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Let's Grade Some Gambits, Epilogue: Results on Page 4!


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Hello, denizens of the Forest -

So, there's something I've been thinking about doing for a while. Namely, going through all the battalions in Fire Emblem: Three Houses, and assigning them a score. Thereby, creating something of a "tier list" among all the battalions available. The purpose of this thread is... not to do that. Rather, it's to take care of a necessary step, in advance of assessing the battalions - namely, assessing the gambits that they bring with them.

Here's what I'm thinking - each Gambit will be graded on a scale from 1 to 10. If difficulty would be relevant to the ranking, let's assume New Game Maddening (if you're ranking by a different standard, of course I won't stop you, but please make it clear). In case it's relevant, again, assume access to DLC and Nintendo Switch Online. I'll provide my score, and everyone else is welcome to share their own score, too. Gambits will be graded on:

  • Damage and hit rate (offensive only)
  • Charges per map
  • Range and Area-of-Effect
  • Side and/or support effects

As important to figure out, though, is what I'd rather NOT see gambits graded on, such as:

  • What battalions they're attached too
  • Availability and Usability
  • Aesthetic considerations or personal taste

...Okay, maybe a +/-1 bias point will be allowed on the last one. But attributes of any associated battalion should not be considered. Why not? Well, when we eventually get to grading the battalions themselves, then those considerations (stat boosts, availability, usability) will be factored in, alongside gambit performance. For the time being, however, I'd like to try looking at each gambit, as much as possible, in a vacuum. Make sense?

In terms of organization, there are (per my latest count) 37 usable gambits in the game. And a lot of them bear similarities with one another. So I'm thinking, grade several similar gambits (say, that share an AoE) as a single "Chapter", with 2 or 3 new chapters each week (so don't worry about missing a day). Optimistically, I could see covering all the gambits in the course of about six weeks.

List of Gambits, with average ratings (and number of reviews):

Spoiler

Disturbance: 4.25 (6)

Onslaught: 2.917 (6)

Assembly: 3.333 (6)

Reversal: 1.833 (6)

Lure: 3.5 (6)

Assault Troop: 5.8 (5)

Flash-Fire Arrows: 6.2 (5)

Fusillade: 7 (4)

Poisoned Arrows: 7.875 (4)

Blaze: 5.833 (6)

Poison Tactic: 5.833 (6)

Absorption: 2.333 (6)

Mad Melee: 3.9 (5)

Group Lance Attack: 3 (5)

Random Shot: 1.8 (5)

Line of Lances: 6.25 (4)

Linked Horses: 3.875 (4)

Battleground Cleanup: 2.875 (4)

Group Flames: 4.875 (4)

Group Ice: 4.125 (4)

Group Lightning: 3 (4)

Resonant Flames: 7.5 (4)

Resonant Ice: 6.75 (4)

Resonant Lightning: 5.75 (4)

Raging Flames: 8.125 (4)

Wave Attack: 8.625 (4)

Ashes and Dust: 9.75 (4)

Impregnable Wall: 7.917 (6)

Sacred Shield: 5.667 (6)

Resonant White Magic: 2.6 (5)

Retribution: 9 (5)

Stride: 9.167 (6)

Recovery Roar: 1.417 (6)

Blessing: 5.643 (7)

Dance of the Goddess: 8.714 (7)

Absolute Defense: 3.333 (6)

Battleground Cafe: 3.5 (6)

Index of AoE Names:

Spoiler

Short Line: hits the target, and one space behind the target

Long Line: hits the target, and three spaces (in sequence) behind the target

Plus Sign: hits the target, and everyone adjacent to the target

Triangle: hits the target, plus 2 spaces to their left and right (each), a row of 3 spaces behind them, and one space 2 rows back

Diamond: hits the target, and everyone within 2 spaces of the target

Front: hits the target, plus 1 space to the left and right (each) of the target

Box: hits the target, plus 1 space to the left and right (each) of the target, plus 1 space behind all aforementioned spaces

Large Box: hits the target, plus 2 spaces to the left and right (each) of the target, plus 1 space behind all aforementioned spaces

So, how does this sound? Like something you'd want to be a part of? Or, not your flight of fancy? Does this approach seem structurally sound, or do you have suggested changes in how I might go about this? I'm all ears! Thank you for reading. I've attached a spreadsheet that, if I'm not mistaken, lists all the gambits available in Three Houses. If anything is missing or mistaken, though, please let me know. Expect the first chapter by this weekend. Look forward to it!

Gambit_List.xlsx

Edited by Shanty Pete's 1st Mate
All Grades are In!
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It's probably worth considering how you want to account for difficulty. There are definitely some gambits which I would rate considerably differently depending on difficulty. My preference is to rate each one according to whichever difficulty it performs the best in, but there are other possibilities too. But ideally everyone will be using the same criteria.

Also, excel spreadsheets probably aren't the best way to share information. Not everyone has software that opens them (I don't!) and not everyone is willing to download files that can potentially contain malware (I'm not!).

Beyond that: yeah, I'm interested in participating. I'll probably end up missing at least a few, but I'm definitely interested.

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1 hour ago, lenticular said:

It's probably worth considering how you want to account for difficulty. There are definitely some gambits which I would rate considerably differently depending on difficulty. My preference is to rate each one according to whichever difficulty it performs the best in, but there are other possibilities too. But ideally everyone will be using the same criteria.

