Conrad's claim to the Throne

[Seazas]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

If Alm is undisputed king (he's not, it's quite disputed be Fernand) then why is Conrad telling Celica to ascend to the throne?

Fernand abandoned his kingdom, and even Fernand berates Clive for making "a boy you don't know from a gutter rat" king in their exchange within Chapter 3. So yes, Alm is undoubtedly the one being placed as future ruler of Zofia and then Rigel. Whether or not Alm would've accepted Zofia or give it to Celica is up in the air. There's more leaning toward the latter since Alm was willing to step down if the princess came in his stead. Ultimately, it does not matter as Alm performs a unification of Zofia and Rigel, with Celica by his side as his wife.

Simple. Conrad believing Celica is more fit to rule than Conrad, proving my point that no one was trying to make Conrad king nor see any reason to. Both Celica and Alm were potential rulers. Conrad stayed back and instead put his faith in his sister while everyone put faith in either Alm or Celica. 

Edited March 25, 2021 by Seazas

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Seazas said:

Fernand abandoned his kingdom, and even Fernand berates Clive for making "a boy you don't know from a gutter rat" king in their exchange within Chapter 3. So yes, Alm is undoubtedly the one being placed as future ruler of Zofia and then Rigel. Whether or not Alm would've accepted Zofia or give it to Celica is up in the air. There's more leaning toward the latter since Alm was willing to step down if the princess came in his stead. Ultimately, it does not matter as Alm performs a unification of Zofia and Rigel, with Celica by his side as his wife.

Alm also says repeatedly that he doesn't want to be King and doesn't like people saying they want him to be a king, so no, it's not some accepted fact throughout the game that Alm will be the next king of Zofia. He only starts taking the position of monarch seriously when he discovers he's Rudolf's son. You your self are saying that it's up in the air, while simultaneously saying the canon reason Conrad is not a candidate for King is because Alm is king.

3 hours ago, Seazas said:

Simple. Conrad believing Celica is more fit to rule than Conrad, proving my point that no one was trying to make Conrad king nor see any reason to. Both Celica and Alm were potential rulers. Conrad stayed back and instead put his faith in his sister while everyone put faith in either Alm or Celica. 

Celica, Alm and Conrad are the potential rulers, but the game doesn't realize Conrad's claim is actually better than Celica's.

[Seazas]

4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Alm also says repeatedly that he doesn't want to be King and doesn't like people saying they want him to be a king, so no, it's not some accepted fact throughout the game that Alm will be the next king of Zofia. He only starts taking the position of monarch seriously when he discovers he's Rudolf's son. You your self are saying that it's up in the air, while simultaneously saying the canon reason Conrad is not a candidate for King is because Alm is king.

Celica, Alm and Conrad are the potential rulers, but the game doesn't realize Conrad's claim is actually better than Celica's.

Alm is still treated as the future king, with both Luthier and Clive making it clear that he's fit for the position. Alm may feel differently but it explains why other characters do not turn to Conrad, they already see someone fit and that's Alm (or Celica). Also, no, I'm saying that if Alm and Celica were to hypothetically disagree on the Unification of Valentia, it's up in the air what Alm would've done if he found out about his ties to Rigel earlier. Actually read what I say, I did not say Alm being the king is up in the air lmao.

It doesn't matter and stops being worthwhile when Conrad already relinquishes his position to Celica instead and she outshines him. Conrad himself placing Celica as their hope, it's not hard to comprehend. Especially with how hard Valentia places value in brands, her claim is superior.

Edited March 25, 2021 by Seazas

[Jotari]

20 hours ago, Seazas said:

Alm is still treated as the future king, with both Luthier and Clive making it clear that he's fit for the position. Alm may feel differently but it explains why other characters do not turn to Conrad, they already see someone fit and that's Alm (or Celica). Also, no, I'm saying that if Alm and Celica were to hypothetically disagree on the Unification of Valentia, it's up in the air what Alm would've done if he found out about his ties to Rigel earlier. Actually read what I say, I did not say Alm being the king is up in the air lmao.

It doesn't matter and stops being worthwhile when Conrad already relinquishes his position to Celica instead and she outshines him. Conrad himself placing Celica as their hope, it's not hard to comprehend. Especially with how hard Valentia places value in brands, her claim is superior.

Alm is only considered for King because there are seemingly no other options from the actual line. Of the actual line there are two surviving members, Conrad and Celica, of which Conrad has the better claim. Him relinquishing that is something characters absolutely would notice and question.

