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I'm on Chapter 1 (not prologue) and I'm using my save transfer from my second playthrough of Path of Radiance. 
 

Actually off topic, is that even useful? I have no POR characters in my army yet, how much stronger does it actually make them? 

Okay circle back. Right now I have Micaiah, Nolan, Edward and Leonardo. I want to use Micaiah obviously even if she isn't worth training but the others I will drop if they lack anything useful. 

I'm playing on Normal mode if it helps. 

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2 hours ago, sinfonic18 said:

 

Actually off topic, is that even useful? I have no POR characters in my army yet, how much stronger does it actually make them? 

Depends. For it to do anything the unit needs to have reached level 20 and capped some stats then they get a +2 at base in the formerly capped stat (I think its higher for HP, but I am too lazy to check). Sometimes that can let units cross some critical stat thresholds to make them much better, but even if not its a nice boon, and gets them closer to capping a stat (which is important for abusing Bonus Exp in this game). I guess the A supports in PoR become +5 bond supports in RD, but those are incredibly minor and only affects crit and crit avoid...

 

2 hours ago, sinfonic18 said:


Okay circle back. Right now I have Micaiah, Nolan, Edward and Leonardo. I want to use Micaiah obviously even if she isn't worth training but the others I will drop if they lack anything useful.

Nolan is generally seen as one of the better Dawn Brigade units. Edward is alright, some people try investing in him, but he is more of a secondary mention from some of the bigger names that will join.

 

2 hours ago, sinfonic18 said:


I'm playing on Normal mode if it helps. 

Figured I would warn ou in case you don't already know, but the difficulties not translated consistently between PoR and RD, so RD's Normal will be more like PoR's Hard...

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2 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Depends. For it to do anything the unit needs to have reached level 20 and capped some stats then they get a +2 at base in the formerly capped stat (I think its higher for HP, but I am too lazy to check). Sometimes that can let units cross some critical stat thresholds to make them much better, but even if not its a nice boon, and gets them closer to capping a stat (which is important for abusing Bonus Exp in this game). I guess the A supports in PoR become +5 bond supports in RD, but those are incredibly minor and only affects crit and crit avoid...

It also increases weapon ranks, even if you don't cap them.

On topic, you're going to get exposure to most units in the game due to the way this entry is set up. It has a huge cast but it's divided among multiple armies. So with a few exceptions you will be forced, or at least encouraged, to field and use every unit in the game at some point. So it should be easy enough for you to figure out yourself which units are decent and which are trash. Though I'll warn not to invest too much in Tormod and his gang, they're powerhouses in Part 1, but after its finished they stumble into a plot hole and completely disappear until near the end of the game (retaining the same levels).

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First off, I'll start by saying this, in case you don't know: Radiant Dawn is rather wonky when it comes to character availability. The game's structure is such that you switch between multiple groups quite a bit. Anyway, I would generally avoid overusing anyone that looks like they're blatantly overpowered for that point in the game, as they probably won't be around long. Especially Tormod and friends, who are usable in part 1... but then disappear for nearly the whole game once part 1 is over (and when they're usable again, they're still the same levels they were at once part 1 concluded; considering that they come back really really late, this is bad). The sole exception is

Spoiler

1-9 and the Black Knight

 because the only other unit you have is Micaiah.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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19 hours ago, sinfonic18 said:

Okay circle back. Right now I have Micaiah, Nolan, Edward and Leonardo. I want to use Micaiah obviously even if she isn't worth training but the others I will drop if they lack anything useful. 

Nolan is generally good to invest in - he's weirdly fast for an Axe fighter, his Earth affinity can boost his (and an ally's avoid), and he's pretty solid in physical bulk. He also gets a personal weapon later on in the game, with high accuracy and a defense boosting effect.

Edward is variable in how he turns out. With really good level-ups (i.e. consistent HP, Strength, and Speed), he can be a force to be reckoned with. He also gets a personal weapon, but his isn't quite as good. And if you're only planning on one swordmaster, another shows up to overshadow him.

Leonardo... isn't very good. He can do chip damage, but not a ton. He does well in Skill and Resistance, but if he's not doubling, he's not doing much damage. That said, he gets two tools to help on this front later on - a personal bow that boosts speed, and a Brave Bow that nobody else in his army can use. He's the iffiest of the three, but definitely usable in the long term on Normal difficulty.

14 hours ago, Jotari said:

Though I'll warn not to invest too much in Tormod and his gang, they're powerhouses in Part 1, but after its finished they stumble into a plot hole and completely disappear until near the end of the game (retaining the same levels).

Tormod and friends do get a couple chapters where they're effectively force-deployed. I would recommend using them there - the faster you finish the chapter, the more bonus EXP you get. But after that, take their skill and items off. And definitely don't feed them Bonus EXP in Part I.

