Legendary Hero - Claude: King of Unification

[Some Jerk]

I can already tell that L!Claude is going to be a very rude unit in Aether Raids, both on Offense and on Defense, if the player doesn't have qualms about using Legendaries in their setups.

Reddit napkin math after identifying which Green Flier Claude is fighting in the trailer has let us identify some of his base stats:

Spoiler

HP: 41
Atk: 38
Res: 24

Spd and Def, the stats we need to figure out how to counter him, are currently unknowns because of course they are. I fully expect Spd to be something crazy even before his skillset kicks in, so the big mystery is his Def; having similar Def and Res to underscore his Player Phase role would be sensible, but given that Claude is a Wyvern rider which are known for having good Def, he could have a decent amount of physical bulk to ward off melee units until he can hit back.

Spoiler

Basically I want to know if I can hurl Silvia at Abyssal Claude and beat him into the ground with a quad before he gets the chance to do literally anything. Because outside of a Deadeye proc, blowing him the fuck up on Player Phase before he gets a shot off seems to be the only sensible way to deal with him.

 

[Othin]

5 minutes ago, Some Jerk said:

I can already tell that L!Claude is going to be a very rude unit in Aether Raids, both on Offense and on Defense, if the player doesn't have qualms about using Legendaries in their setups.

Reddit napkin math after identifying which Green Flier Claude is fighting in the trailer has let us identify some of his base stats:

  Hide contents

HP: 41
Atk: 38
Res: 24

Spd and Def, the stats we need to figure out how to counter him, are currently unknowns because of course they are. I fully expect Spd to be something crazy even before his skillset kicks in, so the big mystery is his Def; having similar Def and Res to underscore his Player Phase role would be sensible, but given that Claude is a Wyvern rider which are known for having good Def, he could have a decent amount of physical bulk to ward off melee units until he can hit back.

  Hide contents

Basically I want to know if I can hurl Silvia at Abyssal Claude and beat him into the ground with a quad before he gets the chance to do literally anything. Because outside of a Deadeye proc, blowing him the fuck up on Player Phase before he gets a shot off seems to be the only sensible way to deal with him.

 

Brave Claude has 42 HP, 36 Atk, 40 Spd, 23 Def, and 25 Res, for a total of 166. Legendary Claude has the same total HP/Atk/Res and a pretty similar distribution, so he should have a similar total Spd/Def, and probably a similar distribution as well.

[Ice Dragon]

7 hours ago, XRay said:

Based on what his skills imply, I am not a fan of his play style. He wants to play like a dual phase unit, but his enemy phase becomes totally shit after one hit, so anyone with a Brave Weapon can murder him, and any enemy team with more than one nuke can do the same.

No, he wants to play as a striker on Aether Raids defense, as he's nearly impossible to kill on counterattack and difficult to kill in one round of combat on the following phase, forcing them to spend two actions to kill him. He functions in a similar role to Tyrfing Seliph in getting in the challenger's face and being annoying to get rid of.

Just like Guard Bearing, Fallen Star's enemy-phase effect is not intended to be used to tank. It's intended to be used to waste the opponent's actions.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Ice Dragon

[XRay]

51 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

No, he wants to play as a striker on Aether Raids defense, as he's nearly impossible to kill on counterattack and difficult to kill in one round of combat on the following phase, forcing them to spend two actions to kill him. He functions in a similar role to Tyrfing Seliph in getting in the challenger's face and being annoying to get rid of.

Just like Guard Bearing, Fallen Star's enemy-phase effect is not intended to be used to tank. It's intended to be used to waste the opponent's actions.

He seems decent under AI control, but I do not see how his enemy phase effect is going to help accomplish wasting actions very much. A super tank is usually going to End Turn two or three times in a row anyways with maybe minor positioning changes to bait out all the nukes, and he is just going to die faster if Dancers/Singers let him attack the super tank again. Unless the super tank has Close Call, I do not think most super tanks want to leave their choke point to engage him on player phase.

I think it would be better if they removed his enemy phase effect and just made him a stronger player phase unit so that he can actually threaten super tanks like BH!Ike like LOAK!Líf.

[Othin]

20 minutes ago, XRay said:

He seems decent under AI control, but I do not see how his enemy phase effect is going to help accomplish wasting actions very much. A super tank is usually going to End Turn two or three times in a row anyways with maybe minor positioning changes to bait out all the nukes, and he is just going to die faster if Dancers/Singers let him attack the super tank again. Unless the super tank has Close Call, I do not think most super tanks want to leave their choke point to engage him on player phase.

I think it would be better if they removed his enemy phase effect and just made him a stronger player phase unit so that he can actually threaten super tanks like BH!Ike like LOAK!Líf.

Most offense teams don't have super tanks.

