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Gen IX Speculation: Theos (Greece)


Lord_Brand
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A couple weeks back, I posted a topic speculating on remakes of Pokemon Diamond & Pearl for Switch, following the pattern first established by FireRed & LeafGreen for GBA and followed by HeartGold & SoulSilver for DS and Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire for 3DS. A few days ago, what should be revealed but Pokemon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl? So now, it only stands to reason that we'll eventually get Pokemon Black & White remakes, probably within five years or so. Will it be for Switch? Or will we see a new, hopefully even better system launch by that time?

But of course, we can't forget that Pokemon Generation IX will likely have started by then. BWR could very well be part of Gen IX itself. This topic is thus dedicated to speculating on not just BWR but Gen IX as a whole. And like with any future Pokemon generation, that means exciting possibilities like new Types, new battle modes,  and even new gameplay mechanics.

So, what would you all like to see in Gen IX? Let's speculate!

Ever since Gen V brought us away from Japan-inspired regions and explored other parts of the world such as New York, France, Hawaii, and the UK, many fans have eagerly discussed how different states, countries, and groups of countries could be interpreted within Pokemon's world, such as Texas, Egypt, Greece, Italy, India, and Scandinavia. Since we just left the Europe-inspired Galar with colder climates, I figure someplace warmer is in order. We have yet to visit an arid region within the mainline games, so someplace based on Egypt and/or Arabia could be quite fun. Or, we could revisit the Americas and look to Texas or California for inspiration.

But honestly, I think a Greek region would offer the most excitement due to its highly prolific pantheon of gods, monsters, and heroes which would lend themselves well to Pokemon. Just imagine a legendary trio based on Zeus, Hades, and Poseidon. Perhaps they could be Flying/Electric, Ground/Ghost, and Water/Steel, respectively? I hereby propose the name "Xander" for this region, derived from "Alexander". I now prefer "Theos", as a nod to the region's focus on legendaries based on deities.

They could introduce a new Beast type, which would be given/added to Pokemon with beastly qualities (such as Arcanine, Luxray, and Pyroar).

They could introduce a Petrified status associated with the Rock-type, in anticipation of a Pokemon based on Medusa or Gorgons in general. Some past Rock-type moves could acquire Petrification as a possible side effect. Petrification could work similar to Freeze, but with the added property of making the Pokemon Rock-type (and therefore vulnerable to Grass, Water, Ground, Fighting, and Steel-type attacks). A new item would be added that cures petrification. Rock-types are immune to petrification for obvious reasons.

Some ideas for Pokemon:

Spoiler

"Grape cluster/Grapvine" (Grass) - Pokemon based on grapes and grapevines.

Amphora (Rock or Steel/Water or Poison) - An animate amphora jug that holds water or grape juice. They can be made from either clay (Rock) or bronze (Steel), and contain either water (Water) or grape juice (Poison).

Herculeon (Normal/Fighting) - A humanoid lion based on Hercules and the Nemean Lion. Could have a pre-evolution.

"Satyr" (Normal/Dark) - A bipedal goatlike Pokemon. Often enchants passersby with music and revelry for mischievous purposes.

"Centaur" (Normal) - A horselike Pokemon with two arms and four legs.

"Nymph" (Fairy) - Various Fairy-types (or a Fairy-type with various forms) based on Dryads (Fairy/Grass), Nereids (Fairy/Water), Oreads (Fairy/Ground), and Lampads (Fairy/Dark).

Chimyriad (Beast) - A Pokemon with the heads of a Pyroar and a Gogoat with an Arbok for a tail. This is based on the classical Chimera, which had the heads of a lion and a goat as well as a snake for a tail.

"Minotaur" (Fighting) - A Pokemon based on the Minotaur, found most notably in a labyrinth.

"Arachne" (Bug) - A drider-like Pokemon, inspired by the myth of the woman who was turned into a spider by Athena after besting her at a contest of weaving.

"Medusa" (Rock/Poison) - A snakeheaded Pokemon that can learn Stone Gaze, a move that inflicts the new Petrified status.

"Catoblepas" (Rock) - A bovine Pokemon that can also learn Stone Gaze.

"Sphinx" (Psychic/Flying) - Has two signature moves: Riddle (confuses the target) and Enigma Strike (deals double damage to confused Pokemon).