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22 hours ago, sinfonic18 said:

Okay circle back. Right now I have Micaiah, Nolan, Edward and Leonardo. I want to use Micaiah obviously even if she isn't worth training but the others I will drop if they lack anything useful. 

Nolan is great. Leonardo, not so much, but he has his uses. Edward has it really bad; not only is he a fragile melee unit, but another unit in his class comes along later to overshadow him.

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On 6/28/2021 at 3:03 AM, Eltosian Kadath said:

Depends. For it to do anything the unit needs to have reached level 20 and capped some stats then they get a +2 at base in the formerly capped stat (I think its higher for HP, but I am too lazy to check). Sometimes that can let units cross some critical stat thresholds to make them much better, but even if not its a nice boon, and gets them closer to capping a stat (which is important for abusing Bonus Exp in this game). I guess the A supports in PoR become +5 bond supports in RD, but those are incredibly minor and only affects crit and crit avoid...

 

Nolan is generally seen as one of the better Dawn Brigade units. Edward is alright, some people try investing in him, but he is more of a secondary mention from some of the bigger names that will join.

 

Figured I would warn ou in case you don't already know, but the difficulties not translated consistently between PoR and RD, so RD's Normal will be more like PoR's Hard...

On 6/28/2021 at 5:19 AM, Jotari said:

It also increases weapon ranks, even if you don't cap them.

On topic, you're going to get exposure to most units in the game due to the way this entry is set up. It has a huge cast but it's divided among multiple armies. So with a few exceptions you will be forced, or at least encouraged, to field and use every unit in the game at some point. So it should be easy enough for you to figure out yourself which units are decent and which are trash. Though I'll warn not to invest too much in Tormod and his gang, they're powerhouses in Part 1, but after its finished they stumble into a plot hole and completely disappear until near the end of the game (retaining the same levels).

Well, I think only Ike is the one who reached level 20 in both my playthroughs of POR so I guess it worthless to transfer data but I guess it don't hurt. 

I just beat Chapter 6 and now I have Jill, Tauroneo and Zihark. I really liked jill in POR, how does she fair here? My Nolan is good but he hasn't gotten a single speed level from 9 to 16.

And yeah, I've had a ton of trouble with the game right now especially since none of my units can double. Micaiah in fact gets one shotted by archers. 

Hmm. Idk if I like that honestly, that really messes with my team building. BUT there is no benching of units in that case so everyone gets some use, which is also nice I suppose.

On 6/28/2021 at 9:26 AM, Etrurian emperor said:

Units named Haar are the best to use. 

Oh wow. I know he's a wyvern and that kind makes me wish I would've trained him in POR.

 

On 6/28/2021 at 4:26 PM, Shadow Mir said:

First off, I'll start by saying this, in case you don't know: Radiant Dawn is rather wonky when it comes to character availability. The game's structure is such that you switch between multiple groups quite a bit. Anyway, I would generally avoid overusing anyone that looks like they're blatantly overpowered for that point in the game, as they probably won't be around long. Especially Tormod and friends, who are usable in part 1... but then disappear for nearly the whole game once part 1 is over (and when they're usable again, they're still the same levels they were at once part 1 concluded; considering that they come back really really late, this is bad). The sole exception is

  Reveal hidden contents

1-9 and the Black Knight

 because the only other unit you have is Micaiah.

Okay if that's the case then what is the best possible candidates for stat boosters? I've been holding off for this exact reason because I have a dracoshield, energy drop and a seraph robe that I don't want to waste on anyone yet. 
 

On 6/28/2021 at 8:21 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Nolan is generally good to invest in - he's weirdly fast for an Axe fighter, his Earth affinity can boost his (and an ally's avoid), and he's pretty solid in physical bulk. He also gets a personal weapon later on in the game, with high accuracy and a defense boosting effect.

Edward is variable in how he turns out. With really good level-ups (i.e. consistent HP, Strength, and Speed), he can be a force to be reckoned with. He also gets a personal weapon, but his isn't quite as good. And if you're only planning on one swordmaster, another shows up to overshadow him.

Leonardo... isn't very good. He can do chip damage, but not a ton. He does well in Skill and Resistance, but if he's not doubling, he's not doing much damage. That said, he gets two tools to help on this front later on - a personal bow that boosts speed, and a Brave Bow that nobody else in his army can use. He's the iffiest of the three, but definitely usable in the long term on Normal difficulty.

Tormod and friends do get a couple chapters where they're effectively force-deployed. I would recommend using them there - the faster you finish the chapter, the more bonus EXP you get. But after that, take their skill and items off. And definitely don't feed them Bonus EXP in Part I.

On 6/28/2021 at 10:15 PM, Shadow Mir said:

Nolan is great. Leonardo, not so much, but he has his uses. Edward has it really bad; not only is he a fragile melee unit, but another unit in his class comes along later to overshadow him.