Good point. I do think a standardized difficulty would be ideal. In my experience, tier lists generally assume the highest difficulty possible. So, let's set NG Maddening as the standard (I'll add this to the initial prompt). Also, I think assuming DLC access is reasonable (a few gambits are DLC-only, and thereby can only sensibly be rated assuming DLC access).

2 hours ago, lenticular said:

Also, excel spreadsheets probably aren't the best way to share information. Not everyone has software that opens them (I don't!) and not everyone is willing to download files that can potentially contain malware (I'm not!).

Those are fair points; I just did it this way because it was easiest for me at the moment. I may change this, if another method is widely considered preferable. In either case, I intend to provide the stats of each battalion as they come up in the rating process. Perhaps I will add a list to the initial prompt, too, and mark them off as we get through them.

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51 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Those are fair points; I just did it this way because it was easiest for me at the moment. I may change this, if another method is widely considered preferable. In either case, I intend to provide the stats of each battalion as they come up in the rating process. Perhaps I will add a list to the initial prompt, too, and mark them off as we get through them.

Google Sheet (view only) on a burner account.  Microsoft also has a similar service, if you're not fond of Google.

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Here's my list of opinions on the gambits. I tried to fill out the rankings. Like something has to be 10/10 and something has to be 1/10.

Spoiler
  • Ashes and Dust (10/10): A wide radius 2-3 range offensive gambit is pretty nuts. And it still has 2 uses.
  • Stride (9/10): Movement is king, and this gambit gives your team a huge advantage with reach and placement.
  • Fusillade (8/10): A weaker Ashes and Dust, but it is available early in the game. A slight plus to Poisoned Arrows(8.5/10) because it's more accurate.
  • Retribution (8/10): Giving your units Distant Counter to deal with really long range enemies is pretty good. This also enables Dimitri, or any unit with the right setup, to infamously break Part 2 of the game.
  • Raging Flame (7.5/10): This makes up for being a horizontal attacking gambit by having even more reach and 2 uses. Does really good damage and the fire effect is an added bonus.
  • Impregnable Wall (7.5/10): You get this battalion relatively early, and it allows you to safely bait enemies so that your guys can gang up on them the next turn instead. Pretty good for consistency in Maddening, until you can build good dodge tanks.
  • Wave Attack (7/10): Strong, good hit rate, and 2 uses. Way better than it's alternative which is Absorption. Effective against Armor is a nice bonus.
  • Assault Troop/Flash-Fire Arrows (7/10): These are solid offensive battalions, hitting 4 spaces in a line and they have 2 uses.
  • Resonant Magic (6.5/10): These are some strong wide range nuking battalions, but only have 1 use. I personally rate the Lighting variant (6/10) lower because it's accuracy is pretty low (40).
  • Dance of the Goddess (6.5/10): Being able to "Dance" 3 units is pretty huge. This gambit has a small range so you have to have really good positioning to get the most out of it. It's tied to either a route exclusive A-rank or late game B-rank battalion, so it's not too widely available.
  • Line of Lances(6/10): You get these most the battalions with this gambit later in the game, or early in a specific route. It's pretty strong, but generally it's range isn't too applicable over other battalions I feel. Effective against cavalry is a nice bonus.
  • Blaze/Poison Tactic (6/10): You get access to these gambits pretty early, and even though they only have 1 use, they're great at decisive moments on a map.
  • Sacred Shield (6/10): This is only available for the Blue Lions route (so that you can deal with the final boss better), but it is good in allowing you to take ranged hits, and there is no reduced damage draw back like with Impregnable Wall. So that's a nice niche when dealing with ranged enemies.
  • Blessing (5.5/10): The Miracle effect is pretty good, but is pretty niche most of the time.
  • Group Magic (5.5/10): Similar to Fusillade, but only has one use. Again I rate the Lightning (5/10) variant lower due to it's accuracy.
  • Battleground Cafe/Absolute Defense (5/10): Group-wide buffs are pretty nice, but they are DLC only.
  • Liked Horses (4.5/10): This is tied to all A-rank battalions, so it's hard to get, and those battalions are not as good as the paralogue battalions. Similar issue to Line of Lances where I feel it's range is awkward.
  • Lure/Reversal/Assembly (4/10): They have short range, but can have some interesting tactical use with repositioning an enemy.
  • Disturbance/Onslaught (3.5/10): Pretty good for when they are available. Disturbance has better hit, and Onslaught knocking an enemy back is useful when your units only have 4 movement.
  • Battleground Cleanup (3.5/10): Low accuracy, single use, and DLC only. At least the battalion it is tied to is only C rank so most units can use it.
  • Group Lance Attack (3/10): These horizontal attacking gambits are pretty awkward to use, but this one has decent damage. Mad Melee (2.5/10): when the battalion is relevant your low mov units make using this gambit super awkward. Random Shot (2/10): lower rating due to lower accuracy.
  • Resonant White Magic (3/10): Group heal is nice, but this quickly falls off after the first few chapters. Especially when your units are far apart from each other because they have 7+ mov. Then there is a certain battalion that dares to be A rank.
  • Recovery Roar (1.5/10): Very niche. It's an option if your Wyvern has nothing better to do, and your Cleric has something else to do.
  • Absorbtion (1/10): Terrible hit rate and a single use.

