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ruruo

Finally did it!

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Think this took just under a year, I started AM last June, and played AM on NG and the rest on NG+. 
Used male Byleth on VW, female Byleth on the others. I usually pick explore, and do battle on the final weekend of every month. The only exception was for SS where I did do a fair bit of grinding for Intermediate Classes/Masteries on Church units. I used DLC classes, but no online or use of Chalice. 

I think the easiest route overall was VW, because you get a lot of archers early on, there's no worries about recruiting Lythesia or Lorenz and there wasn't much of a difficulty spike on the second half. 
AM is probably still a little easier during White Clouds (I got through it while messing about), because of Annette's rallies and Dedue, but the second part can be a pain if unprepared.
CF has a harder first half, but I don't think the difficulty spikes as bad on the second half except the final few maps. The only real issue I found was how short it was, so there was less time to enjoy completed builds, and can be a bit tight if chasing S+ ranks for weapons. 
Hardest boss for me was Rhea in SS. She has a huge range, lots of HP, and there's the need to beat the white beasts. Overall, even though you don't get a "Lord" character on that route, Seteth is pretty good. 

I tried to use mostly in house characters on each run. The only ones I didn't give a fair chance to were:

the retrainers (Dedue, Hilda, Hubert) - I chose to adjunct to their lords for support bonuses 
Hapi (sorry) - I like her but didn't get a chance at all T_T
Yuri - mostly adjunct to Byleth for bonuses
Constance - Dancer (kinda hilariously over qualified) 
Raphael - Adjunct to Ignatz to make space for Balthus 
Casper - Tried to use him, but eventually adjunct to Bernadetta. I think he's useable, but there's just better options.   


Fun surprises: 

Dark Flier Byleth - Having magic was fun, probably not as good as Falcon Knight, but one of the better hybrid options for her
Valkyrie Annette - She's such a bomb
Sniper Hanneman - Hilariously effective. Totally recommend. 
War Master/Grappler Alois - Out of the box ready to go. Good weapon levels. 
Falcon Knight Catherine - It took effort to get her there, but no regrets; she has amazing growths in strength

Disappointments: 

Mortal Savant Dorothea - I didn't realise how average all of her growths were.  

Dark Knight Sylvain - I wanted to try a build where he could have access to Swift Strikes, Physic and Seraphim. It didn't work out as good as it sounded on paper. I also think he got quite strength screwed too  (even though I took him through mostly physical classes) which didn't help

Bow knights -  No Hunter Volley and the hit penalty at the furthest range make this less worthwhile unless on a character with Point Blank Volley like Leonie or Cyril (but then you still can't take full advantage of that crazy range). I think the only other character liked it on was Ignatz who has that +20 Hit Personal. 


 

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Congrats! It's definitely an accomplishment to beat all the routes on Maddening.

I'm amazed how much longer your playtimes are than mine. Your first run is pretty similar to my longest but after that... what do you think added all the time for the later runs?

Interestingly all three things you called disappointments are things I was very happy/impressed by. RNG luck or playstyle difference? Could be either or a mix of both. One of the fun things about 3H is how many different yet effective ways there are to approach the game.

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18 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I'm amazed how much longer your playtimes are than mine. Your first run is pretty similar to my longest but after that... what do you think added all the time for the later runs?

I think those runs are with NewGame+, hence the Sothis icon. Which adds the time from any previous playthroughs into a running total. Presumably, VW took NG+ from AM, while CF and SS each independently took NG+ from VW. In which case, AM was the listed 73 hours, VW would have been 61 hours, CF at 52 hours, and SS at 65 hours. Rounded.

Like, my SS file has a time listed of around 540 hours. Because it's the fourth route I completed, with NG+ from three previous routes.

Edit: from the OP:

Spoiler

Think this took just under a year, I started AM last June, and played AM on NG and the rest on NG+. 

By the way, congratulations! It took me a little over a year to finish all four routes.

Edited by Shanty Pete's 1st Mate
Additional information.