[Seazas]

41 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Alm is only considered for King because there are seemingly no other options from the actual line. Of the actual line there are two surviving members, Conrad and Celica, of which Conrad has the better claim. Him relinquishing that is something characters absolutely would notice and question.

Alm is considered king because he's a major reason why they take back the castle and serves as a charismatic leader. It's not only because there's "no other options". If Alm wasn't suitable, Clive would've took the mantle or never mention Alm being fitting as king.

Celica already proved to be a fantastic leader and the one wearing the crown CONRAD provided. She also has a brand, which is hyped up in Valentian culture with years upon years of precedent importance in the official timeline. No one's going to question it when Celica and Alm were already accepted by their respective sides, even foes like Berkut say Alm is king and Jedah makes importance of Celica and her brand, not Conrad. The game consistently places value in the two main leads with Conrad himself long placing the crown on Celica and believing she can save them. The people put importance on Celica and what she's done for them, they would not cast her aside at that point just because Conrad's a man, he did nothing for them and only got out of hiding for Celica. Conrad did not fight of the pirates, Conrad did not try and free Est, Conrad never wore the crown. This shit is not as important as you're trying to push it to be nor does the game need to force some scene of asking that question when that would "potentially" happen after the game events are done with (as saving Mila took priority) and Valentia gets fully unified and put together.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Seazas

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Seazas said:

Alm is considered king because he's a major reason why they take back the castle and serves as a charismatic leader. It's not only because there's "no other options". If Alm wasn't suitable, Clive would've took the mantle or never mention Alm being fitting as king.

They also wouldn't have been considering Alm King at all if they had an actual heir on hand. Which Clive and co don't. Alm is the best choice they see considering they see no actual royals.

1 hour ago, Seazas said:

Celica already proved to be a fantastic leader and the one wearing the crown CONRAD provided. She also has a brand, which is hyped up in Valentian culture with years upon years of precedent importance in the official timeline. No one's going to question it when Celica and Alm were already accepted by their respective sides, even foes like Berkut say Alm is king and Jedah makes importance of Celica and her brand, not Conrad. The game consistently places value in the two main leads with Conrad himself long placing the crown on Celica and believing she can save them. The people put importance on Celica and what she's done for them, they would not cast her aside at that point just because Conrad's a man, he did nothing for them and only got out of hiding for Celica. Conrad did not fight of the pirates, Conrad did not try and free Est, Conrad never wore the crown. This shit is not as important as you're trying to push it to be nor does the game need to force some scene of asking that question when that would "potentially" happen after the game events are done with (as saving Mila took priority) and Valentia gets fully unified and put together.

You still seem to think I'm arguing that Conrad should be king. I have never said that I think he should be or that Celica is less qualified. The issue is that Conrad is the actual legitimate, rather indisputable, legal heir and absolutely nobody seems to notice that fact.

[Seazas]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

They also wouldn't have been considering Alm King at all if they had an actual heir on hand. Which Clive and co don't. Alm is the best choice they see considering they see no actual royals.

You still seem to think I'm arguing that Conrad should be king. I have never said that I think he should be or that Celica is less qualified. The issue is that Conrad is the actual legitimate, rather indisputable, legal heir and absolutely nobody seems to notice that fact.

But there wasn't so that's entirely hypothetical. Especially assuming if Conrad wouldn't just reject the Deliverance like Mycen did lmao. Conrad from what we see only ever has interest in protecting Celica. If he cared for the affairs he would've ran out and started doing stuff long before Celica came out of hiding. Alm proved himself worthy and thus the cast turned to him, end of story. They don't even see Conrad until the game's long over with. Meaning that discussion is literally impossible to have, that's like expecting Shadow Dragon to explore how Marth rebuilt his kingdom and handled things as a whole after the story has been told.

Nope, I see your argument and it doesn't work. Conrad did less, influenced 10x less people, did not lead, did not wear the crown, does not have the brand, etc. Celica is the polar opposite and Conrad is aware of how capable she is. He would be acting different if she wasn't capable. It's "not noticed" because the story's plot and events center around issues unrelated to Conrad. Especially when Celica is far more indisputable, legal and actively embracing it while Conrad does nothing but humbly protects her. All of the characters are either irrelevant in Fire Emblem tradition or don't really think about shit with the throne. Especially when Celica's side long accepted her as the one to "ascend to the throne".

