics and the music. They're not as important, but they're also great. The pixel art in this game is gorgeous.

Now, if I had to list any flaws, well... If you're not fond of RNG in FE, this game might drive you a little crazy at the beginning - however, rest assured that the game is designed around it. Hitrates are quite low, but the "battles end when someone gets hit" mechanic justifies that, and there are ways to improve your reliability even at the beginning.
Weapon durability is also RNG, with the chance of breaking increasing as the weapon's condition worsens, but the chance is low enough that I don't think it's that big of a deal. Certainly a flaw, but not a gamebreaking one.
You can capture enemies to take their equipment and sometimes ransom them back for money, but capturing is the most RNG this game gets, and though there are ways to improve your chances, it's never as reliable as I'd personally like.
There's one map that's kinda bad. Yes, only one map, and even it is certainly not on the same level as the likes of Battle Before Dawn. Again, in my opinion, but... yeah.

...And that's about all the flaws I can come up with. Overall, it's a game that is tightly designed and excellent in every aspect, with very few flaws that don't drag down the experience. One of the most unique strategy games out there, offering a fair challenge, varied missions, replay value in spite of its length and a great story to top it all off. I would call it a masterpiece, and I cannot recommend it enough to everyone that can find a way to play it.

 

Out of the options in this poll, my vote would go to Thracia. Though its quality tanks a bit in the lategame, its unique mechanics and bold decisions make for a very memorable game.

Edited by Saint Rubenio
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Yeah, pretty much what Ruben said, though I'd add the mid-section of 10-m to the part about the one other bad map, because hidden enemies with ORKO potential that move is just stupid. On the other hand, though, by making enemies be affected by fog of war, all the fog maps are better than like 90% of FE fog maps by default, so that's nice. Hell, my favorite map in Berwick is a fog mission, when I'm usually not a fan of the mechanic. 

Also, agreed on picking FE5 out of the Kaga-era FEs, though FE3 is a close second among them. I still like FE4, but definitely not as much as 3 and 5. 

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Thracia 776 > Mystery of the Emblem > Genealogy of the Holy War > Shadow Dragon and the Sword of Light >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gaiden

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22 minutes ago, The Moon Mage said:

Gaiden truly is the worst game in the series.

*sad Gaiden noises*

Jokes aside, there's really no reason to revisit it since Echoes: Shadow of Valentia exists. I love Gaiden because it's what got us Echoes in the first place, but I can agree that Gaiden's not the best that the series has to offer. 

~ ~ ~

Out of the options on the poll, I'd hand it to Thracia 776. I still desperately need to actually play more of it, but I can already tell you that it's the best FE from Kaga. It's gotten to the point where I'm excited to see the number 776; it's probably my second favorite number now, only behind the number 3.

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It's between Mystery and Thracia for me. I would probably say Mystery since it is my preferred but Thracia as a game is probably more objectively better. If I didn't need a guide whenever I wanted to play it, Thracia would win hands down (and probably be up there as one of my fav FEs). I also have a soft spot for Gaiden despite its redundancy with SoV existing and outdatedness. SDBoL and GotHW can well... yeah

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3 hours ago, The Moon Mage said:

Not gonna lie, I forgot that game existed. Though mainly because I haven't played it yet. Is it any good?

Fantastic. I can't really add much more than what Ruben already said, but it's worth a play, 100%. And the soundtrack is a slapper and a half.

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I'd vote Berwick as well similar to the guys up there. But when it boils down to FE-only options, gotta hand it to Thracia for being the second phase of Kaga's design madness after Genealogy. I went in blind first on Thracia and I wish I can erase my memory every time I start a Thracia playthrough because all the brilliance hit hard on the first time and second times onward are not as good (still being the 2nd top FE game for me gameplay wise, after Radiant Dawn).

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49 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Choosing between Genealogy and Thracia ia so hard....

Also if you do add  Berwick Saga, you should add Tearring Saga, and Vesteria Saga as well...

Wait you can add extra vote options? Sorry I'm new here. 

