Theorycrafting a Playable Jeralt in White Clouds

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

The notion that Jeralt ought to be playable in White Clouds is something I've heard come up more than a few times. The first few chapters can present a serious challenge, particularly on Maddening Mode, so having a stronger unit on your side, fulfilling a sort of "Jagen" role, could be a major boon. Due to the narrative, the game would take him away from you at some point - but this is something that Three Houses isn't exactly shy about doing, as anyone who started with the Black Eagles can attest. So, how can we construct a Jeralt that works for the player, helping make the earlygame much easier, but without remaining a "crutch" unit before he's taken away? Here's what I'm thinking.

In my vision, Jeralt would join as a playable unit, starting in chapter 2 (namely, starting with the auxilliary battle that the game makes you do in the second weekend). He can be recruited simply by talking to him during the Explore session (there will be a "Recruit" option). He can then be used in all subsequent maps, with a couple exceptions - he cannot be brought to the Battle of Gronder Field (chapter 7), and he can't be used before the month-ending scenario in chapter 9. After said scenario, he becomes unplayable for the remainder of the game. Jeralt retains his appearance as a "green unit" in the Prologue. If he is defeated in battle, he will retreat - so, when chapters 8 and 9 roll around, he will function as a "green unit", like he does in the base game. The same will apply if he is never recruited.

Here's what I'm thinking, as a "unit breakdown":

Spoiler

Name: Jeralt Eisner

Crest: Major Crest of Seiros

Personal Ability: Blade Breaker

Classes: Commoner, Soldier, Cavalier, Paladin

Inventory: Steel Lance, Javelin, Concoction

Level: 11 (if joining in chapter 2; scales each subsequent chapter)

Personal Bases: 33 HP, 13 Str, 8 Mag, 12 Dex, 11 Spd, 10 Luck, 12 Def, 8 Res, 10 Cha (these scale by chapter as well)

Personal Growths: 0.30 HP, 0.30 Str, 0.10 Mag, 0.20 Dex, 0.20 Spd, 0.20 Lck, 0.20 Def, 0.20 Res, 0.30 Cha

Ranks: D+ Sword, B (>>) Lance, E Axe, D+ Bow, E Brawl, E Reason, E Faith (<<), C+ Authority (>>), E Armor, B Riding (>>), E Flight (<<) (auto-grows in Lance and Authority)

Learned Arts/Abilities: Lance Jab (C+ Lance), Monster Piercer (A Lance), Battalion Desperation (C Authority), Battalion Vantage (A Authority)

Learned Spells: Fire (D Reason), Thunder (D+ Reason), Thoron (C Reason), Heal (D Faith), Nosferatu (D+ Faith), Restore (C Faith)

As supports go, he would obviously support his own child (C/B levels). I'm thinking of making a couple existing conversations, maybe with adjustments, into the supports. The C Support would be when Jeralt asks them how they're getting used to the Monastery. The B Support would be Jeralt given them the ring that Sitri had worn. Completing this conversation will give the player "Sitri's Ring", which is kept with the "Lost Items" through the rest of the game (so you know it's there, but it can't be discarded). Jeralt would also have a C support with Leonie, wherein he encourages her to write back to her parents. I'd give him a C support with Ashe, too, as it makes sense that Ashe would idolize a knight with Jeralt's reputation. I also think a support with Edelgard, dancing around her suspicions of Rhea, could work. Other supports I could see working are with Catherine (maybe on the merits of a Hero's Relic and Crests, versus individual strength) and Alois (although, their playability wouldn't overlap, so this could be tricky).

Like all playable units, I'd give him a Paralogue as well:

Spoiler

Name: A Season of Reaping

Timeframe: From start of chapter 4, until end of chapter 7

Premise: Remire Village is holding a harvest festival. Jeralt thinks it could be a nice diversion from the duties of a knight and a professor - and in light of having spent time there before. Tomas, who is interested in the local customs, wishes to come along for the ride. While there, they enjoy the festival, with Jeralt remarking that he wishes he could have shared something like this with Sitri, too. As everyone is out celebrating, though, a bunch of thieves come into town, and attempt to burgle from the houses.

Map: It's the Remire Village map, like chapter 8, but nothing is on fire yet. The chests are also absent in this case.