The Four Winds - A quartet of flying types based on the Anemoi: Boreas (Ice/Flying), Eurus (Water/Flying), Notus (Fire/Flying), and Zephyrus (Grass/Flying). Alternatively, these could be four forms of the same Pokemon.

"Persephone" (Grass or Ghost) - A Pokemon that changes form and type in accordance with the seasons.

Deity Trio - A trio of legendary Pokemon based on Zeus (Electric/Flying), Hades (Ghost/Ground), and Poseidon (Water). Possibly version mascots.

Pantheonic Legends - Legendary Pokemon based on other Greek deities. Each one could be associated with one of the Gym towns in Xander.

  • "Hestia" - Normal
  • "Ares" - Fighting
  • "Apollo" or "Hermes" - Flying
  • "Dionysus" - Poison
  • "Hephaestus" - Steel
  • "Artemis" - Beast
  • "Demeter" - Grass
  • "Athena" - Psychic
  • "Aphrodite" - Fairy

Xanderian variants

  • Ponyta & Rapidash (Normal/Flying) - Instead of horns, they feature wings as a reference to Pegasus.
  • Tauros (Ground) - Colored white as a nod to the Cretan Bull.
  • Houndour & Houndoom (Dark/Ground) - The Theosian variants feature two and three heads, respectively, as a nod to Orthrus and Cerberus.
  • Dubwool - Colored gold as a reference to Chrysomallos, the ram with the Golden Fleece

Returning Pokemon

  • Pichu, Pikachu, & Raichu - Of course.
  • Machop, Machoke, & Machamp - Machoke's Japanese name, Goriki, means "herculean strength", and Machamp's four arms bring to mind the hundred-handed giants.
  • Hoothoot & Noctowl - Owls were a symbol of Athena.
  • Ralts, Kirlia, Gardevoir, & Gallade - Gardevoir brings to mind various maidens and oracles of Greek myth, and Gallade's head crest brings to mind a hoplite's helmet.
  • Deino, Zweilous, and Hydreigon - They're based on Yamata no Orochi, a creature similar to the Greek Hydra.
  • Falinks - They were inspired by Greece to begin with.

That's it from me for now. Feel free to share your own ideas for Gen IX, be they for a Greece-inspired setting or something else!

Edited by Lord_Brand
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While generic, I would chance “Ares” to fire as he is more synonymous with it then fighting in general. Athena would be change to steel as her armaments are metal and she is strategic warfare so more defensive. I would remove Hephaestus and replace it with Nyx as a dark focus city as she was one of only 2 gods that even Zeus feared. You got a good idea so what would your starters be?

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My guess is that we won't see Generation 9 until 2023. For the last few generations, we've seen a new generation every three years, which would place the next one in late 2022. However, I'm going to guess that this will be pushed back due to a combination of covid-related slowdown, work and resources diverted into Legends: Arceus, and wanting to avoid some of the backlash over quality that Sword and Shield got. My guess is that they'll hit some time around about June 2023. I think the earliest they might release would be November 2022. Anything before then would surprise me greatly.

I doubt we'll see Unova remakes until generation 10. Except for FRLG, they've only done remakes in even numbered generations, and I'm going to guess that will continue. Handing the remakes off to another developer like they're doing with BDSP might mean they'll start doing more frequent remakes, but I'm guessing not. So I'm going to guess that Black and White remakes will be released in 2028. Which is honestly too far ahead to really speculate on.

For Gen 9, I'm going to guess that the setting will be inspired by China. This is partly because I think a return to East Asia is overdue, partly because China is such a rich setting they could draw a ton of inspiration from, and partly because I can imagine them wanting to chase after the Chinese market, which is huge and growing.

I don't think they will add any new types, and think it would be huge mistake for them to do so. In the past, new types have been added primarily to address balance issues. Dark and Steel were added (at least partly) to address how grossly overpowered Psychic types were in generation 1, and then Fairy served as a slight nerf to Dragon and slight buff to Poison and Steel. Unless they really need to do more rebalancing of that type, they should probably steer clear of new types. Even one new type adds interaction with all of the existing types, it adds a bunch of new moves, it adds the potential for weird interactions for all of those moves with every other move, every item, every ability, and so on. Basically, it adds a lot of extra weight of complexity to a series that is already struggling under the weight of 25 years of continuity (cf. the national dex controversy). If they don't want to do a complete series reboot and don't want the series to collapse under its own wight, they need to be very careful with adding things like extra types.

