Stat Inflation throughout the Series

[Jotari]

So I've recently went to the painstaking trouble of getting the 20/20 averages for every playable unit in the series and compiling them into a list. This has allowed me to get the average end game stats for all the games in the series and in so doing, we can see how inflation has changed throughout the series. The results are as follows (the first three games in the series have been substituted by their remakes).

Game	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	Con	Mov	Total Growth Stats	Total All Stats
Shadow Dragon	43.96271186	19.25408163	13.57	19.16864407	19.47372881	15.61610169	13.88135593	5.876440678	16.31271186	7.542372881	150.8030647	174.6581494
Shadows Of Valentia	49.8745614	37.52982456	37.52982456	33.79649123	30.98947368	26.10438596	26.70701754	7.837894737	0	6.526315789	250.3694737	256.8957895
New Mystery Of The Emblem	48.24375	23.19071429	15.3725	22.83409091	23.03465909	19.94545455	16.24886364	6.765340909	NA	7.693181818	175.6353734	183.3285552
Genealogy Of The Holy War Gen 1	51.15833333	18.23913043	14.04	19.62916667	21.47916667	13.27916667	15.65416667	9.675	0	7.375	163.1541304	170.5291304
Genealogy Of The Holy War Gen2	60.53091787	18.9372549	15.35205128	22.08478261	24.3821256	23.94468599	17.53357488	9.369082126	0	6.961352657	192.1344753	199.0958279
Thracia 776	43.79711538	14.40307692	9.445192308	18.58173077	18.79807692	15.8625	12.74769231	9.445192308	11.99096154	8.194807692	143.0805769	163.2663462
Binding Blade	47.90241935	21.64021739	23	20.2983871	20.74758065	17.84596774	14.75983871	12.38032258	9.790322581	6.483870968	178.5747335	194.8489271
Blazing Blade	47.39659091	23.03787879	22.675	21.86931818	23.22840909	18.94545455	15.5125	15.45454545	9.329545455	6.431818182	188.119697	203.8810606
Sacred Stones	48.56538462	23.34363636	24.23409091	22.10897436	23.03846154	19.97564103	15.71410256	16.20064103	9.487179487	6.5	193.1809324	209.1681119
Path Of Radiance	49.10903846	23.34529412	12.740625	25.32307692	24.49134615	17.59923077	20.15365385	17.04	22.92893617	7.468085106	189.8022653	220.1992865
Radiant Dawn	57.95	32.24642857	19.10616438	35.10273973	33.74931507	29.88972603	28.56027397	27.87739726	31.06506849	7.534246575	264.482045	303.0813601
Awakening	58.62768421	27.40686842	16.22080263	31.85321053	31.39894737	26.35981579	24.26161842	17.08913158	NA	6.657894737	233.2180789	239.8759737
Fates	40.4954	26.81117886	16.70192308	27.9632	28.6314	24.6554	22.9268	21.9126	NA	6.656	210.0979019	216.7539019
Three Houses	49.31625	25.52625	21.4625	27.0275	26.12	19.76125	18.58	17.3025	5.10525	5.775	205.09625	215.9765

 

Bright green cells represent the highest value in the series for a stat, while blue represents the lowest. I've given too totals on the right. One for the stats that grow as you level up, so everything excluding con and move, and one including them too. Con here is taken to mean the stat that reduces weapon weight, so for some games it is equal to strength, and in others it's 0 where there is no mechanic to negate weapon weight, and where weapon weight doesn't exist at all, it's NA. There are of course a tonne of caveats as to how I got these numbers, if you're really interested you can read more here on the dedicated topic.

 

Overall the newer games have been accused of having higher stat inflation than the older games, and that is true to some extent, but by far the game with the highest stats over all was Radiant Dawn. Even when counting Shadows of Valentia's overclasses Radiant Dawn still managed to win out in every category except strength and magic (which are copied in Shadows of Valentia since hybrid units exist in it, unlike the game boy games). The one lone exception to this is Genealogy of the Holy War Gen 2, which has the highest HP stat in the series. This is both surprising, for such an early game in the series to have the highest stat, but also unsurprising when you consider units can get 100%+ HP growths and the cap is 70 in that game.

