91024893u2 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 So.... I've been thinking.... What are some favorite master classes of other people? I didn't know if Spoiler Barbarossa, Emperor, and High Lord counted as master classes, so I didn't add them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 FIRST ATTACK 3000 I say Gremory. Doubled uses for all magic? Yes please. Also, it's ten billion percent easier to qualify for than Dark Knight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barren Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said: FIRST ATTACK 3000 I say Gremory. Doubled uses for all magic? Yes please. Also, it's ten billion percent easier to qualify for than Dark Knight. Gremory is a great one for sure. Defiant Magic as well as the class abilities has it’s uses. My favorite is War Master not just from a design standpoint but Quick Riposte is a great ability. It’s a shame that you would have to wait a long time to get, but IMO it’s worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 The title asks a different question than the header. If I were simply answering "best Master class", I would've said Wyvern Lord. Flying is very powerful in 3H, and WL receives serious boosts to all relevant offensive stats. For "favorite Master class", though, I actually answered Dark Knight (because I want to start a fight). Seriously, though, I like the feel of zapping foes with spells at a distance, then cantoing away. And getting Dark Tomefaire (seriously, why does Dark Bishop not get this?). And stylistically, the spiky black armor is over-the-top, but in a fun way - the kind that leaves me with absolutely no regrets about making Mercedes don it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ_Reflet Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 For my favorite master class, I would say Falcon Knight if it wasn't gender-locked, otherwise it's Bow Knight (Barbarossa if we're including the lord-exclusive classes). The growths for Bow Knight are terrible sadly, but it's so much fun sniping from 5 spaces away then running away with Canto right after LOL. For "best" master class, I think it's pretty widely agreed upon that Wyvern Lord, Falcon Knight, and Bow Knight all are the top 3 (probably in that order). The first 2 because flying classes break the game basically lmao, and Bow Knight because of the insane amount of range they have. War Master's pretty good as well, since the class grants you Quick Riposte among having an extra innate crit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drattakbowser Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 Maybe Wyvern Lord but I want more Master class in this game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, drattakbowser said: I want more Master class in this game. Personally, I think there's too many as it is; I think that Mortal Savant and Holy Knight have no reason to exist, especially the latter. Edited July 11, 2021 by Shadow Mir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barren Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said: Personally, I think there's too many as it is; I think that Mortal Savant and Holy Knight have no reason to exist, especially the latter. I do agree to a extent because they do have a reason for being there, just not a good one. Mortal Savant just needs it’s speed growth fixed for starters. I mean 6 move with a hp, strength, magic and luck growth aren’t bad at all if you’re looking to at least use levin sword along with a tome to have effective damage against fliers for example (bows will always be better though). The requirements too are also on the dodgy side of things. Holy Knight I would think needs to get a new ability. White Tomefaire is far to niche for it to work. I mean yes there is Seraphim which is the only thing worth using as offensive white magic. 8 uses is still plenty. Ingrid, Sylvain and Lysithea are notable users of that spell. If others had that spell and more cut out for Holy Knight, at least we could have a legit reason to use them. Rescue and Physic Bernie exists but it’s only a fun gimmick. Growths wise I think it’s fine. If they had 2x of white magic instead of terrain resist then they would be okay. Edited July 11, 2021 by Barren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ_Reflet Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said: Personally, I think there's too many as it is; I think that Mortal Savant and Holy Knight have no reason to exist, especially the latter. I think a little more would be all right, since several classes don't have a clear-cut path to master classes and seem to stop at advanced, which isn't inherently a bad thing. However, class lines like Cavalier>Paladin and Mercenary>Swordmaster feel really lacking since neither have much to offer in their advanced tier. I think if Gold Knight and Trueblade came back to be their direct master class promotion, that would have been a pretty neat idea. Edited July 11, 2021 by LJ_Tenma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Holy Elf Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 10 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: The title asks a different question than the header. If I were simply answering "best Master class", I would've said Wyvern Lord. Flying is very powerful in 3H, and WL receives serious boosts to all relevant offensive stats. For "favorite Master class", though, I actually answered Dark Knight (because I want to start a fight). Seriously, though, I like the feel of zapping foes with spells at a distance, then cantoing away. And getting Dark Tomefaire (seriously, why does Dark Bishop not get this?). And stylistically, the spiky black armor is over-the-top, but in a fun way - the kind that leaves me with absolutely no regrets about making Mercedes don it. I second all of this. Wyvern Lord's the strongest, and my personal favourites are... classes with canto, and magic classes, and Dark Knight does both so that's obviously lots of fun. 6 hours ago, Shadow Mir said: Personally, I think there's too many as it is; I think that Mortal Savant and Holy Knight have no reason to exist, especially the latter. Holy Knight doesn't have much reason to exist but I'd sooner have fixed that by giving it one than by removing it entirely. Improving offensive white magic and/or white magic uses x2 would have gone a long way to making this class viable for certain characters. Mortal Savant's in an odd space, where I think it's very viable for anyone with Hexblade or Soulblade, and mostly useless otherwise. 