Valentian and Fodlan prf tomes shouldn't have had any sprites in this game

[Jotari]

So seeing Solon's big old tome (*cough* should have been a stave *cough*) on his Grand Hero Battle banner has reminded me of something that I've felt since basically day one. That units that have a prf tome and come from Shadows of Valentia or Three Houses just shouldn't have a sprite depicting their weapon in Heroes. Because magic users in those games don't use tomes. This isn't without precedent, as the prf weapons for a lot of dragons like Duma and Sothis don't have any associated sprite already (though I say without precedent, but Shadows of Valentia magic users were in the game before Grima, who I think was the first one to do this). And being more faithful to the game in this instance would actually save money as you don't have to come up with a new sprite design (course I doubt book sprites are the most expensive thing in the budget). And to preempt anyone who says it'd be weird when the weapon type is called tome to have a unit without a tome, it's actually called Blue/Red/Green/Grey(?) magic in Japanese, so no contradiction there at all. The only thing that'd be a bit strange is that back when not every single unit got a prf, Boey and Mae debuted with Celica and they had inhertiable weapons. But idk, I would have been totally fine with them getting sprites for their weapons but Celica using her own Ragnarok coming without a sprite. Or just special coding the game so that the units who use these weapons just never have that sprite display. They already make special variations of sprite display for units who dual wield. It's never going to happen now, and I don't think there's much that could be discussed on the matter, but it just sort of bugs me given how being faithful here would actually be easier than the alternative. I remember when the first trailer for Shadows Valentia came out and people immediately picked up on and liked how the magic users weren't holding tomes, which was a first for the 3D games.

[LoneStar]

Yeah I guess that could have been a thing. At least Icy Fimbulvetr looks pretty.

Maybe it would have been too cheap? You would have another group of people complaining that Heroes is being lazy by not giving them proper tomes.

[Jotari]

1 minute ago, LoneStar said:

Yeah I guess that could have been a thing. At least Icy Fimbulvetr looks pretty.

Maybe it would have been too cheap? You would have another group of people complaining that Heroes is being lazy by not giving them proper tomes.

I think anyone who's played the games would realize why. And any Heroes only players would be more confused than upset as it's only some specific units it happens for. Plus it's not like the characters waving their arms would need to look bad. And not like anyone complains that the dragons aren't all holding stones. Granted they have the big honking transformations so it's less an aspect of their visuals, but still, it would be such a minor point to complain about I wouldn't really consider the people that would complain about it worth the consideration (uh, let's just ignore that I'm also complaining about what is essentially the complete inverse).

[Acacia Sgt]

Considering that the kind of magic the Valentians use is taxing on them (the HP loss that comes as a price per spell), you can just headcanon that they're given proper Tomes and Staffs to use (Valentian clerics may wield staffs, but they are clearly merely for show since they still lose HP all the same), since otherwise it'd be a liability.

Can't speak about Fodlan spellcasters, though...

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

LCelica, BMicaiah, BLysithea and a few others have Prf tomes with no sprites, but not sure why Solon still has a book.

[Jotari]

5 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Considering that the kind of magic the Valentians use is taxing on them (the HP loss that comes as a price per spell), you can just headcanon that they're given proper Tomes and Staffs to use (Valentian clerics may wield staffs, but they are clearly merely for show since they still lose HP all the same), since otherwise it'd be a liability.

Can't speak about Fodlan spellcasters, though...

The thing about that is that they actually reference the HP drain in several effects.

1 minute ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

LCelica, BMicaiah, BLysithea and a few others have Prf tomes with no sprites, but not sure why Solon still has a book.

Huh. I have Legendary Celica but I didn't notice. I don't use her much given I have regular Celica. The fact that they've done it for more high profile characters just makes it more grating it's not standard.

[Othin]

46 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

LCelica, BMicaiah, BLysithea and a few others have Prf tomes with no sprites, but not sure why Solon still has a book.

Huh, that's interesting. Is it a case of brave/legendary units doing that while regular ones don't? An odd distinction if so, but at least it'd be consistent.

[Sunwoo]

Yune doesn't carry a tome either.

Personally, I think IS just doesn't think too hard about who should hold a tome or not. So it feels more like they've already established the precedent of characters holding tomes if they're a magic user, and it's only a few exceptions where they put the extra effort into no-tome animations.

[Tybrosion]

4 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

LCelica, BMicaiah, BLysithea and a few others have Prf tomes with no sprites, but not sure why Solon still has a book.

Brave Lysithea does have a tome in her chibi sprite, it can just be hard to see because it blends in with her outfit.

Plus, she’s very clearly holding a tome in her art (whereas Legendary Celica’s art has no tome).

[Ice Dragon]

Dheginhansea and Ena both carry dragonstones in Heroes despite the Laguz Dragon Tribe not using dragonstones. And the sprites and art make it clear that these are dragonstones and not Laguz Stones, having both the same shape as other dragonstones and the same dragon head design within.

Meanwhile, Duma, Mila, Naga, Garon, and Seiros have no dragonstones. Both Fallen versions of Corrin have no dragonstone despite all other dragon versions of Corrin having one. Expiration has no sprite, but Fallen and Legendary Grima will still have a dragonstone if equipped with a different weapon. Neither version of Sothis has a dragonstone, but she also doesn't transform (pretty fun to see her shoot flamethrowers, lightning bolts, and lasers out of her hand though).

