An Idea to Differenciate/Improve each route

[Aedan7479]

I've seen the idea to have Rhea as the lord in Silver Snow and, though I didn' read/watch anything regarding it, I didn't think it would work, but upon further thinking, I realized it could work, and decided to that idea one step further.

What if Rhea's role in each route was different?

Verdant Wind/ Crimson Flower: I'd keep Rhea's roles in these routes the same, CF because it's already different and VW because one can stay the same.

Silver Snow: Again, I haven't read anything regarding the idea, but I'd imagine my ideas are very similar to others. So each route follows a different ideal, in CF it's 'everyone should be equal,' in AM it's 'we forever fight for the people,' and in VW it's 'everyone should be united'. When rewatching the cutscenes in SS, it was hard to find an ideal to attach to it, but there is one scene where Seteth and Flayn (of course Byleth is there, but doesn't say anything) and basically say 'no matter the cause war is not justified', and when considering that Byleth becomes the ruler at the end, I think the ideal is 'end all conflict, then fix the world,' that would leave room for interpretation since Byleth represents the player. So, keeping that in mind, I think Rhea's role in SS should've been an example of how NOT to do that; we know that after the War of Heroes, Rhea came up with lies regarding Nemesis and the 10 Elites and banned certain machines (see the shadow library) in order to maintain the idea of Sothis' divinity. The problem is that TWSITD exploited this to provoke Edelgard into turning against the church. SS should have used Rhea to make that apparent, and it would make the final battle against her beserk form symbolic as it would've represented the end of an era.

Azure Moon: this one is going to be small by comparison; just have Rhea die in chapter 12, lets say Thales does it. The most common complaint I've seen for AM is the absence of Rhea, which is because of how they end each route. This would be a non-issue if she was dead. It would make it clearer sooner that certain questions won't be answered because the answers were lost with Rhea, and the knights still have a motive to follow her successor.

In order to make these differences possible in each route, I think chapter 12 should be different for BL and GD. Basically, let's say the knights are the defense, BLs are at the front lines (because of Dimitri) and GDs attack from behind, possibly encountering Aurendel's reinforcements. So in SS Byleth protects Rhea, In GD he stops Aurendel/Thales from killing her, but fails to stop Edelgard from capturing her, and in BL, he isn't there to stop Thales from killing her.

How does this idea sound, or am I talking too much about what could've been?

[eclipse]

If you can find an ideal to attach to Silver Snow, you'll have a better idea of what kind of path it should take.  Though I haven't finished this route, I wouldn't mind something that involves the rest of Fodlan "growing up" from the church, if you will.  Basically, the church can exist, but it is no longer the dominant power in Fodlan.

[Jotari]

I don't see much advantage in having Rhea alive in Verdant Wind either to be honest. All she does is stop those missiles which really didn't even need to happen in the first place (and in fact if it didn't happen the whole Nemesis thing would have made more sense).

[Punished Dayni]

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

I don't see much advantage in having Rhea alive in Verdant Wind either to be honest. All she does is stop those missiles which really didn't even need to happen in the first place (and in fact if it didn't happen the whole Nemesis thing would have made more sense).

I'd have had her try to hold Nemesis off and fail myself. Obviously after missile launch is thwarted and Nemesis is unleashed.

The point about falling divided could be made this way.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Dayni

[Jotari]

36 minutes ago, Dayni said:

I'd have had her try to hold Nemesis off and fail myself. Obviously after missile launch is thwarted and Nemesis is unleashed.

The point about falling divided could be made this way.

Even if we give Rhea a lot more relevance in the end game, the fact that she's missing for about 9/10s of the Part 2 story line is still makes her character seem really ancillary. And we know the Nemesis chapter can work without her (well for a given metric of work). I think if Rhea is to be in Verdant Wind she's better off actually worked into it as an aspect, rather than essentially dead until the last two chapters wherein even if you give her something major to do it's going to be superficial. In fact, I think the whole Nemesis thing could work even better with a dead Rhea, as Nemesis is obsessed with her, and if she's already dead it lends to some kind of tragic irony on the part of Nemesis, he's fighting to achieve something that isn't even possible. Putting him down with Rhea already dead also  makes his defeat more of a step towards the future by erasing the past as he's the last remnant left of the former age.

[Punished Dayni]

4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Even if we give Rhea a lot more relevance in the end game, the fact that she's missing for about 9/10s of the Part 2 story line is still makes her character seem really ancillary. And we know the Nemesis chapter can work without her (well for a given metric of work). I think if Rhea is to be in Verdant Wind she's better off actually worked into it as an aspect, rather than essentially dead until the last two chapters wherein even if you give her something major to do it's going to be superficial. In fact, I think the whole Nemesis thing could work even better with a dead Rhea, as Nemesis is obsessed with her, and if she's already dead it lends to some kind of tragic irony on the part of Nemesis, he's fighting to achieve something that isn't even possible. Putting him down with Rhea already dead also  makes his defeat more of a step towards the future by erasing the past as he's the last remnant left of the former age.

My point was Nemesis slaying Rhea, but he's still discontented afterwards and he still has to be faced and stopped (this could then build to a climax involving the Leicester lords and Almyran forces with the forces you control being able to get to Nemesis by their actions).

It's a good point that you could want her doing more, but I am not sure what to do about that as it stands.

[Sooks]

1 hour ago, Dayni said:

I'd have had her try to hold Nemesis off and fail myself. Obviously after missile launch is thwarted and Nemesis is unleashed.

The point about falling divided could be made this way.

Honestly, Nemesis would just be a better final boss for SS if we have Rhea. After uncovering the truth™ they solve the reignited conflict once and for all! Or something along those lines.

