New Heroes: Enduring Legacy

[NegativeExponents-]

21 minutes ago, XRay said:

Spoilers:

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If the point is to avoid doubles, then I think Goddess Axe still wins out in my opinion because if you kill the enemy in two hits, they cannot double you if they are dead. And unlike infantry units with access to Null Follow-Up to shut down guaranteed doubles, Lex does not have access to that skill, so he can be taken out by the likes of Bramimond and Bold Fighter armors with a Special trigger on their follow up attacks, and Lex does not have the Atk to one shot those units to prevent their follow up attacks, but he does have a better chance of two shotting them with Goddess Axe.

High Spd builds are better against Spurn units though, but I do not think Lex is going to win any Spd checks against those units unless you are using him as a super tank in Aether Raids or something where he has a ton of stat support.

 

Spoiler

With tannenbaton support from Brady, specials aren't ever activating unless it's pre-charged or that Bold Fighter user happens to be using something like a killer weapon + glimmer/moonbow which would be odd.

I see your point with Bramimond though, to which I say, there's a decent chance of Bramimond running Hardy Bearing rendering Vantage useless, and even if he's not, I kinda doubt his low atk will be able to 1 round a Sturdy Impact Bramimond in the first place even with Goddess Axe.

Either he'll have to deal with him player phase, which shouldn't be too hard thanks to Bramimond's low spd and def when not initiating, or just let someone else handle him instead. I'm not exactly aiming to subject myself to soloing maps in Aether Raids so no reason I can't let someone better suited handle it.

 

[Sunwoo]

LEX'S RES IS LIKE NONEXISTENT

AS IN MINE IS LEVEL 14 AND STILL HAS NO VISIBLE RES

(In all fairness, he's -res. But still hilarious.)

[Florete]

Pathfinder gonna be fun.

[Fabulously Olivier]

Shame Lex has as much spd as he does. Not enough to be useful, but enough that its distribution elsewhere (atk) would have helped.

[Othin]

Huh, I'd been expecting those two to be valkyries with flying Canto and ranged attacks. Instead they're infantry giants with a new effect and melee attacks.

[zuibangde]

I quite like the new effects being introduced lately. I can see some creative/fun ways to play the game with a team of units with Canto + save skills + pathfinder. 

[XRay]

3 hours ago, NegativeExponents- said:

With tannenbaton support from Brady, specials aren't ever activating unless it's pre-charged or that Bold Fighter user happens to be using something like a killer weapon + glimmer/moonbow which would be odd.

A lot of units intentionally run Slaying Effect, Special cooldown count +1, and Moonbow/Ruptured Sky to bust tanks. 

3 hours ago, NegativeExponents- said:

I see your point with Bramimond though, to which I say, there's a decent chance of Bramimond running Hardy Bearing rendering Vantage useless, and even if he's not, I kinda doubt his low atk will be able to 1 round a Sturdy Impact Bramimond in the first place even with Goddess Axe.

Either he'll have to deal with him player phase, which shouldn't be too hard thanks to Bramimond's low spd and def when not initiating, or just let someone else handle him instead. I'm not exactly aiming to subject myself to soloing maps in Aether Raids so no reason I can't let someone better suited handle it.

Tanks should not run Vantage anyways, so if you are running Lex as a tank, it does not matter if Bramimond has Hardy Bearing.

Lex can still better survive by killing something with two hits rather than one hit, because Lex does not have the Atk to kill something in one hit as a Spd tank. Lex with Goddess Axe functions better as a "Spd" tank because Bold Fighter-Hardy Bearing enemies cannot land a hit between Meister effect's guaranteed two hits, whereas Bold Fighter enemies (even without Hardy Bearing) can land a hit between a Spd tank's two hits, potentially killing the Spd tank and not letting the Spd tank's second hit happen at all.