Edited March 26, 2021 by Seazas

[Jotari]

9 hours ago, Seazas said:

But there wasn't so that's entirely hypothetical. Especially assuming if Conrad wouldn't just reject the Deliverance like Mycen did lmao. Conrad from what we see only ever has interest in protecting Celica. If he cared for the affairs he would've ran out and started doing stuff long before Celica came out of hiding. Alm proved himself worthy and thus the cast turned to him, end of story. They don't even see Conrad until the game's long over with. Meaning that discussion is literally impossible to have, that's like expecting Shadow Dragon to explore how Marth rebuilt his kingdom and handled things as a whole after the story has been told.

Nope, I see your argument and it doesn't work. Conrad did less, influenced 10x less people, did not lead, did not wear the crown, does not have the brand, etc. Celica is the polar opposite and Conrad is aware of how capable she is. He would be acting different if she wasn't capable. It's "not noticed" because the story's plot and events center around issues unrelated to Conrad. Especially when Celica is far more indisputable, legal and actively embracing it while Conrad does nothing but humbly protects her. All of the characters are either irrelevant in Fire Emblem tradition or don't really think about shit with the throne. Especially when Celica's side long accepted her as the one to "ascend to the throne".

My argument does work, because (and it baffels me that you still don't seem to get this) my argument is not about whether Conrad is more worthy for the throne than Celica. It's about the fact that he is more legitimate and absolutely nobody at any point acknowledges it.

[Seazas]

17 hours ago, Jotari said:

My argument does work, because (and it baffels me that you still don't seem to get this) my argument is not about whether Conrad is more worthy for the throne than Celica. It's about the fact that he is more legitimate and absolutely nobody at any point acknowledges it.

He is not more legitimate, he does not have the brand and did not engage on this topic. No one on Celica's side gives a shit about Conrad and already accepted Celica as their ruler. Celica is more worthy for reasons I have elaborated on. Especially when, by default, she's more worthy when Conrad actively relinquishes it and the only ones who would care to have a potential discussion about Conrad's position (Clive or Berkut) are not present in Celica's route. The game's story is not about who gets the throne, it was focusing on matters that Gaiden primarily centered around and anything with Conrad would be a discussion long after the story Gaiden wanted to tell. 

No, Mae and Boey would not talk about it. They are commoners that just wanted to get Mila and protect Celica, they express as such. Long accepting her as the one to lead them thanks to CONRAD's coronation.

It's just dumb to complain that a story didn't focus on something it never intended to focus on, especially when Alm and Celica were consistently made both in and out of game to be more important. Nothing but an iffy nitpick.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Seazas

[Ottservia]

6 hours ago, Seazas said:

It's just dumb to complain that a story didn't focus on something it never intended to focus on, especially when Alm and Celica were consistently made both in and out of game to be more important. Nothing but an iffy nitpick.

While I completely agree with this sentiment, it’s not wrong to feel the way he does about this. I mean I wouldn’t call it valid or constructive criticism at all because I don’t think it is but nothing wrong with airing personal grievances with a story so long as one understands that the quality of the work is not dictated by one’s personal preferences.

[Seazas]

1 hour ago, Ottservia said:

While I completely agree with this sentiment, it’s not wrong to feel the way he does about this. I mean I wouldn’t call it valid or constructive criticism at all because I don’t think it is but nothing wrong with airing personal grievances with a story so long as one understands that the quality of the work is not dictated by one’s personal preferences.

It's just... people trying to make it out to be a flaw of Echoes' writing for not focusing on a disposable side character who already put importance in Celica over himself irks me. Anything with Conrad's future position is stuff unrelated to the current story. It's like shitting on Shadow Dragon for not focusing on "how Marth rebuilds Archanea" over the actual story of Marth taking back his kingdom and stopping Gharnef. Or giving guff to Genealogy for not dedicating scenes of Seliph's rule AFTER the war was already finished.

Edited March 28, 2021 by Seazas

[Jotari]

9 hours ago, Seazas said:

He is not more legitimate, he does not have the brand and did not engage on this topic. No one on Celica's side gives a shit about Conrad and already accepted Celica as their ruler. Celica is more worthy for reasons I have elaborated on. Especially when, by default, she's more worthy when Conrad actively relinquishes it and the only ones who would care to have a potential discussion about Conrad's position (Clive or Berkut) are not present in Celica's route. The game's story is not about who gets the throne, it was focusing on matters that Gaiden primarily centered around and anything with Conrad would be a discussion long after the story Gaiden wanted to tell. 

No, Mae and Boey would not talk about it. They are commoners that just wanted to get Mila and protect Celica, they express as such. Long accepting her as the one to lead them thanks to CONRAD's coronation.