My Nolan is slow as molasses, he hasn't gained one point of speed in 7 levels and his base is 10. But on that fact nobody in my army can double besides Edward sometimes (Volug can but he's a laguz unit) so it's not really that much of a negative for him. 

Is that swordmaster Zihark? If so I got him but he's a prepromote. 

My leonardo hasn't gained 1 level since the beginning of the game, I've already found out how useless he was from the start and I don't even feel like babying him. Perhaps with the stuff you mentioned he might be worth it but I just don't feel like it because if I want an archer I'd rather have a mounted one. 

I see. On that note actually, who is worth giving BEXP to? I don't have much because I'm very slow finishing maps in FE, but I can still use the bit I have. What I've been doing right now is just leveling a unit with it that's above 70 EXP, so I can give them a level.

Also does promotion work like it did in POR or do I have to use the Master seal I got?

 

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1 minute ago, sinfonic18 said:

I really liked jill in POR, how does she fair here?

Of the Dawn Brigade crew she is the one people most suggest you train, as Wyvern Riders are really good in this game. They removed their arrow weakness and replaced it with a thunder magic weakness, which are rarely seen and low power tomes anyway, and their stat spread tend to be good on top of all the benefits flying gives.

 

31 minutes ago, sinfonic18 said:

My Nolan is good but he hasn't gotten a single speed level from 9 to 16.

That is really unlucky, as he has a 60% speed growth...

 

34 minutes ago, sinfonic18 said:

Okay if that's the case then what is the best possible candidates for stat boosters? I've been holding off for this exact reason because I have a dracoshield, energy drop and a seraph robe that I don't want to waste on anyone yet. 
 

Really the answer is whomever you like enough to want to keep using.

 

19 minutes ago, sinfonic18 said:


Is that swordmaster Zihark? If so I got him but he's a prepromote. 

That is the other swordsman, but I will note that there is another promotion tier in this game, so its more like Edward is in a trainee class than Zihark is a prepromote...

 

19 minutes ago, sinfonic18 said:

 


I see. On that note actually, who is worth giving BEXP to? I don't have much because I'm very slow finishing maps in FE, but I can still use the bit I have. What I've been doing right now is just leveling a unit with it that's above 70 EXP, so I can give them a level.

 

BEXP was changed so that BEXP level-ups always give you exactly 3 stat ups (unless they have less than 3 stats left uncapped...). This leads people to save it until the stage in the game where your units cap a few stats, as they then start getting stats they rarely would otherwise which are often beneficial.

 

27 minutes ago, sinfonic18 said:


Also does promotion work like it did in POR or do I have to use the Master seal I got?

It does, but as I noted before there is another tier, and Master Crowns are used to move from tier 2 to tier 3 before reaching level 20+ again.

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9 hours ago, sinfonic18 said:

Okay if that's the case then what is the best possible candidates for stat boosters? I've been holding off for this exact reason because I have a dracoshield, energy drop and a seraph robe that I don't want to waste on anyone yet. 

Jill is likely the best candidate. No statbooster can imitate the flying mobility she brings. And while her bases aren't the best, her growths are all pretty good.

That said, you could do worse than investing in either Zihark or Edward. Volug, notably, gets 3 effective points of attack from the Energy Drop, due to Wildheart shifts. Giving Micaiah the robe, for survivability, isn't bad either.

9 hours ago, sinfonic18 said:

My Nolan is good but he hasn't gotten a single speed level from 9 to 16.

Ouch. At this point, I'd probably bench him. I've tried to make a speed-screwed Nolan work before, and it is not a fun time.

8 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

BEXP was changed so that BEXP level-ups always give you exactly 3 stat ups (unless they have less than 3 stats left uncapped...). This leads people to save it until the stage in the game where your units cap a few stats, as they then start getting stats they rarely would otherwise which are often beneficial.

Yep, BEXP is more effective for levels on a unit who has started capping. That said, one strategy is to use BEXP to raise an uncapped unit up to 99. Then they'll gain the level in the next map, which will likely be better than if they got the level just through BEXP (assuming a growth total >3.00). If you're pedantic, you can even reset the game on a bad level-up, since you just started the map.

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9 hours ago, sinfonic18 said:

Okay if that's the case then what is the best possible candidates for stat boosters? I've been holding off for this exact reason because I have a dracoshield, energy drop and a seraph robe that I don't want to waste on anyone yet. 

I'd say giving Micaiah the Seraph Robe isn't a bad idea, especially given that again, you're forced to use her alone with only one other unit for backup at one point in part 1.

10 hours ago, sinfonic18 said:

My leonardo hasn't gained 1 level since the beginning of the game, I've already found out how useless he was from the start and I don't even feel like babying him. Perhaps with the stuff you mentioned he might be worth it but I just don't feel like it because if I want an archer I'd rather have a mounted one. 

