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Lack of male Mythics

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3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Demoting Linhardt wasn't the wrong move. Make him utterly useless was the wrong move. If they've even introduced him with a new skill like Heal+5 to reference his crest, then at least he'd have some use as inheritance fodder. With prf staffs finally becoming time, we're well past the time where Wrathful Staff and Dazzling Staff should be considered premium skills. If they'd given Linhardt one of those two as a demote then people would have loved him.

I see your logic, but Linhardt is definitely popular enough that if IS had kept him locked to 5-star people would've definitely pushed orbs to +10 him, just because he's Linhardt. Like, it's completely possible that we'll see both Ignatz and Raphael as demotes depending on how many student 3H banners they decide to do (and if all of them will even make it in), but I really think Linhardt was premium 5-star material based on his popularity alone. Even Caspar as a demote would've made more sense to me.

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1 minute ago, Sunwoo said:

I see your logic, but Linhardt is definitely popular enough that if IS had kept him locked to 5-star people would've definitely pushed orbs to +10 him, just because he's Linhardt. Like, it's completely possible that we'll see both Ignatz and Raphael as demotes depending on how many student 3H banners they decide to do (and if all of them will even make it in), but I really think Linhardt was premium 5-star material based on his popularity alone. Even Caspar as a demote would've made more sense to me.

I'm still holding out hope Caspar will help introduce gauntlets into the game so we have a colourless melee weapon (that isn't a beast). If not I'll be very curious what they'd end up doing with Balthus (axe user with his relic as a skill perhaps?). Though maybe they're just holding off until the next original game in the series to see if gauntlets are going to be a staple.

Regarding what a 5* Linehardt could actually be in terms of gamplay, there's not really much potential for  him in terms of weapons. The Healing Staff, is that too generic sounding to make into a weapon? Well I suppose they could just make one up for him called the Staff of Cethlainn or given him an alternate version of Cadueceus. Either that or just give him a new Rescue/Return, Warp would suit him particularly well. And then the Even version of festival Sephiran's C skill.

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8 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

I see your logic, but Linhardt is definitely popular enough that if IS had kept him locked to 5-star people would've definitely pushed orbs to +10 him, just because he's Linhardt. Like, it's completely possible that we'll see both Ignatz and Raphael as demotes depending on how many student 3H banners they decide to do (and if all of them will even make it in), but I really think Linhardt was premium 5-star material based on his popularity alone. Even Caspar as a demote would've made more sense to me.

I'm guessing Linhardt will get a premium war phase version, whenever they get around to doing those.

15 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Anri I could see at some point, but Artemis is just too minor. Like sure she has some artwork in Shadow Dragon, or rather there's a female figure near Anri that's probably Artemis, but it's just too limited for me to really see getting into Heroes. Everything from her weapons to her personality to even the bulk of her design would be original. It'd basically be the name and that's it (this goes for Iote and that thief guy who founded Archanea too). The 12 Crusaders have more going for them with at least having usable weapons, but their artwork wasn't even featured in the game and none of them really carve out a niche large enough in the backstory that elevates them above the others. Granted that's true for Altina vs Soan too, but I expect we will see Soan some day, if only because we need more armoured beasts. Even though we're back to the no artwork issue, I would actually prefer to see Galle as a Genealogy Mythic, showing us what Loptyr was like at the height of his power. Outside of your mentioned examples, the Elibe legendary characters have a bit more going for them as, aside from us already getting Braimmond and Athos being an outright palyable character, Roland, Durban and Elimine all show up in the games in some form. So with 2/8 of them likely to be playable and 5/8 of them having something resembling characters and artwork to draw from, finishing off the last 3 isn't too difficult, especially when one of them is Hartmut, the most important of the group.