Gameplay: Jeralt starts in the center of the map, with two other deployment slots, along with Tomas (curiously, right where Solon starts in chapter 8), who functions as a green unit (Monk) here. The Professor, meanwhile, is located at the southeast corner of the map, with four additional deployment slots around them. The thieves show up from the north entrance (where you deploy in chapter 8 ) and the southwest entrance (where the Death Knight spawns in chapter 8). A handful of green unit villagers (myrmidons, fighters) are here, but the enemies won't target them unless they're in the way of a destination. Speaking of which, there are five "house" spaces scattered around the map, that the enemy thieves are trying to reach to steal from. There are two possible win conditions - either have a playable unit occupy each of the five spaces (can be a different one for each tile), or rout the enemy. Loss conditions include Jeralt, the Professor, or Tomas being defeated in battle.

Reward: The reward depends on the number of spaces protected. If no houses are saved, you get a Bullion. If at least one house is saved, you get an Albinean Moose. Two houses, the gold upgrades again to a Large Bullion. Save at least three houses, and you get Zanado Treasure Fruit as well. Four houses, and the gold upgrades again, to an Extra Large Bullion. Save all five, and you get a Goddess Messenger (on top of the other two ingredients). Enemy drops include a Silver Lance (from the boss) and a Black Pearl (from an enemy at southwest). Regardless of your performance, you get another copy of Remire Militia.

Outro: The villagers thank Jeralt for his help, who deflects their appreciation to his child. Tomas marvels at the kind and genuine hearts of the people of Remire, and ponders whether they are unique or mundane in this respect. After the battle, Jeralt makes sure their child remembers why they're doing all they've been doing - not for nations or institutions, but for the people who just want to lead safe and satisfying lives.

In any case, let me know what you think! Do you like my proposed vision for a playable Jeralt? Or would you build him in a different manner? Or, do you prefer he simply remain in the background, without falling into the player's control? I'd love to read your comments on this topic!

[Jotari]

A paralogue with Tomas in it would do a hell of a lot to help the fact that he's a complete nobody before it's revealed he's actually Solon.

[lenticular]

I'm generally not a fan of having playable units be taken away from you for story reasons in Fire Emblem, since it has too high a risk of screwing over a player who invested in them. So if I were tasked with making a playable Jeralt, I'd have him not follow normal rules to make it clear that you shouldn't be investing in him.

For starters, I'd make him something like level 30 or maybe even 40, so that he only gains xp at an absolute snail's pace. His stats would be low for his level, but still higher than anyone else's, in finest Jagen tradition. He would also be at his caps for all stats  (which would be much lower than everyone else's caps, but whatever) which would have two consequences. First, even if you did manage to level him up despite his glacial xp gain, he wouldn't actually gain anything from it. Second, you wouldn't be able to give him any stat boosters, avoiding the problem of effectively having wasted them once he goes away.

The storyline justification for all of this is fairly easy to make. He's been around a long while and has already reached his potential. He's not going to be learning any new tricks by fighting a few bandits or eating a magic apple. From a gameplay perspective, I hope that it would make it obvious that he's there only as a safety valve for when you really need him, and that he's eventually going to become obsolete. In fact, I think I'd probably have dialogue that actually says as much. "I can come and provide back-up, but try to have your kids do most of the fighting or they'll never learn anything", or something like that.

Finally, I think I'd also make it so that you couldn't tutor him, set his study goals, or anything like that. Partly because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for Byleth to be trying to teach him anything, but partly because the story needs for him to be away from the monastery a lot so as not to have time to talk everything through with Byleth before he dies. If it's presented as him always having his own missions but being able to just about find time to help out with what Byleth is doing, then that serves the storyline purpose of having him too busy to sit down for that long conversation they never had.

[Jotari]

5 minutes ago, lenticular said:

Finally, I think I'd also make it so that you couldn't tutor him, set his study goals, or anything like that. Partly because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for Byleth to be trying to teach him anything, but partly because the story needs for him to be away from the monastery a lot so as not to have time to talk everything through with Byleth before he dies. If it's presented as him always having his own missions but being able to just about find time to help out with what Byleth is doing, then that serves the storyline purpose of having him too busy to sit down for that long conversation they never had.