[Acacia Sgt]

I'd say, I feel there's a meaningful message in SS in the scenario where Byleth and Rhea reach an S support. Per their ending:

"Having narrowly escaped death, Rhea took time to recover her strength before returning to her role as archbishop. Upon her return, she applied herself to rehabilitating the church and helping those who had suffered because of the war. Thereafter, the two worked closely to forge new policies and achieve progress for Fódlan."

Maybe it's just me, but I feel there's merit on showing how even someone like Rhea can change for the better. If anything, this could be seen as some sort of atonement or making amends, working to reverse the things she did previously. If she dies, then that's that. But alive, well, better to work on fixing your mistakes. Maybe the change could be to not gate it to S supporting Byleth? Make her "atonement" something mandatory.

[lenticular]

I just had a random idea and I'm not sure whether I like it or hate it. They could have differentiated Silver Snow by having it feature the return of Sothis. Not in corporeal form, just coming back as the voice in Byleth's head again. As an idea of how it could have worked, Seteth could have told Byleth all the secrets that Rhea had been keeping from her, and in return Byleth tells him everything she knows about Sothis. The two of them then realise that a seed of Sothis's consciousness still remains and work on restoring it. Yeah, it would need work to develop it into something fleshed out, but I literally jsut had the thought.

[Jotari]

12 hours ago, Dayni said:

My point was Nemesis slaying Rhea, but he's still discontented afterwards and he still has to be faced and stopped (this could then build to a climax involving the Leicester lords and Almyran forces with the forces you control being able to get to Nemesis by their actions).

It's a good point that you could want her doing more, but I am not sure what to do about that as it stands.

I know, but having her essentially dead in the narrative for the entire of Verdant Wind, then for her to show up only to actually die a chapter later just seems sort of pointless.

[Cosmic_Dragon]

On 3/17/2021 at 11:55 AM, Acacia Sgt said:

I'd say, I feel there's a meaningful message in SS in the scenario where Byleth and Rhea reach an S support. Per their ending:

"Having narrowly escaped death, Rhea took time to recover her strength before returning to her role as archbishop. Upon her return, she applied herself to rehabilitating the church and helping those who had suffered because of the war. Thereafter, the two worked closely to forge new policies and achieve progress for Fódlan."

Maybe it's just me, but I feel there's merit on showing how even someone like Rhea can change for the better. If anything, this could be seen as some sort of atonement or making amends, working to reverse the things she did previously. If she dies, then that's that. But alive, well, better to work on fixing your mistakes. Maybe the change could be to not gate it to S supporting Byleth? Make her "atonement" something mandatory.

I'd say there's more to the S-support than that. I mean, that's certainly one of the messages (that I think) it gives, but I think it also gives the message of how even someone like Rhea, who's done her fair share of shady stuff (which she had her reasons to do) and been this omnipotent-like figure for so long can still find someone who is willing to look past all of that and understand and accept her for everything she is, her merits and her flaws. Basically, even how even after so much time there was still someone who came to appreciate her as her own woman and not just as the motherly Archbishop (which is fitting for Byleth as they aren't really her followers or protegees, just her employees/friends); a form of true love/companionship that she hasn't felt for so long, one that's different from the kind she was seeking to regain, but no less fulfilling and comforting. Imo it shows how, even with all our flaws and failings, there's bound to be someone out there that will accept and love us unconditionally, no strings attached, no matter what (at least, that's how I saw it, sorry if I sounded really cheesy or pretentious there).

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If you can find an ideal to attach to Silver Snow, you'll have a better idea of what kind of path it should take.  Though I haven't finished this route, I wouldn't mind something that involves the rest of Fodlan "growing up" from the church, if you will.  Basically, the church can exist, but it is no longer the dominant power in Fodlan.

In that case, I think my idea for Silver Snow if Rhea had been it's lord/co-protagonist would be to revolve it around the theme of "the past" and "identity". Why? Cause I think it'd make a good and fitting thematic for not only Rhea's character, but Byleth's as well. As we know, Byleth and Rhea used to be have a different identity in their past days before the monastery. Byleth was the Ashen Demon before he was Professor Byleth, and Rhea was Saint Seiros before she was Archbishop Rhea. I think I'd make it a point for them to still be "haunted" so to say by these personas they used to have because of the war they're currently facing making them face aspects of themselves that come into certain conflict with who they are in the present. And this in turn lead them to try to "find themselves" so to speak.

Byleth asks himself questions; is he the Ashen Demon, the fearsome warrior who doesn't let his emotions even be part of him so he can get the job done no matter what? Or is he Professor Byleth/the Enlightened One who tries to be an empathetic and guiding light for the people around him, even if this requires him to make big decisions for everyone? Which one would his father have wanted him to be? Likewise, Rhea asks herself the same questions, is she meant to be Archbishop Rhea who benevolently extends her hands towards those who need it and prevents the land from getting ravaged by conflict, even if that means having to do rather unsavory things at times? Or is she meant to be Saint Seiros, the proud amazon who imparts "justice" upon those who bring despair and chaos to the land her mother created, not matter what reason they might have for it? Which one would her mother have wanted her to be? But this would culminate with the final question that they realize they should've been asking instead... "What do I want to be?".

Basically, my thematic for Silver Snow would be "overcome the past by learning who you are now and use that to walk towards the future". Basically a form of theme that ties-in with what Sothis asked of Byleth "remember to carve a path that is your own" (which is something I like to think she also asked of Rhea back in the day).

Edited March 23, 2021 by Cosmic_Dragon