Speaking of this topic the main site still hasn't filled out some of the gambit info.

Edited by LoneStar
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6 hours ago, eclipse said:

Google Sheet (view only) on a burner account.  Microsoft also has a similar service, if you're not fond of Google.

I will look into one of these, when I'm back on my PC.

2 hours ago, Barren said:

Are we talking about how we rate them in terms of gambit use and it’s AoE or the stat buffs it offers when maxed out?

The bolded part. The stats will be considered when it comes to rating the battalions themselves. Which will be a follow-up series.

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1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I will look into one of these, when I'm back on my PC.

The bolded part. The stats will be considered when it comes to rating the battalions themselves. Which will be a follow-up series.

Got it. Good to know

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Chapter 1: Disturbance and the Repositionals

It should come as no surprise, to anyone with a passing familiarity with the gambit system, that we would start out with the simplest and most abundant offensive gambit in the game. What may be a surprise, though, is that we would consider four of its friends, at the same time. I'll list the details of each one below:

Disturbance

Spoiler

Type: Physical

Might: 4

Hit: 60

Range: 1

Uses: 2

AoE: Short Line

Effect: None.

Onslaught

Spoiler

Type: Physical

Might: 8

Hit: 50

Range: 1

Uses: 2

AoE: Short Line

Effect: Shoves primary target 1 space away, if possible.

Assembly

Spoiler

Type: Physical

Might: 4

Hit: 50

Range: 1

Uses: 2

AoE: Short Line

Effect: Draws Back primary target by 1 space, if possible.

Reversal

Spoiler

Type: Physical

Might: 8

Hit: 50

Range: 1

Uses: 2

AoE: Short Line

Effect: Swaps positions with the target, if possible.

Lure

Spoiler

Type: Physical

Might: 4

Hit: 50

Range: 1

Uses: 2

AoE: Short Line

Effect: Repositions the target behind the user, if possible.

So please, provide your ratings for each of these gambits! As a reminder of the guidelines we'll be using:

On 6/3/2021 at 9:17 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Here's what I'm thinking - each Gambit will be graded on a scale from 1 to 10. If difficulty would be relevant to the ranking, let's assume New Game Maddening (if you're ranking by a different standard, of course I won't stop you, but please make it clear). In case it's relevant, again, assume access to DLC and Nintendo Switch Online. I'll provide my score, and everyone else is welcome to share their own score, too. Gambits will be graded on:

  • Damage and hit rate (offensive only)
  • Charges per map
  • Range and Area-of-Effect
  • Side and/or support effects

As important to figure out, though, is what I'd rather NOT see gambits graded on, such as:

  • What battalions they're attached too
  • Availability and Usability
  • Aesthetic considerations or personal taste

...Okay, maybe a +/-1 bias point will be allowed on the last one. But attributes of any associated battalion should not be considered. Why not? Well, when we eventually get to grading the battalions themselves, then those considerations (stat boosts, availability, usability) will be factored in, alongside gambit performance. For the time being, however, I'd like to try looking at each gambit, as much as possible, in a vacuum. Make sense?

Now, here come my own ranking below. I'm spoiler-tagging them, so they won't influence your own perceptions:

Spoiler

Disturbance is the most basic gambit in the game, and there's not a lot of good to say about it. At first, the promise of "Rattling" the foes - freezing them in place, and reducing their stats - sounds like a great reason to use it. But despite what the description may suggest, this power is in no way unique to Disturbance - rather, it is ubiquitous of all offensive gambits in the game.

What's bad about it? Well, aside from lacking any side effects, there's the Area of Effect. "Short Line" is the single smallest AoE in the game, affecting a maximum of 2 targets at a time (I made up this term, but it can be found in the Index in the OP, among others). If you wish to hold many foes in place for a turn, Disturbance isn't getting the job done. And a Might of 4 is, honestly, pretty paltry.

That said, it's not all bad news. All offensive gambits in the game get either 1 or 2 uses, and Disturbance gets the benefit of a second charge. Use one now, save one for later. Additionally, its base Hit rate of 60 is certainly respectable - in the hands of a high-Charm unit, and with some linked attack support, you can have a guaranteed hit at your disposal. All things considered, I'm giving this gambit a value of 3. It's not terrible, but there's very little it brings to the table that other gambits don't.

Onslaught looks a bit better at first - its Might jumps to 8, and it has the effect of Shoving the target away. Unlike in Tellius, there aren't many options to move enemies, so this may sound welcome. That said, moving the target can create a closure as often as it makes an opening - by pushing them further away, they may now be outside the range of any of my attackers. Moreover, the Might-increase comes at a cost of 10 Hit - so you'll want even more linked attack support this time. I find the pluses and the minuses here to balance out, so I'm giving this one a 3.

Assembly is stuck at 4 Might, while also dropping to 50 Hit. So, is it a strictly worse Disturbance? Not necessarily. While Shoving may put an enemy out of range of one of your back-benchers, Drawing Back can instead bring them into range to be finished off. And if you don't want to move your unit back a space, there's often the option to put a unit behind them (say, providing a gambit boost). That said, this is a pretty weak one, all things considered - and I don't think the Draw Back effect is enough to save it. I'm assessing this one as a 2.

