Did anyone else have trouble with the final boss in FE7?

[NotStupidTurkey]

A while ago I finished my first run-through of Eliwood’s mode and one part that I had significant trouble with was the dragon you faced after defeating Nergal. The reasons behind it were that Lyn did little damage and got one shot,  Eliwood did some damage but got doubled, and my other units did little to no damage with the weapons they had.

This meant that pretty much only Hector and Athos could do sufficient damage to the dragon without getting killed easily, but I did have to sacrifice a few units so that Hector wouldn’t get killed.

Now I’m not sure entirely why but I think the reason is because I lacked supports (I only unlocked 2% of the overall supports during the run), most likely because I wasn’t too sure how supports functioned in the game and how to initiate them.

So I’m wondering what other people’s experience fighting the final boss were like and whether they had the same issues that I had, was this common among other people’s run-throughs or was this just me being a scrub at the game?

Thanks!

(P.S. I am still quite new to the series having only completed 3 games so providing some tips I could use in later run throughs would be awesome)

Edited June 22, 2021 by NotStupidTurkey

[Benice]

I can't remember how my first playthrough went, but on my recent-ish ironman of HHM, I had a lot of issues getting rid of the final boss. I think it ended me several times, even. The boss is a teensy bit stronger on HHM, but it's pretty much identical.

As for why you may have had issues...With the right tools at your disposal, (Luna+Filla's Might+Athos) the final boss is rather easy, but aside from that or Canas with Luna, the boss is rather tough. A strong Hector, Eligood, or even Lyn (if her HP is high enough) can probably chip a fair bit. A really strong sword unit with a Wyrmslayer could potentially do a little as well, and Aureola also does quite well. Athos can survive a round with the Dragon, so if you've got a physic staff, a healer you wouldn't mind sacrificing or a healer who can also survive, just chipping away with Aureola works.

[Shadow Mir]

The thing is, the final boss negates defense, meaning you're taking a 37 damage shot guaranteed (by the way, this isn't the first time dragon attacks negated defense). For this reason, I find it best to *NOT* attack on the player turn (or at least, only do so if you have Physic staves, which can heal from a distance) and do damage only through countering with units that can survive a hit, and using the player phases to heal either with elixirs or pulling back to safety and having healers use staves - the dragon won't move. Anyway, Luna, as stated earlier, can do great damage due to negating resistance, but aside from that, Hector with Armads, as well as Forblaze and Aureola work (Eliwood and Lyn aren't as effective, as the former gets weighed down a lot by Durandal, and Lyn's Sol Katti is too weak to do much damage).

Edited June 22, 2021 by Shadow Mir

[Sooks]

Ah, reminds me of my first run of fe7, my first time ever playing an fe game, where I sucked a lot. I only had 4 units who could damage the fire dragon, Athos, Eliwood, Hector and Marcus, so I set up a chain with everyone else + Marcus to move around Eliwood, Hector and Athos so I could leave them in range of the fire dragon with enough health to live. I would have Marcus grab whoever attacked and bring them back, trade them away, have the unit (Vaida?) who got them drop them, heal them (with Priscilla I think, I distinctly remember using her because I thought clerics were the bees knees and then I got one on a horse and I was blown away) up to enough so they could take another hit, and then leave them in range of the fire dragon where they could counter again, and repeat the cycle. Ah, memories.

Which is to say that yes, I had a lot of trouble. The best strategy (in my opinion, at least) is to save a Luna tome and trade it to Athos in the final chapter, and then have him wreak havoc. But if you didn’t know to do that, like probably every blind fe7 player, you have to get creative.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Sooks

[Jotari]

The boss doesn't move and does set damage to all characters, there's really absolutely no reason you should die fighting it. Just use rescue drop strategies to attack and bring units to safety. And like Mir said, if the numbers aren't working out for player phasing, just enemy phase it. It's really not a complicated boss. Once you understand that it's not moving and has zero tricks up its sleeve aside from a single attack that deals rather high set damage, there's absolutely no excuse but a brain fart for actually losing anyone. Just only attack when you're sure you'll survive, and only end your turn with someone in it's range who you're sure will survive. Not even the bolting mages complicate things from what I remember, as they're stuck too far away the dragon to even hit anything. If you still have Nils alive, use his rings to boost your damage or crit.

Edited June 22, 2021 by Jotari

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

Lack-of-supports wasn't the problem, that much is sure. It's basically a check - do I have someone, who can take a hit from the Fire Dragon, and hurt him in return? Athos is basically a given on this front, and he can be especially useful with the Luna tome. But units like Hector, Eliwood, Marcus, and Hawkeye can also put in work here. With the right rings, Nils is also a big help, as mentioned. When they get weak, bring them out of range, heal them, and send someone else in in the interim.

