Speculation: Pokemon Diamond & Pearl remakes

[Lord_Brand]

Ever since Pokemon FireRed and LeafGreen came out for GBA in 2004, the Pokemon series has slowly been rolling out remakes of past-generation games, continuing the trend with HeartGold and SoulSilver on DS in 2009 and Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire on 3DS in 2014. Now Diamond and Pearl are about due for remakes, presumably headed to the Switch like Pokemon Sword & Shield before them.

In this topic, we speculate on what we think and hope we'll see in these presumably inevitable remakes, and maybe discuss issues in the original Gen IV titles as well as Sword & Shield that we'd like to see addressed here. What will the titles be? How will they incorporate the fully 3D style of Sword & Shield? What new characters might we see? Will there be new mechanics? New Pokemon? New types? Time to speculate!

First, to go over Gen IV's most notable changes and flaws:

Spoiler

The most major change introduced in the original Gen IV was the Physical/Special split, which forever changed the metagame. Once-viable strategies stopped being viable (goodbye, Elemental Punches Alakazam) and once-useless Pokemon suddenly became highly useful.

D&P were the first mainline Pokemon games to incorporate 3D in any capacity, mixing 3D scenery with 2D sprites.

The most infamous addition in Gen IV was the sheer number of Evolutions & Pre-evolutions (22 Evolutions, 7 Pre-evolutions) for previous-Gen Pokemon as well as an unprecedented number of Legendary and Mythical Pokemon, weighing in at 9 legendaries (1 more than Gen III) and 5 mythical Pokemon (more than Gens I-III combined). In total, that's 53 Pokemon, or exactly half of the new Pokemon introduced in Generation IV (106). This was a point of much criticism back in the day, as nearly a quarter of the new Pokemon were derived from past-generation Pokemon. This would also contribute to a perceived overabundance of Legendary Pokemon, together with Gen V's own 9 legendary Pokemon, leading to Gen VI pulling back to just three legendary Pokemon.

Also infamously, Diamond & Pearl had hardly any Fire-Types present prior to acquiring the National Pokedex; only two families (the Chimchar and Ponyta families) and one legendary (Heatran) were readily available. This notably affected Elite Four Flint, who despite allegedly being a Fire-type specialist, had more Pokemon that weren't Fire-Type than Pokemon that were. Platinum would "fix" this by adding the Eevee family (including Flareon), the Magmar family (which already had an evolution added in DP despite not appearing in DP themselves), and the Houndour family, though despite this Fire was still a scarce type in the Sinnoh region.

Then we can also look at SWSH's major changes and flaws:

Spoiler

The biggest change to the gameplay - in more ways than one - is Dynamaxing, wherein Pokemon grow to giant size (and in some cases, change their form in an advanced version of Dynamaxing called Gigantamaxing) and their moves become Max moves, many of which have the ability to alter the terrain or weather.

Most egregiously, many Pokemon were removed outright in what is often called "Dexit". Many of the Pokemon left out by Dexit were later added back in during the Isle of Armor and Crown Tundra updates, but 234 yet remain.

Less infamously, many moves were removed from SWSH as well, becoming non-functional dummy moves despite the fact transferring non-Galar Pokemon to SWSH is currently impossible.

Companion Pokemon, a feature first introduced in Pokemon Yellow for the original Game Boy and brought back in HeartGold and SoulSilver, finally returned in the Isle of Armor and Crown Tundra DLC.

Now, what kinds of changes could we see in the DP Remakes?

Pokemon

Spoiler

DPR would be a good place to bring back many if not all of the 234 Pokemon currently left out by SWSH's "Dexit". Of course the remakes would presumably not have every Pokemon available within the games themselves, but they could be coded in for transfer compatibility. An update for SWSH that adds the remaining 234 Pokemon back in could release alongside DPR, allowing any and every Pokemon to be transferred to SWSH, thus fixing the most controversial aspect of those games.

Presumably, every Gen IV Pokemon returns in DPR, being remakes of the generation where they were introduced.

DPR could feature more Fire-Types than DPP did, helping balance Fire against other types.