Reversal is the rarest among the repositional gambits, showing up only on Empire Wyvern Co. Much like Onslaught, it has 8 Might and 50 Hit - as well as possessing the 2 uses and "Short Line" effect of all others discussed today. In this case, however, the user Swaps position with the target. This one, I believe, will happen regardless of how other units are positioned, since it doesn't depend on an empty space. Used carelessly, it can put its user into danger. But used cleverly, it can offer an extra point of movement, while (like Assembly) bringing the target nearer to those who can finish it off. As such, I believe this one is worth a 4.

Lure is the last one we'll consider today, and naturally, it comes with the Reposition effect. Its user will stay in place, while the target will be brought behind the user, if possible. Like Assembly, it has 4 Might and 50 Hit. In this case, I do think the Reposition effect is good enough to make up for the slight loss in Hit, relative to disturbance. So I'm giving it a 3.

Looking forward to hearing what everyone else has to say!

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Disturbance: 4/10. An innate 60 hit is certainly nice. But yeah, only having AoE 2 isn't great.

Onslaught: 3/10. 10 less hit than Disturbance makes it clearly worse, IMO. The push is nearly useless; you usually use this gambit against two targets, and it doesn't push in that circumstance. It has a bit more might but might isn't the reason to use gambits.

Assembly: 3/10. Its pull is more useful than Onslaught's Push, because it acts as a hit-and-run (FEH parlance) effect, which can sometimes let you get back to safety. But still nothing too special, that's a one-per-playthrough benefit, and sometimes it can even hurt. I think it offsets the 4 might loss compared to Onslaught, that's it.

Reversal: 1/10. This is bugged; if you switch places, you sometimes don't rattle the second target. I haven't documented exactly when it happens, but that's enough to drop it to the bottom tier for me unless someone can tell me a reliable way to avoid this. (A shame because Empire Wyverns is good.)

Lure: 3/10. Kinda like Assemby, the effect is sometimes useful (in this case, throwing a big monster 3 squares closer to the rest of your team), but not enough for a significant score boost.

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Disturbance: 5/10. The good part to this is that it has 60% base hit rate and two uses. The bad part is that it has bad AoE, bad might, bad range, and no secondary effect. And while these are definitely big downsides, I do like its reliability. If all you're looking to do is rattle one or two enemies that you can't kill this turn or take down a single tile of monster armour to create an opening for your other units, then this is basically perfect for the job, especially for units with lower charm who will really value the hit rate.

Onslaught: 2/10. The shove ends up being bad more often than good. Yes, there can be occasional cases where it's exactly what you need, but there can also be occasional cases where it's exactly what you don't need. And as a general rule, once an enemy is rattled, I'm more likely to want them nearer to my army, not further away. I also don't like the repositional gambits in general because I am prone to forget about them, and anything that increases my cognitive load and increses the likelihood of mistakes is bad. Especially when they aren't offering any useful benefit in return. Meanwhile, when comaring this to Disturbance, you lose 10% hit and gain 4 might. Given that gambits are more useful for armour breaking and rattling than for raw damage, losing hit is significant but gaining damage -- especially a fairly paltry 4 points of damage -- is not.

Assembly: 3/10. Better than Onslaught because the draw back effect is actually more likely to be useful than harmful, and the might loss is largely irrelevant. Still not good though.

Reversal: 1/10. I've never actually seen the bug that Dark Holy Elf mentioned, but I'm willing to trust him on it, and that would definitely make this awful. Especially since I was only going to give it 2/10 otherwise, since it has most of the same problems as Onslaught.

Lure: 3/10. I feel much the same about this one as I do about Assembly. The reposition effect is maybe a small net positive, but only maybe and only small. Otherwise this is just a worse Disturbance that throws away the one thing that's actually good about Disturbance.

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I’ll give my brief thoughts on these gambits.

 

Disturbance - 5/10

I don’t mind it’s reliable accuracy which can be boosted thanks to linked attacks and rally charm. The damage and range is disappointing and aside from freezing them into place, it’s lack of effect doesn’t help it’s case. Still it’s about as good a you’ll get early on.

 

Onslaught - 3/10

The improved damage is nice but the push back effect at times might not be what you want. There are situations where it’s nice though, like being able to get another unit unit in range incase of a bottleneck. But more often than not you might accidentally push them into tiles where they’ll get increased avoid and that’ll suck if that happens.

 

Assembly - 4/10

The lack of damage compared to onslaught is noticeable but pushing the enemy towards you I find to be more useful especially if your allies could use them to be closer for them to get into range. 
 

Reversal - 1/10

I didn’t know that there was a bug. Perhaps I might run into myself if I ever try it out. But yea, swapping places sounds like a little too random for it to work. Plus the placement of the target can be unpredictable at times.

Lure - 4/10

Same opinion as Assembly except it has reposition this time around. As usually, it’s good when it works in your favor.

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Thanks for the feedback, everyone! If you haven't yet, try to get your rankings in by tomorrow - chapter 2 should be coming then. That said, if anyone arrives late and wants to rate retroactively, then I'll do my best to factor that in.

