Which EXP system would you like to see in the next FE

[ciphertul]

Do you prefer the new EXP system in 3H over the old system? In 3H each level required more EXP to reach while in the older games each level had a static requirement of 100 EXP per level. While both are the same while playing normally, I find the 3H system less rewarding when trying to grind. The 3H system heavily suffers from diminishing returns as the game drags on making it harder to for those levels. I feel that 3H was designed with to many “unreachable peaks”. I do admit this is really only a concern when trying to overlevel but as someone who enjoys that, I would like to see a return to the old system.

[whase]

The old system felt special to me, all other games use systems similar to 3H as well. There might be a reason for that (like limiting overleveling for balance's sake), but it makes 3H a bit less special. I would like it better if they went back to the 100 exp bars, but wouldn't be too sour if they decide not to.

That said they could even work with percentage bars. In the code it would still work with exp points like 3H, but for looks and feels it would show 0-100 for how far you are for the next level. Just popped into my head, could be interesting, no clue if it'd work.

[X-Naut]

1 hour ago, whase said:

The old system felt special to me, all other games use systems similar to 3H as well. There might be a reason for that (like limiting overleveling for balance's sake), but it makes 3H a bit less special. I would like it better if they went back to the 100 exp bars, but wouldn't be too sour if they decide not to.

That said they could even work with percentage bars. In the code it would still work with exp points like 3H, but for looks and feels it would show 0-100 for how far you are for the next level. Just popped into my head, could be interesting, no clue if it'd work.

That's pretty much my thoughts behind it, you don't see the 100 EXP system too often in other RPGs.

I wouldn't call diminishing returns a bad thing, as it incentivizes using stronger heal spells and disincentivizes soloing being the optimal strategy; but it depends on how much the returns diminish. Unreachable peaks have been a thing in many RPGs that have become more common since Awakening for sure, but they existed before. It's just that, aside from Kaga HP caps, they were a lot lower and more limited. You're usually not getting to 20/20 for one, but 20/10 and 15/15 are a lot more feasible.

[ciphertul]

1 hour ago, whase said:

That said they could even work with percentage bars. In the code it would still work with exp points like 3H, but for looks and feels it would show 0-100 for how far you are for the next level. Just popped into my head, could be interesting, no clue if it'd work.

I honestly didn’t even think that it was an exp% bar but that does make sense. I feel that getting 1/100 is just better to see then 20/2000 even if they mean the same thing.

 

20 minutes ago, X-Naut said:

Unreachable peaks have been a thing in many RPGs that have become more common since Awakening for sure, but they existed before. It's just that, aside from Kaga HP caps, they were a lot lower and more limited. You're usually not getting to 20/20 for one, but 20/10 and 15/15 are a lot more feasible.

Unreachable peak do make sense in a linear FE but in FEs that allow grinding you “should” be able to reach at least the level cap. 3H has proven that while you can, you’re pretty lucky to get there with one unit you have absolutely coddled and the chances of getting a whole team there is next to nothing. I say it has diminishing returns because unlike other FEs that let you grind there is no “set” exp enemy so it reaches a point where everyone gives you 1% exp.

Edited February 25, 2021 by ciphertul

[vanguard333]

Honestly, for perhaps just one FE game just to try it out, I would like to see them try a mix of both of these systems and the exp system used in the Valkyria Chronicles games: in those games, the entire army is given a lump-sum of exp after the battle for various things (how quickly the mission was completed, how many of certain types of units were defeated, how many enemy bases were claimed, etc.), and then at the base, you spend that exp levelling up classes rather than individual units; i.e. you raise the level of all the units in the class simultaneously.

I would like to see FE experiment with something sort-of like this just to see if it could work for an FE game, as I think it would help avoid units falling behind and would mean that a unit who hasn't been useful very often wouldn't be under-levelled when there's suddenly a mission where they would be useful. 

[ciphertul]

4 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I would like to see FE experiment with something sort-of like this just to see if it could work for an FE game, as I think it would help avoid units falling behind and would mean that a unit who hasn't been useful very often wouldn't be under-levelled when there's suddenly a mission where they would be useful. 

This would be very odd, as if you used a couple of characters more then others they wouldn’t be any stronger. This style is good for not letting people fall behind but at the cost of preventing other from growing to strong, which is both good and bad.