On the inverse, Fates has the lowest HP average in the series, which is pretty surprising, as Fateswakening is the go to example of stat inflation in my mind.

Thracia has the lowest stat total in the series, also rather unsurprising, I think. Scrolls were not factored in to the averages, but even if they were, universal 20 caps would still probably sick it at the bottom. It does have the highest movement in the series though, also unsurprising when you consider it's the only game that let's you grow the stat, though really I expect the number of mounted vs unmounted units is the real deciding factor there.

Res seems to be the stat that has fluctuated the least, being a direct line of increasing it's value throughout the series, with the exception of a leap in Radiant Dawn (which I think isn't entirely due to Radiant Dawn's massive inflation, but also just Radiant Dawn in general where a lot of unit's have comparable defense and res). Other stats, while there is an upward trend, tend to fluctuate more. Representing these numbers online graphs could be interesting too.

Highly possible I've made mistakes here, so if anything jumps out at you as particularly strange, then do question it.

EDIT:

Oh yeah. Something else I wanted to note were the averages of the stats across the series. In otherwords all the stats above added together and divided by the number of games. It results in this.

Game	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	Con	Mov
Series Averages	49.78072553	23.92227395	18.67504815	24.83152236	24.96876362	20.69891291	18.80296132	13.87329205	10.54636142	6.985710458

 

So then the game with the closest to average

HP is Shadows of Valentia

Str is Path of Radiance, the GBA games and New Mystery

Mag is Radiant Dawn, funnily enough. Super low in that game, but average for the series.

Skl is Path of Radiance

Spd is also Path of Radiance

Lck is Three Houses

Def  is also Three Houses

Res is Binding Blade

Con is Binding Blade too, but that stat is wildly variable based on how it's used in the series

Mov is Genealogy of the Holy War Gen 1, funnily enough given Gen 2 has the highest amount of move.

And then the game closest to the average growth stats over all is Genealogy Gen 2, I guess that's down to being in the cross section of old game and game with ugenics.

The game closest to the average calculating all stats is Sacred Stones.

 

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Jotari

[Interdimensional Observer]

8 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Overall the newer games have been accused of having higher stat inflation than the older games, and that is true to some extent, but by far the game with the highest stats over all was Radiant Dawn.

Once you get to grinding for Apotheosis or beyond 20/20 in Awakening, then the stat inflation is higher there I would say. Minimum 30 stat cap without personal modifiers, maximum cap of 45 without modifiers, 50 for Str. 

This also leaves out non-growth forms of stat increase, Pair Up, tonics, and rallies bumps up Awakening's stats again.

It is the case that a few Laguz classes can get multiple 20+, 40+ when shifted, stat caps. But reaching them is a different matter.

Fates having slightly less than PoR feels off to me, because PoR has 30 at its highest non-Laguz caps, whereas Fates puts it at 35 (or 40 for Str), is HP deflation the reason?

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Once you get to grinding for Apotheosis or beyond 20/20 in Awakening, then the stat inflation is higher there I would say. Minimum 30 stat cap without personal modifiers, maximum cap of 45 without modifiers, 50 for Str. 

This also leaves out non-growth forms of stat increase, Pair Up, tonics, and rallies bumps up Awakening's stats again.

Yeah, there was a question as to how to handle Awakening, because even in conventional play you're expect to reclass at least a few times. No real good solution though. Even counting caps (what Awakeningn eventually boils down to) would be bad as units hit caps at radically different points and caps are way higher than their focused stats. Shadows of Valentia I did include overclasses for, which are essentially post game stuff on par with Awakening's limit break, but I actually did all this a while ago and figuring out the non overclass caps for Shadows of Valentia would be time consuming.

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

It is the case that a few Laguz classes can get multiple 20+, 40+ when shifted, stat caps. But reaching them is a different matter.

Fates having slightly less than PoR feels off to me, because PoR has 30 at its highest non-Laguz caps, whereas Fates puts it at 35 (or 40 for Str), is HP deflation the reason?

For total caps, Fates is only losing to Path of Radiance because Path of Radiance has really high con (as it's identical to its strength stat) while Fates doesn't have con at all. The growth total without con or move factored in puts Fates at a comfortable 20 points above Path of Radiance. Path of Radiance does beat Fates in defense though. Which seems right. Path of Radiance is quite a bulky game.

