How could Manfroy be sure?

[James Marshall]

I was reading the story on Fire Embed Wiki and 3 things bothered me. What are your thoughts?

The 1st is how could Manfroy be sure that any 1st born child of Diadora and Arvis's would have Major Lopto blood, when its the 1st son that gets the throne and their are 3 Major Bloodlines to get, so what if it was The 3rd Child or hell-forbid(as I think Manfroy would put it), A Girl gets Major Lopto or they have 3 sons and The 3rd son gets Major Lopto

The 2nd is that, in the games backstory, all of the previous vessels of The Dark God Lopto have either been male or had male names, then all being male is very unlikely, but it could be explained by Lopto using his god-like powers to guarantee that all of his vessels were male

The 3rd is that how can Manfroy guarantee that it will be a boy and not a girl that has major Lopto Blood, after all it could happen and Julia's Grandfather insisted that A Boy took the throne, so what if the 1st born Boy had Major Fala or Major Naga

User Info: JMISBEST

[Gordin]

Because Arvis already had 1 kid beforehand that had major Fala blood (Saias), so that wasn't a question anymore. It was Major Naga vs Major Loptyr and they had twins so naturally they got both. 

[Acacia Sgt]

Hm, I went to check, but neither wiki states about firstborns, and script only states that by uniting the bloodline is bound to give them the vessel they need. Still, Thracia shows the Cult knew quite well about Saias and his parentage, so they likely figured the Major Fjalar was already dealt with.

The Loptr vessel not ending being the heir would be a trivial matter. I mean, just by giving Julius the tome he committed matricide and almost committed fratricide... and it was all kept wrapped up. Simply put, if the Major Loptr vessel hadn't been the heir... nothing some good old Court Intrigue can't solve.

I don't think whether they're a boy or girl really mattered too much in the grand scheme of things. If they end up being the only one capable of inheriting, then that's that. Which is why Dierdre having Seliph before her kidnapping threw a wrench into the Cult's plan, since the people could rally under him as an alternative to Julius. Had Seliph been a girl, she'd still be seen as better her than the current regime.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Acacia Sgt

[indigoasis]

Manfroy read up on FE4 Holy Blood mechanics, and thankfully, so have I.

As I understand it, here's how Holy Blood works (and I have no qualms with over-complicating it because that's exactly what I'm going to do).

• The firstborn of a Major Holy Blood holder will inherit that Major Holy Blood. Any subsequent children will inherit Minor Holy Blood.
  • This can be seen in Gen 2 with Altena and Leif; Altena is Leif's older sister, and Quan (their father) holds Major Njörun Holy Blood. Altena was the firstborn, so she inherited the Major Holy Blood, whereas Leif inherited Minor Holy Blood. (It should also be noted that both of them inherited Minor Baldr Holy Blood from their mother, Ethlyn, which means that any Minor Holy Blood will be passed down regardless... unless...).
• If two people with the same Minor Holy Blood have children, both kids will inherit Major Holy Blood. Essentially, two Minors make a Major. This is exactly what occurs with Arvis and Deirdre when combining their Minor Loptr Holy Blood. These Minor Holy Blood shenanigans can also be done by the player if they were to pair up Ayra and Chulainn (which results in Ayra's kids being able to wield Balmung, which can normally only be wielded by Shannan since he has Major Od Holy Blood).
  • A similar situation can occur when, if a Major Holy Blood holder has children with someone with the same type of Holy Blood (but Minor), both children will inherit Major Holy Blood anyway. This can be done by the player if they pair up Silvia and Claud.
  • If no Minor Holy Blood is combined with the same type of Holy Blood, it will simply pass on as Minor.

In the cases of Julius and Julia, both of them only inherited Minor Fjalar Holy Blood because Saias inherited Major Fjalar Holy Blood from Arvis (he had a fling with a woman named Aida). Julius inherited Major Loptr Holy Blood from the combination of Minor Holy Blood of his parents. What's interesting about Julia is that, despite being Deirdre's third child, she was the one to inherit her Major Naga Holy Blood, which may indicate that certain types of Major Holy Blood take precedent in inheritance over others (as can be seen with Seliph inheriting Major Baldr Holy Blood instead of Major Naga Holy Blood. It may have something to do with paternal inheritance taking priority over maternal inheritance... it doesn't really matter though because Deirdre and Arvis had twins). If Julia had been Sigurd's child, she would have inherited Major Naga Holy Blood and Minor Baldr Holy Blood.

