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How Would You Make an Anime Film-Adaptation?

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So, it is generally agreed-on that western-made live-action film adaptations of anime tend to stink, with the two most notable exceptions being Alita: Battle Angel and Speed Racer, the former having been fairly well-received by viewers but still underperformed at the box office due to a combination of bad timing and bad marketing, and latter having been critically-panned on release but has gained a reputation as one of the most underrated movies of the 2000s.

So, suppose you were to make a live-action film adaptation of a notable anime:

  1. Which anime would you pick, and why?
  2. How would you adapt the story? Go for a broad-strokes approach like the Speed Racer film, more directly adapt the early arcs like Alita: Battle Angel, or some other method?
  3. What would you alter/cut/adjust/add in order to fit the film format?
  4. How would you handle casting, costuming, setting, effects, etc.; essentially, how "anime" the film looks?

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Apart from bias reasons, Hellsing is more westernized in spirit than a lot of anime (it deals with the Dracula mythos, Protestants vs Catholics vs Nazis, a lot of European history), so it lends itself more to this question than most. Very pulp, almost 'exploitation' like in terms of sheer violent nuttery that goes down, so the edgelords of the audience would love it, and it'd have a (horror-)cult audience as long as it tries.

I'd most likely do a movie trilogy as the Hellsing Ultimate OVA did a pretty damn job with the pacing and shows some clear "arc" separations that you could section into. 

My key wants would be to have Talesian Jaffe back in a director type of role, whether it's sound directing or not; the man knows his craft and loves the series.  Setting and effects would be tricky, but given the advances in CGI now, I wouldn't have the doubts that I would have even ten years ago.  Stylized gorn and a refusal to wimp out would be key.

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@kradeelav I haven't seen that particular anime, but that idea for adapting it sounds interesting.

Hm... I'm not sure what I'd do. I'll admit right away that I haven't seen much anime (see the spoiler tag below for the list):

Spoiler

Spider Riders

One-Punch Man

Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood

Violet Evergarden

Granblue Fantasy: the Animation (season 1)

Code Geass (season 1)

Fairy Tail (season 1)

Record of Grancrest War

Drifting Dragons

Naruto & Naruto Shippuden

My Hero Academia

Black Clover

Boruto: Naruto Next Generations

TONIKAWA: Fly Me to the Moon

 

I can't think of a single one from that list that would be straightforward to adapt into, but I can think of two ideas. For space, I'm putting the idea for how I would adapt the anime in a spoiler tag under the anime:

Violet Evergarden:

Spoiler

I can think of two options for adapting the story, and I'm honestly not sure which would be better:

The first would be to try to summarize the first season of the anime. The anime focused more on Violet herself and her journey than that of her clients compared to the light novel, and I think a movie would have to go even further in that regard both for time and to fit the format of a movie compared to a TV show. Important plot beats would be her and the major, her waking up in the hospital with her new arms and writing a letter to the major, her wanting to become an auto memory doll (ghost writer) to understand what "I love you" means, her finding out that Gilbert's MIA and presumed dead, Violet realizing all the lives she took in the war, Claudia reminding her about those she's helped, etc., ending with a similar happy ending as the anime that leaves it ambiguous if Gilbert's alive or dead. A lot of people criticized that the anime ended that way, but I think that would be the best way to end a film adaptation, and I would be taking more queues from the anime than the light novel anyway. I would try to keep how the different characters she helps act as the point-of-view characters and have voiceover with how they perceive Violet.

The second would be to create an original client, with input from the author of the light novel, and have her helping the client be the framing device for the movie. The movie would still focus on Violet herself, but this way I wouldn't have to try to summarize a huge amount of events; instead framing significant moments in Violet's journey as reveals and flashbacks. The client would be the point-of-view character, and they would provide their perspective in voiceover like in the anime.

The first method is better for giving the full story, while the other would be a lot more straightforward, has less risk of being disjointed, and better capitalizes on how the anime and light novel are formatted. I honestly can't decide which would be better; what do you think?

Maintaining the look of the anime would be very straightforward; I'd make sure the movie is vibrant and colourful and has the "fantasy version of Europe in 1919" look, with flashbacks to the war having very little colour outside of certain objects that the person recollecting the events would distinctly remember, similarly to how the anime gave all the background characters distinct faces except during Violet's flashback to the war. All the costuming and everything would be practical with the one exception of Violet's prosthetic arms, which would be CG. The actress would be wearing motion-capture on her arms.

I would also give the movie an opening reminiscent of the anime's opening; anime is the only medium left outside of Bond films that still does big flashy openings with music and everything, so it would make sense to carry that over into the film if there's room for it.

I suppose my biggest concern about the movie would be that the appeal was rather niche. I suppose right now and within the next couple of years is a perfect time for a story about overcoming grief, moving forward after a tragedy and the importance of communication, but while the anime is notable, it isn't a huge name.

Finally, however I adapted the movie, I would dedicate it in memory of those who lost their lives in the Kyoto Animation fire. The dedication would be appear before the film begins.

