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What is the best Kaga era game?


The Moon Mage
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What is the best kaga era game?   

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  1. 1. What was the best game of this era?

    • Shadow dragon and the blade of light
    • Gaiden
    • Mystery of the emblem
    • Genealogy of the holy war
    • Thracia 776
    • Berwick Saga
    • Tearring Saga
      0
    • Vesteria Saga


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1 hour ago, IshiharaS said:

Speaking of which, remember Derrick from Berwick Saga? How he's told he's slow, tanky and strong? That's a call back to the Genealogy knight

Ahahah, yes, of course. How to forget ol' Arden? A meme almost on Derrick's level. Almost.

1 hour ago, IshiharaS said:

If you don't mind walls of text, tell me how much you know about Genealogy, and I'll be able to shower you with things that make Genealogy my favourite FE game without spoiling much.

Go right ahead! I know all the main events of the story, some broad things about the mechanics and I can place a few of the characters. Very little about the maps themselves. I know you have to move Arden to a random cliff somewhere to get one of the best items in the game, and... that's about it, really.

If you want, you can put the spoilery things in a spoiler box. You haven't been in Serenes very long, so if you don't know how to place one of those, you click here:

Xdoujaft o

Anything you write inside the box will be hidden in the actual post, until the reader clicks on it.

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6 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Ahahah, yes, of course. How to forget ol' Arden? A meme almost on Derrick's level. Almost.

Spoiler

Derrick is such a well-written character...once get to know who he is actually, why he's posing as an armor knight all the time and his ambition. Too bad his background & story can be easily missed even if it's only costs several 50 denaris.

 

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My vote goes to Berwick Saga, I have never played FE1 and 3 not counting the remakes, as well as Vesteria Saga and never managed to finish 2, 4 and 5.

I can't really say much more than what Ruben already said about Berwick, however, one thing I didn't like is how the game never really explains what effects some mechanics have, like foods or furnitures. Aside from a few things I think could have been handled better, I like almost everything about the game. The story is pretty good, music is awesome, I would rate the graphics and animations as one of the best in the series including the 3ds titles. Most of the maps feels unique and challenging, there are plenty of sidequests aside form the main missions.

The RNG can feel a bit unfair thanks to low hit rates, breakable equipments etc, but there are ways to get around those most of the time. Of course, it still feels bad when a personal weapon breaks at green, but you get ways to repair them although limited. The capture system feels the most RNG reliant but there are ways to increase the chance including abusing the 5 turn saves to get the important captures.

I especially like how they managed to balance the units and even the most op units can't break the game unlike most other FE. Skills and equipments are far more important than stats, even the meme unit have their uses. The relatively smaller cast makes each character feel unique and interesting, including most of the major NPCs and enemies. The mercenary system feels more realistic compared to random people joining you for no reasons. The mounted units are valuable and powerful just like in FE, but Berwick manages to balance them by adding a lot of places they have to dismount or can't access at all, as well as giving the horses their own hp, which means you have to be careful about using and managing them.

There are a lot of things you get to manage aside form doing the missions, like horses, foods, mercenaries, civilian quests, bounties, crafitng items, furnitures etc. You even get unique and some of the most powerful items in the game by methods which I won't spoil.

In the end, I would say it is the best strategy game I have played so far. There are obviously some flaws but the positives overshadow the negatives completely, definitely recommend playing this masterpiece.

 

11 hours ago, IshiharaS said:

Ok, so that was me trying to address your concerns. I haven't even started ranting about things I appreciate in Genealogy))
If you don't mind walls of text, tell me how much you know about Genealogy, and I'll be able to shower you with things that make Genealogy my favourite FE game without spoiling much.

As someone who didn't like the huge maps and stopped playing around chapter 2, I would like to know more about Genealogy as well. I lost the previous save and never really bothered to replay it from the start. Unlike Ruben, my main problems were the maps and how different the mechanics felt, trading for example.

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Now then. Under the guise of "best Kaga game ever" (though I wouldn't say it's the best, Berwick is more refined and tiring for different reasons), I shall commence my advocating speech.