Here is the attack order of Goddess Axe under ideal circumstances:
Enemy Hit -> Lex Hit -> Lex Hit
Attack order if enemy has higher Spd or Bold Fighter:
Enemy Hit -> Lex Hit -> Lex Hit -> Enemy Hit
Attack order if enemy has Impact:
Enemy Hit -> Lex Hit -> Lex Hit

Here is the attack order of a Spd tank under ideal circumstances:
Enemy Hit -> Lex Hit -> Lex Hit
Attack order if enemy has higher Spd or Bold Fighter:
Enemy Hit -> Lex Hit -> Enemy Hit -> Lex Hit
Attack order if enemy has Impact:
Enemy Hit -> Lex Hit

Looking at the attack order above, Goddess Axe (or any Meister Weapon for that matter) already basically turns any tank into a "Spd" tank, so I do not see much benefit in increasing their Spd and when Meister Weapons already simulates the benefit of a Spd tank. And unlike infantry Spd tanks who can force the ideal circumstance to happen via Null Follow-Up, Lex does not have access to that, so he is much more likely to be interrupted between his first counter attack and second counter attack, or have his second attack completely negated.

In other words, Lex as a Spd tank is actually more likely to get doubled than avoiding a double, and Lex does not have access to the skills to help him avoid those doubles nor does he have the Spd to compete with high Spd units. If the goal is to avoid doubles, then Goddess Axe is the better route to go in my opinion rather than the traditional Spd tank route of increasing Spd.

[Kaden]

On the subject of Lex, I get that him being summonable means he can always show up compared to spending grails, but it still hasn't sunk in that Plegian M!Kris has the 37/37 base neutral offenses that he does. His defenses aren't good compared to other units where Lex definitely beats him in defense and Titania has better resistance, but for a speed tank and one who does have a weapon that can further bolster his defenses if his foe has an attack or defense penalty on them, I feel like unless you really, really like Lex or really, really want to try a speed tank build on him, Plegian M!Kris would be better and so would groom Marth or Titania for that matter since they're faster than Lex. I'd rather capitalize on him being the first Brave Axe cavalry who also has the first prf Brave Axe and one that works on both phases.

Speaking of an upcoming unit...

Spoiler

It's hilarious with what happened to Asbel. First he's introduced and unique refined Forseti's brings Lewyn's offenses on par with Asbel and offensively, does a similar thing to Asbel's Grafcalibur. Asbel has better defenses through Grafcalibur, a Killer effect is simply useful, and effective damage is always a nice bonus, but that was quite an interesting thing to happen. Now, as noted with Dithorba, Asbel introduced a skill, Spd/Res Oath, only for her to show up with it. What's next? The developers decide to be crazy and make a green infantry mage demote with Null Follow-Up or their tome essentially the same effects as his for the next regular new heroes banner? It's like Asbel's existence in Heroes was for his value to be brought down by either someone being brought up to his level or diminishing whatever neat, new thing he introduced by having the same or similar thing he does.

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Kaden

[NegativeExponents-]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

A lot of units intentionally run Slaying Effect, Special cooldown count +1, and Moonbow/Ruptured Sky to bust tanks. 

Tbh, it wouldn't really be a big deal getting hit by one of those. They're not exactly hard hitting specials, especially when an enemy would have to dedicate most of their kit just to pull that off. If that's what it takes to burst down a tank, it was either a terrible match up regardless or not a good tank to begin with.

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Tanks should not run Vantage anyways, so if you are running Lex as a tank, it does not matter if Bramimond has Hardy Bearing.

Well I wasn't advocating for giving a tank vantage. I was working under your example of having him be a counter-vantage nuke. Or at least I assumed that's what you were getting at when you said...

7 hours ago, XRay said:

but he does have a better chance of two shotting them with Goddess Axe.