Seeing as Companion Pokemon first returned during Gen IV's HGSS, it would be fitting to bring that feature back here, in remakes of Gen IV games.

Regional variants of Pokemon became popular after SM, so it's possible we could see Sinnoh variants of Pokemon not originally from Sinnoh.

Since Dynamaxing would presumably not be a major feature of DPR, Mega Evolutions could be brought back, following their return in Gen VII's Sun & Moon. Unlike Dynamaxing, Mega Evolution is not limited to a particular region, making it easier to incorporate into remakes of past games without drastically altering their backstories.

New Mega Evolutions could be introduced, particularly for Pokemon originating from Gen IV. In particular, I would suggest Torterra, Infernape, Empoleon, Staraptor, Luxray, Roserade, Rampardos, Bastiodon, Vespiquen, Floatzel, Mismagius, Honchkrow, Bronzong, Hippowdon, Drapion, Weavile, Electivire, Togekiss, Dusknoir, Froslass, Cresselia, Darkrai, and Shaymin.

Dialga and Palkia could receive Primal Reversion transformations much like Groudon and Kyogre before them. Giratina and Arceus could be candidates for such as well.

Trainers

Spoiler

Trainer customization has become a staple of the series ever since Gen VI's X and Y, so it stands to reason that DPR will have such customization as well.

The post-game could have various tournaments featuring Gym Leaders, Elite Four, and Champions from different regions, making their debut in HD 3D for the first time.

Moves

Spoiler

Ever since Gen III, moves have been split into contact and non-contact categories, before even the Physical/Special split. And yet, the contact/non-contact trait still doesn't have visual indication. Instead of just Physical/Special/Status, what if moves were sorted into five categories: Physical-Contact, Physical-Ranged, Special-Contact, Special-Ranged, and Status? Interestingly, this would align somewhat with the five Contest conditions seen in Gens III, IV, and VI: Cool, Beautiful, Cute, Smart, and Tough. However, the different categories would presumably combine with different conditions.

Battles

Spoiler

Triple Battles were introduced in Gen V's Black and White, and could be retroactively introduced to Sinnoh via DPR.

The addition of Triple Battles to DPR could allow teaming up with up to two Stat Trainers at once, like Riley and Buck or Cheryl and Marley.

Story

Spoiler

Many of the Legendary and Mythical Pokemon that originally had minimal or no plot relevance, such as Heatran, Regigigas, Manaphy, Darkrai, Shaymin, and Arceus, could get expanded roles with stories centered around them.

Other

Spoiler

Many expressed disappointment that SWSH did not have voice acting despite looking perfectly set up to do so. DPR could be the first mainline entries to incorporate voice acting.

I'm sure I'll come up with more in the future, but for now I'll leave this as food for thought. Feel free to speculate away!

Edited February 14, 2021 by Lord_Brand

[Venger_06]

The most important thing is not to make the same ORAS mistakes. Implementing the improvements made by the third version (Platinum in this case) is essential.

[Punished Dayni]

11 minutes ago, Maof06 said:

The most important thing is not to make the same ORAS mistakes. Implementing the improvements made by the third version (Platinum in this case) is essential.

Imagine if the game played as slowly as DP.

Course, expectations will be tempered by the last few generations. I won't speculate when we don't know for sure it's coming.

[trainer_derp]

4 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Since Dynamaxing would presumably not be a major feature of DPR

I wonder why people think this? Hoenn's backstory was retconned to include Mega Evolution, so it's likely GF will do the same for Sinnoh to include Dynamaxing. It's would be really strange for two sets of games in the same generation to have compatibility but use completely different mechanics.

[Interdimensional Observer]

27 minutes ago, trainer_derp said:

I wonder why people think this? Hoenn's backstory was retconned to include Mega Evolution, so it's likely GF will do the same for Sinnoh to include Dynamaxing. It's would be really strange for two sets of games in the same generation to have compatibility but use completely different mechanics.

The old Diamond Pokedex entry described Arceus as having shaped the world with a 1000 arms. For obvious reasons just from looking at Arceus, that entry was never utilized again.

It already has good BST and the Plates gimmick in its favor, but Dynamaxed 1000-Armed Creator God Arceus?