It's just dumb to complain that a story didn't focus on something it never intended to focus on, especially when Alm and Celica were consistently made both in and out of game to be more important. Nothing but an iffy nitpick.

Really, give my last comment a good read. A real good read, try to actually process what I wrote there, and then take a look at this conversation again. Read why I'm actually saying instead of what you think I'm saying.

Edited March 28, 2021 by Jotari

[Seazas]

8 hours ago, Jotari said:

Really, give my last comment a good read. A real good read, try to actually process what I wrote there, and then take a look at this conversation again. Read why I'm actually saying instead of what you think I'm saying.

Again, Conrad is not more worthy. He relinquished his position in front of the people who would potentially ask him on Celica's route. Celica has the crown and brand, the only one who would be mildly curious where Conrad fits in things (Berkut and Clive) are not present in her route. Conrad's entire mission was centered around Celica and encouraged her to rule and lead over him. It's not an important detail and it's something that would only be mentioned long after the game's intentional story is over and done with.

[Jotari]

16 hours ago, Seazas said:

Again, Conrad is not more worthy. He relinquished his position in front of the people who would potentially ask him on Celica's route. Celica has the crown and brand, the only one who would be mildly curious where Conrad fits in things (Berkut and Clive) are not present in her route. Conrad's entire mission was centered around Celica and encouraged her to rule and lead over him. It's not an important detail and it's something that would only be mentioned long after the game's intentional story is over and done with.

Wow are you seriously still not getting it? I'll just quote myself again.

On 3/27/2021 at 1:16 AM, Jotari said:

My argument does work, because (and it baffels me that you still don't seem to get this) my argument is not about whether Conrad is more worthy for the throne than Celica. It's about the fact that he is more legitimate and absolutely nobody at any point acknowledges it.

 

[Acacia Sgt]

Thing is, your claim that he is more legitimate is... that, a claim. Since your assumption that Zofia follows standard primogeniture is... that, an assumption. We at least have evidence that Rigel places priority on brand-bearers, but nothing on Zofia's succession laws. So you can't take for granted whether or not Conrad should've taken the throne over Celica or not.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Thing is, your claim that he is more legitimate is... that, a claim. Since your assumption that Zofia follows standard primogeniture is... that, an assumption. We at least have evidence that Rigel places priority on brand-bearers, but nothing on Zofia's succession laws. So you can't take for granted whether or not Conrad should've taken the throne over Celica or not.

We know from out of game sources that Rudolf had a brand, which doesn't necessarily suggest Rigel had any tradition of inheritance in regards to brand bearers. People start treating Alm as emperor when they find out he's Rudolf's son, not when they discover he has a brand. In fact Zeke doesn't even really know what the brand is and just follows Alm because Rudolf told him to (granted Zeke is a foreigner who's been there a ridiculously short amount of time for his position of prominence because they wanted to shove him into Mystery of the Emblem Book II, so it is somewhat conceivable that he just doesn't know how succession in this kingdom works). Berkut, the one who has the most issue with Alm showing up says

Berkut: It’s not possible… Alm is the emperor’s true son? Which makes him the rightful successor to the imperial throne.

He doesn't say Alm has the brand, that makes him the emperor, it's specifically that he's Rudolf's son. The brand never comes up at all. The game does nothing to suggest either kingdom follows anything other than standard inheritance. Even when the suggestions of making Alm king come up the fact that he has the brand is never brought up as a point in his favor. If that is an aspect of the world (like it is in Three Houses) then it's the game's job to actually show that it's different to the norm. For all we know inheritance could be based on the person who has the most Ls in their name, but unless the game actually shows that as an aspect of society, it's not a part of the story.

 

EDIT: Jut found a smoking gun. Pretty explicit direct proof that Zofia has primogeniture. Lukas's base conversation.

Lukas: You know, I have an elder brother, but I would not say we are close. We don’t share the same mother, for one. As the elder, he will succeed my father and inherit the family estate. Yet still he sees me as a rival. As such, when word rose of the Deliverance, my brother was overjoyed. He ordered me to leave home and enlist at once. In truth, it was a cunning plan. If Desaix won, he could simply feign ignorance. But if the Deliverance won, he could name himself as its benefactor. …Ah, well. That’s enough musing for one day, I think. Regardless of how I arrived, I am deeply glad to have joined the Deliverance.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Jotari

[Seazas]

20 hours ago, Jotari said:

Wow are you seriously still not getting it? I'll just quote myself again.