 

Naruto:

Spoiler

On the one hand, Naruto would be surprisingly easy to adapt compared to most shonen anime: it starts off relatively down-to-earth and most of the characters have natural hair colours. However, it is still a shonen anime with a ton of arcs and side characters. That said, I think I have an idea for how to adapt it:

A three-film series: 1 films for part 1, and 2 films for adapting Shippuden. Understandably, a lot would have to be cut or altered, but I think it could actually work. See the spoiler tags for each part for details for each individual film.

I would bring in Kishimoto for a consulting role while retaining final say, and given how he handled Boruto (i.e. encouraging the writers and animators to do their own thing) and how he says that the video games are his favourite adaptation, I think that kind of role is what he'd prefer. I'd also take into consideration what he's said about the series in interviews; both what he loved writing and his regrets. 

In addition to adjusting arcs to fit the film and correct the show's main problems, I'd also be making adjustments to maintain continuity and get rid of retcons. Introduce greater foreshadowing and establishment for essential things that came out of nowhere, while dropping non-essential things that came out of nowhere.

I'd also try to give each film a distinct opening for similar reasons as mentioned above with Violet Evergarden. These openings would be more original, though visual elements from some of the better openings would be incorporated (such as elements from the 6th and 7th opening being used in the first Shippuden film). 

Since it's a trilogy and for an anime that was a huge worldwide phenomenon, I could probably get away with pulling a Lord of the Rings and making each film over 2 and a half hours if necessary.

Part 1:

Spoiler

For adapting part 1 into one film, it would start of course with the opening talking about the 4th Hokage sealing the nine-tails into Naruto (and referring to the nine-tails as a "Tailed Beast" for better continuity) then the first bits of the film would be Naruto becoming a genin and team 7 being formed, maybe quickly going through a heavily-trimmed land of waves arc that takes up maybe 20 minutes at most, then the bulk of the film's second and third act is the Chunin Exams arc, then the last 20 minutes of the film would be the Search for Tsunade arc (though it wouldn't be much of a "search" for Tsunade due to the heavy trimming but that's fine) and the Sasuke Retrieval arc. Gaara and Orochimaru would be the primary villains of the film, with Itachi appearing for about two minutes to threaten the village and prompt Sasuke's fall.

One of the most prominent criticisms of the show that completely misses the point of the series is people blowing "hard work vs talent" out of proportion when I believe that Naruto being untalented was just supposed to be an obstacle, with the actual focus being on Naruto overcoming his loneliness and getting the village that hates him to accept him. One thing that I would do for the sake of making the story more focused and fit the film format that incidentally would also make this already terrible criticism completely null & void is that I'd take a trimmer to the "untalented loser" angle; instead, I'd have it that the kids know he's the host of the nine-tails like their parents know (or leave it like the first episode says is the case and have it that the kids hate him because their parents told them to hate him) and Naruto using the nine-tails power would be more clearly framed as him utilizing the very thing that made him a societal outcast and a "loser". The Naruto vs Neji fight was about whether or not one can escape the cage that society places them in, and I think this change would place even more emphasis on that and make it more clear, and it incidentally would eliminate that stupid "Naruto broke his own lesson by using the nine-tails" bologna argument. 

By contrast, the things I'd trim the least would be the things related to Naruto's loneliness as well as every Naruto & Hinata scene for similar reasons. In fact, I'd leave the scene where Naruto and Hinata talk before his fight with Neji completely intact.

Speaking of Naruto and Hinata, one thing I would cut entirely would be Naruto's crush on Sakura. Kishimoto himself has said that the love triangle is one of his biggest regrets about the series in hindsight and that he'd cut it entirely, and I think love triangles are stupid with this one being no exception. I'd also make adjustments to the Sakura character; namely making her more useful by better utilizing her being the team's smart one (which was utilized in the test part of the chunin exams and when they're learning to run up trees and then never again) as well as just having her do a better job against Orochimaru's minions in general (I'd even reframe the ultimately-pointless hair-cutting scene so that it's not, well, ultimately-pointless) and I'd tone down her crush on Sasuke to more reasonable levels while still largely retaining it. As for Sasuke, I'd make it that, while he starts off brooding, he does not start off as a jerk, and the rivalry he develops with Naruto has vitriol but is not antagonistic. He gradually becomes more of a jerk as a result of him becoming more resentful as he slides down the slippery slope. That way, when he decides to abandon the village to get stronger under Orochimaru, it's a lot more tragic rather than "Oh, yeah; the bully's becoming a bad guy" which I feel would be conveyed if I compressed everything to a movie format without making this adjustment, as important small things would be lost. For similar reasons, I'd adjust him to be more... for lack of a better word, receptive towards Sakura so that the, "Thank you for everything" moment retains its impact.

The Sasuke retrieval arc would be heavily cut; the sound four would be cut entirely with Kimimaro replacing them (and he'd also have a brief appearance in the chunin exams arc where he takes out a bunch of chunin and jonin before needing to retreat due to his illness). Kimimaro would end up fighting all the kids while Naruto goes after Sasuke and Shikamaru would figure out about Kimimaro's terminal illness from before and they'd beat him by intentionally drawing out the fight and cutting off his retreat.