Edited February 14, 2021 by Interdimensional Observer

[trainer_derp]

8 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The old Diamond Pokedex entry described Arceus as having shaped the world with a 1000 arms. For obvious reasons just from looking at Arceus, that entry was never utilized again.

It already has good BST and the Plates gimmick in its favor, but Dynamaxed 1000-Armed Creator God Arceus?

I like this idea. Special G-max forms for the creation trio and Arceus is way cooler than Primal Reversion. Heck I wouldn't even mind if they were raid boss exclusive like Eternamax (who by the way, is a lot more powerful and thus feels significantly more legendary compared to everything before it).

[Lord_Brand]

6 hours ago, Dayni said:

we don't know for sure it's coming.

Just like we didn't know for sure that HGSS and ORAS were coming? Yeah, no, we all know DPR would be easy money. HD remakes of DP for Switch? They'll sell like hotcakes!

It would be cool to see something akin to Gigantamax for certain Pokemon, but I think most players preferred Mega Evolution over Dynamaxing (not to mention SWSH themselves state that Dynamaxing is exclusive to Galar, though I could still see it being programmed into DPR for online compatibility with SWSH). The Legendaries and Mythicals could get their own Gigantamax-esque transformations, something like Primal Reversion but cooler.

1000-Armed Arceus does sound like an epic superboss. Maybe they could add a new Temple of Arceus that involves Lugia, Ho-oh, Groudon, Kyogre, Rayquaza, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem, Xerneas, Yveltal, Zygarde, Solgaleo, Lunala, and Necrozma? Or a Tower of Arceus with tiers for the Lesser Legendaries, Greater Legendaries, and Mythicals.

I wonder: Could they be planning to remake most if not all the previous generations for Switch? Graphical facelifts for the previous games with some neat new content would be a good way to tide fans over until Gen IX is ready. They sorta remade Gen I already with Let's Go! Pikachu and Eevee, but those didn't feel like true remakes, they were more like spinoffs. 3D FireRed and LeafGreen is what fans want, I think. Only, maybe they could go back to the Red/Blue naming convention? Ah, but that's getting off-topic. This topic is all about Gen IV remakes. I'm tempted to make a separate topic for the prospect of remaking all the Generations for Switch, though. Or should I retool this topic into that?

Just got a cool idea: What if DPR introduced a Dialga-Palkia fusion? Dialkia, the Space-Time Pokemon! Basically a dragon centaur with the signature move, Rending Roar of Space-Time! Fusions with Giratina could be epic, too.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Lord_Brand

[Punished Dayni]

1 hour ago, Lord_Brand said:

Just like we didn't know for sure that HGSS and ORAS were coming? Yeah, no, we all know DPR would be easy money. HD remakes of DP for Switch? They'll sell like hotcakes!

I wonder.

Keep in mind they were a relative disappointment sales wise, on top of discourse being a bit heavier on the negative side at the time and there's still that there. 

Keep this in mind, I'm one of those who feels it peaked on DS (Hell, Platinum's still 3rd in my book, HGSS's 2nd and B2W2's first). When I say we don't know for sure, I mean that as it stands we're speculating entirely on expectation that the remake's coming. If it turns out that it isn't.... It would certainly be a surprise, but unlikely as it is, it's never impossible. Hell, maybe I'll be diving in afterwards. But for now, I have nothing to speculate on.

[Lord_Brand]

26 minutes ago, Dayni said:

I wonder.

Keep in mind they were a relative disappointment sales wise, on top of discourse being a bit heavier on the negative side at the time and there's still that there. 

Keep this in mind, I'm one of those who feels it peaked on DS (Hell, Platinum's still 3rd in my book, HGSS's 2nd and B2W2's first). When I say we don't know for sure, I mean that as it stands we're speculating entirely on expectation that the remake's coming. If it turns out that it isn't.... It would certainly be a surprise, but unlikely as it is, it's never impossible. Hell, maybe I'll be diving in afterwards. But for now, I have nothing to speculate on.