Getting into the story aspects of it, Deirdre and Arvis actually share the same mother, Cigyun, albeit they have different fathers. Cigyun most likely had Minor Loptr Holy Blood, because if she had Major, the Loptr Cult's plans could have happened WAY sooner. Anyway, as for Loptr vessels being male or female, I don't really think that it matters. In Awakening, Robin can be male or female, and they're Grima's vessel no matter what. Same deal with Byleth being male or female and their shenanigans with Sothis; it doesn't matter.

If I've made any mistakes, please let me know.

[Fëanen]

The history of the Loptr Emperors is itself kind of confusing. 17 emperors in 200 years does not sound like a direct line, since there's an average of 11 years between emperor. In that sort of scenario you'd expect succession among siblings, uncles, cousins etc. but no other bloodline produces major blood so regularly, without couples with the same holy blood having kids it's usually 1 heir per generation. So either some of the Emperors Galle weren't actual hosts, major Loptr blood is way more common than the others and can appear in multiple children unaided, or there was some sort of practice of royal incest that enabled multiple members of a generation to have major blood. Either way, I do wonder if some of them were actually empresses.

After thinking about it, I think Suzuki was very sensible to cut the last Galle down from XVII to VII in the novel. 

Back to the topic at hand, I think it's possible that having 2 minor blood parents may make the firstborn guaranteed to have the major blood of that line. If so, Manfroy probably wasn't counting on Deirdre having twins and would've been much happier just getting Julius and letting the Heim blood die out. The heir being a boy is a more dubious matter, I can't imagine any way he could've foreseen, guaranteed, or planned for that. Though even assuming a female couldn't rule in her own right because reasons, ruling through her puppet husband wouldn't be a big deal for Manfroy any more than Julius being the shadow emperor towards the end of Arvis' reign was.

Edit: post above me popped up while I was writing this. Only thing I have to add is that per Kaga, who inherits holy blood is generally random (hence the kings of Augusty not having any holy blood at all despite being the senior line from Hezul), so Seliph got Baldr blood and not Naga blood because he did. Note that Sylvia's eldest child Lene does not receive major holy blood if she marries Lewyn.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Fëanen

[Eltosian Kadath]

On the main question asked, I am in full agreement with Arcadia Sgt, that all that matter was they produced an Major Lopto blooded child, as that child could (and would) kill his way to the throne at an early age.

 

1 hour ago, indigoasis said:

 

As I understand it, here's how Holy Blood works (and I have no qualms with over-complicating it because that's exactly what I'm going to do).

• The firstborn of a Major Holy Blood holder will inherit that Major Holy Blood. Any subsequent children will inherit Minor Holy Blood.
  • This can be seen in Gen 2 with Altena and Leif; Altena is Leif's older sister, and Quan (their father) holds Major Njörun Holy Blood. Altena was the firstborn, so she inherited the Major Holy Blood, whereas Leif inherited Minor Holy Blood. (It should also be noted that both of them inherited Minor Baldr Holy Blood from their mother, Ethlyn, which means that any Minor Holy Blood will be passed down regardless... unless...).

There is an obscure bit of lore that contradicts this, in that the youngest daughter of Hezul is the one that inherited the Major Holy Blood of the line, hence why Eldigan was the wielder of Misteltein, and not the kings of Agustria.

 

[Acacia Sgt]

28 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

There is an obscure bit of lore that contradicts this, in that the youngest daughter of Hezul is the one that inherited the Major Holy Blood of the line, hence why Eldigan was the wielder of Misteltein, and not the kings of Agustria.

Adding to this, we don't know when did the daughter's older siblings were born. Being born before Hezul got the Holy Blood, and only the daughter being born after, could easily explain why the direct line of descent doesn't have the Holy Blood.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Acacia Sgt

[Jotari]

He doesn't have to be sure. He just needs the one kid with major lopt and can then dispatch of the others via "accidents".