But he would still fair poorly against Bramimond regardless because Distant Counter Lex at +atk, +10 merge, and +5 flowers only has 55 atk with Goddess Axe, bump it up to 61 with Fierce Stance in S slot or 62 if opting for a Brazen. Neither of which would be enough to 1 round an equally maxed out +atk Sturdy Impact Bramimond using his default Lull in the B slot and Lex ending up being one shot in return because of his pathetic magic bulk. And even though Lex only misses 1 rounding Bramimond by hair (3 or 1 hp depending on whether using Fierce Stance or Brazen EDIT: misses it by more. Forgot Void Tome gives +5 extra defense) it's pretty hard for Lex to get any extra attack from other sources as lull will shut down visible buffs and Impenetrable Darkness shuts down drives, goads, Brave Lucina's breath effect, etc., meanwhile, Bramimond would not be restricted by the support he could get and easily become beefier from team support EDIT: forgot that Bramimond would also have an S slot still available so any def boosting seal like Sturdy Blow or Atk/Def solo just make it even worse.

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Lex can still better survive by killing something with two hits rather than one hit, because Lex does not have the Atk to kill something in one hit as a Spd tank. Lex with Goddess Axe functions better as a "Spd" tank because Bold Fighter-Hardy Bearing enemies cannot land a hit between Meister effect's guaranteed two hits, whereas Bold Fighter enemies (even without Hardy Bearing) can land a hit between a Spd tank's two hits, potentially killing the Spd tank and not letting the Spd tank's second hit happen at all.

Here is the attack order of Goddess Axe under ideal circumstances:
Enemy Hit -> Lex Hit -> Lex Hit
Attack order if enemy has higher Spd or Bold Fighter:
Enemy Hit -> Lex Hit -> Lex Hit -> Enemy Hit
Attack order if enemy has Impact:
Enemy Hit -> Lex Hit -> Lex Hit

Here is the attack order of a Spd tank under ideal circumstances:
Enemy Hit -> Lex Hit -> Lex Hit
Attack order if enemy has higher Spd or Bold Fighter:
Enemy Hit -> Lex Hit -> Enemy Hit -> Lex Hit
Attack order if enemy has Impact:
Enemy Hit -> Lex Hit

Looking at the attack order above, Goddess Axe (or any Meister Weapon for that matter) already basically turns any tank into a "Spd" tank, so I do not see much benefit in increasing their Spd and when Meister Weapons already simulates the benefit of a Spd tank. And unlike infantry Spd tanks who can force the ideal circumstance to happen via Null Follow-Up, Lex does not have access to that, so he is much more likely to be interrupted between his first counter attack and second counter attack, or have his second attack completely negated.

In other words, Lex as a Spd tank is actually more likely to get doubled than avoiding a double, and Lex does not have access to the skills to help him avoid those doubles nor does he have the Spd to compete with high Spd units. If the goal is to avoid doubles, then Goddess Axe is the better route to go in my opinion rather than the traditional Spd tank route of increasing Spd.

Attacking twice doesn't mean much if the enemy isn't going down in 1 round, which Lex so far hasn't proven to able to do very well, even when going by one of your own hand picked examples in which he would supposedly stand a chance.

I stand by my opinion that it's better to focus lessening damage through good old def/spd stacking and self-sustaining, even if it means sacrificing his guaranteed doubles/taking an extra hit, over focusing on his questionable ability to 1 round enemies using Goddess Axe. Because enemies hitting you twice for 0 is better than enemies hitting you once for a ohko

Edited February 16, 2021 by NegativeExponents-

[Use the Falchion]

Nothing of value to really add to this, but I do wonder if, given the Nintendo Direct tomorrow and few (albeit untrustworthy) rumors of a FE remake, the new units are FE 4 units in order to prime the audience for a remake. Or if they're FE 4 units to assuage the feelings of anger/sadness if the remake is an FE 6/7 remake instead. ...assuming there's a remake at all. 

[Jotari]

Dissapointed Azelle isn't a mounted unit, guessing I'm not the only one.

Lex has some of the funniest forging bonds convos yet imo.

While she's another throw away Lance flier, I do love how Dithorba has a Firesweep Lance. It's like symbolic of how she ambushed Annand.