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Congratulations! That must have been hard. I’m on my first maddening run right now (NG) and having trouble (gosh darn reunion at dawn!).

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Nicely done! I did my Golden Deer maddening run not too long ago. Now I’m currently on my Blue Lions maddening run. Hopefully I’ll be able to catch up to you.

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6 minutes ago, Marienburg said:

But now I'm confused by the implied 13 hour silver snow run.

Ahem:

3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I think those runs are with NewGame+, hence the Sothis icon. Which adds the time from any previous playthroughs into a running total. Presumably, VW took NG+ from AM, while CF and SS each independently took NG+ from VW. In which case, AM was the listed 73 hours, VW would have been 61 hours, CF at 52 hours, and SS at 65 hours. Rounded.

Maybe they copied the save file over in WC-BE shortly before "the decision". Or maybe they went through WC-BE twice, but building off of VW each time.

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2 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Ahem:

Maybe they copied the save file over in WC-BE shortly before "the decision". Or maybe they went through WC-BE twice, but building off of VW each time.

Derp. You're right. I just read the first part about NG+ and my brain went straight to wait what ? before finishing the paragraph XD

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Were you abusing renown on the New Game+ files? I've played all the routes except Silver Snow on Maddening by now and they've become progressively easier because I'm such a renown abusing whore.

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3 hours ago, Jotari said:

Were you abusing renown on the New Game+ files? I've played all the routes except Silver Snow on Maddening by now and they've become progressively easier because I'm such a renown abusing whore.

I never tried a NG+ maddening run on any given route. Is it normally better to spend renown on supports early so you can just recruit other units whenever you want first? Or do you just buy up the max professor rank first so you can just increase which ever rank for Byleth that you want instead?

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1 hour ago, Barren said:

I never tried a NG+ maddening run on any given route. Is it normally better to spend renown on supports early so you can just recruit other units whenever you want first? Or do you just buy up the max professor rank first so you can just increase which ever rank for Byleth that you want instead?

Both, As well as giving everyone Quick Risposte and Alert Stance+ from the start of the game.

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Thank you everyone :'D 

 

On 3/24/2021 at 3:10 PM, Dark Holy Elf said:

Congrats! It's definitely an accomplishment to beat all the routes on Maddening.

I'm amazed how much longer your playtimes are than mine. Your first run is pretty similar to my longest but after that... what do you think added all the time for the later runs?

Interestingly all three things you called disappointments are things I was very happy/impressed by. RNG luck or playstyle difference? Could be either or a mix of both. One of the fun things about 3H is how many different yet effective ways there are to approach the game.

That is really interesting because I really really wanted Dorothea and Sylvain to work out. Maybe yeah, how did you build your Dorothea and Sylvain? 

In my case Dorothea I took her down the Mage route. She ended up with only 19 speed, and kinda middling for both Mag and Str. I wonder if I should have passed through something like Assassin. For Sylvain, he was a complete tragedy T_T, by CF endgame as Dark Knight his str was still at like 28? I ended up reclassing back to Paladin for Lancefaire.

With Bow Knights I did really liked Leonie, and Ignatz in that class, and I think Cyril has potential in it too (I put him in WL, but his stat spread seems workable for Bow Knight).
It's just on that AM run, I tried putting Byleth in it and it was a bit of a disaster. So I just kinda ended up being more cautious when considering which unit I wanted to take into that class. Initially I wanted to try it for Felix and Ferdinand, but kept it to characters with higher Dex. 

 

On 3/24/2021 at 3:40 PM, Sooks said:

Congratulations! That must have been hard. I’m on my first maddening run right now (NG) and having trouble (gosh darn reunion at dawn!).

You can 1000% do it! Keep going at it x) 
Once it's done, I find subsequent playthroughs easier cause you know what to expect (and there's the NG+ option) 

 

On 3/24/2021 at 4:16 PM, Barren said:

Nicely done! I did my Golden Deer maddening run not too long ago. Now I’m currently on my Blue Lions maddening run. Hopefully I’ll be able to catch up to you.