 

You mentioned that Conrad is "more legitimate", he's not. Celica is just as legitimate, she has the hyped up brand and is just as much of a royal. She's Lima's child too and has a place on the throne. Moreso when Conrad puts everything on her shoulders in front of everyone and Celica actively cared about helping her people, Conrad did not. This is literally the most worthless thing to complain about. "How DARE they not force some drama with a character who already placed importance onto Celica! Bad writing!!11" The story was never about "who gets the throne" lmao.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Seazas

[Jotari]

11 hours ago, Seazas said:

You mentioned that Conrad is "more legitimate", he's not. Celica is just as legitimate, she has the hyped up brand and is just as much of a royal. She's Lima's child too and has a place on the throne. Moreso when Conrad puts everything on her shoulders in front of everyone and Celica actively cared about helping her people, Conrad did not. This is literally the most worthless thing to complain about. "How DARE they not force some drama with a character who already placed importance onto Celica! Bad writing!!11" The story was never about "who gets the throne" lmao.

He is more legitimate because he's Celica's elder brother.

[Ottservia]

On 3/29/2021 at 12:44 AM, Jotari said:

He doesn't say Alm has the brand, that makes him the emperor, it's specifically that he's Rudolf's son. The brand never comes up at all. The game does nothing to suggest either kingdom follows anything other than standard inheritance. Even when the suggestions of making Alm king come up the fact that he has the brand is never brought up as a point in his favor. If that is an aspect of the world (like it is in Three Houses) then it's the game's job to actually show that it's different to the norm. For all we know inheritance could be based on the person who has the most Ls in their name, but unless the game actually shows that as an aspect of society, it's not a part of the story.

Not necessarily that depends on the story and message it’s trying to tell. If the story puts heavy emphasis on such things to tell its larger message then yes it does need to explain those things. In situations where it’s more of a footnote, I don’t believe it to be necessary. That sort of stuff is best left to supplementary material like artbooks, anthology comics, tie in novels, etc. where those things can be freely explored without bogging down the overarching narrative. World building isn’t the end all be all. In my experience it’s probably the least important aspect of storytelling but that’s just me.

[Jotari]

53 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Not necessarily that depends on the story and message it’s trying to tell. If the story puts heavy emphasis on such things to tell its larger message then yes it does need to explain those things. In situations where it’s more of a footnote, I don’t believe it to be necessary. That sort of stuff is best left to supplementary material like artbooks, anthology comics, tie in novels, etc. where those things can be freely explored without bogging down the overarching narrative. World building isn’t the end all be all. In my experience it’s probably the least important aspect of storytelling but that’s just me.

If it's impossible to put in the game, then yes, but if that actually is a part of the story, then it should actually be in the story. In this case in particular if they wanted to suggest some alternate inheritance laws were at work, they absolutely could have. I've given multiple examples of how they could have easily done so without bogging down the story. All it would take is a single line. You say least important aspect, and to some extent I might agree (it would obviously depend on the story), but it still is an aspect. Any fictional world is going to work under conditions of "Like reality unless noted". That is to say the world functions like the world familiar to the audience, except for all the parts that are shown to not. If there's an aspect of the constructed world that is different, well it's story's job to show that. You can't have things that are pertinent to how the world functions yet never actually acknowledge the existence of it. That just makes the writing look sloppy as if the creator never even considered how these people exist in this world.

Now all that being said, it is moot to the conversation at hand, as Zofia does function under standard primogeniture.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Jotari

[Seazas]

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

He is more legitimate because he's Celica's elder brother.

Not when he makes Celica wear the crown and he doesn't have the brand, which was documented to be important in Valentian culture. He directly gave importance to her over him in front of everyone, so no one would give a shit. He'd only be asked (if anyone on Alm's route cared) after the game, as the game is not about Conrad and the throne. It's a fucking footnote dude. 

[Jotari]

8 minutes ago, Seazas said:

Not when he makes Celica wear the crown and he doesn't have the brand, which was documented to be important in Valentian culture. He directly gave importance to her over him in front of everyone, so no one would give a shit. He'd only be asked (if anyone on Alm's route cared) after the game, as the game is not about Conrad and the throne. It's a fucking footnote dude. 