Well Thor did a wear a dress that one time. So maybe Heroes Thor is male. Would certainly be a twist XD

Well we have gotten one new character from CYL, that being the Gatekeeper. Though I can understand someone having a be careful what you wish for attitude to that. Overall though given CYL is a popularity contest and they're going to put the most popular character in the game first, outside of any meme victors, we are unlikely to see new heroes from CYL. Fallen Heroes could be used to introduce some new characters though. Morva I think being the prime example, as he works better as a fallen hero than a regular hero given what limited content he has to work with in his own game. Marla and Hestia likewise I think could work as Fallen Heroes while struggling to get in as regular Heroes. So there are choices out there (Sumeragi and Arete to name another two, hell Hardin got in as a Fallen Hero and we're still waiting for his regular self), but it's hardly surprising they're going to go for the more popular characters that are already in the game first.

Demoting Linhardt wasn't the wrong move. Make him utterly useless was the wrong move. If they've even introduced him with a new skill like Heal+5 to reference his crest, then at least he'd have some use as inheritance fodder. With prf staffs finally becoming time, we're well past the time where Wrathful Staff and Dazzling Staff should be considered premium skills. If they'd given Linhardt one of those two as a demote then people would have loved him.

Aside from the comments about it making a bit more sense to have a higher ratio of men cause war and all that, it's obvious it's not a sense of egalitarianism that's driving them. It's really softcore porn. If they actually cared about equality and representation, we'd have Niime now along with a bunch other older and less conventionally attractive characters. But *shrug* that be capitalism for you.

Ooh, Galle would be fun.

When did Elimine show up?

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8 minutes ago, Othin said:

I'm guessing Linhardt will get a premium war phase version, whenever they get around to doing those.

Ooh, Galle would be fun.

When did Elimine show up?

There was some kind of Mario Kart link to the gamecube tie in thing with Blazing Blade. I think it was Japanese only. It's where those "Emblem Weapons" you might have noticed if you dug around in GBA Fire Emblem's code. Actually a bit surprising no one in the community has never organised getting a working version of the event for ROMs and stuffs. Though it's probably somewhat difficult to do as the scene is probably on the gamecube. This is what she looks like at any rate.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fireemblem/images/1/17/Elimine.jpg

EDIT: Found some footage. Maybe it wasn't Japanese only. Though it's certainly not widely known. I know at least in my region copies of Double Dash came with room for a second disc but there was never anything there.

 

Edited by Jotari

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5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

There was some kind of Mario Kart link to the gamecube tie in thing with Blazing Blade. I think it was Japanese only. It's where those "Emblem Weapons" you might have noticed if you dug around in GBA Fire Emblem's code. Actually a bit surprising no one in the community has never organised getting a working version of the event for ROMs and stuffs. Though it's probably somewhat difficult to do as the scene is probably on the gamecube. This is what she looks like at any rate.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fireemblem/images/1/17/Elimine.jpg

EDIT: Found some footage. Maybe it wasn't Japanese only. Though it's certainly not widely known. I know at least in my region copies of Double Dash came with room for a second disc but there was never anything there.

 

Ooh, I'd heard about the weapons and how they were through Mario Kart but not about the scene associated with the event. That's neat.

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2 minutes ago, Othin said:

Ooh, I'd heard about the weapons and how they were through Mario Kart but not about the scene associated with the event. That's neat.

Course now that I actually watch the footage I have to note how the name Elimine is never once mentioned throughout the process. So either she's referred to that in some guide somewhere, or fans have just assumed the random gift giving blond is St Elimine because who else could it be (Nergal's wife?). She at least does look somewhat like her Binding Blade artwork in so far as she's in a dress with a cape and long hair.

Eight_legends.jpg

Of course Athos looks more like Nergal than Athos in that pic (maybe he didn't start rocking the beard until later?).

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1 minute ago, Jotari said:

Course now that I actually watch the footage I have to note how the name Elimine is never once mentioned throughout the process. So either she's referred to that in some guide somewhere, or fans have just assumed the random gift giving blond is St Elimine because who else could it be (Nergal's wife?). She at least does look somewhat like her Binding Blade artwork in so far as she's in a dress with a cape and long hair.