First and foremost, it's the story. As a book lover I always play games as though I'm reading a book, so the plot plays a big role for me. I wouldn't say it's a very unique or refined story, but it does something you don't see in generic heroic sagas. It makes you care for the world and the characters even before the heroic portion starts.
Kaga said in some interview that he was initially going for a 3 act story, but they had to completely cut out the third act, so things got kinda squished together. Genealogy is also a historic war drama, like Berwick, more than a heroic saga. Especially the first part. Every character got some flaws. Everyone is trying to accomplish something and ends up making things even worse in a way. Truly, pathway to hell is paved with good intentions.
Like Berwick, you don't start out with an orphaned heir to a kingdom who leads band of rebels recruiting 100500 units along the way. The grand scheming goes on somewhere else while you're trying to do what you can in circumstances no one really wanted. So by the time the heroic portion starts you're already invested in the continent of Jugdral. Villains are unique and rich too. My top 3 favourite characters are all antagonists)) They bring color and depth to the story where it's not about good vs evil, though ultimately it is. Kinda. I take it more like us vs them. (As I'm writing I'm suddenly realising huge parallels to certain route in certain FE game. Yeah, that's probably why that route is the only canon route for me. Interesting. Curse of Genealogy indeed)
SO that's what I appreciate about the plot of Genealogy. You get to see historic war drama, and not Conan the Barbarian battling Dark Evil Overlord while a harlem of 100500 waifus tag along. Urgh... Waifu Emblem is the worst for me. I legit almost lost all hope after playing Awakening. Even though it was Awakening that saved the series. Does that qualify me as Kaga elitist, I wonder))) 

Now onto actual units. They too are big part of me loving this game. Unlike other "proper" FEs, you always get to deploy everyone you got. Because why not? Why would part of your army sit in a base and chill while you're fighting for your life against hordes of enemies? That's the part that really gets me in other FEs. Why do I have to scroll through 30, 40, 50 units and choose 5 to deploy? Why not let everyone go? And then I can decide if I prioritize some units or not.
That is of course impossible on tiny maps. With total of 15 enemies, there's no reason to have 30 allies. A shame, really. In Shadow Dragon you immediately get 3 axe fighters who are basically the same except growth rates. Why would I prioritize one of them when game doesn't tell me the growth rates? So do I take all 3 on any mission? Do I even need them for anything? They join my army and never get deployed, eating and lodging at my expense till I forget even their names. Not a fan.
Berwick, on the other hand, handles this dillema very well. It makes total sense from the plot perspective that not everyone can go on any mission. That it really depends on any given mission. And while you do get access to like 20 units fairly early on, half are mercenaries. You need a certain unit for a job? You hire them. Each time. Makes sense. Don't want to spend money or use them? Go on, try doing everything with your official subordinates, that's a legit option.
In Genealogy armies march across the lands. 15~20 enemy units, in a formation, with mixed classes who support each other, bearing down on your defense line is very much a thing in Genealogy. Not only maps are big, you feel the scale of conflict. Trying to engage in combat at different areas requires certain number of units. There are many things to do on a map. And again, you don't have to do it in one sitting. A chapter is a story arc in itself. Take your time, use everyone, spend a couple days.
Not to mention how every unit is unique and has places they shine at. And they interact with each other. Support convos were born in Genealogy even though they're not really support convos of later FE games.
Memorable and unique units, each with a purpose to play, with their own place in grand scheme of things. The interactions directly affect the latter part too. Even the game balance. So much that Kaga balanced the game to be at best challenging difficulty when you 

Spoiler

make sure that no units become lovers in the first half, apart from auto pairs. There are exactly two auto pairs, one is a thing from prologue, other happens in chapter 1. Keep everyone else single, and you'll enter the Kaga difficulty.
No one does it purposefully on their blind runs. Unless they're quite bad at the game and can't keep everyone alive or fail to recruit units. Then they kinda have no choice. Can't have a lover when the unit is dead or was never part of the army))
It also offers a ton of customization. You can have dozens or replays, each time with very different army as the result of changing up and experimenting with the pairings.

 

Let's look at my favourite mechanics now. The trading system. Love it. No more frantic searching for certain items, no more of keeping track of who got spare weapons, who got potions, buying iron swords just in case, etc. Number of items is very limited, and since they all can be repaired, there's no need for spare weapons. There's also no need for cheap weapons to grind the proficiency skills. Because the skills change only with promotions and are set depending on lineage and class. Genealogy version of Adel and Leon don't struggle with spears, they simply can't equip highest ranked ones. They don't even need to.
Different mechanic encourages you to keep using just one weapon anyway, so there's no need to pass weapons around as some start to break. That said, it does help when you can pass certain weapons around, so you gotta pay the price. Same with bracelets. Genealogy bracelets give +5 to stats. That's huge. Cap is 30 for any stat, and classes like Palladins reach only 22 strength, for example. Imagine you could casually pass such rings around? Any unit could become a walking god of destruction. Well, not really. Relics are a thing, so fully boosted Ardan with capped stats will have 0 chances against a certain bard, for example. But it makes sense in the lore. A commoner should not be able to even scratch someone with a relic that turned around tide of war.
Units get their uniqueness also through everyone using different weapons. You can tell what weapon is made for whom. No need to haul a bunch of weapons around and juggle them as different units get deployed at different maps. Everyone will have their own weapon.
Being able to pass anything only through pawnshop makes you pay attention to warfunds as well. Which are personal. Yes. Everyone has their own purse and repair their own weapons, buy their own equipment. Lovers can give money to each other. Thieves can give money to everyone, but the ways you earn it are limited.