That's the thing though, it's not even a footnote. It doesn't exist at all. If it were a foot note there wouldn't be an issue. They could have tossed it into his ending, or like I said earlier on, tossed it into Mae and Boey's conversation when he arrived. I'm not asking the entire game to become a legal drama between Conrad and Celica (though if given some focus I think it could have enhanced Celica's much criticized arc and gave some noteworthyness to Conrad, who lacks in the character department). I'm just saying a character throwing away their legitimate inheritance is something that's worth acknowledging.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Jotari

[Seazas]

On 3/30/2021 at 1:05 PM, Jotari said:

That's the thing though, it's not even a footnote. It doesn't exist at all. If it were a foot note there wouldn't be an issue. They could have tossed it into his ending, or like I said earlier on, tossed it into Mae and Boey's conversation when he arrived. I'm not asking the entire game to become a legal drama between Conrad and Celica (though if given some focus I think it could have enhanced Celica's much criticized arc and gave some noteworthyness to Conrad, who lacks in the character department). I'm just saying a character throwing away their legitimate inheritance is something that's worth acknowledging.

It IS a footnote as the game already acknowledged Celica as the more suitable leader. Both in and out of the game's context, Celica is the lord and came out of hiding to help people. While Conrad did not care and only came out for Celica, all while performing the coronation and directly telling her to go to the throne. There is no room to force some random scene in Celica's route when we already had our answer. No, that prementioned scene would once again be forced and dumb. Just make Boey and Mae look like idiots that forgot what happened at Mila's Temple. Boey and Mae were directly present for the coronation and accepted Celica as their ruler. Hell, in both Gaiden AND Echoes' endings they do not care for what happens next on the throne and instead head back to their simple home on Novis.

Conrad did not need more forced "noteworthyness" he's a side character in a FE game who did not have the brand nor did he bother to reveal himself to the people who would ask. The game's structure literally cannot do it without randomly detracting from what the game is trying to do. Conrad's a controversial inclusion story-wise as is and you're telling me that the game did bad for not forcing him further and trying to LITERALLY DETRACT FROM THE MAIN PLOT? Jotari, come on. This logic makes no fucking sense and it's driving me nuts. 

You bring up that they should make light of Conrad's position in his ending, which they do as it's made clear that Conrad was content serving Celica and ignored any suitors. That's a dead giveaway how little value he puts in his position as he doesn't think about the future and anyone passing his legacy. Instead staying single and dying single. Any conversation is unrelated to the main story Gaiden told, like, ridiculously branched off, so it's POINTLESS to shove in.

Edited April 2, 2021 by Seazas

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, Seazas said:

It IS a footnote as the game already acknowledged Celica as the more suitable leader. Both in and out of the game's context, Celica is the lord and came out of hiding to help people. While Conrad did not care and only came out for Celica, all while performing the coronation and directly telling her to go to the throne. There is no room to force some bullshit scene in Celica's route when we already had our answer. No, Boey and Mae were directly present for the coronation and accepted Celica as their ruler. Hell, in both Gaiden AND Echoes' endings they do not care for what happens next on the throne and instead head back to their simple home on Novis.

Conrad did not need more forced "noteworthyness" he's a side character in a FE game who did not have the brand nor did he bother to reveal himself to the people who would ask. The game's structure literally cannot do it without randomly detracting from what the game is trying to do.

You bring up that they should make light of Conrad's position in his ending, which they do as it's made clear that Conrad was content serving Celica and ignored any suitors. That's a dead giveaway how little value he puts in his position as he doesn't think about the future and anyone passing his legacy. Instead staying single and dying single. Any conversation is unrelated to the main story Gaiden told, like, ridiculously branched off, so it's POINTLESS to shove in.

It's not a foot note because it doesn't exist in the game anywhere. And for like the amilliointh time, this discussion isn't about who the most suitable leader is, it's about the fact that Conrad by the actual established rules in which the characters operate is the rightful inheritor of the country and the game never acknowledges it at all.

[Seazas]

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

It's not a foot note because it doesn't exist in the game anywhere. And for like the amilliointh time, this discussion isn't about who the most suitable leader is, it's about the fact that Conrad by the actual established rules in which the characters operate is the rightful inheritor of the country and the game never acknowledges it at all.

Yes it does, Conrad not having the throne nor being challenged about that is made clear as he told Celica to already. Which she long accepted... in front of everyone, with all of the common people only seeing the princess who cared enough to take the mantle. Celica being the more suitable leader is exactly why the game doesn't make a big deal over Conrad, as he's objectively the lesser choice with Conrad himself placing his faith in Celica. That's not counting the fact that Zofia was already a hot mess and busy with the war, terrors, pirates and all of this shit. There is no room in the game for some forced discussion and giving Echoes guff for not forcing a controversial character to detract from the main plot is just nuts, dude.