Eight_legends.jpg

Of course Athos looks more like Nergal than Athos in that pic (maybe he didn't start rocking the beard until later?).

Elimine.jpg

It is stated, just... not there, but likely in a magazine, I'd think.

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4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Course now that I actually watch the footage I have to note how the name Elimine is never once mentioned throughout the process. So either she's referred to that in some guide somewhere, or fans have just assumed the random gift giving blond is St Elimine because who else could it be (Nergal's wife?). She at least does look somewhat like her Binding Blade artwork in so far as she's in a dress with a cape and long hair.

Eight_legends.jpg

Of course Athos looks more like Nergal than Athos in that pic (maybe he didn't start rocking the beard until later?).

https://fireemblem.fandom.com/wiki/Elimine

The wiki sure seems confident that it's her. 

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19 minutes ago, Jotari said:

There was some kind of Mario Kart link to the gamecube tie in thing with Blazing Blade. I think it was Japanese only.

Definitely not. I did this myself and still have it on my own NA FE7.

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4 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Elimine.jpg

It is stated, just... not there, but likely in a magazine, I'd think.

As I suspected. What's also kind of cool is that that only half of that artwork is actually used in the Mario Kart event. We don't get to see her skirt or the tome (presumably Aureola). Though it is animated very slightly in the Mario Kart scene.

Just now, Florete said:

Definitely not. I did this myself and still have it on my own NA FE7.

Yeah, I noted after finding the video that it's not. Turns out the confusion in my mind came from the fact that how to actually get those items was different in Japan.

Edited by Jotari

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17 minutes ago, Jotari said:

There was some kind of Mario Kart link to the gamecube tie in thing with Blazing Blade. I think it was Japanese only. It's where those "Emblem Weapons" you might have noticed if you dug around in GBA Fire Emblem's code. Actually a bit surprising no one in the community has never organised getting a working version of the event for ROMs and stuffs. Though it's probably somewhat difficult to do as the scene is probably on the gamecube. This is what she looks like at any rate.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fireemblem/images/1/17/Elimine.jpg

EDIT: Found some footage. Maybe it wasn't Japanese only. Though it's certainly not widely known. I know at least in my region copies of Double Dash came with room for a second disc but there was never anything there.

I'm in NA, and I have the bonus disc. I remember having Guy use the Wind Sword a few times, and giving Canas and Dart the Emblem Seal b/c bias.

 

...Not gonna touch the gender debate, because the mods are probably eyeing it. All I'll say is that I totally definitely absolutely sympathize with you, and you know who you are, it's obvious isn't it?😛

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9 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

The game has long since stopped caring that Sharena was introduced as a co-lord alongside Alfonse or that Anna exists. Alfonse is the star of the show. Heck, of all the other OCs we've gotten the only one who has been intertwined with the plot and really given a lot of the spotlight as an independent agent is Lif. Who happens to be a dude. And is an older, AU Alfonse. It's almost like all the female OCs we've gotten are kind of just window dressing in the end.

I'm pretty certain the reason Sharena doesn't play a significant role in later Books is because there is a new female main character in each new book (Fjorm, Eir, Peony, Reginn) that in effect takes her place.

Additionally, her established personality isn't exactly conducive to being used to drive a story. Instead, she's clearly spending all of her time drawing up character introductions.

 

8 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

It is stated, just... not there, but likely in a magazine, I'd think.

That's from Fire Emblem Characters, the artbook for FE6 and FE7.

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21 hours ago, Rezzy said:

I think this is mostly due to the OCs overwhelmingly being female, which I find somewhat annoying.  It seems you can count all the male OCs on one hand.

That is true but OC's often really shouldn't have been Mythics to begin with. When they were revealed IS told us that mythics were different from Legendaries on account of being....mythic. Godlike figures or founders of kingdoms with immense power. Very few of the OC's aside from the villains of each book fits that mark. There's very little mythical about a henchmen like Plumeria for instance.

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12 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

you know who you are, it's obvious isn't it?😛

I don't know what you mean by that.  I'm just a guy who wants equality in and off of this site.