Unfortunately, well... let's just say you're going to be disappointed if you think mounted units are going to be as dominant as they were in Path of Radiance.

10 hours ago, sinfonic18 said:

My Nolan is slow as molasses, he hasn't gained one point of speed in 7 levels and his base is 10.

OOF. That is really unlucky (but not as much as my woes with raising Jill).

10 hours ago, sinfonic18 said:

I really liked jill in POR, how does she fair here?

Her start is lousy due to her bases, to say the least. Maybe she can turn out better for you than she ever did for me...

10 hours ago, sinfonic18 said:

Also does promotion work like it did in POR or do I have to use the Master seal I got?

It works just like in Path of Radiance, though there is another tier in this game. 

10 hours ago, sinfonic18 said:

I see. On that note actually, who is worth giving BEXP to? I don't have much because I'm very slow finishing maps in FE, but I can still use the bit I have. What I've been doing right now is just leveling a unit with it that's above 70 EXP, so I can give them a level.

As was noted earlier, BEXP was changed such that level ups with it give three stats guaranteed. This leads to most people saving it until unit start capping stats.

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15 hours ago, sinfonic18 said:

Okay if that's the case then what is the best possible candidates for stat boosters? I've been holding off for this exact reason because I have a dracoshield, energy drop and a seraph robe that I don't want to waste on anyone yet.

I'd say wait a few chapters until you have more of the Part 1 units and have relegated certain underperforming units to the bench, and then use it on whomever needs it most in your army right now. There's not much use in hoarding stat boosters with the Dawn Brigade, as their chapters are generally the hardest in the game, so make your present difficult life easier now rather than your future less difficult life.

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On 6/30/2021 at 1:42 AM, sinfonic18 said:

I just beat Chapter 6 and now I have Jill, Tauroneo and Zihark.

I'll warn you right now, don't use Tauroneo too much; he's extremely overleveled at this point, and he leaves for quite a while after chapter 6 is over. Or better yet, unequip him and have him function as a wall.

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4 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I'll warn you right now, don't use Tauroneo too much; he's extremely overleveled at this point, and he leaves for quite a while after chapter 6 is over. Or better yet, unequip him and have him function as a wall.

Or just use Tauroneo anyway. There is no harm in using what a unit is good for. you want to kill the boss? Tauroneo is great. 
All chapters are completable even if you only use Tauroneo. There is no harm in using a good unit. 


Bottom line, don't worry about our opinions. Use who you like. Use them when you want to. Don't feel discouraged about using a unit that you click with because the internet says so.  =]

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19 minutes ago, Vicious Sal said:

 

Or just use Tauroneo anyway. There is no harm in using what a unit is good for. you want to kill the boss? Tauroneo is great. 
All chapters are completable even if you only use Tauroneo. There is no harm in using a good unit. 


Bottom line, don't worry about our opinions. Use who you like. Use them when you want to. Don't feel discouraged about using a unit that you click with because the internet says so.  =]

I'd rather our friend here NOT get into an unwinnable situation later due to underusing the units he needed to focus on to have a chance when the powerful units inevitably leave, thank you very much.

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4 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

I'd rather our friend here NOT get into an unwinnable situation later due to underusing the units he needed to focus on to have a chance when the powerful units inevitably leave, thank you very much.

So when exactly would you ever get into an unwinnable situation?

1-7, OP units available, 

1-8? Same thing

1-9? Same thing

1-E? Same thing.

3-6? Same thing.


Using Tauroneo does not ever, in a single instance result in a soft lock for a player. There is no NEED to focus on specific units. You can win this game with any unit you so chose. If one of those is tauroneo, just as an example. That is perfectly doable.

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3 minutes ago, Vicious Sal said:

So when exactly would you ever get into an unwinnable situation?

1-7, OP units available, 

1-8? Same thing

1-9? Same thing

1-E? Same thing.

3-6? Same thing.


Using Tauroneo does not ever, in a single instance result in a soft lock for a player. There is no NEED to focus on specific units. You can win this game with any unit you so chose. If one of those is tauroneo, just as an example. That is perfectly doable.

The bolded one, because Sothe starts losing steam around that point (and Volug, aside from having lost steam, is now subject to the gauge like other laguz are), and the overpowered unit at that point requires surviving until turn 6, which probably won't happen if you foolishly neglected the Daeins. Using overpowered units is fine and all, but in this game, using them too much is liable to bite you in the ass. Hard.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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Just now, Shadow Mir said:

The bolded one, because Sothe starts losing steam around that point (and Volug, aside from having lost steam, is now subject to the gauge like other laguz are), and the overpowered unit at that point requires surviving until turn 6, which probably won't happen if you foolishly neglected the Daeins.