Considering so much of investment in Three Houses comes down to tutoring over stats, this really seems like all it would take to choreograph that he's not meant to be invested in. Would be a bit weird to give him capped stats when even in regular play you're unlikely to cap anything even in regular play. Making him such a high level also would give him potential to get into some Master Classes that would make him a  bit too useful if you grind up skill points (unless you just plain can't reclass him at all). It'd still be far better than them suddenly taking your lord away from you, which Silver Snow does (and when I made her my dancer and gave her my movement ring T.T you could at least return the inventory to me game).

Edited March 31, 2021 by Jotari

[lenticular]

6 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Considering so much of investment in Three Houses comes down to tutoring over stats, this really seems like all it would take to choreograph that he's not meant to be invested in. Would be a bit weird to give him capped stats when even in regular play you're unlikely to cap anything even in regular play. Making him such a high level also would give him potential to get into some Master Classes that would make him a  bit too useful if you grind up skill points (unless you just plain can't reclass him at all). It'd still be far better than them suddenly taking your lord away from you, which Silver Snow does (and when I made her my dancer and gave her my movement ring T.T you could at least return the inventory to me game).

I am imagining that he wouldn't be able to be reclassed either, yes. Though I'm not sure that it would make too much difference if he could be. Without tutoring or passive gain, it would be impossible for him to ever pick up magic, flying or armour classes, and anything else would require so much grinding that it wouldn't be optimal and would be obvious it wasn't intended. Maybe Bow Knight might be a bit of a problem? But regardless, I'm imagining him as not being able to certify for any new classes. Maybe he could have a choice of a few different classes starting off unlocked and you could switch between them freely. Sort of like Cindered Shadows.

And yes, agreed that nothing they could possibly have done with Jeralt would have been as bad as taking away Edelgard (and Hubert) on Silver Snow. I don't like that as a design decision at all, to the point that whenever friends have picked up the game, I've taken to advising them not to play Black Eagles on their first time through, just so they won't run into that issue.

[Benice]

Alternately, I feel like he coulda worked as a Jagen of sorts, but I thought that it'd be cool if HE taught your students but couldn't be taught himself*, causing Byleth to be forced to take over from him after he dies. In my opinion, that would work because he technically wouldn't be able to really take away much from the player, so long as the game doesn't let you touch his inventory and such, the same way guest units do.

*I don't know if I'd want him to be force-deployed and cause a game over like a Lord or have him be a guest unit, though.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

7 hours ago, lenticular said:

For starters, I'd make him something like level 30 or maybe even 40, so that he only gains xp at an absolute snail's pace. His stats would be low for his level, but still higher than anyone else's, in finest Jagen tradition. He would also be at his caps for all stats  (which would be much lower than everyone else's caps, but whatever) which would have two consequences. First, even if you did manage to level him up despite his glacial xp gain, he wouldn't actually gain anything from it. Second, you wouldn't be able to give him any stat boosters, avoiding the problem of effectively having wasted them once he goes away.

Here's a funny notion that can address the "booster" problem - what if the boosters you used on Jeralt "respawned", starting in chapter 10, in the cemetery section of the monastery? So you could use whichever boosters on Jeralt, but after he dies, you can get them back to use on other units.

7 hours ago, lenticular said:

Finally, I think I'd also make it so that you couldn't tutor him, set his study goals, or anything like that. Partly because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for Byleth to be trying to teach him anything, but partly because the story needs for him to be away from the monastery a lot so as not to have time to talk everything through with Byleth before he dies. If it's presented as him always having his own missions but being able to just about find time to help out with what Byleth is doing, then that serves the storyline purpose of having him too busy to sit down for that long conversation they never had.

I was thinking, in terms of the classroom, that Jeralt would function more like a Shamir or Catherine - you can't assign him the weekly chores, but tutoring and weekly lessons are an option. With the "freeclassing" system that Three Houses offers, I think it would be a major bummer to not have the option of unconventional builds. I get the concern about over-tutoring him, but the game already uses a Motivation meter to encourage spreading out your lessons. Maybe the compromise is, keep Jeralt out of the classroom in NG playthroughs, but let the player invest in him on NG+, where they're aware of what happens.