Wasn't expecting to hear about the content link with Mario Kart Double Dash.  They'll likely use it if they remember it.

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I will just patiently wait for the day when they're hopefully finally forced to do Jugdral mythics and we get Forseti...until then they can keep exhausting their reserves of women for all I care.

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5 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

That is true but OC's often really shouldn't have been Mythics to begin with. When they were revealed IS told us that mythics were different from Legendaries on account of being....mythic. Godlike figures or founders of kingdoms with immense power. Very few of the OC's aside from the villains of each book fits that mark. There's very little mythical about a henchmen like Plumeria for instance.

I'd much rather the OCs come on their own banner, taking a seasonal slot preferably, or be Legendary like they used to be.

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2 hours ago, Rezzy said:

I'd much rather the OCs come on their own banner, taking a seasonal slot preferably, or be Legendary like they used to be.

I agree with this.  Plus they're starting to run out of MCs to use for Legendary Banners.  When (or if) Byleth happens, I hope they pick male so it's not the female avatar for the third time (and because Female Byleth's Enlightened One design is kinda trashy).

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I read some of the posts but then it began to become lengthy rabbit trails kind of, so I decided to just post my thoughts.

I didn't really notice the lack of male mythics consciously, but that's because of all the other areas in which the gender ratio is skewed female. I did a count at one point (can't remember if it was in book 4 or 5) and there was actually exactly twice as many Heroes-native female characters as male ones. The sheer number of female units on banners as opposed to males (even to the extent of how many female units are repeated, whether the banner is seasonal or regular), too.

Also, it's been brought up before that, so far, the only male character among the harmonic heroes is Xander (as part of Harmonic Pirate Veronica.) I guess I didn't mind this so much since the harmonic units make sense (for the most part; I'm not bothering to look back on each one but I don't have the impression of ever being all "that makes no sense" for the ones introduced.)

But really, I don't blame the female mythic bloat on the number of female Heroes-native characters. That would be if mythics were exclusively Heroes-native. IS can put out whatever mythics they want, and they do have quite a few characters to choose from in the main series (especially if they're counting characters empowered by gods (such as Altina), not just the gods themselves.)

Also, the problem I see with having such a female bloat overall in the game (especially since it's so obvious that they're trying to continuously put out banners that will sell instead of focusing on just bringing all the characters together, as opposed to the main series where the primary focus is the writing and gameplay, not selling individual units) is that it does two toxic things: first, it objectifies women ("they will sell because they are women!") and second, it treats the men as almost valueless. Women have value because they are people with unique strengths, weaknesses, and abilities, and especially if they have strength of character. Likewise for men. One is not more or less valuable than the other, and I hate that that subluminal message can hit so hard on both ends. FE is a great series because it focuses (or, used to focus, but I think they came back to it eventually) on inherent value. Titania (FE9) comes to mind as a good example of a well-written woman with both physical strength and strength of character who makes sense in her role and isn't objectified. She's a quiet pillar of strength to those around her, and is self-sacrificing without being loud about it. She's had training in the Crimean military, which eventually led into her becoming a mercenary (and was one of the first to join Griel), so her backstory makes complete sense for the role she has. Honestly, seeing her as a duo unit with Elena would be really interesting, I think, since the two got along well (as I recall) (though, really, I'd rather see Elena in other forms.) The series also showed that women can be wicked, and doesn't try to hide or excuse that fact (Ursula from FE7, for example, gave a reason but not an excuse for her behavior) which I appreciate. There was nothing extraordinary about these women, at least not rooted in "because they are women." What made them great or terrible were other atributes, which can (and are) also attributed to men. Slayde (FE15) is very much like Petrine (FE9): sniveling, cruel, and cowardly (though, admittedly, Slayde is much more obvious about it.)