There are multiple olivi grasses available pre 3-6. You might have the shine barrier from 1-5. Sothe's bases still hold up enough to not get ORKO'd so he can just choke a point if needed. He can do more if possible. 
Volug is in the same boat even when halfshifted.  
 

Even if you have no olivi grass and no shine barrier, even if you have no additional resources, the chapter is still not a soft lock. It's entirely possible to turtle your way to turn 6 if needed. using Tauroneo is not detrimental to your game if you want to use him. We're not focused on LTC or speedrunning or something where mismanagement of resources is a thing. This is just a playthrough. And in aplaythrough there is no right or wrong. Is using some units more of a challenge, yes. Is using some units going to make other chapters more challenging, yes. Is using specific units ever going to softlock you? No.*

*Unless it's Ike who you're ignoring. 0 levels Ike and no stat boosters and BEXp in 4-E-2 loses even on cover tiles iirc.  Though even that might not be the case.

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1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

I'd rather our friend here NOT get into an unwinnable situation later due to underusing the units he needed to focus on to have a chance when the powerful units inevitably leave, thank you very much.

I'm pretty sure people have completed this game on 0% growths. There is no unwinnable situation.

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1 hour ago, Vicious Sal said:

There are multiple olivi grasses available pre 3-6. You might have the shine barrier from 1-5. Sothe's bases still hold up enough to not get ORKO'd so he can just choke a point if needed. He can do more if possible. 
Volug is in the same boat even when halfshifted.  
 

Even if you have no olivi grass and no shine barrier, even if you have no additional resources, the chapter is still not a soft lock. It's entirely possible to turtle your way to turn 6 if needed. using Tauroneo is not detrimental to your game if you want to use him. We're not focused on LTC or speedrunning or something where mismanagement of resources is a thing. This is just a playthrough. And in aplaythrough there is no right or wrong. Is using some units more of a challenge, yes. Is using some units going to make other chapters more challenging, yes. Is using specific units ever going to softlock you? No.*

*Unless it's Ike who you're ignoring. 0 levels Ike and no stat boosters and BEXp in 4-E-2 loses even on cover tiles iirc.  Though even that might not be the case.

Ah, olivi grass, AKA a ripoff that's one of the worst things I can spend my money on. I forgot that existed because to be blunt, most non-royal laguz are useless. Also, the Shine Barrier strategy is dependent on having stolen it, which might not have happened because that chapter is timed or Wystan suicided on someone else before it could be stolen (I'm assuming the OP doesn't have it because he didn't mention stealing it, and even if he did, I'd consider it better used in 1-9). Turtling until turn 6 arrives means fuck all if you can't survive until then, last I checked. Either way, I made it a point to mention that this game is not like any other with regards to unit availability, which means if I'm recommending units, I can't just click off a few unit names and call it a day.

20 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I'm pretty sure people have completed this game on 0% growths. There is no unwinnable situation.

Okay, except the people who do those know the game inside out. Which I cannot say applies here, otherwise this thread wouldn't have been created in the first place.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Ah, olivi grass, AKA a ripoff that's one of the worst things I can spend my money on. I forgot that existed because to be blunt, most non-royal laguz are useless. Also, the Shine Barrier strategy is dependent on having stolen it, which might not have happened because that chapter is timed or Wystan suicided on someone else before it could be stolen (I'm assuming the OP doesn't have it because he didn't mention stealing it, and even if he did, I'd consider it better used in 1-9). Turtling until turn 6 arrives means fuck all if you can't survive until then, last I checked. Either way, I made it a point to mention that this game is not like any other with regards to unit availability, which means if I'm recommending units, I can't just click off a few unit names and call it a day.

"Volug sucks."

"Okay, here's this resource that can make him better."

"Well, that resource sucks."

To be sure, 3-6 is challenging. That said, it's perfectly doable on Normal mode, even without optimal investment, so long as you've kept most of your team alive up to that point. Sothe can still hold his own in that map (particularly with the Beast Killer), Volug has the option of still using Wildheart, and if you picked up Beastfoe, one lucky duck can be dealing effective damage against the enemy laguz. Even in the worst cases, the game still gives you a bunch of competent yellow units, to fend the beasts off until help arrives.

Also, "use unequipped Tauroneo as a wall" isn't good advice LOL. You want to finish maps quickly, for maximum bonus experience. I like to give Tauroneo a really weak weapon (like a Bronze Lance), which can set up the kill on some foes (others, he still kills outright). You don't want to invest in him, but if he can get kills that protect your other units (there's no walling against the 1-6 Pegasus Knights), or lead to a faster finish, that's a good thing.

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29 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

"Volug sucks."

"Okay, here's this resource that can make him better."

"Well, that resource sucks."