3 hours ago, LJ_Tenma said: I think if Gold Knight and Trueblade came back to be their direct master class promotion, that would have been a pretty neat idea. Well, one thing to keep in mind is that master classes are supposed to be sidegrades*, not straight upgrades/promotions over advanced classes. Consider how Bow Knight gives up Hunter's Volley, how War Master gives up Fierce Iron Fist, how Gremory gives up Black Tomefaire/Healing+10, or how Great Knight sits between Paladin and Fortress Knight in terms of both defence and mobility. I don't think something like Trueblade (which to me implies a straight-up better Swordmaster, at least given RD's incarnation of it) really fits in with this, or is would be very interesting. *There's one big exception to this, and that's Wyvern Rider -> Wyvern Lord. But Wyvern Lord is overbalanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salinea Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 3 hours ago, Barren said: Holy Knight I would think needs to get a new ability. White Tomefaire is far to niche for it to work. I mean yes there is Seraphim which is the only thing worth using as offensive white magic. 8 uses is still plenty. Ingrid, Sylvain and Lysithea are notable users of that spell. If others had that spell and more cut out for Holy Knight, at least we could have a legit reason to use them. Rescue and Physic Bernie exists but it’s only a fun gimmick. Growths wise I think it’s fine. If they had 2x of white magic instead of terrain resist then they would be okay. I still think Holy Knight should have had Lancefaire to be in the natural continuity of Paladin and provide a non gender locked and non sucky Master Class with Lancefair + magic utility. 2x white magic would also help it a great deal but then it might overshadow Bishop too much so I'm not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barren Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 1 hour ago, salinea said: I still think Holy Knight should have had Lancefaire to be in the natural continuity of Paladin and provide a non gender locked and non sucky Master Class with Lancefair + magic utility. 2x white magic would also help it a great deal but then it might overshadow Bishop too much so I'm not sure. Bishop would still have the Heal +10. The idea of Holy Knight at least to me is to provide offensive support while play a little heal and run. Which is fine, but in general Bishops are just better as support units. Especially considering that not everyone is going to either have a full faith spell list or their spell list is more built around a mix of all kinds of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 31 minutes ago, Barren said: Bishop would still have the Heal +10. The idea of Holy Knight at least to me is to provide offensive support while play a little heal and run. Which is fine, but in general Bishops are just better as support units. Especially considering that not everyone is going to either have a full faith spell list or their spell list is more built around a mix of all kinds of things. That doesn't work so well when the boosted spells are pretty terrible with one exception. Or when the one universally available offensive white magic spell is garbage. Unfortunately, both are the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 5 hours ago, LJ_Tenma said: I think a little more would be all right, since several classes don't have a clear-cut path to master classes and seem to stop at advanced, which isn't inherently a bad thing. However, class lines like Cavalier>Paladin and Mercenary>Swordmaster feel really lacking since neither have much to offer in their advanced tier. I think if Gold Knight and Trueblade came back to be their direct master class promotion, that would have been a pretty neat idea. Firm agree on Swordmaster, firm disagree on Paladin. Swordmaster is hindered by bad mobility and a poor mastery art in Astra. It ties with Hero (which has built-in Vantage and more bulk) in Sword damage, while falling behind Assassin in Dex and Speed (not to mention, mobility). Paladin, on the other hand, has the highest Lance damage in the game (the other Lancefaire classes, Falcon Knight and Great Knight, are a single point of Strength behind it), while also having arguably the best mobility in the Advanced tier (8 move with Canto, albeit grounded). They don't have another class to work towards, but they can get another mobility improvement, as A+ Riding offers Movement +1. 2 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said: Well, one thing to keep in mind is that master classes are supposed to be sidegrades*, not straight upgrades/promotions over advanced classes. Consider how Bow Knight gives up Hunter's Volley, how War Master gives up Fierce Iron Fist, how Gremory gives up Black Tomefaire/Healing+10, or how Great Knight sits between Paladin and Fortress Knight in terms of both defence and mobility. I don't think something like Trueblade (which to me implies a straight-up better Swordmaster, at least given RD's incarnation of it) really fits in with this, or is would be very interesting. IMO just take whatever we're envisioning to be "Trueblade", and overwrite the existing Swordmaster class. 6 move with standard forest penalties? Innate Sword Avoid +20? A version of Astra that doesn't suck? Any two of these three would make for a very-solid Advanced-tier option. 5 hours ago, Barren said: Holy Knight I would think needs to get a new ability. White Tomefaire is far to niche for it to work. I mean yes there is Seraphim which is the only thing worth using as offensive white magic. 