Which takes me to financial aspect. Having personal purses alleviates my worries that someday I might run out of money to equip my army. Strong units cannot run out. They earn their own share. At the same time, financial management is of utmost importance in ranked runs. In order to make full use of everything available, you need a lot of money for everyone. Even for those who can't really earn it, or can't earn enough. The cap is 50k per unit. Certain rings cost 40k. To fully repair a relic costs 40k (if you actually used up all charges). When you sell an item you get 50% of its cost, so mindless passing around of the only Brave Lance in the game will cripple your wallet real soon. Things like that.
Each unit has their own financial struggle, but if you can solve it through strategic planning, the benefits are immense. You can also choose to not be a money grubber and go with the flow. You'll still beat the game. Except half of your units will be so much behind, you'll struggle juggling multiple frontlines with a handful of aces. Who are not immortal by any means.

Speaking of procuring the finances, we get to the Arena. I love meself Genealogy Arena. It's not infinite. You don't die when you lose. And that's the main source of income and even exp for some units. Each chapter (except Prologue) has its own Arena. Total of 7 rounds per unit. You win, you get paued, you get to challenge the next round opponent. You can also judge how well any unit might do on that map by how far they can go. Final two rounds are pretty much boss class units, so if you can beat all 7 rounds, you're looking good. Can't beat even the second round? No worries, go out and fight, level up, get some gear, challenge later. You can do it at any time during the chapter. It's very useful for certain obscure things as well. That said, right after completing an All A run, I'm so sick of arena I wish it never existed))) Because 60% of such run is purely Arena with hundreds of resets and literally hours spent on it. But that's a ranked run. There's absolutely no need to go that far since you won't probably even know certain techniques on your blind run. Even GBA FEs had abusable Arenas in that sense. You couldn't really do that in Shadow Dragon and Mystery of The Emblem cuz losing a fight would mean resetting the whole chapter.

Combat mechanics. I like them. It's really a mix of unit skills, weapons and stats. Simply having high stats won't make a unit an ace, good weapons alone can't compensate (even if one could equip them) and skills won't carry you through if stats are too low. So a good mix of those things creates a very strong unit. Most units will have one or two available. Either skills, stats or good weapon. Using their strong sides makes up for lacking in other areas. You especially feel the blessing of skills if you mess up or do it the Kaga way. Suddenly what you thought was a meme unit starts to gain color and faintly shine in your eyes))
Any unit can become a beast. Because Genealogy promotion is a thing of it's own. Ever seen a +7 to strength on a promotion? Bet you haven't. Promoted Ardan is unkillable without any relics or even rings. A thief who kept dealing 1 damage to opponents suddenly becomes an A class frontline fighter. Pegasus Knight suddenly gains a whole new role it can play. Etc. It takes time and effort, but the rewarding feeling is worth it. No items required for promotions too. Just gotta get to level 20.
I hear people complain that in Genealogy its the weapons doing the combat, not the characters. I disagree. Relics are overwhelming, but each one has only one user. Some units don't need no relics because of the skill sets. Some weapons can surpass relics in usefulness and even damage if you plan for it, but you gotta have the units who are able to really make those weapons shine in the first place. From a ranked run perspective, Slim Sword you buy in chapter 1 is the best weapon of Genealogy overall. But no one would be able to see that on the blind playthrough. Even you guys, who just now read about it, you don't know yet what I meant by that statement. And most likely won't see what I meant untill at least the endgame. So that's not a spoiler)))

What else? Talked about story, units, economical aspect, combat mechanics... Skills? Maybe?
Some skills are unique. Some are almost broken (I'm looking at you Miracle, not the Meteor Sword). Some are essential. Like Pursuit. You played Berwick, you know that Pursuit is a skill that can really change up a unit, right? Same with Genealogy. It's far more common, but still, not everyone has it. You can actually have an archer with 0 skills, including pursuit. Imagine that. And that archer will be the only archer for your army for at least 3 chapters. Makes you really appreciate the meme archer from Prologue. Cuz that guy has Pursuit and Charge. Even the abysmal stats growth can't take that away)))

This is pretty much what I could talk about without spoiling too many things.
Huge maps are good for Genealogy, they won't work in other FE games, love them. No passing items without paying for it is essential for Genealogy, love it. No potions, very much appreciate it. All units get to always be part of the fighting, terrific. All units have great potentials, can pour love onto any unit and be truly rewarded. High customization and ties to story, huge replay value. Lore directly reflected in combat mechanics, very cool. Not just a simple heroic saga, but a drama about human foolishness and how circumstances can really dictate things, right up my alley.
Oh, and not too many complex mechanics. I still can't truly enjoy or continue playing Thracia 776 cuz I just can't get the feel for that Body Size, Holding, Capturing, etc. And I don't even get to have all my units always be there. Sad. And maps are too small. It feels insignificant, like ants crawling around some sand box, even though it's supposed to be quite a major endeavor. I want my epic grand scale if I'm fighting on continent of Jugdral)))

I guess you can see now how "proper" FE is something I have trouble with)))

Edited by IshiharaS
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1 hour ago, IshiharaS said:

Genealogy talk

Thanks a lot for the rundown! I already knew some of these things, but you provided an interesting perspective on the game. I'm still not certain if this is a game for me, personally, but at this point I suppose there's only one way to find out. Currently I'm a bit busy with a Thracia replay, but perhaps when I finish it... We'll see.