To be sure, 3-6 is challenging. That said, it's perfectly doable on Normal mode, even without optimal investment, so long as you've kept most of your team alive up to that point. Sothe can still hold his own in that map (particularly with the Beast Killer), Volug has the option of still using Wildheart, and if you picked up Beastfoe, one lucky duck can be dealing effective damage against the enemy laguz. Even in the worst cases, the game still gives you a bunch of competent yellow units, to fend the beasts off until help arrives.

Also, "use unequipped Tauroneo as a wall" isn't good advice LOL. You want to finish maps quickly, for maximum bonus experience. I like to give Tauroneo a really weak weapon (like a Bronze Lance), which can set up the kill on some foes (others, he still kills outright). You don't want to invest in him, but if he can get kills that protect your other units (there's no walling against the 1-6 Pegasus Knights), or lead to a faster finish, that's a good thing.

Because repeatedly killing enemies on enemy phase when you're supposed to play defensively and potentially allowing them to keep attacking and even kill you is a good thing, right? Oh wait, it ain't. Second, relying on incompetent partner units you have a bare minimum of control over is about the worst thing you can do, because they generally know only one thing; ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK. Not to mention Radiant Dawn NPCs are even dumber than usual for the series, so you're only setting yourself up for disappointment. Also, I think you're putting too much emphasis on BEXP - I don't think it's worth speed clearing when the extra BEXP generally is going to not be enough to justify it. See: chapter 1-7 for example. You get 3000 Bexp if all the prisoners survive and escape. That's more than worth stalling beyond the 10 turn limit, which gives you a measly extra 500 BEXP. RE: Tauroneo, I think the only things he DOESN'T one-round at that point are armors, and I don't think those would survive him with a bronze lance. RE: Volug, I find it hard to recommend laguz because of their many, many downsides. If I want units that are going to be ready to weather the enemy assault immediately, which I do, I sure won't pick a laguz unit that has to worry about turning into something that the enemy can just stare hard at and kill. If I am going to recommend a laguz unit that's not a royal, they have to be THAT DAMN GOOD in spite of their many flaws... and Volug, I'm sorry (not sorry) to say, fails to measure up.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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I'm gonna have to agree with the others that using Tauroneo a lot will never lead to a softlock situation. Even if you decide to solo both 1-6-1 and 1-6-2 with him (i.e. the only two maps where he's available untill 3-12) you still have every single map before and after that to feed exp to your other units. If you want to train a couple of the DB members you can still totally do it even if Tauroneo takes most of the kills in 1-6-1 and 1-6-2. My advice to OP would be to use him to his heart's content. Don't give him BEXP or stat boosters or anything, but if you find 1-6 too much of a pain to deal with the scrub squad, by all means have Tauroneo clear most of the maps himself.

3-6 is one of those maps that I think people treat as being much more difficult than it really is. It's definitely not unbeatable if you decided to abuse op units like Nailah and Tauroneo for all you could in part 1. In normal mode specially BEXP is extremely generous, so even if a unit you want to train falls behind you can always just BEXP them up to speed. Again, I'm fairly convinced that even if you actually solo'd 1-6 with Tauroneo your growth units like Nolan and Jill wouldn't fall so far behind in exp that they'd be unusable. But even IF they fell significantly far behind, you can fix at least 1 of them with BEXP no problem. If you have at least 1 really good unit (usually Jill for me), all you have to do in 3-6 is have unequipped units that can survive 1 round block the chokepoints while Jill (or whoever else you decide will be doing the killing, you have options) takes on the enemy units one at a time. Even if you have a weak team, all you have to do is hold out untill turn 6 where you get a certain spoiler unit that's literally invincible who can solo the rest of the map if needed. Obviously feeding the kills to your growth units is more fun, but the point that 3-6 is not a softlock regardless of what you do in part 1 still stands. Also, you can still use the spoiler unit as a movable light rune that never runs out by just unequipping him and having him block a chokepoint. Even if he kills 0 things in that map, he's still alleviating pressure by reducing the number of points you have to cover.

Also, Laguz units aren't bad as a whole. I think saying that all non-royals are bad is actually bad advice for a new player. A lot of them are pretty bad, no question. But as overall advice saying that you wouldn't recommend anything that isn't a royal doesn't seem great. For starters, I'd say it's definitely recommendable to use all of the laguz you're given in parts 1 and 2 in their respective parts. Volug is really good in part 1, there's no reason not to use him there. Muarim and Vika are good in the chapters you have them too, although they're bad investment targets because they don't return untill late part 4 where they're super underleveled. In part 2 there's no sense in going out of your way to avoid using Nealuchi, Lethe or Mordecai. None of them are great when they return in part 3/4, but they're good in 2-2, and trying to complete that map without feeding them a single kill would be a massive pain.