6 hours ago, indigoasis said:

Manfroy read up on FE4 Holy Blood mechanics, and thankfully, so have I.

As I understand it, here's how Holy Blood works (and I have no qualms with over-complicating it because that's exactly what I'm going to do).

• The firstborn of a Major Holy Blood holder will inherit that Major Holy Blood. Any subsequent children will inherit Minor Holy Blood.
  • This can be seen in Gen 2 with Altena and Leif; Altena is Leif's older sister, and Quan (their father) holds Major Njörun Holy Blood. Altena was the firstborn, so she inherited the Major Holy Blood, whereas Leif inherited Minor Holy Blood. (It should also be noted that both of them inherited Minor Baldr Holy Blood from their mother, Ethlyn, which means that any Minor Holy Blood will be passed down regardless... unless...).
• If two people with the same Minor Holy Blood have children, both kids will inherit Major Holy Blood. Essentially, two Minors make a Major. This is exactly what occurs with Arvis and Deirdre when combining their Minor Loptr Holy Blood. These Minor Holy Blood shenanigans can also be done by the player if they were to pair up Ayra and Chulainn (which results in Ayra's kids being able to wield Balmung, which can normally only be wielded by Shannan since he has Major Od Holy Blood).
  • A similar situation can occur when, if a Major Holy Blood holder has children with someone with the same type of Holy Blood (but Minor), both children will inherit Major Holy Blood anyway. This can be done by the player if they pair up Silvia and Claud.
  • If no Minor Holy Blood is combined with the same type of Holy Blood, it will simply pass on as Minor.

In the cases of Julius and Julia, both of them only inherited Minor Fjalar Holy Blood because Saias inherited Major Fjalar Holy Blood from Arvis (he had a fling with a woman named Aida). Julius inherited Major Loptr Holy Blood from the combination of Minor Holy Blood of his parents. What's interesting about Julia is that, despite being Deirdre's third child, she was the one to inherit her Major Naga Holy Blood, which may indicate that certain types of Major Holy Blood take precedent in inheritance over others (as can be seen with Seliph inheriting Major Baldr Holy Blood instead of Major Naga Holy Blood. It may have something to do with paternal inheritance taking priority over maternal inheritance... it doesn't really matter though because Deirdre and Arvis had twins). If Julia had been Sigurd's child, she would have inherited Major Naga Holy Blood and Minor Baldr Holy Blood.

Getting into the story aspects of it, Deirdre and Arvis actually share the same mother, Cigyun, albeit they have different fathers. Cigyun most likely had Minor Loptr Holy Blood, because if she had Major, the Loptr Cult's plans could have happened WAY sooner. Anyway, as for Loptr vessels being male or female, I don't really think that it matters. In Awakening, Robin can be male or female, and they're Grima's vessel no matter what. Same deal with Byleth being male or female and their shenanigans with Sothis; it doesn't matter.

If I've made any mistakes, please let me know.

Well one mistake is putting too much trust in the in game mechanics to explain the plot. Because the game solidly has the view of "STFU Holy Blood works however Kaga wants it to." Most noteably Lewyn's uncles lack Holy Blood entirely, minor or major, despite being brothers to a major holy blood wielder (unless Lewyn's paternal grandmother had an affair after giving birth to a major holy blood heir and the uncles aren't related to Lewyn at all!). Andorey's son Scipio also doesn't have any holy blood despite being the child of a minor, which isn't as major an issue as minor holy blood lines eventually fading away makes some sort of sense (well except Minor Lopt or Maria's line which managed to survive in seclusion for hundreds of years). And there are two lines of Major Odo blood, not counting pairing Arya and Chuculainn. Galzus and Mareeta apparently have major Odo blood...maybe, they have the mark of Odo on their body and I can't recall any instance in either game where people with minor holy blood are confirmed or denied the presence of a mark. And I think one pairing possible in the game does give the younger sibling major blood in order to pass down the holy weapon. Coirpre, I think?