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Genealogy but damn, do I love the Kaga era. Yeah, I'm one of those "FE peaked during the Kaga era and never really recovered after" type of person. Tear Ring Saga is also another favourite and I very recently played and loved Vestaria Saga.

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mmmm

thracia>mystery>genealogy>sd>>>>gaiden

 

i havent play the bearwick , tearring  and vesteria saga, so i cant rank them. I hope to play  this year.

Edited by doggowaffles
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Recently completed GOTHW (fe4) and I must say I enjoyed it quite a lot. I can see what its not everyone's cup of tea. 

FE1 and 2 are fine to experience but not something I would actively choose to play. FE3 I haven't tried yet but I intend to, and I am in the middle of FE5. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I haven't played Vestaria, yet. Got it downloaded and ready to go along with both side stories. Currently playing through Berwick Saga for the first time, have played all others.
Gotta say that the best is Berwick, but my favourite is Genealogy. It will probably always be Genealogy for me. It was my very first FE game ever, back in 1996. And thus I have been cursed with what I call "Genealogy Syndrome". It's so different from other FE games to the point that I can't really appreciate any other "proper" FE game. By "proper" I mean 100500 units to choose from, tiny maps, sharing the war funds, 100500 weapons to purchase, scarce colosseums, etc. The curse is real.


I have played all FE games on NES, SNES and GBA. Also played Tear Ring Saga on PS1. And Awakening on 3DS.
Out of all of them I have ever completed only one, Genealogy. I just can't play more than 5 maps deep of any other it seems. Though I vaguely recall getting to what seemed like endgame (maybe?) in Awakening. I just lose interest only to pick them up again in a few years. And lose interest again, till a few years pass by.

On a different side note, I really like 風花雪月 (translated as Three Houses for some obscure reason). Or should I say, I like one particular storyline, the Genealogy-esque thingies, customization, and weapon repair system. I can't play any other storyline because everything just pisses me off (storywise).
That makes it two FE games I have finished in 25 years of playing them. Out of what, 11? Damn))
Currently on Berwick, and man, it's brilliant. I'm sure it will be added as the third game I have completed 100% to my FE list. It's the first "proper" FE game that almost ignores the curse of Genealogy. I'm not bothered by the 100500 units, weapons, warfund sharing, lack of colosseums, etc. Very strange feeling.

Am I finally awakening to Kaga magic or something?))

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30 minutes ago, IshiharaS said:

I haven't played Vestaria, yet. Got it downloaded and ready to go along with both side stories.

Damnit, how I envy you Japanese speakers. I cannot play Vestaria 2 like this!

Anyway, Vestaria's pretty good. A step down from Berwick Saga, for sure, but I think you might enjoy the bigger maps.

17 minutes ago, IshiharaS said:

Currently on Berwick, and man, it's brilliant.

Facts. It's a truly special game. Probably the best strategy game I've ever played, and definitely my favorite. There's a few games that I hold very close to my heart, and Berwick belongs among them.

21 minutes ago, IshiharaS said:

I'm not bothered by the 100500 units, weapons, warfund sharing, lack of colosseums, etc. Very strange feeling.

The 100500 units is probably because Berwick's cast is far more distinct and unique than any other roster in FE. The "weapons 'n funds" thing might be due to stores being readily available between each battle, instead of having to fill the convoy with supplies for the future. Berwick's handling of experience (namely, it being far more scarce than usual) would make arenas gamebreaking, so it makes sense that they're absent. As for the smaller maps, Berwick's maps are similar in size to most FE maps, but they're so much more creative and busy in terms of objectives, distractions and challenges that they don't "feel" tiny. For the most part.

19 minutes ago, IshiharaS said:

Gotta say that the best is Berwick, but my favourite is Genealogy. It will probably always be Genealogy for me. It was my very first FE game ever, back in 1996. And thus I have been cursed with what I call "Genealogy Syndrome". It's so different from other FE games to the point that I can't really appreciate any other "proper" FE game. By "proper" I mean 100500 units to choose from, tiny maps, sharing the war funds, 100500 weapons to purchase, scarce colosseums, etc. The curse is real.

