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Fire Emblem Heroes - New Heroes (Forces of Will)

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I feel that Orson's main problem is that Duessel already exists. If you happen to have Duessel, then Orson isn't providing you anything in terms of performance that you can't already get from Duessel (even in the context of FE8 Limited Hero Battles).

IS could've avoided this by giving Orson a sword instead because poor Seth can't be considered competition to anyone in this game, but they seem to be avoiding swords as much as possible lately. And since this is the first set of Dark / Fallen Heroes with no sword unit, Book V's sword unit total remains at just 5 (Book IV had 14 by this point).

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1 hour ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

The point is that since Edelgard (the character herself) isn't even two years old yet, it's pretty crazy that she's already gotten five different versions in Heroes, outpacing every character that came before her due to how new and young the character is. Everyone just kind of said the same thing in several different ways and it all got muddled up.

And how the hell is any other character supposed to compete with the "pace" of any Three Houses character if you count from when the character's source game was released?

Marth got his first version in Heroes 27 years after his source game was released and his fifth version in Heroes 30 years after his source game was released. Are we supposed to wait until 2046 to get our first version of Edelgard and until 2049 to get our fifth?

Edited by Ice Dragon

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I still think it's hilarious that everyone has to have purple clouds surrounding them just because.  Like Dimitri's just there and now he's got purple around him.  Same with Orson but I guess he at least has a spirit behind him in his art...?  So it's spirit mist?...

Also Orson doesn't have the Runesword because...reasons.  Don't ask.  I am not a big fan so I won't complain, especially since FE4 gets treated with cool prfs very often, but wow is that sad.

Edited by Sayyyaka

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10 minutes ago, Sayyyaka said:

Also Orson doesn't have the Runesword because...reasons.  Don't ask.  I am not a big fan so I won't complain, especially since FE4 gets treated with cool prfs very often, but wow is that sad.

Orson is not always guaranteed to have a Runesword when you fight him in FE8 (unlike Narcian in 6 or Bertram in 9). If you took Ephraim's path, he'll have a Runesword and Silver Lance. But if you took Eirika's route instead, Orson will instead have a Silver Sword and Spear.

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2 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

The point is that since Edelgard (the character herself) isn't even two years old yet, it's pretty crazy that she's already gotten five different versions in Heroes, outpacing every character that came before her due to how new and young the character is. Everyone just kind of said the same thing in several different ways and it all got muddled up.

I was the first person in the thread to mention that I was getting a bit burned out on Dimitri and Edelgard, but what you're saying is not what I meant at all. I didn't feel any different back in the day when it felt Lyn and Camilla were getting an alt every other banner. I just didn't mention Lyn and Camilla in my original post because this wasn't the thread for it.

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1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

And how the hell is any other character supposed to compete with the "pace" of any Three Houses character if you count from when the character's source game was released?

Marth got his first version in Heroes 27 years after his source game was released and his fifth version in Heroes 30 years after his source game was released. Are we supposed to wait until 2046 to get our first version of Edelgard and until 2049 to get our fifth?

Calm down.

That's not what I was saying and you know it. I'm not saying we needed to wait for twelve years before Edelgard got a second version. IS just needs to learn to pace things out better. That's it.

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Well, I can see it being a bit much for some people, but Dimitri and Edelgard are my favourite characters in fire emblem so I don't really mind Alts of them being frequent. 

Dimitri seriously looks like he picked up Soul Edge in his quest for revenge though. His Japanise translation further strengthen the demon blade connection. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Calm down.

That's not what I was saying and you know it. I'm not saying we needed to wait for twelve years before Edelgard got a second version. IS just needs to learn to pace things out better. That's it.

Then how are you calculating the pace?

How much should the year and a half that Camilla existed before Heroes was released count for when determining "pace"? How much should the 5 years that Lucina existed before Heroes was released count for when determining "pace"? How much should the 14 years that Lyn existed before Heroes was released count for when determining "pace"? How much should the 27 years that Marth existed before Heroes was released count for when determining "pace"? Why should those years be counted at all when it was physically impossible for versions of them to be released in Heroes during that time span, and how do you justify counting them for as much as you do?

Your gut feeling has no place in this argument.

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...you know, the purple aura I always assumed was just a mark of a fallen hero, they're evil and it's showing, but now... I wonder if it's actually what KEEPS them a Fallen Hero.

Like, rather than simply being the essence of their evil, it's rather an unnatural magic in place that prevents anything from being able to penetrate the "barrier of evil" and curing the hero of their "evil."

That way, in the lore of FEH, once summoned as a Fallen Hero there is no way to "recover" from it, even though in a number of cases the very thing that would cure them of their "evil" is either somewhere in the Askr castle (or wherever the hell they are) or simply death itself.