On 6/5/2021 at 4:33 PM, Dark Holy Elf said:

Reversal: 1/10. This is bugged; if you switch places, you sometimes don't rattle the second target. I haven't documented exactly when it happens, but that's enough to drop it to the bottom tier for me unless someone can tell me a reliable way to avoid this. (A shame because Empire Wyverns is good.)

I honestly wasn't aware of this one. I tried reopening my SS Endgame and testing it, but couldn't find any adjacent enemies to test it on. That said, I don't doubt it. I considered lowering my own grade for it, but honestly everyone else's grades are gonna bring it down regardless. 

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The first post has been updated with the results of Chapter 1. Disturbance has done disturbingly well, while Reversal has seen its own fortunes reversed! Now, how about today?

Chapter Two: Assault Troop, and Arrows that burn

Do two spaces not feel like enough to you? Well, rest assured, because the next two gambits are here to answer your prayers.

Assault Troop

Spoiler

Type: Physical

Might: 10

Hit: 50

Range: 1

Uses: 2

AoE: Long Line

Effect: None.

Flash-Fire Arrows

Spoiler

Type: Physical

Might: 7

Hit: 50

Range: 1

Uses: 2

AoE: Long Line

Effect: Sets terrain on fire. Deals bonus damage against fliers.

The gambit's areas-of-effect may be long, but I'll try to keep my explanations brief:

Spoiler

Assault Troop is what happens when you take Disturbance, and make it... well, better. It gains 6 points of Might, while affecting two more spaces behind the initial target. It's a fairly common gambit, showing up as early as Jeralt's Mercenaries, and it's very tempting to use against enemies who are kind enough to line themselves up for you. That said, it does lose out 10 points of Hit relative to Disturbance. A small price to pay for an improved AoE, though. This one feels pretty average to me, so I'll give it a 5. It's great in the earlygame, but once more complex gambits start showing up, it tends to be more of a "bonus" that shows up on otherwise-good battalions.

Flash-Fire Arrows are kind of weird - an arrow attack that you have to use at 1-range? It kind of makes sense - while the first arrow may hit the primary target, the others sail over his head, to root his luckless comrades in place. Oh, and set them on fire. It sounds bad, but believe me, we've plenty bigger war crimes to commit. Suffering 3 less Might than Assault Troop seems like a problem, but honestly I like the flair (heh) this one brings. And effective damage is always welcome - not only does its functional Might increase to 21 against flying enemies, it can also more readily shatter the shields of flying monsters (a boon, in a game where monster-effective gambits are mysteriously missing). The flames can damage the rattled foes, but they can also limit your own army's movement, so that part's a wash (heh heh). I feel good enough to give this one a 6 - on maps with more than a few flying foes, it can do even more than the useful Assault Troop.

Just a couple this time. I look forward to your own reviews!

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  • Shanty Pete's 1st Mate changed the title to Let's Grade Some Gambits, Chapter 2: Assault Troop, Arrows that Burn

Assault Troops: 5/10. I'm giving this the same rating as Disturbance, but while I was torn between 4 and 5 for Disturbance, I was torn between 5 and 6 here. I always value getting this on Jeralt's Mercenaries at the start of the game, but I think that's more to do with scarcity than quality. If I had a bunch of Assault Troop Battalions and exactly one that had Disturbance, I'm sure I'd love the extra accuracy and reliability. As is, I think that it's a trade-off. Assault troops are undeniably better against massed ranks of infantry, but Disturbance is better for stripping armour from monsters or when there's that one enemy that you absolutely need to rattle.

Flash-Fire Arrows: 6/10. I'm honestly not sure I've ever actually used this one. It seems that the most prominent battalion that has it is the Edmund Troops, which is the reward from a fairly late paralogue and has hybrid strength/magic stat boosts, so I'm not surprised that I skipped it. Regardless, this is theorycraft more than actual experience. the burning effect on gambits isn't one I really care about either way. Occasionally it comes in useful, occasionally it's detrimental, most of the time it's just there. So the question is whether the lower might but bonus damage against fliers changes the rating at all relative to Assault Troops. The lower damage isn't really a big deal, but the bonus damage can be nice, albeit situational. At 21 effective might is up to the point where you can do some decent damage actually start to think about scoring a kill with this. Only against fliers, of course, but that's still better than nothing. If you can kill one unit and then rattle three (or even one) unit behind them, then that's a great use of a turn. I think that's enough overall to push this to a higher score than Assault Troops.

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Assault Troop: 6/10. I really like Assault Troop, more than it deserves. This is because it's both either the best or second best earlygame offensive gambit (via Jeralt's Mercenaries) and it's the gambit of IMO the best non-lord battalion in the game, Cichol Wyverns. And because a number of other advanced flying battalions either have worse gambits (e.g. Galatea's Lure) or ones which don't take advantage of high charm (e.g. Black Eagle Pegasus's Retribution), I find myself preferring Assault Troop for my lord or other best flying character. But as lenticular correctly notes, I'm really just attributing quality to the scarcity of what it offers. Jeralt's Mercenaries or Cichol Wyverns would be even better if they had Fusillade instead, for instance.

That said, I do think the gambit itself is quite solid. Enemies tend to move in packs and it's remarkably common how often you can get 3-4 at once with this. Rattling 3-4 enemies at once tends to mean you won that turn, one or two key moments like this mean you win the battle. Large gambits also have an easier time breaking multiple monster barriers at once when two or more monsters are present, though there are better ones still than this to come. I think it's enough for a slightly above average score.