In part 3 Volug can definitely still be good but it depends on how much you used him in part 1. He doesn't earn jack for exp before 3-6 but he DOES earn WEXP, which is a huge deal for Laguz units in this game. For each rank that they gain their weapon gains +5 might, which for Volug (who doubles everything) effectively means +10 damage per round (+20 at SS rank). If you used him enough in part 1 he could be at S rank by 3-6 and SS rank by the end of 3-13, at which point he's basically a mini-Nailah (albeit still limited by a guage when Nailah has no such issue). You can transform significantly faster by using Olivi Grass and remain permanently transformed by using grass once every few turns (depends on how much enemy phase combat he sees). Training Volug isn't very beginner friendly, admitedly. It's hard to appreciate at first how much gaining weapon rank improves him and it's tricky to realize that a unit that used to gain 1 exp per kill now earns exp like a normal unit (remember to take off Wildheart though xd) but it's 100% doable and it's definitely worth the investment if you try it out.

Most of the Cats and Tigers you get in part 3 are pretty bad, sadly. Cats untransform way too fast and Tigers have kind of crappy stats (their speed in particular is pretty bad). Ranulf has really good stats but he has to use grass on practically every other turn to stay transformed, but he's definitely still a really good filler unit.

The Hawks are really good though, you should definitely try them out at least once. Their transformation gauge is decent. It's not as good as the Lion or Dragon gauge, but it lasts for a reasonable amount of time, so you won't have to use grass that often. Their stats are really good. They're both stupid dodgy and double everything at base. Imo Janaff is the better of the two because he does more damage (Ulki has more avoid in exchange but honestly his avoid is kind of overkill. Even if he didn't have his personal skill he would still dodge almost anything that isn't a crossbow), but they're both worth using. In my experience it's extremely hard to get them to SS Strike rank, but it's realistic to get them to S rank by the end of part 3 (which, again, means like +10 damage per round for them).

Skrimir is honestly pretty good, the Lion class is really strong. He's sadly just a couple of speed points short of being able to double everything at base, but you could save the 3-9 Speedwings for him if you really wanted to. Or just BEXP him up, Normal mode is stupid generous with BEXP. In the endgame he gets overshadowed by the other 2 Lions you get, but he's still good on his own right (and has 2 more maps of availability on them).

The Dragons are all valuable due to their Tide/Pool skills even if their combat is crap. You only get them in the endgame, but both Blood Tide and White Pool are invaluable when clearing the very final map. Night Tide ain't too great, sadly, but the other 3 Dragons are all really good.

So overall I'd say the non-royal Laguz units are actually pretty good. They have their limitations, but other than Kyza, Lyre and Kurth they're all usefull at least once or twice in the game, and a couple of them are actually good investment projects.

Anyway, I kind of ranted off so here's a TL;DR of my opinion:

1) Using Tauroneo for all you can at 1-6 doesn't softlock you at 3-6. There's plenty more of exp in the rest of the part 1 maps for you to distribute among your growth units. BEXP is also super generous in normal mode. Also, if you really wanted to (although I wouldn't recommend it for a 1st playthrough, mostly because it isn't very interesting) it's super easy to cheese 3-6 with a specific strategy.

2) Laguz units (non-royal) are worth using. Most of them are worth using at least once, some of them are worth using long term. Olivi Grass is very plentiful, and having to grass every 3-5 turns isn't enough of a drawback for them to not be worth using.

Edited by GonzoMD1993

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11 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Ah, olivi grass, AKA a ripoff that's one of the worst things I can spend my money on. I forgot that existed because to be blunt, most non-royal laguz are useless. Also, the Shine Barrier strategy is dependent on having stolen it, which might not have happened because that chapter is timed or Wystan suicided on someone else before it could be stolen (I'm assuming the OP doesn't have it because he didn't mention stealing it, and even if he did, I'd consider it better used in 1-9). Turtling until turn 6 arrives means fuck all if you can't survive until then, last I checked. Either way, I made it a point to mention that this game is not like any other with regards to unit availability, which means if I'm recommending units, I can't just click off a few unit names and call it a day.

Okay, except the people who do those know the game inside out. Which I cannot say applies here, otherwise this thread wouldn't have been created in the first place.

 

Did you even read my entire post? I specifically said that there are items that can be helpful, but that it is still entirely possible if you don't have those available. 
So the "you might not have stolen the shine barrier" argument was already addressed. Your olivi grass argument is literally "I don't want to spend money because i don;t like this" which is just a bad arument. Besides, you can still just randomly find one as a secret treasure so spending money is not even required 100% of the time. Better yet, as stated before, you don't even need it per se.
 

You're pretending that 3-6 is unwinnable if you only use Tauroneo/Nailah etc and don't give exp to the units available in 3-6, which is flat out wrong.
 