I think a lot of Chunin Exams arc characters would be reduced to cameos/background characters, but I cannot think of any that would be completely cut except for random brief antagonists like the Hidden Rain genin, and even then, I think they could have a place if they only appear for two minutes and it's hinted that Pain/Nagato sent them to capture Naruto as part of his plan to eventually betray Tobi.

Gaara's backstory speech would say, "[The Shukaku's] last host was an old monk" rather than, "The Shukaku was an old monk" to maintain continuity with the tailed beast stuff later.

Shippuden:

Spoiler

The first film would go from the start of Shippuden up to and including the Invasion of Pain arc. 99% of the Hidan & Kakazu arc would be cut entirely as it doesn't really tie into anything, while the rest would be trimmed down but not necessarily cut. Pain and Itachi would be the main villains, with Tobi and Zetsu naturally in the background. 

Hebi/Taka would be kept, but with less focus given to them, and Karin's obsession with Sasuke would be cut. That said, this is the part where an increasing number of characters will start to be cut. 

For time, I think I would make it so that Jiraiya first brings Naruto to the toad mountain and he learns sage mode between films (with flashbacks to it in this film) and maybe have it that Naruto finds a copy of Jiraiya's first book before Jiraiya dies, and we see Naruto holding it and reading bits of it while mourning Jiraiya. 

I think I would also cut 90% of the Sasuke & Sai arc, since the only truly significant things to happen in it are Naruto going 4-tailed, Sasuke showing what he's learned, and Danzo being introduced and being a pathetic conniving tapeworm; all of which can be established without this arc since they come up elsewhere.

This film would also have the Kakashi flashbacks. I was thinking of having them at the start of the movie and having them transition to Kakashi standing over Obito and Rin's graves before then looking up at the carving of Minato's face. Then the movie would cut to Naruto returning to the village.

Shippuden, particularly late Shippuden, was the part of the show where power creep really started to set in. To solve that (and to make these abilities better translate to a live-action format), my plan would be to seriously tone down a lot of the stuff that threw the power scaling out of whack. While it would be a lot more apparent in the second shippuden film, one would start to see it here with Itachi's Mangekyo Sharingan abilities; particularly the sussano'o and the amaterasu. The sussano'o wouldn't be toned down in power, but it would be heavily toned down in size; being much closer to the size of the user and almost more of a protective coating with its own ligaments than a gigantic avatar that may as well be in a giant mecha anime. The amaterasu wouldn't be changed too much, but I would have it that it burns a small focused point that the person's looking directly at, rather than burning at any size that's within their line of sight. Moments like Sasuke putting a ring of black fire around his sussano'o would have him tracing the circle with his eyes to make the ring. 

Spoiler

The second film would go from the Kage Summit arc to the end of the manga. It is here that I am at my most indecisive for several reasons: 

This part of Naruto introduced a Russian Nesting Doll of main villains, and it makes the most sense to cut one of them entirely. My original plan was to cut the original Madara Uchiha entirely and have Black Zetsu manipulate Obito directly, with Pain's rinnegan having come from the sage or something like that. This was my plan because I considered Madara the most redundant of them when considering the larger picture, but now I'm seeing a lot of problems with that.

I'm similarly indecisive about how to handle the Shinobi War and the reanimation jutsu; do I cut the reanimation jutsu or not?

Some things that I am more decisive of include the following:

1. Hiashi (Hinata's dad) will die instead of Neji. Neji will rush to save Hinata, and Hiashi will rush in to save Neji. He dies happy that things are going to change to the Hyuga Clan and apologizes to Hinata for dismissing her compassion as weakness.

2. Naruto and Sasuke's upgrades will be dialed back so that Sakura actually is keeping up with them. She's still not as powerful as them, but she'd be like Kakashi: still keeping up despite a lack of raw power compared to them. 

3. The reincarnation stuff will almost-certainly be cut; Naruto and Sasuke are only incarnations in a strictly metaphorical sense if it is even brought up at all. 

 

Edited by vanguard333

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8 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

One of the biggest trims I'd make (if not cutting it out entirely) is with the "hard work vs talent" angle that's especially prominent in the Chunin Exams arc; a lot of people more critical of the show make a big deal out of it and how the show contradicts itself about when I think the intent was originally just for Naruto's lack of talent to simply be an obstacle, with the real focus being on Naruto overcoming his loneliness. Naruto beating Neji would be framed as him winning with the very things that make Naruto "a loser" (thus no one complains about him using the power of the nine-tails since the nine-tails is the reason almost all the adults hate him). The message of the fight remains largely the same while getting rid of the stupid "self-made hypocrite" argument. By contrast, one of the things I'd trim the least would be the things related to Naruto's loneliness as well as every Naruto & Hinata scene for similar reasons. In fact, I'd leave the scene where Naruto and Hinata talk before his fight with Neji completely intact.