Flash-Fire Arrows: 6/10. Assault Troop by another name, way worse availability aside. Yeah, it might occasionally notch a OHKO against a flier that Assault Troop will miss, but with 3 lower base might it might also miss a OHKO against a mage that Assault Troop gets. I'm not seeing much daylight between them overall.

Edited by Dark Holy Elf
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And that's Chapter Two wrapped up! To no likely surprise, both Assault Troop and Flash-Fire Arrows surpassed the gambits previously discussed. Now, let's take a shot at what's next:

Chapter 3: Fusillade, Poisoned Arrows

Like our last-discussed gambit, these two also incorporate arrows. Yet they do so in a rather different manner. Let's take a look-see!

Fusillade

Spoiler

Type: Physical

Might: 5

Hit: 50

Range: 2~3

Uses: 2

AoE: Plus Sign

Effect: Deals bonus damage to fliers.

Poisoned Arrows

Spoiler

Type: Physical

Might: 4

Hit: 60

Range: 2~3

Uses: 2

AoE: Plus Sign

Effect: Inflicts poison status on targets. Deals bonus damage to fliers.

A brief recap of the grading guidelines:

Spoiler

Here's what I'm thinking - each Gambit will be graded on a scale from 1 to 10. If difficulty would be relevant to the ranking, let's assume New Game Maddening (if you're ranking by a different standard, of course I won't stop you, but please make it clear). In case it's relevant, again, assume access to DLC and Nintendo Switch Online. I'll provide my score, and everyone else is welcome to share their own score, too. Gambits will be graded on:

Damage and hit rate (offensive only)

Charges per map

Range and Area-of-Effect

Side and/or support effects

Now, what do I think of these two gambits? Give me a second to take aim below:

Spoiler

Fusillade: A simple glance might spy an inferior version of Flash-Fire Arrows, with 3 less Might and no fire effect. Sure, it has a slightly larger AoE, but what's the big difference between 5 tiles and 4? That is, until you take a look at the range. While the vast majority of physical gambits require you to get "up close and personal" with the target, Fusillade can be used 2, or even 3 spaces away. This is huge, in terms of giving the player options, as targets who would otherwise sit outside of gambit range are now accessible. If need be, you can even gambit foes from across impassible terrain! And let's not forget, it's effective against fliers, and it gets a second use. There's more to this gambit than first meets the eye, and I consider it well-deserving a grade of 7 out of 10.

Poisoned Arrows: Here we have Fusillade's much rarer cousin, found only on two battalions (Alliance Archers, Sauin Militia) in the game. Most of what I had to say about the last one apply here - two uses good, flier effectiveness is welcome, and 2~3 range is a game-changer. This gambit has a touch more flavor, gaining the ability to poison foes, but poison so rarely makes a difference in the player's hands that this is hardly worth an aside. The real trade-off here is 1 point of Might, for 10 Hit. To be sure, doing 3 less damage against fliers is a disappointment - but having more security in dealing damage in the first place is always a boon. I tend to favor higher-hit gambits, even at a slight cost to might, and this one is no exception. I'd say an 8 out of 10 is where this gambit belongs.

Anyway, really looking forward to the grades y'all have to give! And don't feel intimidated - even if you haven't provided a score yet, and don't wish to back-track, you're welcome to hop in at any point.

Edited by Shanty Pete's 1st Mate
Added Chapter 3.
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  • Shanty Pete's 1st Mate changed the title to Let's Grade Some Gambits, Chapter 3: Fusillade, Poisoned Arrows

Fusillade: 7/10. I finally learned how to spell this! Anyway, Fusillade's good. Assault Troop can potentially get four enemies, this potentially gets five, already an obvious (if slight) advantage. Additionally, it's much more flexible in its targeting, due to its 2-3 range. Two plus shape gambits break a giant monster by themselves, too, another nice bonus. It's not quite as powerful as Assault Troop but that's not a big deal. Very solid. As a non-score-related comment, its early availability on Eagles files is also great.

Poisoned Arrows: 8/10. Fusillade, now with +10 hit! Agreed that this offsets any other differences between the gambits, hit is important! That said, I don't think I've ever actually used this one; the battalions it's attached to are mediocre at best (a 3-atk, 0-prot, 3-charm Chapter 8 battalion and a 1-atk post-timeskip battalion), and I don't think it's a good enough gambit to justify this.

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In terms of area effect, the small cross is just straight up better than the long line. Yes, there are a few occasions where the enemy just lines up exactly for a long line, but generally speaking I'd always prefer the small line if everything else is equal. It's better against individual units (with the potential to hit 5 units rather than just 4) and it's better against monsters, being able to take down an extra piece of armour with each use. Extra range is also nice. For infantry units (ie, those without Canto), extra range means that they can rattle an enemy and not be in range for a counter attack on enemy phase. It also means they can take down a monster's armour and leave open the space for melee units to get in and exploit the broken armour. The bonus damage against fliers is less relevant than on Flash Fire Arrows due to the lower base might, but it's still a pure upside. Poison is underwhelming and almost completely irrelevant, but it's also pure upside that's never going to be bad. Of note, out of all the gambits that have both 60 hit and 2 uses (ie, the gold standard for reliability), the only one with a better AoE than Poisoned Arrows is Wave Attack, which is deliberately overpowered.