Edited February 4, 2021 by Jotari

[Axie]

8 hours ago, indigoasis said:

What's interesting about Julia is that, despite being Deirdre's third child, she was the one to inherit her Major Naga Holy Blood, which may indicate that certain types of Major Holy Blood take precedent in inheritance over others

this is superoverthinking it but maybe julia came first at conception, so major naga was out before the conception of julius by a few moments, freeing up the minor + minor combination.

but that can't be because manfroy just wasn't counting on julia being born at all.  we also can't say it's because of gender because julia, a girl, got major naga from her mother dierdre, who got major naga from her father kurth.

maybe it's the conflicting holy bloods that made twins be born to begin with. both too strong to be overpowered by each other. very not scientific, but very kaga.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Axie

[Punished Dayni]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Galzus and Mareeta apparently have major Odo blood...maybe, they have the mark of Odo on their body and I can't recall any instance in either game where people with minor holy blood are confirmed or denied the presence of a mark.

There's definitely an indication they've got Major, as it's confirmed that someone's seen the mark, combined with there being no indication that minor bloods show a mark.

10 hours ago, James Marshall said:

The 1st is how could Manfroy be sure that any 1st born child of Diadora and Arvis's would have Major Lopto blood, when its the 1st son that gets the throne and their are 3 Major Bloodlines to get, so what if it was The 3rd Child or hell-forbid(as I think Manfroy would put it), A Girl gets Major Lopto or they have 3 sons and The 3rd son gets Major Lopto

As the games insist one major per generation, Saias was already there and known about so they could assume 50/50. This isn't necessarily the case before Thracia.

10 hours ago, James Marshall said:

The 2nd is that, in the games backstory, all of the previous vessels of The Dark God Lopto have either been male or had male names, then all being male is very unlikely, but it could be explained by Lopto using his god-like powers to guarantee that all of his vessels were male

10 hours ago, James Marshall said:

The 3rd is that how can Manfroy guarantee that it will be a boy and not a girl that has major Lopto Blood, after all it could happen and Julia's Grandfather insisted that A Boy took the throne, so what if the 1st born Boy had Major Fala or Major Naga

I don't have anything to explain how they'd guarantee the gender of the inheritor, or how every single Lopt emperor was male. the situation with Galle's weird anyway, partly because of how fast they all seemed to burn themselves out.

People have already mentioned court intrigue and let's be fair, there's every indication that this would be something done for it, after all it wouldn't be the first royal the Loptous has had killed. Besides that emperor's dead by the time the tome would be inherited and I suspect that could be worked around.

[Acacia Sgt]

On the subject of Galzus and Mareeta's Holy Blood, Galzus's mother also had Major Od, if I recall correctly. Thing is, she is siblings to Mariccle and Ayra... who are half-siblings. Which means this third sibling can also be half to either, or both. Not to mention, we don't know who between her and Ayra is the younger or older sister. So there can be a few ways of how she got Major but Ayra didn't. We know from Chulainn that Sophara's ruling family are a cadet branch to the main Isaachian royal family, so there can be more and Mananan got involved with at least one, explaining this situation.

[indigoasis]

14 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

There is an obscure bit of lore that contradicts this, in that the youngest daughter of Hezul is the one that inherited the Major Holy Blood of the line, hence why Eldigan was the wielder of Misteltein, and not the kings of Agustria.

9 hours ago, Jotari said:

Well one mistake is putting too much trust in the in game mechanics to explain the plot. Because the game solidly has the view of "STFU Holy Blood works however Kaga wants it to." Most noteably Lewyn's uncles lack Holy Blood entirely, minor or major, despite being brothers to a major holy blood wielder (unless Lewyn's paternal grandmother had an affair after giving birth to a major holy blood heir and the uncles aren't related to Lewyn at all!). Andorey's son Scipio also doesn't have any holy blood despite being the child of a minor, which isn't as major an issue as minor holy blood lines eventually fading away makes some sort of sense (well except Minor Lopt or Maria's line which managed to survive in seclusion for hundreds of years). And there are two lines of Major Odo blood, not counting pairing Arya and Chuculainn. Galzus and Mareeta apparently have major Odo blood...maybe, they have the mark of Odo on their body and I can't recall any instance in either game where people with minor holy blood are confirmed or denied the presence of a mark. And I think one pairing possible in the game does give the younger sibling major blood in order to pass down the holy weapon. Coirpre, I think?