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  • 1 month later...
On 3/1/2021 at 9:17 AM, ciphertul said:

While generic, I would chance “Ares” to fire as he is more synonymous with it then fighting in general. Athena would be change to steel as her armaments are metal and she is strategic warfare so more defensive. I would remove Hephaestus and replace it with Nyx as a dark focus city as she was one of only 2 gods that even Zeus feared. You got a good idea so what would your starters be?

Or, how about Hephaestus becomes Fire and Athena becomes Steel? A Dark-focused city and Poke deity based on Nyx could work. I'd mix in a little Hecate myself. Ghost could also work for that purpose. Actually, what if the Dark town and gym were aligned with the villainous Team of Xalar? Team Nyx, perhaps? Or Team Titan?

But seeing as Galar had different gyms depending on which version you're playing, and is stated to have one Gym for each type, we could make that work for Xander as well. The analogies don't have to be 1:1 either; Theros of MtG mixed some tropes around to better fit its game design. Pokemon could do the same. So long as the source of inspiration is clear.

Here's what I got so far:

Spoiler

Fighting: Spara - A city dedicated to the fighting arts. Sparans train daily in rigorous exercises, including sparring with their own Pokemon. As a result, they're some of the fittest and most skilled Trainers around. Their Gym leader, Aren, is the strongest of all Sparans, who demands that anyone seeking to face him in battle must clear his Gym's physically exerting challenges. He himself was once the Xander region's Champion, and he's going to make darn sure anyone who succeeds him will be as physically fit and disciplined as he is. He has been known to spend the odd weekend in Luxuria to unwind from his rigorous weekly regimens and to visit the Gym leader of that city, whom he knows quite well on a personal level.

Poison: Amphora - A dilapidated town where thrillseekers gather to party hard into the night. Amphora has a seedy reputation due to its indulgent, decadent lifestyle, which has severely inhibited their chances of joining the Major League. Amphora's Gym Leader, Diony, loves grape juice, the town's specialty, and has the remarkable ability to conduct battles even while feeling a little tipsy; indeed, he seems to be at his best after drinking a little juice and letting his enthusiasm take over. When battling or partying (oftentimes both at the same time), Diony's energetic, theatrical, and charismatic, commanding attention and admiration from all around him. An entire cult of personality has formed around Diony, making him a celebrity among the low-end thrillseekers of Xander. However, he often experiences post-party crashes and suffers from depression and self-esteem issues when he thinks no-one's around. Diony feels he's leading his fans on a path to self-destruction, and blames himself for Amphora's inability to join the Major League as he helped cultivate their easygoing, party-hard attitude in the first place during his younger days. But he also feels he owes his fans a good time to make up for costing them their future as something greater and more respectable, keeping him trapped in a cycle of indulgence and self-deprecation. Team Nyx has been poking around Amphora, offering to help Diony improve their situation if he's willing to cooperate with them...

Flying: Anemopolis - A city dedicated to the study and worship of wind. Anemopolans are highly industrious, making use of wind-operated machinery and flying machines. Naturally, they're specialists in Flying-type Pokemon. Their Gym Leader is an inventor seeking to create wings humans can use to fly.

Fairy: Luxuria - A city dedicated to beauty, luxury, and romance. Lovers often gather here to make their fantasies come true. Luxuria is viewed as the high-class, respectable alternative to Amphora.

As for Starters, that's tricky since the starters don't always line up with a given region's theme. Empoleon and Serperior would have fit perfectly with Kalos, yet they were introduced in Sinnoh and Unova, respectively. The Starters we did get in Kalos consist of a hedgehog who gains armor, a fox who gains a magic wand, and a frog who becomes a ninja. So, the Greek theme might not have a lot of sway on the Starters, much as I'd prefer otherwise.

Since we've had a starter that evolves into a dragon, I could see Xander's starters likewise evolving into forms based on mythological monsters like the Hydra and the Phoenix. I could also see a warrior/weapon theme, where each starter is themed around a particular type of weapon such as a trident or a sickle.