[Seafarer]

I really don't think 20/20 stats are indicative of endgame stats in the vast majority of games. Particularly Awakening, where use of Second Seals is really important (which is why it's the poster child for FE stat inflation), but also in a lot of the older games, you're unlikely to reach 20/20 without excessive grinding.

Also not clear why you have Con in a bunch of games that don't have it as a stat (and strongly disagree with your stated reason). Weight mitigation and Con aren't synonyms, you know. And you appear to be missing Charm from TH?

I think a more useful line of inquiry would be looking at enemy stats, because player stats can vary so much based on playstyle.

Might be interesting to see data for FE1-3, too.

[BrightBow]

In Radiant Dawn it's not really 20/20 stats but 20/20/20 stats.
This alone could of course be seen as stat inflation, but considering how most of the cast already starts in 2nd tier or higher, the relative increase in power might be rather modest. The few 1st tier units are also infamously hard to bring up to speed with the rest of the cast.

Thracia and Mystery are also special cases, considering you can modify growths to an obscene degree.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Seafarer said:

I really don't think 20/20 stats are indicative of endgame stats in the vast majority of games. Particularly Awakening, where use of Second Seals is really important (which is why it's the poster child for FE stat inflation), but also in a lot of the older games, you're unlikely to reach 20/20 without excessive grinding.

Also not clear why you have Con in a bunch of games that don't have it as a stat (and strongly disagree with your stated reason). Weight mitigation and Con aren't synonyms, you know. And you appear to be missing Charm from TH?

I think a more useful line of inquiry would be looking at enemy stats, because player stats can vary so much based on playstyle.

I actually did calculated Charm in the original documented linked in the op. Three House's average charm is 22.5175. I just didn't see any use it noting it here given it's only appeared in one game and is thus a static stat. Three Houses, while I'm mentioning it, was a particularly subjective entree to calculate for, as characters have no set classes, so I used the classes they have either when they join your house from another house, or when you fight them as enemies.

1 hour ago, Seafarer said:

Might be interesting to see data for FE1-3, too.

If you can get me a source for the 20/20 stats for those games I could add them to the list.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Jotari

[Magical Glace]

11 hours ago, Jotari said:

On the inverse, Fates has the lowest HP average in the series, which is pretty surprising, as Fateswakening is the go to example of stat inflation in my mind.

Tbh, this doesn't seem very surprising at all.  Even a little bit of playing Fates and you'll notice that your HP stats seem to be trash near universally.  When I played CQ hard I'm pretty sure only a couple of my units even broke 40.  Units just can't take very many hits there.

[UNLEASH IT]

I think the reason for the Fates HP average is the heavy reduction of Class growths in HP. I don't think any class adds more than 30% which was like the bare minimum in New Mystery and Awakening.

[Jotari]

Okay, because I'm a crazy person, I went and statted the first three (or four) games in the series. Figured out a new method to automate 20/20 stats myself so it didn't take as long as I thought it would. I also redid the Shadows of Valentia stats so units promote as soon as they can rather than 20/20/20/20/20 which is ridiculously to actually achieve in that game.  The Gaiden stats also a bit wonky, as I had no way to account for class bases adjustments (I did for Shadows of Valentia as someone has made a calculator). Without further ado, here is actually the entire series.