Okay okay. I was gonna read this whole thing but the minute I read this section here I absolutely couldn’t stand to read another word. God you have no idea just how much reading this made my blood fucking boil. This section right here shows a complete and blatent misunderstanding of Naruto as a series it’s laughable. “Hard work vs talent?!” Fuck off with that!! If you honestly and truly think that was at all what Naruto was about then you need to go rewatch the damn series because you clearly were not paying attention. If you unironically agree with that plagueofgripes video then I’m sorry but I can’t respect your take on the series. I’m sorry if I’m coming off as heated here but just know that video “Naruto the self made hypocrite” pisses me off to no end. I apologize for the rant. That video and the discourse it’s spawned just pisses me off. Naruto was never and I mean never a story about “Hard work vs Talent” and I swear to god if you unironically think that it was then I’m sorry but you just weren’t paying attention.

Edited by Ottservia

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7 hours ago, Ottservia said:

Okay okay. I was gonna read this whole thing but the minute I read this section here I absolutely couldn’t stand to read another word. God you have no idea just how much reading this made my blood fucking boil. This section right here shows a complete and blatent misunderstanding of Naruto as a series it’s laughable. 

You misunderstand what I was trying to say; I'm in complete agreement with you about the point of the series; I was saying in the very paragraph you quoted that I dislike how people criticizing the show focus on "hard work vs talent" when I believe the protagonist being untalented was only written to be an obstacle, with the true focus of the story being Naruto overcoming his loneliness, and how I think stuff like the "self-made hypocrite" argument is completely idiotic and misses the point. 

I was just trying to say that I would, when going over the stuff happening in part 1, make it even more clear what the story is really about. Does that make sense now?

I'll try to rephrase my paragraph to make it even more clear what I meant. Does how I've rephrased my paragraph make it more clear what I meant?

Edited by vanguard333

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1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

You misunderstand what I was trying to say; I'm in complete agreement with you about the point of the series; I was saying in the very paragraph you quoted that I dislike how people criticizing the show focus on "hard work vs talent" when I believe the protagonist being untalented was only written to be an obstacle, with the true focus of the story being Naruto overcoming his loneliness, and how I think stuff like the "self-made hypocrite" argument is completely idiotic and misses the point. 

I was just trying to say that I would, when going over the stuff happening in part 1, make it even more clear what the story is really about. Does that make sense now?

I'll try to rephrase my paragraph to make it even more clear what I meant. Does how I've rephrased my paragraph make it more clear what I meant?

Yeah that’s better and again I apologize for the rant. I absolutely despise whenever someone even remotely suggests that Naruto was about that cause it never was and people need to shut up about it. As for the rest of your post. There’s a lot I disagree with. The land of waves arc being cut down to just 20 minutes does not work because you’d have to cut out a lot of important scenes and nuance in order to make it that short and cutting out stuff like Kaizo or Haku’s backstory just guts the arc of any nuance it has. If I’m being frank the land of waves could be an entire movie on its own. The entirety of part 1 could be 2 or 3 movies on their own if I’m being honest and that’s not even mentioning part 2 which could be about 3 movies at least especially with how long the war is. I also disagree with cutting the reincarnation stuff simply because the reincarnation stuff actually does enhance the story’s themes regarding the cycle of hatred. Naruto takes heavy and I mean heavy inspiration from both buddhism and shintoism. Reincarnation as a way to gain enlightenment in order to escape the cycle of suffering is one of the core philosophies of Buddhism so taking that out robs the series of something that’s a part of its core identity. 

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2 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Yeah that’s better and again I apologize for the rant. 

It's okay. I realize that communication is not a strong point of mine and usually something in my head will clearly mean one thing and then come across as meaning something else entirely when other people hear or read it.

9 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

The land of waves arc being cut down to just 20 minutes does not work because you’d have to cut out a lot of important scenes and nuance in order to make it that short and cutting out stuff like Kaizo or Haku’s backstory just guts the arc of any nuance it has. If I’m being frank the land of waves could be an entire movie on its own. The entirety of part 1 could be 2 or 3 movies on their own if I’m being honest and that’s not even mentioning part 2 which could be about 3 movies at least especially with how long the war is.

Yeah; that's the problem I immediately saw with trying to adapt a long-running shonen battle anime into a movie format. My original idea was to split Part 1 into two movies, but I couldn't figure out where to cut it in half, and even though this is all hypothetical, pitching something that would require 4+ movies to get through would require such massive guts that they wouldn't fit inside the largest human, so I figured then to try to make it one film. After that, my idea was to maybe cut the Land of Waves arc entirely, but going straight from becoming genin to the chunin exams didn't make much sense.

I suppose having everything up to the end of the Land of Waves arc could work be the first film and then Chunin Exams-to-Sasuke Retrieval be the second half could work, but then the first two films would have a really slow pace compared to the Shippuden films and it would be kind-of weird spending so much time in the first film on a conflict that doesn't tie in to the others when all the subsequent main villains and their conflicts do tie in to each other. 

As for Shippuden, the length of the war is one reason I'd have it that the first Shippuden film would cover everything up to the Invasion of Pain arc and then the next film would be 5-Kage Summit onwards, as that way the bulk of the second one would be the Shinobi War. What do you think would be a good way to deal with the nesting-doll-of-villains that the war arc has?