Of course, there are still gendered archetypes (the graceful and serene female (Elice (FE1/3/11/12), Emmeryn (FE12), Natasha (FE8)... Usually queens, mothers, and clerics), or the man protecting his family through force (Valbar (FE2/15), and Garcia (FE8), for example. These are usually fathers or older brothers) WITHOUT being near tears (like, "I don't want to do this! I hate this! Fighting is terrible!" like the girls can get into)), but it tends to be more "because it's in-character" than "because this character is filling a role." TENDS TO BE. One that still bugs me is Olivia. Like, if you hate drawing attention to yourself, and are constantly telling people to look away from you, then wear something that blends in more and get a new job. To me, it seems more like they wanted someone who's cute because she's embarrassed and shy, but still wearing revealing things, and actually looking at the character and asking themselves "what would she realistically wear or do?". You CAN be a dancer without flashing everyone. Actually, that would have made for an interesting character arc: Olivia being modestly-dressed and still a dancer, and proving her ability through dancing alone, without relying on scanty outfits. Honestly, if someone feels uncomfortable wearing something, it will not be the go-to outfit.

 

Anyway, the point is that this is a problem easily resolved, but IS doesn't want to. End of story. The female mythic bloat is due to IS wanting to sell females, not due to the excessive number of female Heroes-native characters (which is a separate but related problem.)

That's my observation.

Edited by Mercakete

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8 hours ago, Othin said:

Those seem like much lower priority. So far, Altina is the only character in Heroes who hasn't personally appeared in the source game. Roland, Durban, and Forseti appeared as spirits, which is points for them, but those are also all guys.

I had to look up who Artemis was - I don't remember ever hearing about her before, lol.

It's possible that they'll dig further into them over time in search of the female characters in those lineups, but I don't expect those to be the main source of non-OC mythics anytime soon.

I could see them adding Artemis with weird *ss kit. Or being in a duo hero with Anri. Anri will definitely get in at some point as long as the game is running, but I could see them adding Artemis if they greatly desired a female mythic (they would probably have an OC for that though). As for the Crusaders, I can definitely see them adding Noba, Ullr, and Fala in before their male counterparts except Forseti. It's funny how one of the only crusaders named after a female norse figure, Thrud, is made into a man.

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

Anri I could see at some point, but Artemis is just too minor. Like sure she has some artwork in Shadow Dragon, or rather there's a female figure near Anri that's probably Artemis, but it's just too limited for me to really see getting into Heroes. Everything from her weapons to her personality to even the bulk of her design would be original. It'd basically be the name and that's it (this goes for Iote and that thief guy who founded Archanea too). The 12 Crusaders have more going for them with at least having usable weapons, but their artwork wasn't even featured in the game and none of them really carve out a niche large enough in the backstory that elevates them above the others. Granted that's true for Altina vs Soan too, but I expect we will see Soan some day, if only because we need more armoured beasts. Even though we're back to the no artwork issue, I would actually prefer to see Galle as a Genealogy Mythic, showing us what Loptyr was like at the height of his power (and actually giving us a decent Loptyr unis as Julius was underwhelming even in his debut). Outside of your mentioned examples, the Elibe legendary characters have a bit more going for them as, aside from us already getting Braimmond and Athos being an outright palyable character, Roland, Durban and Elimine all show up in the games in some form. So with 2/8 of them likely to be playable and 5/8 of them having something resembling characters and artwork to draw from, finishing off the last 3 isn't too difficult, especially when one of them is Hartmut, the most important of the group.

Well Thor did a wear a dress that one time. So maybe Heroes Thor is male. Would certainly be a twist XD

There is also this picture of her here along with Caldas.

FEMN_Artemis.gif

If they wanted to "update" her design, she could be a brunette version of Nyna. There isn't much going for her characterization-wise, but that's ok in my opinion. She's an open template for designers to figure out, like Altina. The only thing we know for sure is that she loves Anri, and that's all they really need. Altina and Bramimond didn't have a lot, but they got some characterization.