[Ice Dragon]

7 minutes ago, XRay said:

He seems decent under AI control, but I do not see how his enemy phase effect is going to help accomplish wasting actions very much. A super tank is usually going to End Turn two or three times in a row anyways with maybe minor positioning changes to bait out all the nukes, and he is just going to die faster if Dancers/Singers let him attack the super tank again. Unless the super tank has Close Call, I do not think most super tanks want to leave their choke point to engage him on player phase.

I think it would be better if they removed his enemy phase effect and just made him a stronger player phase unit so that he can actually threaten super tanks like BH!Ike like LOAK!Líf.

If you're spending turns ending turn, waiting for him to kill himself, then he's also doing his job of wasting your limited turns.

If the defense team has a dancer, you're the one dying faster, not Claude. Claude has 96% damage reduction on the first counterattack of his second round (and all subsequent rounds) of combat in one turn, meaning you're not doing squat to him with your counterattacks. You need to be hitting him for 26 damage before his damage reduction just to do 2 damage on your counterattack, and 51 damage before his damage reduction just to do 3 damage on your counterattack.

And if you really wanted your Claude to be able to shit on tanks and you have the resources, you can run him with Fatal Smoke and the Poison Strike Sacred Seal.

[XRay]

49 minutes ago, Othin said:

Most offense teams don't have super tanks.

If you are not going to tackle him with a super tank, you are going to tackle him with a nuke so you are going to hit him first. His enemy phase performance is non existent at that point since he has not set up Fallen Star yet. He is not going to be great in Astra because Reginn will just murder him and retreat, and Reginn is free. And once we get someone like Reginn for Light, he is not going to be that great in Light either.

41 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

If you're spending turns ending turn, waiting for him to kill himself, then he's also doing his job of wasting your limited turns.

But a lot of super tank teams are already Ending Turns consecutively anyways waiting for nukes to kill themselves, so throwing him on a defense team is not really changing things much.

41 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

If the defense team has a dancer, you're the one dying faster, not Claude. Claude has 96% damage reduction on the first counterattack of his second round (and all subsequent rounds) of combat in one turn, meaning you're not doing squat to him with your counterattacks. You need to be hitting him for 26 damage before his damage reduction just to do 2 damage on your counterattack, and 51 damage before his damage reduction just to do 3 damage on your counterattack.

He is only getting 96% damage reduction once on a hit per player phase. Fallen Star will last a whole turn as a status effect, but it only triggers during the first round of a phase. It does not even trigger for a full round either as it only works on the first hit of the first round, so a sufficiently fast super tank is going to double him and kill him on the second hit. Once he gets Danced/Sung to, he is back to 80% damage reduction for the first hit of every subsequent round of combat for that phase.

41 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

And if you really wanted your Claude to be able to shit on tanks and you have the resources, you can run him with Fatal Smoke and the Poison Strike Sacred Seal.

That is true, although that seems more of Fatal Smoke doing the work rather than him.

Edited February 25, 2021 by XRay

[Othin]

17 minutes ago, XRay said:

If you are not going to tackle him with a super tank, you are going to tackle him with a nuke so you are going to hit him first. His enemy phase performance is non existent at that point since he has not set up Fallen Star yet. He is not going to be great in Astra because Reginn will just murder him and retreat, and Reginn is free. And once we get someone like Reginn for Light, he is not going to be that great in Light either.

Speak for yourself - I use Gronnraven tanks. Cecilia in Light, Lyon in Astra.

Canto is great, but if he bounces off a Raven tank, he's a lot trickier for any nuke to pick off.

In practice, most teams don't follow one of the structures you consider optimal, even in the Vault.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Othin

[XRay]

4 minutes ago, Othin said:

Speak for yourself - I use Gronnraven tanks. Cecilia in Light, Lyon in Astra.

Canto is great, but if he bounces off a Raven tank, he's a lot trickier for any nuke to pick off.

Raven mages are okay, but they are very vulnerable to enemies who they do not have weapon triangle advantage against, so I am a bit skeptical of using them to replace super tanks.

[Othin]

19 minutes ago, XRay said:

Raven mages are okay, but they are very vulnerable to enemies who they do not have weapon triangle advantage against, so I am a bit skeptical of using them to replace super tanks.

They've gotten me most of my 31 gold thrones, so I'd say they work pretty well!

They do need Isolation support for full effectiveness though, and even then they aren't very helpful against some teams. I'm sure a properly built Brave Ike would be better, but they're very high-quality budget options.

My point is, in practice, most teams don't follow one of the structures you consider optimal. Even in the Vault, most people use teams with much less focus than that.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Othin

[Ice Dragon]

39 minutes ago, XRay said:

But a lot of super tank teams are already Ending Turns consecutively anyways waiting for nukes to kill themselves, so throwing him on a defense team is not really changing things much.