 

20 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

I also disagree with cutting the reincarnation stuff simply because the reincarnation stuff actually does enhance the story’s themes regarding the cycle of hatred. Naruto takes heavy and I mean heavy inspiration from both buddhism and shintoism. Reincarnation as a way to gain enlightenment in order to escape the cycle of suffering is one of the core philosophies of Buddhism so taking that out robs the series of something that’s a part of its core identity. 

Oh; to be clear, I was in favour of keeping the whole "lessons of the past" angle and everything; I was just suggesting that the reincarnation not be literal, but more of a metaphor of "let's not have the mistakes of history repeat themselves." Have the characters say, "What happened with the two brothers happened with 1st Hokage & Madara, and now is happening again with Naruto & Sasuke; let's try to break the cycle" or something like that. This was mainly something I was suggesting so that the film audience isn't getting too much suddenly thrown at them in the last film. 

By the way, was there anything you agreed with or any other suggestions you have?

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Speaking of Naruto, I think I have the perfect adaptation here. It may even be how the Hollywood adaptation plays out.

Naruto:

When he was 7, Naruto watches a Godzilla movie and on his way out of the cinema his parents are destroyed by a cheap thief named Zabuza, so Naruto grows up as a shy nerd who is beaten daily by jock Neji and on top of that he suffers jokes from his outgoing girlfriend Hinata. Depressed, Naruto decides to watch an experiment involving mutagen and a fox. During the experiment, the terrorist Deidara and his band invade the site, and in an explosion Naruto ends up with splinters in his heart, but thanks to his privileged mind he succesfully implants the mutant fox in his chest. His mutant powers start to manifest mainly when he gets nervous and starts shouting "Naruto smash!". 

Naruto doesn't know what to do until his Uncle Jiraya is killed by a petty thief named Kisame, so Naruto swears to defend the truth, justice and American way of life and after training with Professor Kakashi at his school for mutants he learns to create avengers clones who fight against evil united as one. Naruto saves the world from a mutant, mad scientist clown named Orochimaru unaware that his emo son Sasuke watches everything and in a tantrum swears revenge. By the end of the movie, Naruto goes to work as a reporter wearing glasses as a disguise. His co-worker Sakura even suspects, but is too stupid to connect the dots.

In a post-credit scene, an Amazon warrior named Sailor Moon appears watching a gothic boy named Ichigo for unknown reasons.

Edited by Maof06

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27 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

@Maof06 I'm guessing that you're making a joke about Hollywood.

Yeah, that was my goal. I was going to put in that final part that the film would be the bridge to the Anime Cinematic Universe (ACU) and that the next installment would be Dragon Ball Evolution 2: Revenge of the Fallen, but I didn't want to give away or explain the joke. What I wanted to say, albeit in a funny manner, was that it is almost impossible to make a decent adaptation of a long manga, and that inevitably they would screw up.

On a semi-related note, I would like to say that expressing myself was never a quality of mine, and apparently it is much more difficult to be sarcastic on the internet (which is one of my qualities), so it is understandable that someone may not get it.

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On 2/8/2021 at 4:08 PM, Maof06 said:

Yeah, that was my goal. I was going to put in that final part that the film would be the bridge to the Anime Cinematic Universe (ACU) and that the next installment would be Dragon Ball Evolution 2: Revenge of the Fallen, but I didn't want to give away or explain the joke. 

I figured you were making that joke; I just wanted to make sure on the extremely off-chance it was a real idea so I wouldn't unwittingly call someone's legit idea a joke or something like that.

By any chance, to you have a more genuine answer to the thread's question (as in what you would adapt and how)?

Edited by vanguard333

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On 2/8/2021 at 6:12 PM, vanguard333 said:

By any chance, to you have a more genuine answer to the thread's question (as in what you would adapt and how)?

I think Jojo's part 1 and 2 could fit in a movie trilogy. Phantom Blood can be adapted in just one movie. Battle Tendency part 1 can end after the first encounter with the Pillar Men, and part 2 can cover the rest.

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On 2/8/2021 at 11:05 AM, vanguard333 said:

Oh; to be clear, I was in favour of keeping the whole "lessons of the past" angle and everything; I was just suggesting that the reincarnation not be literal, but more of a metaphor of "let's not have the mistakes of history repeat themselves." Have the characters say, "What happened with the two brothers happened with 1st Hokage & Madara, and now is happening again with Naruto & Sasuke; let's try to break the cycle" or something like that. This was mainly something I was suggesting so that the film audience isn't getting too much suddenly thrown at them in the last film. 