Game	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	Con	Mov	Average G Stats	Average All Stats
Shadow Dragon NES	35.48076923	12.925	NA	13.09038462	15.68653846	12.9	11.92884615	0.1346153846	NA	7.192307692	14.59230769	13.66730769
Gaiden	37.365625	20.3234375	20.3234375	16.2953125	15.4140625	12.91875	13.1359375	7.09375	NA	6.175	17.85878906	16.56059028
Old Mystery Book 1	36.93953488	14.275	8.871428571	12.33846154	15.18076923	10.73636364	12.1804878	4.397391304	NA	7.47826087	14.36492962	13.5997442
Old Mystery Book 2	36.02790698	14.575	9.22	12.82857143	15.15	12.07272727	12.47727273	4.871777778	NA	7.622222222	14.65290702	13.87171982
Genealogy Of The Holy War Gen 1	51.15833333	18.23913043	14.04	19.62916667	21.47916667	13.27916667	15.65416667	9.675	0	7.375	20.3942663	17.05291304
Genealogy Of The Holy War Gen 2	60.53091787	18.9372549	15.35205128	22.08478261	24.3821256	23.94468599	17.53357488	9.369082126	0	6.961352657	24.01680941	19.90958279
Thracia 776	43.79711538	14.40307692	9.445192308	18.58173077	18.79807692	15.8625	12.74769231	9.445192308	11.99096154	8.194807692	17.88507212	16.32663462
Binding Blade	47.90241935	21.64021739	23	20.2983871	20.74758065	17.84596774	14.75983871	12.38032258	9.790322581	6.483870968	22.32184169	19.48489271
Blazing Blade	47.39659091	23.03787879	22.675	21.86931818	23.22840909	18.94545455	15.5125	15.45454545	9.329545455	6.431818182	23.51496212	20.38810606
Sacred Stones	48.56538462	23.34363636	24.23409091	22.10897436	23.03846154	19.97564103	15.71410256	16.20064103	9.487179487	6.5	24.14761655	20.91681119
Path Of Radiance	49.10903846	23.34529412	12.740625	25.32307692	24.49134615	17.59923077	20.15365385	17.04	22.92893617	7.468085106	23.72528316	22.01992865
Radiant Dawn	57.95	32.24642857	19.10616438	35.10273973	33.74931507	29.88972603	28.56027397	27.87739726	31.06506849	7.534246575	33.06025563	30.30813601
Shadow Dragon	43.96271186	19.25408163	13.57	19.16864407	19.47372881	15.61610169	13.88135593	5.876440678	16.31271186	7.542372881	18.85038309	17.46581494
New Mystery Of The Emblem	48.24375	23.19071429	15.3725	22.83409091	23.03465909	19.94545455	16.24886364	6.765340909	NA	7.693181818	21.95442167	20.36983947
Awakening	58.62768421	27.40686842	16.22080263	31.85321053	31.39894737	26.35981579	24.26161842	17.08913158	NA	6.657894737	29.15225987	26.65288596
Fates	40.4954	26.81117886	16.70192308	27.9632	28.6314	24.6554	22.9268	21.9126	NA	6.656	26.26223774	24.08376688
Shadows Of Valentia	42.9877193	24.61477273	19.86388889	18.58947368	18.43157895	13.7877193	15.89824561	9.061403509	0	6.333333333	20.40435025	16.95681353
Three Houses	49.31625	25.52625	21.4625	27.0275	26.12	19.76125	18.58	17.3025	5.10525	5.775	25.63703125	21.59765
Game	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	Con	Mov	Total Growth Stats	Total All Stats
Series Averages	46.43650841	21.33862338	16.59997674	21.4992792	22.13534256	18.11644194	16.78640171	11.77484066	10.54636142	7.004153041	21.83592683	19.22379291

 

The results are pretty unsurprising. Shadow Dragon on the NES takes most of the titles from Thracia for the lowest stat counts, though it's SNES Book counterpart takes a few. Note the hilariously low Res stat in Shadow Dragon NES, the result of every character in the game having a Res stat of 0 while Gotoh has a res stat of 7.

Another funny thing to note, is with the redoing of the Shadows of Valentia stats, The Sacred Stones takes the prize for highest valued Magic stat, which was released back to back with Path of Radiance, which featured the lowest magic stat. So bit of a weird year for magic there.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

It's weird to see Sacred Stones highest in anything. I assume the Magic averages only count magical units? Whereas, non-GBA/Valentia games would have a ton of physical units with unimpressive Magic, thus dragging the averages down.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

It's weird to see Sacred Stones highest in anything. I assume the Magic averages only count magical units? Whereas, non-GBA/Valentia games would have a ton of physical units with unimpressive Magic, thus dragging the averages down.

Yes, and no. I've removed what I call "Non competitive stats" form the averages. So if units have like less than 3 in a str or mag stat, it is removed from the averages list to avoid mages being way more powerful than they otherwise would be. Units with a somewhat decent magic stat that still aren't magical units retain their magic stats however, as magic weapons exist in most games and skills like Imbue in Radiant Dawn work off of magic. Sacred Stones being number one in magic is still most surely a result of that though, as physical units with a decentish magic stats is becoming more common in the series.