I'm a fraud and I made mistakes, don't look at me!

Thanks for correcting me! I really do appreciate it. I guess perhaps Holy Blood may be more like Crests from Three Houses than I thought (or Crests are more like Holy Blood?... either way works; Crests were modeled after Holy Blood, anyway. They aren't one-to-one the same, obviously, with Crests being way more random, but they're loosely similar).

Also, the idea of Lewyn's uncles not actually being related to Lewyn is interesting. They don't look similar to him or possess similar traits at all (FE4 is trigger-happy when it comes to reusing portraits, though, so that's probably why).

And yeah, pairing Silvia and Claud gives both Lene and Coirpre Major Holy Blood, allowing Coirpre to use the Valkyrie Staff (Lene can techincally use it, too, but she's not in the right class). This is because Silvia has Minor Bragi Holy Blood, and Claud has Major Bragi Holy Blood. The way I see it, Major Holy Blood is passed down to the first child (which would be Lene in this case), and then the Minor Holy Blood that the next kid (Coirpre) would inherit from Claud combines with Silvia's Minor Holy Blood, turning it into Major Holy Blood. I love Holy Blood shenanigans like that.

7 hours ago, Axie said:

this is superoverthinking it but maybe julia came first at conception, so major naga was out before the conception of julius by a few moments, freeing up the minor + minor combination.

but that can't be because manfroy just wasn't counting on julia being born at all.  we also can't say it's because of gender because julia, a girl, got major naga from her mother dierdre, who got major naga from her father kurth.

maybe it's the conflicting holy bloods that made twins be born to begin with. both too strong to be overpowered by each other. very not scientific, but very kaga.

Julia is the younger twin, but the idea of the conflicting Major Holy Bloods causing twins is interesting! It should also be noted that both of them inherited Minor Fjalar Holy Blood, and I don't think that there are any instances in the game where there is a character with 3 types of Holy Blood, so each of them inheriting conflicting Holy Blood that the other does not possess is an interesting (and intended) parallel.

Edited February 4, 2021 by indigoasis
how tf did I miss putting an e after lov

[Eltosian Kadath]

10 minutes ago, indigoasis said:

 

Thanks for correcting me! I really do appreciate it. I guess perhaps Holy Blood may be more like Crests from Three Houses than I thought (or Crests are more like Holy Blood?... either way works; Crests were modeled after Holy Blood, anyway. They aren't one-to-one the same, obviously, with Crests being way more random, but they're loosely similar).

I honestly think Holy Blood, the Crests of Three Houses, and the Brand of the Exalt (and Brand of Grima) from Awakening are all the same basic idea...

[indigoasis]

3 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

I honestly think Holy Blood, the Crests of Three Houses, and the Brand of the Exalt (and Brand of Grima) from Awakening are all the same basic idea...

I know they are, lol. I was just saying how Holy Blood might be more random than I initially thought, what with the evidence behind Eldigan's ancestry and Lewyn's uncles. Crests are fairly random with how they're inherited, and I didn't think that about Holy Blood due to how the game's mechanics worked with inheritance for the Gen 2 units.

[Jotari]

12 hours ago, Axie said:

this is superoverthinking it but maybe julia came first at conception, so major naga was out before the conception of julius by a few moments, freeing up the minor + minor combination.

but that can't be because manfroy just wasn't counting on julia being born at all.  we also can't say it's because of gender because julia, a girl, got major naga from her mother dierdre, who got major naga from her father kurth.

maybe it's the conflicting holy bloods that made twins be born to begin with. both too strong to be overpowered by each other. very not scientific, but very kaga.

Yeah, but then what about Baldo holy blood? Because that superseded the Naga holy blood at Seliph's conception. So is Baldo an even stronger holy blood than the super demon dragon and the super god dragon that tried to stop him?