Have fun with that! ❤️ 
 

Quote

I never tried a NG+ maddening run on any given route. Is it normally better to spend renown on supports early so you can just recruit other units whenever you want first? Or do you just buy up the max professor rank first so you can just increase which ever rank for Byleth that you want instead?

I usually use Renown to early to take the edge off White Clouds and help with recruiting. Max Prof rank I think 100% makes a lot of difference, thanks to the extra activity points. Other things I find nice are Authority ranks, and Class mastery skills when available. I quite like renown on NG+ because it kinda lets you customise to a certain extent how you want your run to be to like.
 

23 hours ago, Marienburg said:

But now I'm confused by the implied 13 hour silver snow run.

Haha yeah, I copied a save file. Replaying White Clouds can be such a chore. 

 

9 hours ago, Jotari said:

Were you abusing renown on the New Game+ files? I've played all the routes except Silver Snow on Maddening by now and they've become progressively easier because I'm such a renown abusing whore.

So it kinda depends for me, for Byleth absolutely. For Prof ranks, weapon ranks skills.. everything. Having hit Prof rank early definitely made things much easier, thanks to the extra activity points.  It was also really fun giving Male Byleth Darting Blow for instance, Female Byleth Quick Riposte, and trying hybrid builds.

Sadly for students, since I mainly used in house students they rarely had anything to interit 😞 . Ones that did I recruit for multiple routes I tried to build them differently, just to switch things up, so I couldn't use as much renown for them. 
 

 

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3 minutes ago, ruruo said:

You can 1000% do it! Keep going at it x) 
Once it's done, I find subsequent playthroughs easier cause you know what to expect (and there's the NG+ option)

Yes I can, because I did! fDGjZve.jpg

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3 hours ago, ruruo said:

In my case Dorothea I took her down the Mage route. She ended up with only 19 speed, and kinda middling for both Mag and Str. I wonder if I should have passed through something like Assassin. For Sylvain, he was a complete tragedy T_T, by CF endgame as Dark Knight his str was still at like 28? I ended up reclassing back to Paladin for Lancefaire.

With Bow Knights I did really liked Leonie, and Ignatz in that class, and I think Cyril has potential in it too (I put him in WL, but his stat spread seems workable for Bow Knight).
It's just on that AM run, I tried putting Byleth in it and it was a bit of a disaster. So I just kinda ended up being more cautious when considering which unit I wanted to take into that class. Initially I wanted to try it for Felix and Ferdinand, but kept it to characters with higher Dex. 

I've done Mortal Savant Dorothea out of both Assassin (on Silver Snow, due to Reunion at Dawn) and Warlock. Obviously going through Monk/Mage first, but that's a given for any magical build. Her speed and strength don't matter too much (she's never going to use physical damage, and should easily get enough AS to double armour knights), the magic stat does matter though. But MS is actually the #2 class for raw magic damage: ahead of Gremory, equal to Dark Knight, and trails only Warlock. The nice thing about MS is it has six move, so she can more easily reach targets to erase them with Hexblade, which is her strongest attack. Warlock/Gremory do get extra spell uses (giving you one free cast of Meteor before you lose its linked attack awesomeness) so there are tradeoffs. Most units prefer Dark Knight to Mortal Savant because of Canto but Dorothea actually cares about Swordfaire and is +sword, -riding, so Mortal Savant definitely feels like the better option in her case.

With Sylvain you do lose some oomph off of Swift Strikes (6x2 compared to Paladin, 3x2 compared to Wyvern Lord), but my experience was he could still one-shot cavalry and squishy enemies with it. I think he misses out on some mid-durability enemies but some of them (Warriors, for instance) are ones that no build of Sylvain particularly relishes trying to hit with Swift Strikes. On the other hand, I love getting an extra unit with Physic, and one who can strike at high range, as well as bait and counter archers extremely effectively. I personally have found Swift Strikes Paladins to be a bit disappointing (need 1 range to do remotely decent damage, get hosed by terrain, often rather squishy due to poor speed) so I really like a version of it that has expanded utility. Wyvern of course is also valid as a separate way to address a concern I have with the build, but Wyvern is just terrific in this game generally.