Hahah... Well, Genealogy's its own beast. If your favorite parts of Genealogy are the ones that make it "Genealogy", so to speak, I can understand why you wouldn't enjoy the rest of the series.

I've never played Genealogy, myself. I must admit, the huge maps and purportedly low difficulty make me hesitate every time. Nothing I hate more than a FE that bores me, and low difficulty seems to kill my enjoyment every single time I try an easier FE. One day I'll have to at least try it, though. How can I call myself a proper Kaga elitist if I've never played Genealogy?

You know what, you seem rather passionate about it. May I ask you to explain why, in detail? See if you can make me see what's so great about it, if you want. Don't be afraid to write a wall of text if you need. I'm always doing it with Berwick (as you can see earlier in the thread), it's about time I found myself on the receiving end.

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1 hour ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I've never played Genealogy, myself. I must admit, the huge maps and purportedly low difficulty make me hesitate every time. Nothing I hate more than a FE that bores me, and low difficulty seems to kill my enjoyment every single time I try an easier FE. One day I'll have to at least try it, though. How can I call myself a proper Kaga elitist if I've never played Genealogy?

Oh? You actually never played Genealogy? That ain't good))) Regardless of being a Kaga elitist or not, Genealogy is very worth it. I remember getting my non-gamer friend hooked on it back in the day. The guy literally plays almost no games, but ended up even buying the novels for Genealogy. That's something.

I don't know your extent of knowledge, so I'll try to stay obscure about some elements. Which is quite hard, since certain spoilery thing plays a major role in Genealogy. In many ways. There are things I can say though, so let me see what I can preach.

So first off, the huge maps. Perhaps you heard a different title for Genealogy, namely "Horse Emblem". A common complaint. With huge maps it's only natural that mounted units will be regarded as better units. Simply because they can traverse the map faster. But here's a question from me to people who complain about that: Where are you hurrying to?
Horse Emblem is only true if you're going for max rank upon beating the game. The tactics part is solely about total number of turns you spend, and yes, mounted units are the ones tasked with very important tactics. In other words, to achieve the highest tactics rank you got to be going with full speed at the objectives each and every turn. Max movement each turn. Which leaves foot soldiers behind in the dust. (There are different strats for getting the "All A" rank, so you can afford to waste quite a few turns, maybe even a 100 turns, if you really know exactly what you're doing) So the question becomes "what about the foot soldiers?" and if you're going for All A rank, you gotta deal with exp problem. Highest rank is obtained by having certain amount of total level ups for all the units. So you can't neglect the foot soldiers, they need exp too. Thus even the Horse Emblem isn't as easy as "all horses charge!" because the only reason to do so is a ranked run. Or a speedrun. But speedrun abuses glitches anyway, and I do not know anyone who didn't go for any%.
At the same time those huge maps make perfect sense in Genealogy. They won't make any sense in any other FE game that I know, but in Genealogy the story demands it. Each chapter is a map. It doesn't mean you got to finish the chapter in one sitting, or traverse the whole map within an hour. You just get to see the landscape. Imagine you could see 5~6 maps at once in say... Shadow Dragon. You start at the island from which you see the port city you want to get to, mountains behind it, a river behind the mountains range and some grass plains on the other bank of the river. You still need to get off that island and once you do that situation changes and you get enemies waiting for you in the port. As you complete the port assault you hear of some bandits in the mountains so you go there, etc. All on same map. Shadow Dragon just breaks it into separate maps. You simply see all the maps in advance, doesn't change that story has distinct points you go through. And it makes all the sense in the plot scheme of Genealogy.
Those huge maps are not intended to be beaten in a single sitting. They're not.