Everything considered, I'm going to give Fusillade 6/10 and Poisoned Arrows 7/10.

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It looks like Fusillade and Poisoned Arrows really hit the mark for a lot of people, as they've become our second- and first-highest ranked gambits thus far! How long can we expect them to hold the silver and gold medals?

Chapter 4: Blaze, Poison Tactic, and Absorption

The first two are both quite similar to one another, while the last one has its own unique eccentricities. They all possess, however, a larger area-of-effect than anything we've analyzed thus far. Let's dive in!

Blaze

Spoiler

Type: Physical

Might: 10

Hit: 50

Range: 1

Uses: 1

AoE: Triangle

Effect: Sets terrain on fire.

Poison Tactic

Spoiler

Type: Physical

Might: 5

Hit: 60

Range: 1

Uses: 1

AoE: Triangle

Effect: Inflicts poison status on targets.

Absorption

Spoiler

Type: Physical

Might: 4

Hit: 30

Range: 1

Uses: 1

AoE: Diamond

Effect: Restores HP to user, equal to 50% of damage dealt to all foes.

A brief recap of the grading guidelines:

Spoiler

Here's what I'm thinking - each Gambit will be graded on a scale from 1 to 10. If difficulty would be relevant to the ranking, let's assume New Game Maddening (if you're ranking by a different standard, of course I won't stop you, but please make it clear). In case it's relevant, again, assume access to DLC and Nintendo Switch Online. I'll provide my score, and everyone else is welcome to share their own score, too. Gambits will be graded on:

  • Damage and hit rate (offensive only)
  • Charges per map
  • Range and Area-of-Effect
  • Side and/or support effects

As for my own thoughts? Well, open the box below to find out!

Spoiler

Blaze is one of the first gambits I think of it, when I think of "offensive gambits". We've been covering progressively wider AoEs - from two tiles, to four, to five. But this gambit blows yesterday's entrants out of the water, affecting as many as nine tiles in one move! Where Disturbance is surgical in precision, and Fusillade is useful to stop a small batch of enemies from getting any closer, Blaze is truly what you turn to when you're hopelessly surrounded. The enemy's at your doorstep, and you desperately need another turn to take them out, before they can finish you off. In this sense, it excels - 10 Might is solid, and 50 Hit is respectable enough. Interestingly, it shares these traits with Assault Troop. But one trait it doesn't share? A second use. If you go with Blaze, it's a one-and-done. This is the first such gambit we're dealing with, but it will hardly be the last. The flame effect can be a nice little boost to hurt the rattled enemies further, but it can also make it harder for your own troops to navigate the gambited area, so it's kind of a wash. Blaze is a nice card to keep in your back pocket, if things turn dire - but its single-use status is hard to overcome. All-in-all, I think a rating of 5 is fair.

Poison Tactic is similar to Blaze in the aspects that matter most - it's 1-range, has 1 charge, and covers the Triangle AoE. When we look to the stats, however, the differences emerge. 5 Might is... not so good. It's a precipitous drop-off from the 10 brought by Blaze. And where Flash-Fire Arrows could justify its lower Might, relative to Assault Troop, by its effective damage against fliers, Poison Tactic has no such luck. That said, it comes in at a high 60 Hit, so that's very welcome. And the poison effect may be considered a "net positive" (as it only affects the enemies), albeit a rather weak one, relative to the fire effect. Thus far, I've generally preferred lower-Mt-and-higher-Hit to the other way around - but that's been in cases where we're gaining 10 Hit at the expense of 1 Might, not at the more severe expense of 5 Might. So at the end of the day, these two roughly balance out. And while its Might is poor, its biggest bane remains its lack of a second charge. I'm giving this one a 5 as well.

Absorption, Absorption, Absorption... what are we gonna do with you? This gambit is an exercise in extremes. Covering the Diamond AoE, this is the most extensive gambit we've examined thus far. It covers 13 spaces, but as a 1-range gambit, you'll be occupying one such space... so 12. Oh, and unless you have Pass, another space will need to be clear for you to get into position for the gambit... so 11. That said, it's still the biggest one we've yet considered. And who could turn down an opportunity to safely, and reliably, freeze nearly a dozen of the enemy's fighting forces into place? Well, that's the rub, isn't it? Reliability? With a Hit rate of 30, Absorption sits head-and-shoulders below the rest, as the least accurate gambit in the game! And if it misses, you... don't get a second charge! But at least it makes up for it, with all of its... 4 Might! Its side effect, that of healing the user, is at least distinctive and quirky, and sounds useful enough at first. But I rarely have trouble finding a way to heal my units who need it, between healers, Vulneraries, Healing Focus, healing weapons and equippables, terrain, standing next to Dorothea, or manipulating the RNG to make Raphael's terrible personal ability work for me. Look, this one might just be the worst offensive gambit in the game - but I have to concede, it has a niche. In the hands of a high-charm unit, with plenty of linked attack support, it can function like a more-extensive Poison Tactic. It's rarely worth bringing, but the case where it winds up saving your squad, or helping you crack multiple monsters, is at least a conceivable one. Therefore, I'm begrudgingly granting this gambit a grade of 2.