Bow Knight Felix is great. The thing about Bow Knight compared to Sniper is that you give up Hunter's Volley, but the higher your strength and speed the less you care. Felix can sometimes double without HV, and can still one-shot enemies with a Brave Bow/Inexhaustible. Best of all he can quad slow tanky enemies and do extreme damage (Sniper can do this too, kinda, but not nearly as well: 3 less speed, 3 less move). I've never tried Bow Knight Byleth, it should be solid on paper (especially since one of the perks of Bow Knights is their ability to support with linked attacks, and Byleth supports everyone) but Byleth is slow to train Riding. Dex doesn't matter too much, though I agree that Bow Knights benefit uniquely from high hit (Edumund Troops can be a good battalion for them, for instance... and Ferdinand's personal helps on paper, though I've never tried that. And Ignatz's, as you note).

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27 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I've done Mortal Savant Dorothea out of both Assassin (on Silver Snow, due to Reunion at Dawn) and Warlock. Obviously going through Monk/Mage first, but that's a given for any magical build. Her speed and strength don't matter too much (she's never going to use physical damage, and should easily get enough AS to double armour knights), the magic stat does matter though. But MS is actually the #2 class for raw magic damage: ahead of Gremory, equal to Dark Knight, and trails only Warlock. The nice thing about MS is it has six move, so she can more easily reach targets to erase them with Hexblade, which is her strongest attack. Warlock/Gremory do get extra spell uses (giving you one free cast of Meteor before you lose its linked attack awesomeness) so there are tradeoffs. Most units prefer Dark Knight to Mortal Savant because of Canto but Dorothea actually cares about Swordfaire and is +sword, -riding, so Mortal Savant definitely feels like the better option in her case.

With Sylvain you do lose some oomph off of Swift Strikes (6x2 compared to Paladin, 3x2 compared to Wyvern Lord), but my experience was he could still one-shot cavalry and squishy enemies with it. I think he misses out on some mid-durability enemies but some of them (Warriors, for instance) are ones that no build of Sylvain particularly relishes trying to hit with Swift Strikes. On the other hand, I love getting an extra unit with Physic, and one who can strike at high range, as well as bait and counter archers extremely effectively. I personally have found Swift Strikes Paladins to be a bit disappointing (need 1 range to do remotely decent damage, get hosed by terrain, often rather squishy due to poor speed) so I really like a version of it that has expanded utility. Wyvern of course is also valid as a separate way to address a concern I have with the build, but Wyvern is just terrific in this game generally.

Bow Knight Felix is great. The thing about Bow Knight compared to Sniper is that you give up Hunter's Volley, but the higher your strength and speed the less you care. Felix can sometimes double without HV, and can still one-shot enemies with a Brave Bow/Inexhaustible. Best of all he can quad slow tanky enemies and do extreme damage (Sniper can do this too, kinda, but not nearly as well: 3 less speed, 3 less move). I've never tried Bow Knight Byleth, it should be solid on paper (especially since one of the perks of Bow Knights is their ability to support with linked attacks, and Byleth supports everyone) but Byleth is slow to train Riding. Dex doesn't matter too much, though I agree that Bow Knights benefit uniquely from high hit (Edumund Troops can be a good battalion for them, for instance... and Ferdinand's personal helps on paper, though I've never tried that. And Ignatz's, as you note).

I haven't really tried Mortal Savant Dorothea but I suppose that she can get use out of it because against grapplers tomebreaker can be a pain for her to deal with. But thanks to Swordfaire however, she can go for a combat art and deal good damage to them to bypass tomebreaker. Though they tend to have high HP so I would think that she would appreciate them being softened up first. Plus it would give her an option against Paladins since she can still snipe them with Thoron. Again though I think they would need to be softened up. I could be completely wrong on this one.