[Parrhesia]

I'll be honest... over the past decade, I've literally only ever used the Athos Luna cheese strat lol

[BrightBow]

It doubled Eliwood. So that was fun.
But hey, what was I thinking using the Dragonslayer sword against a dragon...

Quite frankly, the weight of the legendary weapons seems like a deliberate "fuck you", considering the game never teaches you how double attacking works and how weight factors into it. And it's not like they were this heavy in FE6.

Edited June 24, 2021 by BrightBow

[𝐅𝐞𝐧𝐫𝐢𝐞𝐥]

On 6/22/2021 at 4:55 PM, NotStupidTurkey said:

So I’m wondering what other people’s experience fighting the final boss were like and whether they had the same issues that I had, was this common among other people’s run-throughs or was this just me being a scrub at the game?

Thanks!

(P.S. I am still quite new to the series having only completed 3 games so providing some tips I could use in later run throughs would be awesome)

giving stats-booster items to each lord in their main routes always help. that way they'll have better survival chances in the long run, and will deal noticeable damage.

in case of FE7, it partially depends on the difficulty. basicly, both Lyndis and Eliwood can eventually become decent units if you're playing their routes one after the other, because if i remember well Lyn's stats should transfer to Eliwood's route. plus, the difficulty scaling of those routes is quite alright, if you don't consider gaiden/extra chapters.

Hector's route is probably the hardest of the three, so unless you let the other lords get carried around and get some "safe" exp by feeding them last-hit kills, they're not going to be great units by the time you reach the end game. you'll be using pre-promotes for the most, and by the time you'll reach mid-game, you'll probably notice that having weak units hanging around will do more harm than anything else.

also, Hector is kind of a Jeigan unit disguised as lord, but that's another story. unlike Lyn/Eliwood, he can stand on his own from the get-go, and will not need any babysitting.

Edited June 25, 2021 by 𝙵ᴇɴʀᴇɪʀ

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, 𝙵ᴇɴʀᴇɪʀ said:

also, Hector is kind of a Jeigan unit disguised as lord, but that's another story. unlike Lyn/Eliwood, he can stand on his own from the get-go, and will not need any babysitting.

Well what do you mean by Jeigan unit? Because Hector doesn't drop off at any point imo. He remains consistently great from beginning to end.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

Well what do you mean by Jeigan unit? Because Hector doesn't drop off at any point imo. He remains consistently great from beginning to end.

5-move? Well, that's only a problem until he promotes!

...What do you mean, "he doesn't promote until 80% of the way through the game"?

...What do you mean, "his promotion doesn't increase his movement at all"?

I like Hector, he's definitely the best among the three Lords, but he's a flawed unit nonetheless.

[Jotari]

1 minute ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

5-move? Well, that's only a problem until he promotes!

...What do you mean, "he doesn't promote until 80% of the way through the game"?

...What do you mean, "his promotion doesn't increase his movement at all"?

I like Hector, he's definitely the best among the three Lords, but he's a flawed unit nonetheless.

His move is a problem before and after he promotes, as he doesn't get any move upon promotion. Though 5 move is infantry standard so it's not like it's holding him back. And either way he's one of the best candidates you'll find for Boots in the series. And sure his promotion is pretty late if you're playing Hector mode, but it's not like that actually stalls his contribution much. He's still around and capable of tanking and killing things while waiting for promotion. Blazing Blade isn't a game with very high enemy quality.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

13 minutes ago, Jotari said:

His move is a problem before and after he promotes, as he doesn't get any move upon promotion. Though 5 move is infantry standard so it's not like it's holding him back. And either way he's one of the best candidates you'll find for Boots in the series. And sure his promotion is pretty late if you're playing Hector mode, but it's not like that actually stalls his contribution much. He's still around and capable of tanking and killing things while waiting for promotion. Blazing Blade isn't a game with very high enemy quality.

Fair enough, but relatively-speaking, most units can expect to gain a point of move upon promotion. 5 move is more tolerable when you're surrounded by other 5-move infantry (and 7-move mounts), versus when you're surrounded by 6-move infantry (and 8-move mounts). As for the Boots, let's keep in mind that they come quite late (Battle Before Dawn) - incidentally, shortly before his (Hector's Story) promotion. But sure, he is a good candidate for them. As for the bolded part: "Nooo you can't just keep using a level 20 unpromoted unit, he's stealing EXP from everyone else you could be using nooo!". Ironically, the "EXP thief" factor might be the most "Jeigan" thing about Hector - he's a growth unit whose bases aren't especially good.