That's all for today! I'm really looking forward to what y'all have to say. And, as a bit of a procedural question - should I keep on announcing the chapters a day ahead of time? Or will it be enough to just jump straight in to the next one? I don't want anyone to be taken off-guard, but it doesn't seem like advance notices have had any effect. Thanks!

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Blaze: 6/10. It's only one use, but it sure can be decisive. I suppose the simplest thing to do is compare it with Assault Troop. It hits 9 potential panels, whereas Assault Troop can hit four twice, i.e. 8 potential in all. Pretty balanced. Same thing with monsters; Assault Troop takes out 1.5 barriers on a single monster twice, while Blaze takes out 2.5 once (with more potential to hit another nearby monster). Do we value flexibility more or one raw, decisive hit more? If anything I think I lean a bit towards the latter. But probably not enough for a score improvement.

Poison Tactic: 6/10. Blaze but more accurate. However, the might cost is as noted, more substantial than usual for the hit boost. I could be talked into bumping it up a point to be consistent with my stance on Disturbance vs Onslaught, but...

Here's the thing. Its greatest availability is on a mage battalion (complete with a penalty to P Atk), but it's physical,. So in practice it's probably worse than this. Better on Brigid Hunters, a nice battalion for an infantry dodgetank. Still, we're supposed to be ignoring availability, and I assume that for gambits that deals physical damage, we rate it as a "how much do we value this on a hypothetical physical battalion". Maybe I'd push it up to 7 then. I'm unsure.

Absorption: 3/10. Definitely a "use with linked attacks only" battalion. Still, those are quite potent, and it's actually not crazy to get high hit numbers out of this. The healing gimmick is mostly not great, but the large AoE is always nice. Compared to the likes of Onslaught, I think it's pretty balanced... it's harder to hit with, but it does come with over double the rattling and monster barrier-breaking potential. Just... you'd really rather have Blaze, Poison Tactic, the Resonant series, etc.

3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

That's all for today! I'm really looking forward to what y'all have to say. And, as a bit of a procedural question - should I keep on announcing the chapters a day ahead of time? Or will it be enough to just jump straight in to the next one? I don't want anyone to be taken off-guard, but it doesn't seem like advance notices have had any effect. Thanks!

I'm interested in this thread so I'm checking often enough that it doesn't matter to me! Not sure how others may feel.

Pretty unfortunate this isn't getting more responses, but this forum has definitely died down in the past few months. A shame, I definitely find it one of the most pleasant places to discuss the nitty-gritty aspects of the game.

Edited by Dark Holy Elf
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I'm not a big fan of the triangle AoE gambits. In theory, hitting more tiles is great, but in practice I find that a lot of it is hitting at air. With Assault Troops, it's usually not too much of a problem to find a chance to hit three enemies with it. With Blaze or Poison Tactics, it's considerably rarer for the enemies to clump up into exactly the right pattern for you to hit 6 of them.

Against monsters, these can hit all four squares but so can gambits like Linked Horses or Line of Lances, and they get two charges. It's also worth noting that to fully break a monsters armour with this you need two charges of Blaze OR one charge of Blaze, one charge of Disturbance and one regular attack. Compare that to Fusillade, where you need two charges of Fusillade OR one charge of Fusillade, one charge of Disturbance and one regular attack. Sure, it's better to use Blaze and three regular attacks than Fusillade and four regular attacks, but that doesn't come up often.

The best niche for these is hitting wide formations of enemy troops, and they do perform that niche reasonably well. The problem is that that isn't a niche I find particularly valuable. I mostly use offensive gambits either when I need to take down a monster's armour or when I have one or two enemies who I need to rattle so they can't kill one of my units on enemy phase. And these two gambits just aren't great for those use cases. They get the job done, but having only one charge really hurts.

I know there have been times when I've had Blaze and really wished I had Disturbance instead, but also times when I've had Disturbnace but really wished I had Blaze instead, which leads me to think I should be giving them the same mark. 5/10 for both Blaze and Poison Tactics. While I do generally prefer both hit over might and poison over fire, I don't think there's enough difference between these two to separate them by a full mark.

And then there's Absorption. Oh boy. Throughout this series so far, I've been consistent in highly valuing hit, so you can probably guess where i'm going with this. 30 hit is bad. It's the lowest hit out of any gambit in the game, and there are only three other gambits that even get as low as 40 hit, and they're all pretty bad. Granted, it is possible to mitigate the low hit with high charm, gambit boosts, hit +20, etc. but I'd much rather use a gambit where I don't necessarily have to use all of those things. Especially since everything else about this gambit says "needs to be able to hit reliably". If you want to get the most out of its area effect, you need to wade neck-deep into the middle of the enemy. Which would be fine if you could then reliably hit and rattle them all, but you can't. The healing ability would also be more useful if you could rely on it. Not great, mind, but more useful. The ideal use case is when you're at low health, use it, and go back up to full health. Except that you can't rely on it, which means that you have to plan on also having a healer available anyway. Nothing about the way this gambit is built makes sense to me and every time I've tried to use it, it's felt clunky, awkward, unreliable, and generally no fun to use. 2/10 for Absorption.

1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I'm interested in this thread so I'm checking often enough that it doesn't matter to me! Not sure how others may feel.

I agree with this.

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