A friend of mine I know wants to do a Dark Knight Sylvain as well for his Crimson Flower route. I told him about the mage route he can take to get there and that bowbreaker + black magic avoid +20 would give him a niche but notable role in luring in snipers and effectively dodging them as long as he draws them to shoot as far away as possible. He was especially interested in knowing Sylvain gets Seraphim and wants to at least see how well he does as a caster on a horse. 

Bow Knight Byleth was something I was seriously considering doing for my Blue Lions run but I'm going for War Master instead because Quick Riposte on him is incredible. I'll probably make Felix one since he can use Brave Bow and even Claude's Failnaught for the high damage output. He wouldn't suffer damage from using it since he has a crest and his own crest could still activate so I think it's a cool idea. Then again, I could also do something similar for WM Byleth where crit + 20 and Failnaught would one round quite a few enemies.

Edited by Barren

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17 minutes ago, Barren said:

I haven't really tried Mortal Savant Dorothea but I suppose that she can get use out of it because against grapplers tomebreaker can be a pain for her to deal with. But thanks to Swordfaire however, she can go for a combat art and deal good damage to them to bypass tomebreaker. Though they tend to have high HP so I would think that she would appreciate them being softened up first. Plus it would give her an option against Paladins since she can still snipe them with Thoron. Again though I think they would need to be softened up. I could be completely wrong on this one.

Actually, she should OHKO most Paladins with the Rapier+.

Rapier+ = 27
Hexblade = 34
Magic Staff = 37
Various battalions = 44
Swordfaire = 49
Fiendish Blow = 55
Magic+2 = 57
Mortal Savant mod = 59

It takes 81 attack to OHKO the paladins in CF 17 or SS 18, as an example, so she would need just 22 natural magic to manage this (seeing as she has bare minimum 17 from Warlock at Level 20, this is highly likely). This is before considering a possible Manuela adjutant (+3), cooking, or stat boosters.

Against Grapplers, she's down 14 power (assuming silver+), so she'll most likely stop one-shotting those later in part 2 due to HP, yep. They are a little magically frailer than paladins so it's possible you could get enough magic to manage, but it'd require more of the things that I mentioned above, or some RNG luck.

Edited by Dark Holy Elf
corrected bad math

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17 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Actually, she should OHKO most Paladins with the Rapier+.

Rapier+ = 27
Hexblade = 34
Magic Staff = 37
Various battalions = 44
Swordfaire = 49
Fiendish Blow = 55
Magic+2 = 57
Mortal Savant mod = 59

It takes 81 attack to OHKO the paladins in CF 17 or SS 18, as an example, so she would need just 22 natural magic to manage this (seeing as she has bare minimum 17 from Warlock at Level 20, this is highly likely). This is before considering a possible Manuela adjutant (+3), cooking, or stat boosters.

Against Grapplers, she's down 14 power (assuming silver+), so she'll most likely stop one-shotting those later in part 2 due to HP, yep. They are a little magically frailer than paladins so it's possible you could get enough magic to manage, but it'd require more of the things that I mentioned above, or some RNG luck.

Hmmm....that is interesting. Maybe when I get to Crimson Flower I’ll give Mortal Savant Dorothea a shot. I am currently working towards Mortal Savant Yuri. Though he is level 12 and I’m on chapter 8. I got to get caught up fast.

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14 hours ago, ruruo said:

So it kinda depends for me, for Byleth absolutely. For Prof ranks, weapon ranks skills.. everything. Having hit Prof rank early definitely made things much easier, thanks to the extra activity points.  It was also really fun giving Male Byleth Darting Blow for instance, Female Byleth Quick Riposte, and trying hybrid builds.


Sadly for students, since I mainly used in house students they rarely had anything to interit 😞 . Ones that did I recruit for multiple routes I tried to build them differently, just to switch things up, so I couldn't use as much renown for them. 
 

 

Ah, I see our experiences are quite the same XD Except I always recruit Bernadetta because I love cheesing monsters with Encloser, so she has a complete build from out of the gate.

Edited by Jotari

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