Low difficulty... I look at it this way: those who say "man, it's dead easy" are saying that after they beat it a couple times. I have never heard anyone who played it blind say "was that supposed to be challenging or something? lol, easiest FE I played". On the contrary, I've seen a streamer start from the beginning his no-reset (known as ironman in English community?) blind run as he got massacred halfway through. I've seen streamers struggle on their blind runs.
I wouldn't say Genealogy is particularly difficult. Once you know enough it does become very easy to beat. Even blind no-reset runs won't necessarily be near impossible as long as you play it safe and use your head. There are traps. Plenty of them. You can easily lose 3~4 units on the first chapter (not to be confused with Prologue, which is the very first map). At the same time, there's nothing to be afraid of once you know what you're doing. You'll be more irritated by the time it takes to traverse the map, but again, only if you know what you're doing.
There are 5 items practically unobtainable on blind play through in the first half. Easy to get once you know what to look for and quite powerful. Two of them are almost defining certain characters. Of course you'll feel the difficulty dropping if you have access to them.
There are almost OP characters. They'll be able to carry the team. In fact, they kinda do. Which also makes perfect sense in Genealogy. It's the instance where lore is incorporated into game mechanics.

The opening movie tells you the story of how 12 warriors drove back whole Imperial army and eventually took down continental empire. 12. Not 12 thousand. Once you get to see those legendary weapons you will understand how that was possible. Those relics still won't make your units invincible, but it will be very close to that. Against low born, commoner soldiers. Enemy too has access to some relics.
I still remember how a streamer I was watching went "What the hell!? What am I supposed to do about THAT!? Is this for real??". And we, the audience, told him that yes, it was all for real, and he better start choosing units he gonna sacrifice. After an hour of extremely cautious game play and lots of prayers he was able to get through that part without losing anyone. After that we told him two precise strategies which make easy work of the problem. One of them he could've figured out on his own, the other was impossible to implement for him due to how things went on previous maps. We were also dead serious when we told him he better choose who dies. No one expected him to pull it off without casualties, and it wasn't something like enemy reinforcement appeared at worse possible point, he was getting greedy, he couldn't see it coming, etc. It was one of the obstacles in plain sight.

There are powerful units and meme level units. You can rely on the "good" ones and keep going. Then you'll hit a couple brick walls. Like I did on my very first playthrough. I still remember it after all these years, because I got stuck on final map. Literally half my army was utterly useless and I couldn't figure out how to beat the big bads waiting ahead as I kept losing even my good units on my way there. I got tired and depressed. So I started from beginning)) Not the beginning of the final chapter, but the game. Good old times of me being bad at FE))

Eventually I got to the level where every single unit is awesome in my eyes. Even the archer who joins in the prologue. He's famous for "silent" level ups. When none of the stats increase. At all. Probably the worst imaginable growth rate ever. Jeigan level growth, except he starts at level 1. He's actually pretty good. Just got to know how to make the best of him, and he can be an ace unit. Or the armoured knight you get from the beginning. The game actually lays a trap telling you how to use him. If you listen to the advice... well, you'll find out. It's not anything crucial, affecting actual tactics, but completely kills off his potential. There are places where he can be quite a hero. Fending off literally hordes of enemies. Alone. Protecting everyone. Speaking of which, remember Derrick from Berwick Saga? How he's told he's slow, tanky and strong? That's a call back to the Genealogy knight))

To sum it up, back to original point, only those who have finished at least two runs of Genealogy (or heavily relied on guidebooks and walkthroughs) will say it's easy. Little do they know that Kaga specifically addressed the difficulty and said that the game was designed to be at its best with certain way of playing. I can assure you that none of those people who call it easy played the "Kaga" way on their first playthrough, and still had challenging experiences. Just don't do one simple thing, and the difficulty of the second half (the main portion) will jump. But of course no one does that. And when they do, they prepare specifically for it using their knowledge of what's to come.

Ok, so that was me trying to address your concerns. I haven't even started ranting about things I appreciate in Genealogy))
If you don't mind walls of text, tell me how much you know about Genealogy, and I'll be able to shower you with things that make Genealogy my favourite FE game without spoiling much.

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