[GrandeRampel]

45 minutes ago, Jotari said:

While she's another throw away Lance flier, I do love how Dithorba has a Firesweep Lance. It's like symbolic of how she ambushed Annand.

She wasn't the one to ambush Annand tho. That was Pamela.

The one who looks the same but with longer hair.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, GrandeRampel said:

She wasn't the one to ambush Annand tho. That was Pamela.

The one who looks the same but with longer hair.

Oops 0.o Guess I'm reading more into it than what's there. Hard to keep track of who's who with so many identical looking characters who had different fan translation names.

On the subject of Jugdral Pegasus Knights, couldn't they have made one of em a staff flier? Not like the series is brimming with that potential movement combination.

Edited February 17, 2021 by Jotari

[Tybrosion]

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

On the subject of Jugdral Pegasus Knights, couldn't they have made one of em a staff flier? Not like the series is brimming with that potential movement combination.

No, because IS will only get creative in regards to non-seasonals when they feel like it (like Faye being an archer for no reason), and they don't get that feeling very often.

That, and they also have a ridiculous hard on for lancer fliers (their count is now at 33, while the number of sword fliers and axe fliers are 17 and 15 respectively).

[Vince777]

I always thought Faye’s class in Heroes was most attributable to miscommunication. Someone may not have known female villagers couldn’t be archers.
 

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

No, because IS will only get creative in regards to non-seasonals when they feel like it (like Faye being an archer for no reason), and they don't get that feeling very often.

That, and they also have a ridiculous hard on for lancer fliers (their count is now at 33, while the number of sword fliers and axe fliers are 17 and 15 respectively).

It doesn't even require a massive amount of creativity here. They get staffs on promotion in game anyway. Making Flayn a staff flier was more creative, given she can't use magic as a pegasus knight in game (well without the DLC class which looks visually different). They've given us units with their promoted weapons plenty of times, usually mercenaries with axes to avoid more sword infantry. Le sigh.

[Tybrosion]

44 minutes ago, Jotari said:

It doesn't even require a massive amount of creativity here. They get staffs on promotion in game anyway.

Yeah, and Duessel could straight up use axes right when he joins in FE8, but IS made him a lance cavalier instead even though there's literally three times as many lance cavs compared to axe cavs (27 to 9) at this point.

When in doubt, expect IS to pick the most vanilla option possible (like making both Miranda and Azelle infantry instead of making at least one of them a cav) as they do so more often than not.

[Othin]

18 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

Yeah, and Duessel could straight up use axes right when he joins in FE8, but IS made him a lance cavalier instead even though there's literally three times as many lance cavs compared to axe cavs (27 to 9) at this point.

When in doubt, expect IS to pick the most vanilla option possible (like making both Miranda and Azelle infantry instead of making at least one of them a cav) as they do so more often than not.

It seems like they've decided keeping certain classes rare, even relative to similar ones, is a feature rather than a bug.

[Jotari]

38 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

Yeah, and Duessel could straight up use axes right when he joins in FE8, but IS made him a lance cavalier instead even though there's literally three times as many lance cavs compared to axe cavs (27 to 9) at this point.

When in doubt, expect IS to pick the most vanilla option possible (like making both Miranda and Azelle infantry instead of making at least one of them a cav) as they do so more often than not.

I would have preferred if Duessel was an axe cavalier too, but the there is some sense to make him a lance cavalier as he does have personal lances in his supports with Cormag. Two in fact, one being the Cursed Lance Valter uses in Heroes, and another being Gavaelus, a lance he deems too beautiful to actually use in combat (hence neither of these wepaons actually appear in Sacred Stones in any kind of gameplay form).  I'm not sure if making him a lance cavalier was just standard stupidty or they were obscurely referencing this one support, though if they were referencing that support...why not call his prf weapon Gavaelus? That would have been cool fanservice. So it probably was just stupidity.

Course his best weapon as the axe wielding native of Grado would have been Garm. But Ephraim's a thieving bastard.