The difference is that Claude isn't killing himself. Most other nukes don't have the ability to survive enough rounds of combat, which is the only reason why letting them kill themselves is viable.

 

40 minutes ago, XRay said:

It does not even trigger for a full round either as it only works on the first hit of the first round, so a sufficiently fast super tank is going to double him and kill him on the second hit.

Assuming Legendary Claude has the same Spd as Brave Claude, a +0 Legendary Claude [+Spd] with no buffs would have 53 effective Spd with his base kit when Atk/Spd Catch is not active.

A +0+5 Legendary Claude [+Spd] with no buffs and Fatal Smoke has 57 Spd with the first stack of Atk/Spd Catch active (which is guaranteed to be active due to Fatal Smoke), which will require you to have 62 Spd to double. And if you use a dancer to remove Fatal Smoke, then Claude has once again succeeded in forcing you to waste an action to kill him.

 

49 minutes ago, XRay said:

That is true, although that seems more of Fatal Smoke doing the work rather than him.

Claude is contributing by not dying, allowing him to apply Fatal Smoke multiple turns in a row.

 

51 minutes ago, XRay said:

If you are not going to tackle him with a super tank, you are going to tackle him with a nuke so you are going to hit him first. His enemy phase performance is non existent at that point since he has not set up Fallen Star yet. He is not going to be great in Astra because Reginn will just murder him and retreat, and Reginn is free. And once we get someone like Reginn for Light, he is not going to be that great in Light either.

Reginn can't do squat with properly placed trap tiles.

[Othin]

25 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

A +0+5 Legendary Claude [+Spd] with no buffs and Fatal Smoke has 57 Spd with the first stack of Atk/Spd Catch active (which is guaranteed to be active due to Fatal Smoke)

Are you saying Fatal Smoke keeps Atk/Spd Catch active by keeping the opponent below 100% HP? Atk/Spd Catch wants the opponent to have 100% HP, not below 100% HP, unless the English translation got that wrong.

[Ice Dragon]

47 minutes ago, Othin said:

Are you saying Fatal Smoke keeps Atk/Spd Catch active by keeping the opponent below 100% HP? Atk/Spd Catch wants the opponent to have 100% HP, not below 100% HP, unless the English translation got that wrong.

Atk/Spd Catch activates its first stack when the opponent has either 100% or a penalty, and Fatal Smoke applies a penalty.

[Othin]

4 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Atk/Spd Catch activates its first stack when the opponent has either 100% or a penalty, and Fatal Smoke applies a penalty.

Ooh, right.

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Othin said:

They've gotten me most of my 31 gold thrones, so I'd say they work pretty well!

They do need Isolation support for full effectiveness though, and even then they aren't very helpful against some teams. I'm sure a properly built Brave Ike would be better, but they're very high-quality budget options.

My point is, in practice, most teams don't follow one of the structures you consider optimal. Even in the Vault, most people use teams with much less focus than that.

That is true.

Although BH!Ike is not exactly cheap, his first copy is still free. Distant Counter and Null Follow-Up are also available from Divine Codes, so he is not super expensive to build, and he can still work with M!Corrin and a relatively low budget set up. With Summoner Support and Flowers being a thing, he less reliant on merges for stat gain. He is not super amazing without Pulse Smoke and BH!Lucina, but he is still decent and can handle a lot of maps.

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Assuming Legendary Claude has the same Spd as Brave Claude, a +0 Legendary Claude [+Spd] with no buffs would have 53 effective Spd with his base kit when Atk/Spd Catch is not active.

A +0+5 Legendary Claude [+Spd] with no buffs and Fatal Smoke has 57 Spd with the first stack of Atk/Spd Catch active (which is guaranteed to be active due to Fatal Smoke), which will require you to have 62 Spd to double. And if you use a dancer to remove Fatal Smoke, then Claude has once again succeeded in forcing you to waste an action to kill him.

Summoner Support, Merges, and Flowers can provide Spd+7 (assuming latest unit). BH!Lucina with Ally Support can provide Spd+10. Double Mythics can give Spd+8. Spd/Res Solo Sacred Seal provides Spd+6. That is a total of 31 Spd.

A KOU!Claude +Spd +0+0 with base kit got 62 Spd (44 Spd from ANF!Claude + 18 Spd from base kit) under ideal scenario. Merges and Flowers will give Spd+5. Double Mythics will give Spd +8. That totals to 75 Spd.

If the player keeps Sabotage Spd on Plumeria or deploys two Peonys behind the tank, as long as the super tank can hit 42 or 43 Spd (75+5-31-7; 75+5-31-6) with an Asset and Weapon at +0+0, or have additional Flowers and stat support, the super tank should be able to double. I do not think BH!Ike can reach that high at +0+0 without external help, but F!Byleth, ANF!Dimitri, and SK!Dimitri can all get there.