Because yeah, it doesn't really make sense that Dimitri is "possessed by evil" when what it boils down to is a person who has been inflicted with so much trauma that he begins to hallucinate the ghosts of the fallen as urging him to enact vengeance in their place. The two Corrins aren't possesed with "evil" either, just an out of control power that is never properly cured by Azura.
The only thing this doesn't explain... WHO is keeping these people "evil?" What benefit is there to having two permanent versions of Grima wandering Askr Castle (plus a third dressed for Halloween) or a Mareeta still possessed by the Shadow Sword if they aren't even necessarily on the side of the person keeping them "evil?"

Edited by Xenomata

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4 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

Orson is not always guaranteed to have a Runesword when you fight him in FE8 (unlike Narcian in 6 or Bertram in 9). If you took Ephraim's path, he'll have a Runesword and Silver Lance. But if you took Eirika's route instead, Orson will instead have a Silver Sword and Spear.

That's fair but we're not exactly crowded with sword cavs right now in comparison to lances.  Would've been nice

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As a mod: Cool the tempers a bit. Thank you.

As a user: I feel we're very oversaturated on Dimitri and Edelgard specifically, and very samey executions of them at that, not so much 3H generally. Even then, this version of both units deserves to exist; it's the CYL forms that are the weakest of each, and in full benefit of hindsight I'd rather their CYL version was just their legendary version, freeing up the legs to be... someone else. But there's plenty of room for 3H love. We're still waiting on any vanilla War Phase students (not counting CYL Lysithea), by far the demographic I'm most interested in. I have zero thoughts on the Grimae, but Orson will be my fourth FE8 +10 and I'm incredibly hype for it.

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22 hours ago, bethany81707 said:

Not quite the point I was making. Rather than "well, technically, this unit didn't actually need magic to get here" applying case-by-case, the entire banner is like that this go around, and people thinking Dimitri is off for not being magical is causing them to miss the fact that the same applies to the other four.

And besides, despite getting to where they are their own ways, Corrin, Ashnard and Berkut are all cured, in whole or in part, by having the magical portion of their condition removed by magic. This banner's selection of units focuses on the human element of their redemption (or death) in their original circumstances, too.

Ah, thanks for clarifying. I think I get it now. Though, I wouldn't say that Ashnard was ever "cured." He died as the same person as he lived as: respecting power over sanity. Also, I don't think Berkut was cured by magic or by his powers going away. He just accepted that he was dying (and his powers left at the same time because, well, he was dying), and so it was just as natural and psychological as his madness. What caused the madness was hurt, confusion, and a lack of acceptance of his circumstances. What cured him was when he could finally accept the state of the reality he was in.

And... (Blue Lions Route endgame spoilers below)

Spoiler

Edelgard was never really cured, even when she was dying. To the last, she was trying to kill Dimitri.

I haven't played Crimson Flower yet, so I can't really speak to that, but Dimitri's voice actor did say...

Spoiler

that he doesn't think that without Byleth's help that Dimitri would ever have recovered from his madness. So, it can be assumed that in all routes where he's not directly helped by Byleth that he never gets cured. That said, you're right that in Azure Moon, he does find a natural psychological way to recover.

As for the Morgans, I'm not entirely sure what they're doing here. That is, I don't know if they're just devoted (which would be a Future Past reference) or if magic was involved. (With their family history, it could be either one. Plus, their eyes are red, making me lean toward the latter. Could be that their grandpa did something to them.) This could be another one of those "what if" scenarios. Maybe they're being primed in case something happens to their respective vessel-parent.

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Thinking about Dimitri, he could be really good if one change his prf with the Ninja lance. He already has a good speed and quadding with Firesweep, Lull and Canto seems bonkers. 

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7 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Then how are you calculating the pace?

How much should the year and a half that Camilla existed before Heroes was released count for when determining "pace"? How much should the 5 years that Lucina existed before Heroes was released count for when determining "pace"? How much should the 14 years that Lyn existed before Heroes was released count for when determining "pace"? How much should the 27 years that Marth existed before Heroes was released count for when determining "pace"? Why should those years be counted at all when it was physically impossible for versions of them to be released in Heroes during that time span, and how do you justify counting them for as much as you do?

Your gut feeling has no place in this argument.

Once again, that isn't what I was saying, and you know it. Now you're just being an ass, and that has no place here. I've already addressed this, multiple times, you just keep asking me to repeat and re-word myself. It isn't a gut feeling, which you also damn well know, and you trying to claim it is doesn't make it so.

You're acting like we're discussing quantum physics or something. Seriously, chill out.

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37 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Once again, that isn't what I was saying, and you know it. Now you're just being an ass, and that has no place here. I've already addressed this, multiple times, you just keep asking me to repeat and re-word myself. It isn't a gut feeling, which you also damn well know, and you trying to claim it is doesn't make it so.

You're acting like we're discussing quantum physics or something. Seriously, chill out.

You are not exempt from the mod directive to cool off. Choose reporting or engaging, not both.

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Yes, Edelgard has five versions in Heroes. But here's the thing, we voted for one, and are thus partly "at fault" for that.