That’s not exactly what I meant. Let me ask you what do you know about Buddhism? Cause if you had at least a basic understanding of the religion then you wouldn’t make this response. The reason the reincarnation stuff in Naruto is so literal is because it takes heavy inspiration from Buddhist teachings and philosophy. Hell, the rinnegan literally translates to Samsara eye and the six paths of pain are a very literal reference to the six realms of samsara of Buddhism. In regards to reincarnation well it’s just another very important aspect of Buddhism. The idea of a person reincarnating their spirit countless times in order to eventually reach enlightenment and an end to the cycle of suffering is what Buddhism is which is exactly what happens in Naruto. Indra and Asura’s spirits are constantly reincarnated in this endless cycle of hatred and war in a desperate struggle to somehow break this cycle and find an answer to peace. Making it not literal kinda muddies the message of the story and unnecessarily throws out deep rooted religious and cultural context built into the story. I find it kind of disrespectful in that regard if I’m being perfectly honest.

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46 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

That’s not exactly what I meant. Let me ask you what do you know about Buddhism?

Almost nothing outside of the bits that Naruto referenced like the rinnegan. I assumed that Kishimoto simply drew ideas like the rinnegan and six-paths from it the same way he drew the Jiraiya, Tsunade and Orochimaru characters from a 19th-Century ballad, that he drew the Kaguya character from The Tale of the Bamboo Cutter and that he drew half the tailed beasts from various yokai: taking basic concepts and elements from them while reworking them into his own thing that fit his fictional world of shinobi.

 

46 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Making it not literal kinda muddies the message of the story and unnecessarily throws out deep rooted religious and cultural context built into the story. I find it kind of disrespectful in that regard if I’m being perfectly honest.

I see. As you can assume, that was definitely not my intent. As I said above, I figured he was simply drawing elements while leaving the context behind like he did with the various ballads and folklore from which he also drew ideas.

My thought process was essentially, "Naruto juggled a lot of different ideas over its long run, and even then, the last part of Naruto suddenly threw in a lot of stuff almost at the last minute; if making a 3-4 film series, a fair amount of stuff would have to be cut otherwise the films would be overstuffed, unfocused and disjointed, and what's essentially the climax of the film series is going to be overstuffed with new info when things should be wrapping up. So, what were some things at the end that looked like they could be cut without creating problems. Well, there's that reincarnation stuff that was thrown in almost at the last minute around the same time as Kaguya was… maybe that?"

Any suggestions instead for what could/should be cut or trimmed from the last part? At this rate, I'm thinking that the Violet Evergarden film idea would be far easier

Edited by vanguard333

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On 2/7/2021 at 5:22 PM, vanguard333 said:

Speaking of Naruto and Hinata, one thing I would cut entirely would be Naruto's crush on Sakura. Kishimoto himself has said that the love triangle is one of his biggest regrets about the series in hindsight and that he'd cut it entirely, and I think love triangles are stupid with this one being no exception. I'd also make adjustments to the Sakura character; namely making her more useful by better utilizing her being the team's smart one (which was utilized in the test part of the chunin exams and when they're learning to run up trees and then never again) as well as just having her do a better job against Orochimaru's minions in general (I'd even reframe the ultimately-pointless hair-cutting scene so that it's not, well, ultimately-pointless) and I'd tone down her crush on Sasuke to more reasonable levels while still largely retaining it. As for Sasuke, I'd make it that, while he starts off brooding, he does not start off as a jerk, and the rivalry he develops with Naruto has vitriol but is not antagonistic. He gradually becomes more of a jerk as a result of him becoming more resentful as he slides down the slippery slope. That way, when he decides to abandon the village to get stronger under Orochimaru, it's a lot more tragic rather than "Oh, yeah; the bully's becoming a bad guy" which I feel would be conveyed if I compressed everything to a movie format without making this adjustment, as important small things would be lost. For similar reasons, I'd adjust him to be more... for lack of a better word, receptive towards Sakura so that the, "Thank you for everything" moment retains its impact.

I’m sorry but huh? First of all the Sakura is useless meme needs to die cause it’s straight up not true. Secondly, Sakura cutting her hair is a common trope in anime/manga used to symbolize growth and maturity in female characters. Which is exactly what that moment. I could understand cutting the fight itself entirely (or just changing the forest of death into something else entirely that much better fits the movie format kinda like what they did for the Boruto movie) and moving that moment to when she fights Ino in the prelims but removing it entirely just doesn’t seem right. Cause again it’s symbolize her growth and maturity which is a character point further developed in her fight with Ino. 
 

Another, when was Sasuke ever outright intentionally antagonistic towards Naruto? Are you sure we’re talking about the same character because Sasuke was never out right intentionally malicious towards Naruto. At worst he just viewed Naruto as just inferior to him in every regard. Yeah he was abrasive but I would never go so far as to call him an outright bully because he never went out of his way to antagonize Naruto. If anything it was the reverse where Naruto would go out of his way to antagonize Sasuke but Sasuke just didn’t care. Like if you want an example of a bully character that’s Bakugo and he’s nothing like Sasuke. Like the way you suggest changing his character is kind of missing the point of his character entirely. The point of Sasuke’s character is that he starts off as this brooding loner who feels his teammates would be nothing but a detriment to him. But as he spends more time with team 7, he begins to care about them and see them as a second family. He’s able to gain strength through bonds which forces him to soften up and start being less of an angsty loner cause he does care for his teammates. It’s only when he’s reminded of his hate by seeing Itachi again that he begins to reject that path. He starts treading the path of loneliness once again seeking Orochimaru for power someone who was able to kill the third hokage after severing his past bonds. The reason Naruto vs Sasuke works at all is because of how Sasuke was able to view Naruto as a friend because of their shared experiences together in team 7. I could go on all day about all the little nuances of Sasuke’s character arc but then we’d be here all day. The point is that changing Sasuke’s character in the way that you suggest goes against the point of his character. Sasuke is a character that walks both path of darkness and light. He was a character always destined to fall into darkness because of his goals. Him starting out as abrasive as he is makes sense because of the trauma he’s experienced and it’s that refusal to truly let go of the past is what prevents him from truly walking down the same road Naruto does.