I got another Pokemon idea, inspired by the story of Demeter, Persephone, and Hades: a Grass-type that turns into a Ghost-type and back to reflect the changing of the seasons. According to Greek myth, Persephone spends half the year with her mother Demeter and the other half with Hades in the underworld. While Persephone is with Demeter, Demeter feels happy and the earth flourishes, manifesting as Spring and Summer. When Persephone is with Hades, Demeter feels sad and gloomy, causing plants to wither away, manifesting as Fall and Winter. This Pokemon would be an embodiment of that myth, being a healthy, vibrant Grass-type during its Spring and Summer phases and a gloomy Ghost-type during its Fall and Winter phases.

And since I'm alluding to wine via grape juice, maybe we could have a Rock or Steel-type based on an amphora jug that's either part-Water or part-Poison depending on its contents? Heck, the Pokemon could have both clay and bronze material variants, making its primary type either Rock or Steel and its secondary type Water or Poison, allowing for four different possible type combinations: Rock/Water, Rock/Poison, Steel/Water, and Steel/Poison.

It would also make sense to have a Pokemon based on grapes themselves, either anthropomorphized like cherries as Cherrim or as part of a Pokemon like bananas and Tropius. Perhaps a grape cluster that evolves into a grapevine?

Speaking of grapes and intoxication, amethyst was said to ward off intoxication in Greek myth. So, perhaps a Rock/Poison-type Pokemon based on amethyst could appear?

Edited by Lord_Brand
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On 3/1/2021 at 12:07 AM, Lord_Brand said:

That's it from me for now. Feel free to share your own ideas for Gen IX, be they for a Greece-inspired setting or something else

I've thought about a Greek setting since you've brought it up. It's not necessarily my first pick for a region, but here's how I'd do it (let's call it "Grecia"):

You play as a 12-year-old girl named Artemis (or boy named Apollo) - you can control your nickname, but your birthname is fixed. You live on a small island with your father, Ulysses. A former Pokemon trainer, he's now retired, living as a fisherman and amateur Pokemon breeder. You begin the game with your mischievous pet - a level 5 Normal-type regional variant of Zorua. After getting to meet the people in your little village, your father takes you out sailing. There, he instructs you in the sailing mechanic - how to control the sails, consider the wind, and seek out wild Pokemon in the seas and the skies. Basically, think sailing in Wind Waker, or Phantom Hourglass. After this tutorial, you witness a surprise - a legendary Pokemon (either of the sea or sky, depending on version)!

On Day 2, you awake to a surprise: the three eggs your father had been incubating have hatched! A note invites you to choose one of these starters. You then climb the island's main hill to meet your father, facing trainers along the way - and Ulysses himself, at the top. After beating him, he promises another gift for you tomorrow - your 13th birthday. The next morning, you meet him at the docks - he's giving you his boat, so that you can set off on your very own Pokemon adventure!

In terms of the world, I'm imagining a mainland in the north and east, and open seas with a variety of islands in the east and south. The mainland is home to seven Temples, each specializing in one type and headed by a Sage  - as well as a Parthenon, where the Oracle resides. In Grecia, training and battling is regarded as a religious experience - and doing so at holy sites, a way to get in touch with the gods themselves. By challenging and defeating the Sages, you'll gain strength and recognition. Not to mention, the chance to battle at the Parthenon - the dream of trainers across the land.

In the first city - a major port - you meet a boy of similar age, named Phoebus (or a girl, named Diana). He similarly wants to challenge all the Temples, although he seems to hold a secret or two as well. Over the course of the game, you'll encounter him repeatedly - and not always on the friendliest of terms. You become rivals in every sense, with a connection that takes more than a few battles to unfold.

See, there's some discontent simmering under the surface - a group who disagree with the selection of the latest Oracle, and advance their own candidate in her place. Chief among their supporters are the Muses, who lead small Shrines scattered among the various islands - again, each specializing in one type. Battling the Muses, while optional, is a major motivation for visiting the islands. And while the Sages have a strict sequence, the Muses can be met and fought whenever, their power scaling in line with your progress.

Why else would you sail, when the "main story" is on the mainland? Well, each island offers you something unique. An endemic Mon, totally unique to that island (at least within the region, as some are brought back from older titles), and a unique Berry or Apricorn variety that each island offers. Some are inhabited, with shops that sell rare items. And others still are home to legendaries - some old, some new, and some old in new formes.