8 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Because repeatedly killing enemies on enemy phase when you're supposed to play defensively and potentially allowing them to keep attacking and even kill you is a good thing, right? Oh wait, it ain't. Second, relying on incompetent partner units you have a bare minimum of control over is about the worst thing you can do, because they generally know only one thing; ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK. Not to mention Radiant Dawn NPCs are even dumber than usual for the series, so you're only setting yourself up for disappointment. Also, I think you're putting too much emphasis on BEXP - I don't think it's worth speed clearing when the extra BEXP generally is going to not be enough to justify it. See: chapter 1-7 for example. You get 3000 Bexp if all the prisoners survive and escape. That's more than worth stalling beyond the 10 turn limit, which gives you a measly extra 500 BEXP. RE: Tauroneo, I think the only things he DOESN'T one-round at that point are armors, and I don't think those would survive him with a bronze lance. RE: Volug, I find it hard to recommend laguz because of their many, many downsides. If I want units that are going to be ready to weather the enemy assault immediately, which I do, I sure won't pick a laguz unit that has to worry about turning into something that the enemy can just stare hard at and kill. If I am going to recommend a laguz unit that's not a royal, they have to be THAT DAMN GOOD in spite of their many flaws... and Volug, I'm sorry (not sorry) to say, fails to measure up.

 

Sothe does not get doubled by tigers at base and does not get OHKO'd. He can choke a point and just heal every turn if needed. Zihark can do the same. Volug with wildheart can do the same and he does not oneround when halfshifted. Micaiah can use physic at base and laura can use mend. That's plenty of units to heal and choke points until the spiler unit arrives. 
You're delusional about the units in question.  You're saying Volug is bad, but volug at base still has better bases than most DB units at 20/5

Nolan: 

40 19.75 5 22.5 20 16 15.25 11


Aran: 

34.5 23.75 3.7 24 16.95 11.95 23.8 8.25


Jill: 

31 17.5 4.5 17.5 22.5 20 18.5 9.5


Volug: 

49 11 2 12 13 13 9 5


Which becomes 49/16/3/18/19/13/13/8 when halfshifted. That's only 2 less defense compared to Nolan, but 9 more HP.  It might be 11 points of defense less than Aran, but it is 15 points more of HP and 2 more speed, which actually matters for avoiding doubles. 
If fully transformed you're looking at 49/22/4/24/26/13/18/10 That blows every unit out of the water. And there is no 2 range in 3-6. And his gauge is decent enough that you can grass on PP and won't ever detransform. So he can choke a point just as well or better than any other unit.

You ill informed, biased and willing to actively deny resources to make units look worse tha they are. You don't fully read posts and are insisting that using units with more limited availability can softlock the game when in reality it can't. 

 

TL;DR: Any person can use any unit they want as they please and the game will not be incompletable. Using fiona and meg on hard mode will take a monumental amount of effort and babying, but it still does not mean you'd softlock yourself. Using only Nailah, Muarim and tauroneo won't softlock you either.

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9 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Also, I think you're putting too much emphasis on BEXP - I don't think it's worth speed clearing when the extra BEXP generally is going to not be enough to justify it. See: chapter 1-7 for example. You get 3000 Bexp if all the prisoners survive and escape. That's more than worth stalling beyond the 10 turn limit, which gives you a measly extra 500 BEXP.

Yes, but that's 1-7 (where Tauroneo is unavailable), not 1-6. There is no incentive to stall on 1-6. Also, your counterargument for me "overemphasizing BEXP" is to... emphasize BEXP?

9 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

RE: Volug, I find it hard to recommend laguz because of their many, many downsides. If I want units that are going to be ready to weather the enemy assault immediately, which I do, I sure won't pick a laguz unit that has to worry about turning into something that the enemy can just stare hard at and kill.

Then just halfshift Volug, it's not hard. A half-shifted Volug is roughly on-par with the enemy beasts in 3-6. Possibly better, if you're using his Earth support and got him to S Strike. Whether or not you "recommend Volug", he's one of your few guaranteed resources on 3-6, so you should make the most of him. I'm not saying "use Volug long-term and bring him to the tower", I'm saying "use him when he's your most mobile and highest-stat option".

9 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Because repeatedly killing enemies on enemy phase when you're supposed to play defensively and potentially allowing them to keep attacking and even kill you is a good thing, right? Oh wait, it ain't. Second, relying on incompetent partner units you have a bare minimum of control over is about the worst thing you can do, because they generally know only one thing; ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK.

Worst-case scenario - put Micaiah in the far southwest corner, with Sothe to her north and Volug to her east. Unequip Sothe if you have to. They should each survive two enemy attacks. Heal them as needed, until the Black Knight arrives. This shouldn't be necessary, but let's not pretend like it's a potential softlock on Normal mode.

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