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59 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

I’m sorry but huh? First of all the Sakura is useless meme needs to die cause it’s straight up not true. Secondly, Sakura cutting her hair is a common trope in anime/manga used to symbolize growth and maturity in female characters. Which is exactly what that moment. I could understand cutting the fight itself entirely (or just changing the forest of death into something else entirely that much better fits the movie format kinda like what they did for the Boruto movie) and moving that moment to when she fights Ino in the prelims but removing it entirely just doesn’t seem right. Cause again it’s symbolize her growth and maturity which is a character point further developed in her fight with Ino. 

I didn't say she is outright useless; in fact early in part 1 had her at some of her most useful moments by being the 1st one to figure out how to climb up the tree and in figuring out the answers to the written test. I'm just saying I'd have her keep up more earlier on in an attempt to account for the compressed nature of a film adaptation. It wouldn't have the episodes and episodes and it would have to pick and choose moments to keep, so I thought cutting some of the smaller moments where she outright isn't keeping up with Naruto and Sasuke would help. As for the hair-cutting thing, I agree with what you said about what it means for her character and said I would keep the moment; I'd just reframe it so that it amounted to something during the fight. The moment's good in terms of her character, but in terms of the fight itself, if I recall correctly (it's been a while since I saw the fight and I'd have to re-watch it), she cuts her hair to free herself from the sound genin lady's grip, but then she just proceeds to get knocked down.

The paragraph was originally written with the idea of part 1 being all one film. I hadn't considered changing the Sound Genin fight itself, since it's the fight where Sasuke's curse mark activates and Sakura has that hair-cutting moment, and you bring up a good idea about changing the forest of death to better fit the movie format (my original thought was just to compress it), and thanks for reminding me about the Sakura vs Ino fight. 

 

59 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Another, when was Sasuke ever outright intentionally antagonistic towards Naruto? 

Who said intentional? I didn't say intentional; I just said that their rivalry dynamic was antagonistic and that he starts off as a jerk because he's too concerned with his pursuit of vengeance to notice how he's treating everyone around him. At the risk of oversimplifying, what I was trying to say was that he learns camaraderie during the Land of Waves arc and then gives it up when he backslides and leaves the village, and (again this was a result of the original idea being part 1 as one film) compressing everything down to 3 hours at most would most likely mean either an extremely rushed development and equally rushed backslide, or having to keep one but not the other, and I have to keep the backslide, so my idea was to adjust how Sasuke starts so I could keep how he ends. Does that make sense?

If there's a list of reasons to make part 1 two films rather than just one, making it so I don't have to cut one would definitely be near the top of it.

 

By the way, regarding Sakura and Sasuke, what do you think of the idea of cutting Naruto's unrequited crush on Sakura?

Edited by vanguard333

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35 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

If there's a list of reasons to make part 1 two films rather than just one, making it so I don't have to cut one would definitely be near the top of it.

Personally I’d adapt part 1 as three movies. If each of them was three hours I suppose you could get away with 2 depending on what you cut but 3 seems like the ideal number. In fact, one major change I’d make to the first movie is adaptating the Minato and Kushina flashbacks and putting them at the beginning of the film with rest of the film adapting everything up to the end of the land of waves arc with maybe an extended flashback for Zabuza and Haku if you need to fill out time. The second movie would cover the chunin exams and maybe the search for tsunade(again depending on what you wanna cut) or hell just cut search for tsunade almost entirely and you can get away with only 2 movies.
 

Shippuden would be another 3 movies. With the first putting a focus on Naruto and adapting everything all the way up to the pain invasion arc but also cutting out the Sasuke centric arc in between with the exception of maybe a couple scenes here or there. The second movie by contrast would be mostly Sasuke Centric and would adapt everything up to the five kage summit ending when the two meet up again after Sasuke kills Danzo. The third movie would adapt the entirety of the war arc and end with Naruto vs Sasuke.

47 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

By the way, regarding Sakura and Sasuke, what do you think of the idea of cutting Naruto's unrequited crush on Sakura?

I’m mixed on it. On one hand, I feel like it could be cut without losing much but then you’d lose out on one of the best moments in the five kage summit(When Sakura “confesses” to Naruto) so I dunno, I’m mixed on it.