And yet, DP were the top-selling Pokemon DS games (followed by BW, then HGSS, then finally Platinum) and introduced many of the series' most popular characters and Pokemon, including Cynthia, Looker, Riley, Staraptor, Lopunny, Luxray, Garchomp, Gallade, Weavile, and of course none other than freaking Lucario, who is now considered a face of the franchise alongside Pikachu itself. They may have been divisive and polarizing, sure, but that doesn't mean they weren't popular. And modern HD remakes that do away with the issues seen in the original releases will only make them more popular. Since they have SWSH's assets to start with as a base, including a large majority of the Pokemon, they can simply add in the remaining 234 with DPR and that will basically undo Dexit. They also have 3D models from XY and SM to use as a starting point for characters like Cynthia.

[Venger_06]

11 hours ago, Dayni said:

Imagine if the game played as slowly as DP.

Hopefully this won't be a problem, since the Switch is more than capable of running Pokémon games. I'm afraid of them "forgetting" to add the new things Platinum brought to Sinnoh.

4 hours ago, Dayni said:

Keep this in mind, I'm one of those who feels it peaked on DS (Hell, Platinum's still 3rd in my book, HGSS's 2nd and B2W2's first).

A fellow man of culture, I see.

4 hours ago, Dayni said:

Keep in mind they were a relative disappointment sales wise, on top of discourse being a bit heavier on the negative side at the time and there's still that there. 

D/P weren't disappointments sales-wise. They outsold R/S and were even more critically acclaimed.

[Punished Dayni]

2 minutes ago, Maof06 said:

D/P weren't disappointments sales-wise. They outsold R/S and were even more critically acclaimed.

Certainly never thought they sold all that high, numbers show they sold 17.67 million copies, two million more copies than B/W, the lowest selling mainline titles (For gen starts). This compares with 16.22 for R/S, 16.49 for X/Y and 16.2 for S/M. Considering the market percentage and population size in the years between, seems like R/S could have been said to do comparatively better, but probably not a huge amount. Critically, I will admit a disconnect from GBA at the time, so I can admit fault there, but again, the gap's pretty small.

Wait did the pokefans lie to me all those years ago?

10 minutes ago, Maof06 said:

Hopefully this won't be a problem, since the Switch is more than capable of running Pokémon games. I'm afraid of them "forgetting" to add the new things Platinum brought to Sinnoh.

Fear implies the pessimist part of me wouldn't expect it. They will probably still do what they did in Europe for Platinum and remove the casino (To clarify, you couldn't play the slots, just pick up money on the floor), but that's a rating reason so no idea what would happen. Looker got added to everything except Sw/Sh, so chances are at least decent he could be safe

What might happen to the battle Tower/Frontier's the real worry, if we get an equivalent to what ORAS did that would suck.

[Lord_Brand]

They should just replace the Casino with a full-on minigame arcade, like what Pokemon Stadium 1 and 2 had. That way the tokens you earn are based on skill moreso than luck. They could even pay homage to classic arcade games, like a fighting game featuring Fighting-types that pays homage to titles like Street Fighter, Virtua Fighter, and Tekken, or games similar to Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, and Bust-a-Move.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Lord_Brand

[Lightcosmo]

As someone who thinks that HG/SS are the superior games, i'd still like to see D/P/PT get their time to shine. 

They had alot of decent ideas that just kinda... fell short, to me? Of course, please go more in depth with the poke seals, please! One of my favorite aspects of D/P.

[King Marth 64]

I do hope that they still keep the Platinum additions in the Diamond and Pearl Remake similar to like HeartGold and SoulSilver had kept the Crystal additions in. I know that Looker had first appeared in Platinum while he had been Recurring Appearance in the series after Platinum, I do want Looker, Charon, and Battle Frontier members from Platinum to return in the Diamond and Pearl Remake instead of being cut like in Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire.

Also, I do want to see some characters from Sword and Shield to appear in the Diamond and Pearl Remake and maybe some new characters added as well.

Edited February 15, 2021 by King Marth 64

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

I'd love to see new Megas, as well as the old Megas come back, but... it's not happening. Megas were the Gen VI mechanic, Z moves were Gen VII (they kept old megas, yes, but added no new ones), and Dynamax is Gen VIII. Best we can hope for is "Gigantimax" forms of certain Sinnoh Mons (probably the starters and legendary trio, at the very least).