A new "gimmick" I would add is "Trainer Powers" (lame name, I know). You've worn a ring on a necklace since childhood - one that your father gave your mother, before she passed away. On your starting island, a neighbor gives you the "Normal Gem". Installed in the ring, it gives the following effect: passive healing (1/16) on all Normal-types you use. Each Shrine and Temple gives you a new "Type Gem" - install a Fire-type gem into the ring, and now the Passive healing goes to them instead. You can also find and buy new Bands - one that boosts Defense by one stage, another that grants immunity to status, and so on. And you can mix and match Bands and Gems, rendering the possibilities nearly endless (I think Bowser's Inside Story did something like this). Major trainers you fight - the Sages, Muses, your rival, etc. - will use the Rings to their own advantage, too.

So, what do you think?

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  • 3 months later...

I'm thinking of renaming the Greece-inspired region "Xandros". Though given the increased focus on deities, "Theos" could be a good name as well. As of now, I'm working with Theos as the name of the region.

Since the version legendaries would most likely be based on Zeus and Hades, I'm thinking Pokemon Sky and Pokemon Earth would be good version themes. There could be DLC themed on the sea, featuring a legendary Pokemon based on Poseidon and maybe an underwater city a la Atlantis.

The "Persephone" Pokemon could have four forms, one for each season: Grass/Water for Spring, Grass/Fire for Summer, Ghost/Ground for Fall, and Ghost/Ice for Winter. During the Spring and Summer, they can be found in fields and forests, while in the Fall and Winter they are instead found underground.

More Pokemon ideas:

  • "Basilisk"
    • Types: Dragon/Poison
    • Egg Groups: Monster
    • Another Pokemon that learns Stone Gaze. It's not Dragon/Rock, because the Basilisk is said to be not immune to its own gaze, thus a mirror is an effective way of dealing with them. Furthermore, they're said to be highly venomous, hence the Poison-type.
  • "Cockatrice"
    • Types: Dragon/Flying
    • Egg Groups: 
    • A counterpart to the Basilisk that likewise learns Stone Gaze and isn't part Rock-type either.
  • Cubmazon
    • Types: Beast/Fighting
    • Egg Groups: Undiscovered
    • An all-female species. Despite their small size and adorable looks, they are quite strong and fierce.
    • They are the female counterpart to Cubcules. Cubmazon are much more common than Cubcules in the wild, to reflect how real-life lion prides consist of numerous females and one or a few males.
  • Leonazon 
    • Types: Beast/Fighting
    • Egg Groups: Field/Human-Like
    • An all-female species of Pokemon that values strength. They test prospective mates in battle, and are highly protective of their young.
    • They are the female counterpart to Herculeon, much as Nidorina is to Nidoking. Like Cubazon, they appear more often in the wild than their male counterparts to reflect the ratio of male and female lions in real life.
  • "Harpy"
    • Types: Dark/Flying
    • Egg Groups: Avian
    • Prone to stealing food and valuables from passersby. Signature moves include Thief and Snatch. Their species is 100% female.
  • "Siren"
    • Types: Fairy/Flying
    • Egg Groups: Avian/
    • Uses Lovely Song to attract opposing Pokemon, making them lower their guards. 87.5% are female, 12.5% are male.
    • Unlike the Attract move, Lovely Song works on all viable Pokemon present, allowing the user to Attract multiple Pokemon at once in team battles, though it can be thwarted by Soundproof as well as Oblivious due to being a sound-based move.
  • "Nymph"
    • Types: Ground (mountain), Grass (forest), Water (river or sea), Fairy (field), Ghost (underground)
    • Egg Groups: Human-Like/Fairy
    • The form and type of this species varies based on the environment where you encounter it. This is based on the various kinds of Nymph in Greek myth, most notably the Dryads and Nereids.

Got item ideas as well:

  • Mirror Shield - A hold item that reflects vision-based moves such as Leer, Glare, Mean Look, and Stone Gaze. Obviously this is based on the reflective shield Perseus used to defeat Medusa in Greek myth. The fact a lot of Pokemon that use Stone Gaze aren't themselves Rock-type means the move can be turned against them.
  • Earplugs - A hold item that makes the Pokemon immune to sound-based moves such as Growl, Sing, and Roar, similar to the ability Soundproof. This is based on the earplugs Odysseus' crew used to resist the Sirens' song.
Edited by Lord_Brand
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