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Reginn can't do squat with properly placed trap tiles.

That is true, but if we get ITM!Lyn for free, she can get Disarm Trap and can Galeforce out, and she would not impact your score either in the extra slot.

[Othin]

2 minutes ago, XRay said:

That is true.

Although BH!Ike is not exactly cheap, his first copy is still free. Distant Counter and Null Follow-Up are also available from Divine Codes, so he is not super expensive to build, and he can still work with M!Corrin and a relatively low budget set up. With Summoner Support and Flowers being a thing, he less reliant on merges for stat gain. He is not super amazing without Pulse Smoke and BH!Lucina, but he is still decent and can handle a lot of maps.

That's true. I should try putting some stuff I have on hand into him sometime and see how he compares.

[Ice Dragon]

8 minutes ago, XRay said:

I do not think BH!Ike can reach that high at +0+0 without external help, but F!Byleth, ANF!Dimitri, and SK!Dimitri can all get there.

Byleth and especially both Dimitris have extremely underwhelming Res stats, meaning any amount of overlap with common tome units, like Ophelia, Lilina, Lysithea, Bramimond, Lif, and Thrasir, could cause them trouble.

You also have to consider the possibility of defense teams that use Reposition to move the attacker back out of reach after attacking and the fact that Fallen Star also inflicts Gravity.

You don't need a flawlessly perfect unit to cause trouble on Aether Raids defense. All you need is something that will cause trouble for a large enough fraction of your challengers.

[Hengki Kusuma Adi]

The same Legendary Claude trailer video but edited in upside down

 

[silverserpent]

8 hours ago, XRay said:

Raven mages are okay, but they are very vulnerable to enemies who they do not have weapon triangle advantage against, so I am a bit skeptical of using them to replace super tanks.

Boey. Boey is amazing. I've also got M!Robin at +10. Since M!Robin has Bow Breakers, I'm not too worried about L!Claude since he doesn't have any form of NFU.

[Some Jerk]

Just now, silverserpent said:

Boey. Boey is amazing. I've also got M!Robin at +10. Since M!Robin has Bow Breakers, I'm not too worried about L!Claude since he doesn't have any form of NFU.

...You may want to check his weapon description again.

[silverserpent]

2 minutes ago, Some Jerk said:

...You may want to check his weapon description again.

...I missed that. Well, fuck. Guess I'll stack Def buffs and see how that goes?

[Tybrosion]

Claude's stats [SPOILERS]:

Spoiler

Super Asset(s): Spd, Res
Super Flaw(s): none

If the stat line looks familiar, that's because it's just his Brave's stat line after you deduct one point each from HP and Res and add one each to Atk and Spd.

Also, Atk/Spd Catch is off-limits to infantry and armors.

 

[Xenomata]

32 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

Claude's stats [SPOILERS]:

  Hide contents

Super Asset(s): Spd, Res
Super Flaw(s): none

If the stat line looks familiar, that's because it's just his Brave's stat line after you deduct one point each from HP and Res and add one each to Atk and Spd.

Also, Atk/Spd Catch is off-limits to infantry and armors.

 

Spoiler

Hm... yeah, kinda figured his actual defenses wouldn't be all that great.

Both timeskip Claudes have different ways of augmenting their bulk beyond raw stats... Brave by recovering half his HP per special trigger, and Legendary by reducing damage by 80% a lot of the time. That's kinda interesting.

Again though, Legendary Claude looks weak to Brave weapons, and isn't a unit who can remain sustained in a continual onslaught. He loses all his bonuses if he leaves the proximity of his allies on E-phase as well, so in AR-O he will be far weaker in a Lunge trap.

Yeah... think I'll skip this one. I actually am kinda glad though, I was thinking of focusing on putting a few merges on Halloween Robin...

 

[Sil/phire]

This guy looks like it's going to suck going up against in arena.

Not really interested in anything in this banner, I'm also disappointed it was not micaiah like every one thought but at least that means I get to save orbs.

Still, are there any units here you guys would recommend picking up? I don't have any one here except Melady, I thought a merge for her would be nice and Seliph looks sort of interesting.

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Sil/phire said:

This guy looks like it's going to suck going up against in arena.

Not really interested in anything in this banner, I'm also disappointed it was not micaiah like every one thought but at least that means I get to save orbs.

Still, are there any units here you guys would recommend picking up? I don't have any one here except Melady, I thought a merge for her would be nice and Seliph looks sort of interesting.

UOT!Leif, Triandra, and Mila are the only ones really worth aiming for in my opinion. You can maybe go for Annette if you can make a defense team to utilize her movement buff, but I would not go out of my way to try to get her.

Triandra could be particularly nasty if you can throw five of her on a defense team and run someone like BH!Ike or SK!Dimitri.

Edited February 26, 2021 by XRay