1 hour ago, indigoasis said:

I know they are, lol. I was just saying how Holy Blood might be more random than I initially thought, what with the evidence behind Eldigan's ancestry and Lewyn's uncles. Crests are fairly random with how they're inherited, and I didn't think that about Holy Blood due to how the game's mechanics worked with inheritance for the Gen 2 units.

I actually have quite a good explanation for Eldigan's ancestry (or rather Chagall's ancestry lacking it). Kaga's notes says Hezul had many children and that it was his youngest daughter that inherited the holy blood (while his first born, presumably male, heir is what lead to Chagall's royal line). Which on the face of it looks like more "Lul holy blud be random" shenanigans, but it actually makes perfect sense if we assume Hezul had most of his children before becoming a crusader, and thus is final daughter was his first born after acquiring holy blood, since it wouldn't make much sense for the holy blood to be retroactively added to the children already born. And considering the rebels had been fighting for twenty years already before the Mircale of Darna, it seems downright likely and a bit strange there aren't more cases of Chagall running around.

5 hours ago, indigoasis said:

And yeah, pairing Silvia and Claud gives both Lene and Coirpre Major Holy Blood, allowing Coirpre to use the Valkyrie Staff (Lene can techincally use it, too, but she's not in the right class). This is because Silvia has Minor Bragi Holy Blood, and Claud has Major Bragi Holy Blood. The way I see it, Major Holy Blood is passed down to the first child (which would be Lene in this case), and then the Minor Holy Blood that the next kid (Coirpre) would inherit from Claud combines with Silvia's Minor Holy Blood, turning it into Major Holy Blood. I love Holy Blood shenanigans like that.

 

I wasn't talking about Claud!Coirpre, as you mentioned that in your initial comment of Major+Minor=All Major Children. I was thinking that Lene and Lewin paired gives Coirpre major Sety blood in order form him to use Forseti (while I think Lene remains minor).

[Axie]

Just now, Jotari said:

Yeah, but then what about Baldo holy blood? Because that superseded the Naga holy blood at Seliph's conception. So is Baldo an even stronger holy blood than the super demon dragon and the super god dragon that tried to stop him?

oh yeah there's that too lol

i wanted to say maybe the father just passes his major holy blood to the firstborn always and then if the mother also has a major holy blood, a subsequent child gets it, but damn coirpre screws that.

so now i got nothing tbh. there aren't any rules in this house. at least the branded in tellius are honest with "oh btw the brand might show up randomly in a descendent lol oops".

[Dandy Druid]

The game and the lore surrounding it poorly explains how holy blood works. It is stated that the most direct descendant inherits major holy blood and the weapon/artifact associated with it. However, we have a couple of instances where this gets contradicted. First, Hezul's youngest daughter. Of course, Hezul could of have had his older children before receiving the dragon's blood and then had his youngest. His art makes him look a bit older, so it's a possible theory. It also explains how Chagall is his descendant yet he doesn't have any holy blood.

Meanwhile, you have the curious case of Lene, where her younger brother gets major holy blood instead. Lene, by all means, should be the one to get Major Holy Blood, since she is the eldest child. However, Sylvia and Ethlyn are the only mothers who have their daughter first and their son second, so it could've been a gameplay oversight after they conceptualized the characters.

1.)He paired two Minor Lopt Blooded individuals, so he knew he would get at least one child with Major (but Julia should have major too, if Ayra x Holyn and Claud x Silvia is anything to go by).

2.)Unlikely, but still possible. Or maybe one of the rulers was a woman, but she just had a more masculine name.

3.)I don't think Manfroy really cared if the Major Lopt Blooded individual was a boy or a girl. He just wanted a vessel for Lopt. IIRC he tells Arvis to quickly conceive a child, not specifically a son.

[Jotari]

11 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

2.)Unlikely, but still possible. Or maybe one of the rulers was a woman, but she just had a more masculine name.