As for your Thor wearing a dress comment, we do have this character:

yfn4m8drhry51.jpg

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5 hours ago, Dandy Druid said:

I could see them adding Artemis with weird *ss kit. Or being in a duo hero with Anri. Anri will definitely get in at some point as long as the game is running, but I could see them adding Artemis if they greatly desired a female mythic (they would probably have an OC for that though). As for the Crusaders, I can definitely see them adding Noba, Ullr, and Fala in before their male counterparts except Forseti. It's funny how one of the only crusaders named after a female norse figure, Thrud, is made into a man.

There is also this picture of her here along with Caldas.

FEMN_Artemis.gif

If they wanted to "update" her design, she could be a brunette version of Nyna. There isn't much going for her characterization-wise, but that's ok in my opinion. She's an open template for designers to figure out, like Altina. The only thing we know for sure is that she loves Anri, and that's all they really need. Altina and Bramimond didn't have a lot, but they got some characterization.

Well unless they're just utterly fanatical about adding females over males, I think it's safe to say we'll see Anri before we see Artemis. Maybe a duo unit after that if Anri's successful, but largely she's a pretty minor lore character compared to most. They haven't even put Medeus in the game yet 😕  If she ever does get in though, I think they could justify giving her a version of Parthia as her weapon, given Artemeis was the Greek god of the hunt.

And while Altina is a good comparison, Bramimond actually is a character in Blazing Blade, so him getting in wasn't much of a stretch at all (though I kind of feel like Athos should have gotten in before him). Though I'm still confused why they didn't outright call his weapon Apocalypse when that's clearly what it is.

Quote

As for your Thor wearing a dress comment, we do have this character:

yfn4m8drhry51.jpg

Yeah, that's exactly who we were talking about. Someone complained how Thor was gender swapped and I brought up how Thor did wear a dress that one time

Edited by Jotari

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Honestly I don't mind the Mythics being mostly OCs, because otherwise we'd be stuck with a roster dominated by dragons. I actually take more issue with them making mythic units with characters who never actually appear in their base game's story outside of flashbacks (Altina). If I had to choose between OCs and stuff like the Jugdral Crusaders (sans Forseti) or the Elibe Heroes (sans Athos, Brammimond, Roland and Durban), I'd pick the OCs every time.

Edited by UNLEASH IT

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5 minutes ago, UNLEASH IT said:

Honestly I don't mind the Mythics being mostly OCs, because otherwise we'd stuck with a roster dominated by dragons. I actually take more issue with them making mythic units with characters who never actually appear in their base game's story outside of flashbacks (Altina). If I had to choose between OCs and stuff like the Jugdral Crusaders (sans Forseti) or the Elibe Heroes (sans Athos, Brammimond, Roland and Durban), I'd pick the OCs every time.

Personally, I put the two groups on the same level. They're both characters with no meaningful presence in any previous games and have much of their personalities and appearances made up in Heroes. The ones with major roles in their past games (like Ashera) are the ones I really care about, but there aren't too many of those, so as long as we get them all eventually, I don't mind splitting the other slots between OCs and Altina-like characters.

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Reminder that Mirabilis (the most worthless and least interesting Book IV OC by a wide margin) is a Mythic Hero while Nemesis is not.

Yes, I know Mirabilis was a midpoint Mythic and no I don’t care. The fact that she is a Mythic instead of Nemesis is ridiculous all the same.

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On 05/30/21 at 10:02 AM, Othin said:

The all-female chain will probably get another entry next week in the form of Nott

You called it.  Streaks now at 10.

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15 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

Reminder that Mirabilis (the most worthless and least interesting Book IV OC by a wide margin) is a Mythic Hero while Nemesis is not.

Yes, I know Mirabilis was a midpoint Mythic and no I don’t care. The fact that she is a Mythic instead of Nemesis is ridiculous all the same.

I think we can all agree that there is no definitiv rule to who is a mythic/legendary and who is nott. That was the case allready in Book 2 when Surtr wasnt a legendary. Or that Lilina got the legendary treatment. IS will slap the mythic/legendary brand on whoever they wish to slap it on.

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