 

Spoiler

One of them, the Flame Emperor, is also justifiable as "not Edelgard." For the purposes of Three Houses, that character has their own role in the story until they don't. A Heroes player who hasn't played Three Houses doesn't know that the character is Edelgard until Heroes arbitrarily decides to spoil the shit out of it later (and that's a far bigger issue than "muh character doesn't have enough alts.")

 

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It's also worth bearing in mind that Edelgard and Dimitri were two of the highest priority units for legendary and fallen picks, because the better ones have already gotten in. They seem to be accounting for that by holding off on giving them seasonals.

It's also worth considering that 4-5 alts doesn't look as extreme as when the game was just two years old. All the non-3H characters who've won a CYL have at least that many by now.

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taking over as parrhesia goes to bed

 

for me the number/pace of alts basically isn't even a factor compared to the design of the alts - taking our best friend camilla for instance, hot springs camilla wasn't intrinsically bad for me because she was Camilla VI, she was just a terrible design and a bad unit. contrastingly, Camilla VII, the brave one, ruled, and Camilla IV, the summer one, was great even though Camillas II and III were kinda naff.

 

this is Edelgard V, fifth of a character i don't have any particular affinity for; and Dimitri IV, fourth of a character i don't have any particular affinity for. Edelgard V i'm actually pretty cool with cause it's something different from Axe Armor Edelgard, Again. on the other hand, Dimitri IV is only the fourth dima, but it's three consecutive 'dimitri in his timeskip outfit and he is a fast & offensive lance infantryman' and that bugs me even more than the camilla glut from y1 did.

 

orson rules though i'm 100% promoting that dude

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36 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Yes, Edelgard has five versions in Heroes. But here's the thing, we voted for one, and are thus partly "at fault" for that.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

One of them, the Flame Emperor, is also justifiable as "not Edelgard." For the purposes of Three Houses, that character has their own role in the story until they don't. A Heroes player who hasn't played Three Houses doesn't know that the character is Edelgard until Heroes arbitrarily decides to spoil the shit out of it later (and that's a far bigger issue than "muh character doesn't have enough alts.")

 

I already addressed that.

And no, the Flame Emperor is absolutely not justifiable as "not Edelgard" lol.

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2 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

I already addressed that.

And no, the Flame Emperor is absolutely not justifiable as "not Edelgard" lol.

Your "addressing" of such points, at best, amounts to "that's irrelevant" or "that doesn't matter" without any sound reasoning as to why.

 

Why doesn't it matter that Edelgard has so many canon versions? Can it not be argued that IS designed 3H with so many versions of every character explicitly to work with the business model of Heroes?

 

Why doesn't it matter that we voted for one of those alts? No, really. Why? That sounds like community demand to me.

 

Why is the Flame Emperor not a valid separate entity? Are people who consider YTiki and ATiki separate characters unjustified? Should Zelgius never appear in his red armor?

 

You can't just say "lol no" and expect people to take that as an argument. It just makes it look like you hate Edelgard.

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I'm happy for Dimitri...I just wish these alts were spaced better. My orbs and wallet are getting no time to recover between my merges...

(waits for 3H Summer banner with the lords in swimwear + M!Byleth)

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Just now, silverserpent said:

I'm happy for Dimitri...I just wish these alts were spaced better. My orbs and wallet are getting no time to recover between my merges...

(waits for 3H Summer banner with the lords in swimwear + M!Byleth)

I think the spacing might be intentional to encourage spending. If you space them out too much, then players can potentially get all the Dimitris for free via free Orbs. If they space them together though, then players will be forced to spend money if they want to have all the Dimitris now since there would not be enough free Orbs generating fast enough.

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I'm super glad Hegemon Edelgard is a beast unit. I was like 60% sure they'd go the uncreative route and make her a tome user. A bit disappointed Male Morgan is a foot unit though. I know it's accurate to The Future Past, but we have so many mage infantry and so few mage cavalry, and Morgan as a character can be absolutely anything, yet they've gone for the boring option on male Morgan twice now.

Edited by Jotari

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17 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I'm super glad Hegemon Edelgard is a beast unit. I was like 60% sure they'd go the uncreative route and make her a tome user. A bit disappointed Male Morgan is a foot unit though. I know it's accurate to The Future Past, but we have so many mage infantry and so few mage cavalry, and Morgan as a character can be absolutely anything, yet they've gone for the boring option on male Morgan twice now.

But we do need more canon or semi-canon tome users. Ranged armors are extremely rare and exclusive to seasonals. How is that healthy or good?

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14 minutes ago, Jotari said:

A bit disappointed Male Morgan is a foot unit though. I know it's accurate to The Future Past, but we have so many mage infantry and so few mage cavalry, and Morgan as a character can be absolutely anything, yet they've gone for the boring option on male Morgan twice now.

This wouldn’t be as much of a problem if they made Miranda and/or Azelle a tome cav, but IS passed on that opportunity twice.

That said, we do have seven red tome cavs now compared to the just two, because Leo is so shit he almost shouldn’t count three we had prior to Sigurd + Deirdre though too bad all four of the newer ones are limited time units.

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