22 hours ago, Jotari said:

A paralogue with Tomas in it would do a hell of a lot to help the fact that he's a complete nobody before it's revealed he's actually Solon.

This way, too, there's an extra pang when returning Remire, as you were the one who brought Tomas to the village the first time. But yeah, I definitely found him to be a charming presence in the monastery, before his defection.

33 minutes ago, Benice said:

Alternately, I feel like he coulda worked as a Jagen of sorts, but I thought that it'd be cool if HE taught your students but couldn't be taught himself*, causing Byleth to be forced to take over from him after he dies. In my opinion, that would work because he technically wouldn't be able to really take away much from the player, so long as the game doesn't let you touch his inventory and such, the same way guest units do.

*I don't know if I'd want him to be force-deployed and cause a game over like a Lord or have him be a guest unit, though.

This would be a radical change, although there's some amount of story logic. But I'm worried sbout how it would affect the gameplay. Do you control Jeralt in the classroom, or do you not have any control over what's taught? Same with running around the monastery and stuff. And what is everyone gonna call Jeralt's kid, before they become "Professor"?

[Benice]

4 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Do you control Jeralt in the classroom, or do you not have any control over what's taught?

I feel like Byleth could work as his "apprentice", so to speak, so Jeralt teaches the students stuff himself, but Byleth chooses the topics. (Basically, you would still get to control what's taught, it's just Jeralt doing it; plus, they could maybe make Byleth themselves tutorable in this time to accelerate the ranks for later) It would also work for running around the monastery; running chores in the stead of the more important professor, but you keep doing it after you become one yourself out of force or habit. Or something.

10 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

And what is everyone gonna call Jeralt's kid, before they become "Professor"?

Hm...Well, it would be a good time to further characterize the students by having different ones call them different names.

...Which is to say, I don't have any good ones off the top of my head. Although it'd be funny if they called you something weird like "Clunky".

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 minute ago, Benice said:

Hm...Well, it would be a good time to further characterize the students by having different ones call them different names.

...Which is to say, I don't have any good ones off the top of my head. Although it'd be funny if they called you something weird like "Clunky".

Well apparently, they were known as the "Ashen Demon", so maybe they could get a nicknae, like "Ash". I'm sure that won't cause any confusion.

[lenticular]

31 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Here's a funny notion that can address the "booster" problem - what if the boosters you used on Jeralt "respawned", starting in chapter 10, in the cemetery section of the monastery? So you could use whichever boosters on Jeralt, but after he dies, you can get them back to use on other units.

That could be neat. Though it would be salt into the wounds for people who had invested in Edelgard or Hubert in Silver Snow or Flayn in Crimson Flower.

32 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I was thinking, in terms of the classroom, that Jeralt would function more like a Shamir or Catherine - you can't assign him the weekly chores, but tutoring and weekly lessons are an option. With the "freeclassing" system that Three Houses offers, I think it would be a major bummer to not have the option of unconventional builds. I get the concern about over-tutoring him, but the game already uses a Motivation meter to encourage spreading out your lessons. Maybe the compromise is, keep Jeralt out of the classroom in NG playthroughs, but let the player invest in him on NG+, where they're aware of what happens.

I'd have no problem at all with something like that in NG+. Once your into NG+, you know enough about how the game works and what's going to happen, that it's no longer the game's responsibility to protect you from yourself. If you do something daft in NG+ then you've only yourself to blame.

1 hour ago, Benice said:

Alternately, I feel like he coulda worked as a Jagen of sorts, but I thought that it'd be cool if HE taught your students but couldn't be taught himself*, causing Byleth to be forced to take over from him after he dies. In my opinion, that would work because he technically wouldn't be able to really take away much from the player, so long as the game doesn't let you touch his inventory and such, the same way guest units do.

If they'd done this, they could also have completely changed the dynamic between Byleth and the students to get rid of the creepiness inherent in most S supports. But that is wishful thinking on my part.

36 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

And what is everyone gonna call Jeralt's kid, before they become "Professor"?

Get rid of the customisable name and make them always be Byleth. Which is even more wishful thinking for me.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Neat idea! I enjoyed reading it.