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3 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Currently I'm a bit busy with a Thracia replay, but perhaps when I finish it... We'll see.

Ah, I haven't considered you already knew Thracia. The more reasons to try Genealogy)))
See Lief's parents in action, get to know Finn in his younger days, get to know Travant even better, Altena, Corple, Brigitte, etc. Learn how the hell did things come to the starting point of Thracia 776, finally get to know what happens after. Lachesis, her brother, Beowulf, all the characters you  most likely heard about. See what Thracia looks like and why the things are the way they are. Man, you got a lot to look forward to))
Ishtal awaits too.

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2 minutes ago, IshiharaS said:

Ah, I haven't considered you already knew Thracia. The more reasons to try Genealogy)))
See Lief's parents in action, get to know Finn in his younger days, get to know Travant even better, Altena, Corple, Brigitte, etc. Learn how the hell did things come to the starting point of Thracia 776, finally get to know what happens after. Lachesis, her brother, Beowulf, all the characters you  most likely heard about. See what Thracia looks like and why the things are the way they are. Man, you got a lot to look forward to))

Hah! Well, like I said in a prior post, I do know the bigger events of the story of Genealogy. Mostly gen 1. In fact, one of my very first experiences with FE was a Youtube video that related the story of Genealogy's first generation. I discovered the series through spoilers. How nice.

That being said, I don't know the smaller details, and all of gen 2 is a big blur, so I do have quite a bit to discover. I can only hope I end up enjoying the game! Thanks again for the write-up. Always nice to see such passion for a game.

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Man, I really need to play the Sagas...

 

Anyway, I voted for FE5 for "best game". If the question was "what is your favorite Kaga era game?" I would vote FE4. The plot is unmatched for an FE game, but it has real issues with it's gameplay. It's all justified within the story, of course, but in my eyes that's not an excuse for being a boring game. If you are a Kaga stan then you're going to love the more janky parts of it, like inventory management and the Pursuit skill.

FE5 on the contrary... I totally undestand what makes people like it. The story is intertwined with FE4's (and really good in its own right) and the gameplay-story integration is the best it's ever been. Capture and rescue are very fun mechanics.

But like... I understand it, but I don't feel it. I just don't have fun playing it. Maybe the FE5 fans can help me out with this.

 

EDIT: @IshiharaS, thank you for the amazing Genealogy write-up.

Edited by Franp3
god damn that fe4 write-up.
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2 hours ago, Franp3 said:

Man, I really need to play the Sagas...

 

Anyway, I voted for FE5 for "best game". If the question was "what is your favorite Kaga era game?" I would vote FE4.

Ah, a fellow victim of the Genealogy Syndrome))
If I haven't tried Berwick, I would've voted and written the same. Thracia the best, Genealogy the favourite. Try Berwick. It will pleasantly surprise you if you get through first 2~3 maps without quitting. Quitting not because those maps are somehow insanely difficult, but because it plays in a very distinct and different style.
I'm enjoying my second attempt. First attempt was years ago, and I quit after maybe 5 turns)) Now I'm 30 hours in and liking it more and more. Still only about a 30% completion. It takes time))
What I've seen of the translation patch is high quality. Immense work was done. But it really changed too much of the dialogue in my opinion. Half translation, half fan fiction. It's still good, just not in line with original writing in many places. Mostly presents characters in a very different manner. Which you won't notice if you only play the patch.

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9 hours ago, Franp3 said:

Man, I really need to play the Sagas...

You absolutely do, man. You absolutely do.

...But Berwick more than the others. As fond as I am of Vestaria and TearRing, they just cannot compare to the masterpiece that is Berwick. Like @IshiharaS said, though, the different mechanics might come as a shock at first. Push through it - you won't regret it.

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i actually voted gaiden because being limited by the NES is its only mark against the fact it has a bunch of fun gameplay ideas and an ambitious plot for an 8-bit game. map design isn't the best and the ambitious plot falls short at points, but are either of those problems when genealogy is winning the poll? i don't think so. sure, not much of a point to actually play it now that echoes exists, but 3 out of 5 of these games were remade anyway.

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