Anyway, I'd like them to use Platinum as a template for the Dex. Possibly adding Sinnohese forms of later-gen Mons - say, Sinnohese Heatmor (Water-type) and Durant (Rock/Ground), or Sinnohese Oranguru (Normal/Dark) and Passimian (Ghost), for instance. The Battle Frontier coming back would be great, but I'm not holding my breath.

On 2/14/2021 at 8:39 PM, Lord_Brand said:

They should just replace the Casino with a full-on minigame arcade, like what Pokemon Stadium 1 and 2 had. That way the tokens you earn are based on skill moreso than luck. They could even pay homage to classic arcade games, like a fighting game featuring Fighting-types that pays homage to titles like Street Fighter, Virtua Fighter, and Tekken, or games similar to Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, and Bust-a-Move.

This is actually a really cool notion. Especially if you could link with friends, and play the minigames together. I think FRLG did an "arcade" like this, but I never really played that one. Still, I have a hard time seeing Game Freak put in the work for this.

On 2/14/2021 at 2:10 PM, Lord_Brand said:

I wonder: Could they be planning to remake most if not all the previous generations for Switch? Graphical facelifts for the previous games with some neat new content would be a good way to tide fans over until Gen IX is ready. They sorta remade Gen I already with Let's Go! Pikachu and Eevee, but those didn't feel like true remakes, they were more like spinoffs. 3D FireRed and LeafGreen is what fans want, I think. Only, maybe they could go back to the Red/Blue naming convention? Ah, but that's getting off-topic. This topic is all about Gen IV remakes. I'm tempted to make a separate topic for the prospect of remaking all the Generations for Switch, though. Or should I retool this topic into that?

That could be its own topic. Granted, I don't exactly see it happening - with the Virtual Console releases of Gens I and II, every region is playable in some form already, on the 3DS. Maybe they could port those to Switch, IDK. As for "3D Fire Red and Leaf Green"... please, no more Kanto. I joked that they'd "reremake Kanto" before remaking Sinnoh, now watch them "re-re-remake Kanto" before DP come back.

[Zanarkin]

kinda wished they had gone for a platinum remake. But hopefully they keep all the improvements and features of Platinum... I'll be very sad if we don't get the full Battle frontier at the very least. Also, I hope we get to go into Giratina's dimension as well. It would kinda suck if we don't 😕

[vanguard333]

Okay, so they've announced the remakes. Quick likes and dislikes before I get into speculation:

I like that the remakes are being outsourced; Gamefreak has demonstrated that they do not have the manpower to do two games at once, and this enables them to focus on Legends: Arceus.

I'm not sure about the art style. I don't think it looks bad; it actually looks like it could be neat. I just don't think it fits; the Sinnoh region was based on the island of Hokkaido, so it was designed as a cool, northern region (compared to the first three games) with an atmosphere of rich history and myth. I'm just not sure if this bright chibi art style fits that. I do think you can have a chibi art style that fits the region's climate and atmosphere, but I'm not sure if this one does. 

Now, onto speculation:

I wonder how they'll handle the stuff that used the DS pen without, well, the DS pen. How will making those treats for your Pokémon work? How will the radar for the underground work?

I wonder if they'll do anything to fix walking through deep snow. I understand using deep snow as an obstacle for traversal, but it wasn't a challenge; it was just an annoyance. I hope they'll add a snowshoes item to make traversing through the snow easier.

 

7 minutes ago, Zanarkin said:

kinda wished they had gone for a platinum remake. But hopefully they keep all the improvements and features of Platinum... I'll be very sad if we don't get the full Battle frontier at the very least. Also, I hope we get to go into Giratina's dimension as well. It would kinda suck if we don't 😕

Yeah; I was hoping for a Platinum remake as well. I really liked going into the Distortion World as well, and I liked how the champion Cynthia was heavily involved in the plot without taking away the protagonist's involvement. I don't remember the Battle Frontier; I don't think I played much of it, but I agree that it would be good to see these features return.