Edited March 7, 2021 by Ice Dragon

[Othin]

39 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Dheginhansea and Ena both carry dragonstones in Heroes despite the Laguz Dragon Tribe not using dragonstones. And the sprites and art make it clear that these are dragonstones and not Laguz Stones, having both the same shape as other dragonstones and the same dragon head design within.

Meanwhile, Duma, Mila, Naga, Garon, and Seiros have no dragonstones. Both Fallen versions of Corrin have no dragonstone despite all other dragon versions of Corrin having one. Expiration has no sprite, but Fallen and Legendary Grima will still have a dragonstone if equipped with a different weapon. Neither version of Sothis has a dragonstone, but she also doesn't transform (pretty fun to see her shoot flamethrowers, lightning bolts, and lasers out of her hand though).

Dheginsea and Ena both have the excuse of their current versions not having prfs.

[Sunwoo]

The Fallen Corrins not having dragonstones make sense. Azura only gives them a dragonstone after their rampage, and it's implied that the dragonstone ensures that Corrin can control their dragon abilities.

[Mysterique Sign]

Yeah, that's also bothered me. It also bugs me that Rhajat has a tome instead of ofuda, but Adrift Azura and Camilla do so maybe future Hoshidan mages with Prfs will have ofuda instead

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Othin said:

Dheginsea and Ena both have the excuse of their current versions not having prfs.

Well they can, and as Ice Dragon has pointed out, do make sprites that don't hold any weapon at all. Grima always holds a dragonstone, but Expiration is invisible. While Duma doesn't hold a dragonstone at all (ie if you give Grima flametongue it will show in their hand, but not in Duma's hand). So it was absolutely possible for them to give the laguz inheritable weapons that just don't show up on their own sprite. I'd see the reason they didn't is less to do with them not being prfs and more to do with them being seasonals. Ie they wanted to use the weapons as part of the aesthetic. Hence how they sort of look like lanterns.

42 minutes ago, Mysterique Sign said:

Yeah, that's also bothered me. It also bugs me that Rhajat has a tome instead of ofuda, but Adrift Azura and Camilla do so maybe future Hoshidan mages with Prfs will have ofuda instead

Well Rahjat doesn't really pull form the Hoshidon aestetic, given the whole cosplaying as Tharja aspect. So it's not that unsurprising she lacks a scroll (personally I'm more disappointed they didn't do the most memorable thing about her, at least for me, which is give her the ability to summon Faceless #RhajatShouldHaveBeenABrawler). The likes of Orochi or Hyato coming with a tome would be a lot more glaring.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Jotari

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

4 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

Brave Lysithea does have a tome in her chibi sprite, it can just be hard to see because it blends in with her outfit.

Plus, she’s very clearly holding a tome in her art (whereas Legendary Celica’s art has no tome).

Yeah I definitely missed that. Guess Fodlan got "standardized" then.

[Mercakete]

The way I see it, their magical ability manifested into a tome when they arrived in Askr. Different world, different rules of magic, you know?

[Sayyyaka]

I agree completely but I think it's far too late.  I at least like the tome designs they came up with. Though-

4 hours ago, Mercakete said:

The way I see it, their magical ability manifested into a tome when they arrived in Askr. Different world, different rules of magic, you know?

-this is also kind of true.  Other mages might get too much shock seeing otherworldly prodigies such as Lorenz in a speedo shooting off spells without a tome like its nothing.  So maybe it was better like this for consistency's sake.

[Jotari]

On 3/8/2021 at 5:23 PM, Mercakete said:

The way I see it, their magical ability manifested into a tome when they arrived in Askr. Different world, different rules of magic, you know?

But then what about the few units who don't use times? Some of which like Celica are the exact same person as their tome welding alternatives.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Jotari

[Ice Dragon]

27 minutes ago, Jotari said:

But then what about the few units who don't use times? Some of which like Celica are the exact same person as their tome welding alternatives.

As best as I can tell, Yune, Legendary Celica, and Brave Micaiah are the only tome units with no sprite.

Yune gets a pass for being a literal god. Micaiah gets a pass for having not-birb Yune with her.

As for Celica, she's the only Valentian mage in an overclass, and it's reasonable to suspect that that allows her to cast magic without the need for a tome in this world, as there's otherwise nothing else that differentiates her from the other Valentian mages.

[Jotari]

18 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

As best as I can tell, Yune, Legendary Celica, and Brave Micaiah are the only tome units with no sprite.

Yune gets a pass for being a literal god. Micaiah gets a pass for having not-birb Yune with her.

As for Celica, she's the only Valentian mage in an overclass, and it's reasonable to suspect that that allows her to cast magic without the need for a tome in this world, as there's otherwise nothing else that differentiates her from the other Valentian mages.

Micaiah is particularly amusing given that everyone actually does use tomes in Radiant Dawn. I guess since they went that way for Yune too they're making it into a god like thing. That means we can at least expect Ashera to have an invisible tome too, which seems fitting. Though hearing there are certain units who don't have invisible weapons and are actually coded to ignore all weapons makes me think it's actually very easy they could retroactively patch that status onto a lot of preexisting units. Most of their animations wouldn't even look that off without a tome or staff. Totally not going to happen though, but they could do it.