The Ethics of Marth Embarking

[ping]

OK, but what IRL conflict should we compare to Fëanor's Kinslaying to? Or the Krillin-Gohan intervention on planet Namek? I'm sure we can fit some nazi comparisons somewhere, for maximum controversity.

For real though, the real life comparisons so far seem to serve more as a mean to throw down some !!!Hot Takes!!! because none of them are actually comparable to Marth's journey.

[Jotari]

9 hours ago, Maof06 said:

Is it better to be oppressed by dragons than by other humans?

It's not a question of whether it's better, it's whether it's significantly worse enough to justify enacting an armed conflict where thousands would die and be left destitute.

7 hours ago, Shrow said:

I'm not super familiar with story but from what I understood, Marth unified Archanean nations. Y'know through peace?
Medeus's plan is to rule the region with an evil fist. Corruption everywhere, Lots of poor, very little food. An oppressive rule with or without dragons regardless.

There's a reason Marth is called the "Hero-King". Marth's war brought peace on the whole region for many years.

That was his second war. Peace from his first war crumbled in a handful of years because they wanted a sequel.

 

 

[Venger_06]

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

It's not a question of whether it's better, it's whether it's significantly worse enough to justify enacting an armed conflict where thousands would die and be left destitute.

IMO it is, but as you guys said, Medeus' plan for Archanea are too vague to draw a conclusion.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

On 2/4/2021 at 6:39 PM, Jotari said:

That was his second war. Peace from his first war crumbled in a handful of years because they wanted a sequel.

Honestly, I'm really not a fan of when a sequel comes out of nowhere, to a story that stands perfectly fine on its own. "Hey, remember how you traveled the continent, amassed an army, and killed Gharnef and Medeus a couple years ago? Well, they're back and even worse this time. What's stopping them from coming back to life again? Presumably, the writers getting bored with Archanea, and moving on to a new continent."

[Jotari]

23 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Honestly, I'm really not a fan of when a sequel comes out of nowhere, to a story that stands perfectly fine on its own. "Hey, remember how you traveled the continent, amassed an army, and killed Gharnef and Medeus a couple years ago? Well, they're back and even worse this time. What's stopping them from coming back to life again? Presumably, the writers getting bored with Archanea, and moving on to a new continent."

Oh yeah, Mystery is like the worst version of this of pretty much any media out there. Every single enemy from the first game shirt of Jiol is retconned back to life. And Hardin, the potential new enemy lacks the tragedy to his fall to darkness because they've never taken the opportunity in either remake to actually develop him as a character.  I also don't like this aspect of Mystery as it pins Gaiden down to happening in between the three year time skip of the Archanea games, which makes Zeke's rise to prominence in Rigel utterly ridiculous. Like I know the country prides itself on strength, but the only explanation for this absolute no one to become a prominent general in a matter of months is that he was sleeping with Rudolf on the side (though it does make more sense of Valentia is a lowly populated small island rather than a continent *cough* *cough*)

Edited February 7, 2021 by Jotari

[Interdimensional Observer]

6 hours ago, Jotari said:

which makes Zeke's rise to prominence in Rigel utterly ridiculous. Like I know the country prides itself on strength, but the only explanation for this absolute no one to become a prominent general in a matter of months is that he was sleeping with Rudolf on the side (though it does make more sense of Valentia is a lowly populated small island rather than a continent *cough* *cough*)

I was just reading that the adult male noble population in a county of 1.2 million, rather amazingly, was a mere 600 belonging to 400 families. Which enabled a 28-year old to become chancellor, well, that and family ties and being a talented nerd.

Yes, this is an extreme case, but it apparently was real.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

2 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I was just reading that the adult male noble population in a county of 1.2 million, rather amazingly, was a mere 600 belonging to 400 families. Which enabled a 28-year old to become chancellor, well, that and family ties and being a talented nerd.

Yes, this is an extreme case, but it apparently was real.

Still, Zeke wouldn't be a noble in Valentia. He has no family connections, and it's not like the Duma Faithful are vouching for him. He has some mean ability, to be sure, but it's not clear he'd have time to rise to a position of General.

10 hours ago, Jotari said:

Oh yeah, Mystery is like the worst version of this of pretty much any media out there. Every single enemy from the first game shirt of Jiol is retconned back to life. And Hardin, the potential new enemy lacks the tragedy to his fall to darkness because they've never taken the opportunity in either remake to actually develop him as a character.  I also don't like this aspect of Mystery as it pins Gaiden down to happening in between the three year time skip of the Archanea games, which makes Zeke's rise to prominence in Rigel utterly ridiculous. Like I know the country prides itself on strength, but the only explanation for this absolute no one to become a prominent general in a matter of months is that he was sleeping with Rudolf on the side (though it does make more sense of Valentia is a lowly populated small island rather than a continent *cough* *cough*)

Yeah, I wonder what would've been better - setting Gaiden a while after FE3, or making FE1 - FE3 a longer time gap? The latter might be undesirable, just in that you'd have to remake everyone's portraits - but it could give FE3 a more convincing backstory. The former, though, would have the advantage of not requiring Camoo/Zeke/Sirius to cross the ocean three times in as many years. And it'd be cool to see the Pegasus Sisters "aged up" somewhat.

[Samz707]

4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Still, Zeke wouldn't be a noble in Valentia. He has no family connections, and it's not like the Duma Faithful are vouching for him. He has some mean ability, to be sure, but it's not clear he'd have time to rise to a position of General.

 

Honestly I'm kinda surprised Valentia Accord didn't add some sort of minor rebellion/conflict to Rigel that Zeke could have essentially "proved" himself in or gotten the previous generals of Rigel killed or something leaving a need for new generals. (or just any event where people would be getting promoted more rapidly than usual due to a sudden lack of generals.)

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Still, Zeke wouldn't be a noble in Valentia. He has no family connections, and it's not like the Duma Faithful are vouching for him. He has some mean ability, to be sure, but it's not clear he'd have time to rise to a position of General.

Yeah, I wonder what would've been better - setting Gaiden a while after FE3, or making FE1 - FE3 a longer time gap? The latter might be undesirable, just in that you'd have to remake everyone's portraits - but it could give FE3 a more convincing backstory. The former, though, would have the advantage of not requiring Camoo/Zeke/Sirius to cross the ocean three times in as many years. And it'd be cool to see the Pegasus Sisters "aged up" somewhat.

It was quite a few years from conception at that point, but I think by far the best solution on the Zeke front would have been to make Gaiden exist in a an outrealm where the time stream follows different rules. So Camus's life in Rigel was a few years longer than his absence in Archanea. Course it just so happens the game that solidified the idea of outrealms is also the one to very definitively show that it absolutely is a continent in the same world as Archanea.