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53 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Personally I’d adapt part 1 as three movies. If each of them was three hours I suppose you could get away with 2 depending on what you cut but 3 seems like the ideal number. In fact, one major change I’d make to the first movie is adaptating the Minato and Kushina flashbacks and putting them at the beginning of the film with rest of the film adapting everything up to the end of the land of waves arc with maybe an extended flashback for Zabuza and Haku if you need to fill out time. The second movie would cover the chunin exams and maybe the search for tsunade(again depending on what you wanna cut) or hell just cut search for tsunade almost entirely and you can get away with only 2 movies.
 

Shippuden would be another 3 movies. With the first putting a focus on Naruto and adapting everything all the way up to the pain invasion arc but also cutting out the Sasuke centric arc in between with the exception of maybe a couple scenes here or there. The second movie by contrast would be mostly Sasuke Centric and would adapt everything up to the five kage summit ending when the two meet up again after Sasuke kills Danzo. The third movie would adapt the entirety of the war arc and end with Naruto vs Sasuke.

That's a neat idea. I guess my main concern about doing three movies for part 1 is the fact that the main characters are 12-13 and ideally will need to still look 12-13. Pulling a Lord of the Rings on the trilogy (i.e. pretty much making them almost all at once) would help, but even one of them gets a sudden growth spurt or anything like that (like what happened with that Peter Pan film) could present a series of problems. 

Yeah; my plan was to cut search for Tsunade almost entirely; my plan was to just have Tsunade become the new Kage after Jiraiya refuses, and the scene where Kakashi confronts Kisame & Itachi and the scene where Jiraiya, Naruto and most importantly Sasuke confront Kisame & Itachi are combined into one. Naruto would probably find out about Kabuto's treachery (if Kabuto isn't cut; he probably wouldn't be but I'm leaving this here just in case) during Orochimaru's invasion that interrupts the Chunin Exams.

Part 2 would be less of a problem in terms of the actor age thing because they'd be 15-16 by that point, so three films would be easier. I like that idea of separating out the Naruto and Sasuke stuff and I like that idea of cutting most of the Sasuke & Sai arc (which is something I even considered). 

 

1 hour ago, Ottservia said:

I’m mixed on it. On one hand, I feel like it could be cut without losing much but then you’d lose out on one of the best moments in the five kage summit(When Sakura “confesses” to Naruto) so I dunno, I’m mixed on it.

Oh, yeah; I can see. Even though I didn't like that scene, I can see that it still has importance as Naruto and Sakura coming to a head about how they're going to handle Sasuke, with her trying to protect him by leaving him in the dark about her plan and trying to get him to stop pursuing Sasuke. Though, you could still possibly have the scene by keeping the stuff where she releases him from the promise he made to her and tries to tell him to stop, and it makes him suspicious or something like that. I think you could cut out the fake love confession and still keep those important parts of the scene if you're careful about it. It probably wouldn't have the same impact, but it probably could still carry similar weight and be a similar gut-punch. 

Yeah; there isn't really anything other than that that would lose anything by dropping the crush. Plus, if Kishimoto himself is saying that he regrets adding it as he always intended for Naruto and Hinata to be the official couple, he only added it as a red herring, and it became, "messy" in his eyes, then it probably can easily afford to be cut.

Of course, I'd probably get a ton of angry messages from Naruto and Sakura shippers as well as have to watch them try and fail to review-bomb the movie (just look at how they reacted to The Last), but hopefully I could find someone to teach me how to block the angry messages while I play the shippers a sad song on the world's smallest violin. 

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34 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I like that idea of cutting most of the Sasuke & Sai arc (which is something I even considered). 

Okay who said anything about cutting the tenchi bridge arc. It’s probably the most important arc in early shippuden so you kind of have to keep it in. Now ehat I meant is that you should cut out take out all the stuff like Sasuke vs Orochimaru, Team Taka, and Sasuke vs Itachi from the first shippuden movie and put it in the second one. The idea here is to give the sense of how both of them walk their own paths. You have one movie all about Naruto which focuses on him trying to recover from his failure at the valley of the end. And then one about Sasuke which follows his true desent into madness. The two paths then converge in the third(or fourth cause the war arc is just that long) where they have their final fight.

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1 hour ago, Ottservia said:

Okay who said anything about cutting the tenchi bridge arc. It’s probably the most important arc in early shippuden so you kind of have to keep it in. Now ehat I meant is that you should cut out take out all the stuff like Sasuke vs Orochimaru, Team Taka, and Sasuke vs Itachi from the first shippuden movie and put it in the second one. The idea here is to give the sense of how both of them walk their own paths. You have one movie all about Naruto which focuses on him trying to recover from his failure at the valley of the end. And then one about Sasuke which follows his true desent into madness. The two paths then converge in the third(or fourth cause the war arc is just that long) where they have their final fight.

…Oh; that's the arc you were referring to. I read "Sasuke arc" and was mistaken on which one you were referring to, My bad.

That could work, it would help with the formatting, though it would lose the juxtaposition and parallelism that came from Itachi and Jiraiya's deaths happening almost side-by-side. 

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