[Tybrosion]

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Two in fact, one being the Cursed Lance Valter uses in Heroes, and another being Gavaelus, a lance he deems too beautiful to actually use in combat (hence neither of these weapons actually appear in Sacred Stones in any kind of gameplay form).  I'm not sure if making him a lance cavalier was just standard stupidty or they were obscurely referencing this one support, though if they were referencing that support...why not call his prf weapon Gavaelus? That would have been cool fanservice. So it probably was just stupidity.

Duessel not only directly refers to that lance in one of his voice lines, he also has it on his person:

"This lance is one of the last weapons forged by Gavaleus. It is my pride and joy. Care for a closer look?"

Of course, it isn't made clear if that lance is just the one he actually uses in FEH (Obsidian Lance) or if it's a different lance entirely.

[Jotari]

3 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

Duessel not only directly refers to that lance in one of his voice lines, he also has it on his person:

"This lance is one of the last weapons forged by Gavaleus. It is my pride and joy. Care for a closer look?"

Of course, it isn't made clear if that lance is just the one he actually uses in FEH (Obsidian Lance) or if it's a different lance entirely.

Hmm, so I guess that was the intention, but calling it Obsidian Lance distances it from the actual source IMO. Though at least it makes it clear that they chose to make Duessel a lance cavalier for that reason.

[Sunwoo]

As cool as it would've been to have Erinys (or Annand) as a staff flier, I wouldn't be surprised if IS avoided giving them staves because they were going to be 5-star exclusives and they didn't want to make up staves for them, since neither of the sisters are canonically associated with a specific staff. The last two main pool 5-star staff units both got personal staves associated with them, so maybe that's what they're going for now?

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

As cool as it would've been to have Erinys (or Annand) as a staff flier, I wouldn't be surprised if IS avoided giving them staves because they were going to be 5-star exclusives and they didn't want to make up staves for them, since neither of the sisters are canonically associated with a specific staff. The last two main pool 5-star staff units both got personal staves associated with them, so maybe that's what they're going for now?

Well it's not like they particularly have lances associated with them either. They just make up stuff to give them. They easily could have invented a "Silessian Staff" with any effect imaginable, or, my preference use it as an opportunity to bring another staff into the game the is a staple of the series but not there yet. Just a few ideas off the top of my head.

Silence Staff: Works like Cadecus Staff, but only against magic attacks (and unlike Cadecus staff, its inheritable).

Sleep Staff: Passively inflicts the no counter attack status on enemies in two range (really they should have called the Flash staff the Sleep staff).

Fortify Staff: Passive healing like Herons and Sephiran's C skill.

Barrier Staff: Comes with Spur Res (or for a better effect, Drive Res).

Those are all staffs that are classics in the series, in Genealogy and would have effects reasonably powerful enough to be kept at 5* while also desirable enough to be inherited. For the assist slot Warp could be used as a combination of healing and shove (or maybe Smite). I would have said Return Staff, as that really should have been on a Genealogy unit given it's only in that game, though it was a Beta staff in Thracia with a rather novel effect, still not actually in the game though, so I would have preferred it on one of the Genealogy Pegs than Sara. What Sara really should have gotten was Rewarp as a Pivot Heal, not only is Rewarp a big part of Thracia as a gameplay element, but an assist that lets her personally move around could have synergized better than one where she moves others around.

Distractions aside, the overall point is that the potential is there, I'm sure they want to add more staffs eventually, putting them on flying units is as good as any other unit.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Jotari

[Sayyyaka]

ol' reliable DC + Vantage is sooooo fun with Lex I'm so happy they gave him a proper axe.

Too bad I'm low on orbs and can only get +2 for now, but it just means I have another goal in this game.

[Othin]

As FE4's roster of playable female characters dwindles, I wonder if they'll start bringing in substitutes. Substitutes are Gen 2 and it's more Gen 1 that's running low, but they could do cross-gen banners to take care of them.