[Use the Falchion]

7 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Honestly, for perhaps just one FE game just to try it out, I would like to see them try a mix of both of these systems and the exp system used in the Valkyria Chronicles games: in those games, the entire army is given a lump-sum of exp after the battle for various things (how quickly the mission was completed, how many of certain types of units were defeated, how many enemy bases were claimed, etc.), and then at the base, you spend that exp levelling up classes rather than individual units; i.e. you raise the level of all the units in the class simultaneously.

I would like to see FE experiment with something sort-of like this just to see if it could work for an FE game, as I think it would help avoid units falling behind and would mean that a unit who hasn't been useful very often wouldn't be under-levelled when there's suddenly a mission where they would be useful. 

I think the system works in Valkyria Chronicles because of the lack of class variety. Sure, characters have different stats and quirks, but there are 5-6 classes total, so it's feasible. I don't want to play a modern FE game with 4-6 classes total. 

 

But back to the main question at hand, I liked the Three Houses method, but it mostly works for that game. If the next FE game doesn't have that school training/studying component, then I don't think one needs to force it. I'd like to see Bonus Exp return eventually, but if there's no way to level up weapon skills outside of things like arms-scrolls, then it's not really useful these days. 

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

I'd like to see a progressive EXP system (that is, requirements increase as the level does), BUT with much smaller numbers. Also, keep doing the 3H thing where level doesn't change when promoting or reclassing. Fire Emblem has always been strong in terms of every point of a stat mattering, and I'd like to see them do that with experience too. Here's a sample system:

Units start as low as level 0. It takes 12 exp to get to level 1. Then 14 exp to get to level 2, 16 to level 3, ..., 30 exp to get to level 10. Every 10 levels, the marginal requirement increases: 33 exp to get to level 11, 36 to level 12, ..., 60 exp to level 20. To get to level 30 takes 100 exp, yada yada yada, then to get to level 40 takes 150 exp.

The beauty of this system? You can know how much exp an enemy will give you, at a glance. A unit will be "worth" EXP equal to their current level plus 5. How that's distributed depends on how they're dealt with. So if I'm fighting a level 10 enemy, their worth is 15 exp. Unit A damages them, and gets 2 exp (10% of their total, rounded up). Unit B whiffs, get no exp. Unit C finishes them off, and gets 11 exp. Wait, 11? Shouldn't it be 13? Nope, because Unit D was holding the EXP Share, and garnered 2 exp without even setting foot in combat.

Under such a system, you can carefully plan out who gets which kill, knowing how much you'll get, and what's required for a level-up. Rather than not knowing if one kill will be enough to get your unit to that next level, or if they'll be stuck at the dreaded 99 EXP. Obviously, there are still questions on how to scale support actions, like dancing and healing. I'd also like to see Rallies and Repositionals give EXP, so your units who specialize in those support techniques don't fall behind. Maybe limit the uses per map, like 3H-Healing? IDK.

[Interdimensional Observer]

I honestly forgot 3H had a different EXP system.😅

Maybe because it didn't feel that different in practice to me? I haven't a clue why.

 

9 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I'd also like to see Rallies and Repositionals give EXP, so your units who specialize in those support techniques don't fall behind. Maybe limit the uses per map, like 3H-Healing? IDK.

A turn-limit on Rally EXP gain? None beyond the 30th? Or perhaps, as with EXP gain from attacking enemies to prevent boss abuse, a gradual decrease in EXP gained from Rally use per map per character eventually reaching 0. After the 10th Rally Z character uses, their EXP gain from Rallying would start to decline, and hit 0 by the 21st?

[NinjaMonkey]

The "100 experience equals one level up" system.

[Fabulously Olivier]

The old exp system.

 

Except bring back Tellius style BEXP over auxiliary battle grinding. Having a system of bonus exp that was actually a finite resource and didn't disrupt the flow of gameplay with grinding was far superior.

[Alastor15243]

The old EXP system. Smaller numbers made it more manageable. That's kind of a big thing about Fire Emblem. Huge consequences for mistakes, but smaller, manageable, transparent numbers and systems.

[Axie]

as with most things gameplay, fates did it the best: 20/20 with each level being 100 exp, the exp curve being so that you quickly start gaining very little exp if you are overleveled, and the game assigns internal levels to promoted units so it's actually not that bad to give experience to the prepromotes or early promotes.

eternal seals were stupid though. that unused item from FESS that rolled back your level was a lot better because then your max level would still be 20. no jakob/felicia shenanigans in such a game though (and that was weird anyway).