So bottom-line, Hector can do pretty good stuff - but I'm not sure that he's among the "greats" of FE7 (i.e. the likes of Marcus, an invested Cavalier, Hawkeye, or Pent). His stats should be good (so long as he's not screwed on growths), and the Hand Axe and Wolf Beil are both great, but his movement is an issue that isn't fixed by a late promotion. Getting back to the point of the topic, though, I will grant that he can contribute against the Fire Dragon.

[𝐅𝐞𝐧𝐫𝐢𝐞𝐥]

11 hours ago, Jotari said:

Well what do you mean by Jeigan unit? Because Hector doesn't drop off at any point imo. He remains consistently great from beginning to end.

maybe i should have said "hybrid Jeigan unit from early to mid-game" to avoid confusion, but what i wrote was mostly related to his performance in combat anyway. i thought it was pretty obvious.

11 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I like Hector, he's definitely the best among the three Lords, but he's a flawed unit nonetheless.

Hector can do pretty good stuff - but I'm not sure that he's among the "greats" of FE7 (i.e. the likes of Marcus, an invested Cavalier, Hawkeye, or Pent). His stats should be good (so long as he's not screwed on growths), and the Hand Axe and Wolf Beil are both great, but his movement is an issue that isn't fixed by a late promotion. Getting back to the point of the topic, though, I will grant that he can contribute against the Fire Dragon.

i partially agree: he does have flaws such as the lack of movement( that can eventually be fixed by using the boots though ) and the fact that he struggles against mages like any other armored unit, however he doesn't have many issues when it comes to tanking and dealing damage against other physical classes.

not to mention that FE7 has overall better accuracy rates than FE6, so axes are not that penalized by the weapon triangle like they were in the previous game.

also, the Fire Dragon is kind of a joke when you have maxed out lords with good stats( if you gave them all the required boosters ). you could probably even solo it with Hector just by stacking Elixirs, or by using ranged healing staffs with Pent/Athos.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

3 hours ago, 𝙵ᴇɴʀᴇɪʀ said:

maybe i should have said "hybrid Jeigan unit from early to mid-game" to avoid confusion, but what i wrote was mostly related to his performance in combat anyway. i thought it was pretty obvious.

I don't think this even holds true, though. Hector's bases include 19 HP, 4 Skill, and 5 Speed. Those are pretty middling, even in the earlygame. His only "good" base stats are his Strength (7) and Defense (8). And even in those areas, he's inferior to the likes of Oswin and Marcus. Hector's a growth unit with okay-ish bases; I don't see anything Jeigan-like abput him.

3 hours ago, 𝙵ᴇɴʀᴇɪʀ said:

also, the Fire Dragon is kind of a joke when you have maxed out lords with good stats( if you gave them all the required boosters ). you could probably even solo it with Hector just by stacking Elixirs, or by using ranged healing staffs with Pent/Athos.

That's true of almost any character, though. The Lords (specifically Eliwood and Lyn) take a ton of work to "max out", so it's hardly worth it. Plenty of other units can do almost as well against the Dragon, while significantly outperforming these two in the mid-to-lategame.

Edited June 26, 2021 by Shanty Pete's 1st Mate
Typo.

[Dark Holy Elf]

 

11 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I don't think this even holds true, though. Hector's bases include 19 HP, 4 Skill, and 5 Speed. Those are pretty middling, even in the earlygame. His only "good" base stats are his Strength (7) and Defense (8). And even in those areas, he's inferior to the likes of Oswin and Marcus. Hector's a growth unit with okay-ish bases; I don't see anything Jeigan-like abput him.

I think he's odd in that he's a unit who peaks in the early-midgame once he gets rolling (to close the gap with the likes of Oswin and Marcus on stats) but definitely falls off later as other units start promoting (not to mention def gets less valuable as a survival stat, for a couple reasons). 5 move sucks lategame, and I don't think he's a great Boots candidate when Ninian/Nils exist, albeit they do miss out on 2 out of 6-7 post-boots maps (excluding Battle Preparations obviously). So... while "jeigan" is an odd term it's certainly an unusual progression and has some vague resemblances to a jeigan, particularly if you feed him most of the exp in Chapter 11 Hector.

On the primary topic, I think the Fire Dragon can be reasonably tough before you've figured out the "right" way to fight bosses in that situation. I'm old enough that I do remember seeing people have trouble with him! But yeah, if you know what you're doing you can just give Athos Luna and potentially win in 1-2 turns depending on your luck with Luna crits and your number of non-Athos healers, and that's even assuming none of your lords are up to the task of helping.  And if they are you can see some funny stuff, like fully supported Lyn with Filia's Might ORKOing him with a doublecrit.