On 3/30/2021 at 9:22 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

As supports go, he would obviously support his own child (C/B levels). I'm thinking of making a couple existing conversations, maybe with adjustments, into the supports. The C Support would be when Jeralt asks them how they're getting used to the Monastery. The B Support would be Jeralt given them the ring that Sitri had worn. Completing this conversation will give the player "Sitri's Ring", which is kept with the "Lost Items" through the rest of the game (so you know it's there, but it can't be discarded). Jeralt would also have a C support with Leonie, wherein he encourages her to write back to her parents. I'd give him a C support with Ashe, too, as it makes sense that Ashe would idolize a knight with Jeralt's reputation. I also think a support with Edelgard, dancing around her suspicions of Rhea, could work. Other supports I could see working are with Catherine (maybe on the merits of a Hero's Relic and Crests, versus individual strength) and Alois (although, their playability wouldn't overlap, so this could be tricky).

One issue here is the potential interface spoiler. If all Jeralt's supports end at B, people will know something is up.

But, a proposal: what if Jeralt had A supports? With Byleth, Leonie, Alois at minimum, maybe one or two more. Just like everyone else, you can't get these supports normally even if you manage to qualify for them during Chapter 1-9. Buuut, after Chapter 9, if the support reached at least B, the A will automatically unlock to be viewed at the start of chapter 10. And Jeralt isn't physically in these supports: they will be instead be a conversation in which Byleth (and the other character, if present) reminisce about the man. I think these scenes could be very poignant and a clever use of the support system in an unusual way.

Loved the paralogue, especially how you linked Tomas/Solon into it.

I think having Jeralt be untutorable would be fine. Give him even better base ranks for some more reclasses if desired (e.g. at least C in all physical weapons, so he could access all the Intermediate physical classes) but also signals that he can't / shouldn't be super-invested into. And it would make sense to not have Jeralt be in Byleth's classroom.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

10 hours ago, lenticular said:

Get rid of the customisable name and make them always be Byleth. Which is even more wishful thinking for me.

Unfortunately, "customizable name" and "full voice acting" make for an awkward intersection. It's kind of strange, playing a character whose name isn't spoken even once.

54 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

One issue here is the potential interface spoiler. If all Jeralt's supports end at B, people will know something is up.

But, a proposal: what if Jeralt had A supports? With Byleth, Leonie, Alois at minimum, maybe one or two more. Just like everyone else, you can't get these supports normally even if you manage to qualify for them during Chapter 1-9. Buuut, after Chapter 9, if the support reached at least B, the A will automatically unlock to be viewed at the start of chapter 10. And Jeralt isn't physically in these supports: they will be instead be a conversation in which Byleth (and the other character, if present) reminisce about the man. I think these scenes could be very poignant and a clever use of the support system in an unusual way.

I see what you're saying. He could have some A-supports listed, that just never become accessible.

Your idea is a neat one, though! The Professor's A with Jeralt could be more of a "soliloquy" format, where they're lost in thoughts (all alone) while standing at Jeralt's gravesite. Maybe each of those supports could give an item, because there's no more combat boosts they could offer? Like, the Professor gets a Silver Shield, Leonie gets a Silver Lance, and Alois gets an Elixir, perhaps.

56 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Loved the paralogue, especially how you linked Tomas/Solon into it.

Thank you! I know "reusing maps" gets dragged in this game, often with good reason. But I think there are cases where it makes sense narratively - and gameplay-wise, I like when they're reused with a different style. The Alomir paralogue, AM 19, and CF 14 all play quite differently, for instance, despite being built around the same skeleton.

1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I think having Jeralt be untutorable would be fine. Give him even better base ranks for some more reclasses if desired (e.g. at least C in all physical weapons, so he could access all the Intermediate physical classes) but also signals that he can't / shouldn't be super-invested into. And it would make sense to not have Jeralt be in Byleth's classroom.

That would be good I guess, at least on NG. I can see not being able to boost Jeralt's ranks as effectively enhancing his "Jagen" functionality. And there would be some interesting class trade-offs - Paladin is where he's strongest (due to Lancefaire), but maybe you really want an "instant Archer" for the extra bow range. Or you could send him back to Soldier, weakening him in the short term, but putting him on track to provide Reposition support.