 

Pretty likely, but while we're at it, how certain are we that Galle is a masculine name even? We're pretty sure the original Galle was a man, but just looking at the name itself, I wouldn't at all question a woman with the name Galle (especially if it's pronounced Gale which is a unisex name in our reality). Half the rulers of the Lopt empire could have been women for all we know. Only thing we do know is that t hey had the same name (and considering how crazy an amount of them there was for the time span, I'm guessing they weren't all direct decedents of each other and that Galle was a name they took upon becoming Emperor, like how cardinals always take a saint's name upon becoming pope.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Jotari

[indigoasis]

20 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I wasn't talking about Claud!Coirpre, as you mentioned that in your initial comment of Major+Minor=All Major Children. I was thinking that Lene and Lewin paired gives Coirpre major Sety blood in order form him to use Forseti (while I think Lene remains minor).

Oops, I forgot that was a thing, lol. Holy Blood do be like that sometimes.

But in all seriousness, that's probably just for gameplay. Lene isn't in a class that can use Forseti, and the way inheritance goes, mother passes to daughter and father passes to son (an exception being with Brigid and her kids, since Febail inherits Brigid's items). 

even so, why does holy blood have to be like this, I'm just now learning about these inconsistencies 😞

[Axie]

these inconsistencies all go away if a) coirpre is older than lene, b) julia is the older twin. if that were the case, everything else could fall into place. nothing much changes in the storyline with that, either. the drama of "we got THE DARK CHILD........ and also julia" is stupid, anyway. they would know from dierdre's size she'd be pregnant with twins lol.

[Acacia Sgt]

30 minutes ago, Axie said:

these inconsistencies all go away if a) coirpre is older than lene, b) julia is the older twin. if that were the case, everything else could fall into place. nothing much changes in the storyline with that, either. the drama of "we got THE DARK CHILD........ and also julia" is stupid, anyway. they would know from dierdre's size she'd be pregnant with twins lol.

I mean, the story itself already addressed this. Julius tried to kill Julia first chance he got after gaining the tome. So simply put, if the Major Loptr kid isn't the firstborn or the only one around, they just engineer for the others to be killed so the Loptr vessel is set to inherit.

[Axie]

19 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I mean, the story itself already addressed this. Julius tried to kill Julia first chance he got after gaining the tome. So simply put, if the Major Loptr kid isn't the firstborn or the only one around, they just engineer for the others to be killed so the Loptr vessel is set to inherit.

oh i meant that only in the context of solving the inconsistency in how holy blood works lol. of course in practical terms it doesn't really matter how the dark child comes out as long as they actually do, the others can be disposed of.

why wasn't julia killed on birth though? surely the mark identified her as major naga from then?

[Acacia Sgt]

4 minutes ago, Axie said:

oh i meant that only in the context of solving the inconsistency in how holy blood works lol. of course in practical terms it doesn't really matter how the dark child comes out as long as they actually do, the others can be disposed of.

why wasn't julia killed on birth though? surely the mark identified her as major naga from then?

The Cult didn't had a strong grip on the country yet. If Julia were to die, Arvis would quickly know why, and his own Loptr blood being discovered be damned, he would hunt down Manfroy. He did warned him before of not trying anything funny.

As it is, it took around seven years for them to finally give the Tome to Julius. Perhaps by then the Cult was confident it would be too late for the takeover to be stopped.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Acacia Sgt

[Axie]

14 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

The Cult didn't had a strong grip on the country yet. If Julia were to die, Arvis would quickly know why, and his own Loptr blood being discovered be damned, he would hunt down Manfroy. He did warned him before of not trying anything funny.

As it is, it took around seven years for them to finally give the Tome to Julius. Perhaps by then the Cult was confident it would be too late for the takeover to be stopped.

oh this makes a lot of sense! then julia could have just been the older twin to fulfill our holy blood inheritance OCD lol.

[Fëanen]

On 2/5/2021 at 5:04 PM, Axie said:

oh i meant that only in the context of solving the inconsistency in how holy blood works lol. of course in practical terms it doesn't really matter how the dark child comes out as long as they actually do, the others can be disposed of.

why wasn't julia killed on birth though? surely the mark identified her as major naga from then?

Kaga wrote that the marks didn't necessarily appear at birth, it's possible it took so many years before Manfroy had proof that Julius was the one he wanted.

Here's the interview where Kaga explained holy blood and markings https://serenesforest.net/general/designers-notes/holy-war/playing-guide/