8 uses is still plenty. Ingrid, Sylvain and Lysithea are notable users of that spell. If others had that spell and more cut out for Holy Knight, at least we could have a legit reason to use them. Rescue and Physic Bernie exists but it’s only a fun gimmick. Growths wise I think it’s fine. If they had 2x of white magic instead of terrain resist then they would be okay. I would modify the existing offensive Faith spells - drop Nosferatu's weight from 8 to 4, and give Aura and Abraxas an extra 2 charges each (3 to 5, 2 to 4, respectively). As for Holy Knight, replace Terrain Resistance with built-in White Magic Range +1. Maybe give it the otherwise-unused White Magic Crit +10 as a mastery skill, as well? Not especially great, but better than Defiant Res in most cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenticular Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 30 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: I would modify the existing offensive Faith spells - drop Nosferatu's weight from 8 to 4, and give Aura and Abraxas an extra 2 charges each (3 to 5, 2 to 4, respectively). As for Holy Knight, replace Terrain Resistance with built-in White Magic Range +1. Maybe give it the otherwise-unused White Magic Crit +10 as a mastery skill, as well? Not especially great, but better than Defiant Res in most cases. Another option (instead or as well) would be to split the spells learned from Faith into two, let's call them White Magic and Light Magic (similar to how Reason is split into Black Magic and Dark Magic). White Magic would be the healing and utility effects that would have been staves in previous games: Heal, Recover, Physic, Fortify, Restore, Ward, Warp, Rescue, Silence. Light Magic would be the damage dealing spells: Nosferatu, Seraphim, Aura, Abraxas. (Optional extra: create a few additional Light spells while we're at it.) This would allow for abilities that effect only Light Magic. For instance, you could give Holy Knight an ability "Light Magic Uses x2" or even "Light Magic Uses x3" and not have to worry about it overshadowing Bishop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salinea Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 4 hours ago, lenticular said: Another option (instead or as well) would be to split the spells learned from Faith into two, let's call them White Magic and Light Magic (similar to how Reason is split into Black Magic and Dark Magic). White Magic would be the healing and utility effects that would have been staves in previous games: Heal, Recover, Physic, Fortify, Restore, Ward, Warp, Rescue, Silence. Light Magic would be the damage dealing spells: Nosferatu, Seraphim, Aura, Abraxas. (Optional extra: create a few additional Light spells while we're at it.) This would allow for abilities that effect only Light Magic. For instance, you could give Holy Knight an ability "Light Magic Uses x2" or even "Light Magic Uses x3" and not have to worry about it overshadowing Bishop. What's the interest of having Light Magic as its own separate thing in a game with Black and Dark Magic (which already are barely different things and the ways they are is mostly a source of annoyance - aka Dark Mages not having a use for Black Tomefaire) which already cover all elemental type of magic in a generic grabbag. If we want to split them, then all the "Light Magic" should get folded into Black Magic (or even Dark Magic for, like, Nosferatu), and we're not exactly better off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenticular Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 33 minutes ago, salinea said: What's the interest of having Light Magic as its own separate thing in a game with Black and Dark Magic (which already are barely different things and the ways they are is mostly a source of annoyance - aka Dark Mages not having a use for Black Tomefaire) which already cover all elemental type of magic in a generic grabbag. If we want to split them, then all the "Light Magic" should get folded into Black Magic (or even Dark Magic for, like, Nosferatu), and we're not exactly better off. The intent behind the suggestion that they could have been split was to allow for a hypothetical ability that would give more uses to attacking Faith magic without also providing more uses to support Faith magic. Nothing more than that. And yes, obviously there would be other ways to achieve the same goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 5 hours ago, lenticular said: Another option (instead or as well) would be to split the spells learned from Faith into two, let's call them White Magic and Light Magic (similar to how Reason is split into Black Magic and Dark Magic). White Magic would be the healing and utility effects that would have been staves in previous games: Heal, Recover, Physic, Fortify, Restore, Ward, Warp, Rescue, Silence. Light Magic would be the damage dealing spells: Nosferatu, Seraphim, Aura, Abraxas. (Optional extra: create a few additional Light spells while we're at it.) This would allow for abilities that effect only Light Magic. For instance, you could give Holy Knight an ability "Light Magic Uses x2" or even "Light Magic Uses x3" and not have to worry about it overshadowing Bishop. I can see the point, but I think this (like the Black/Dark dichotomy) would be to the player's general detriment. Bishop becomes worse, for instance, due to losing out on doubled "Light" magic charges. Gremory, meanwhile, would have to choose between doubled support spells, or doubled offensive faith. If push came to shove, I wouldn't be against giving Holy Knight White Magic uses x2, flat-out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Druid Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 I picked Bow Knight as my favorite master class because the armor looks awesome, horses are awesome, and horseback archery is awesome. In real life, horseback archery combat dates back to ancient times and is present in multiple cultures. It's cool in theory imo. Plus, having a ton of mobility and bow range +2 is nice and great. Sure there's no Hunter's Volley, but Hunter's volley is more of a necessity in Maddening and is just overkill in Hard/Normal from my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenticular Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 31 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: I can see the point, but I think this (like the Black/Dark dichotomy) would be to the player's general detriment. Bishop becomes worse, for instance, due to losing out on doubled "Light" magic charges. Gremory, meanwhile, would have to choose between doubled support spells, or doubled offensive faith. If push came to shove, I wouldn't be against giving Holy Knight White Magic uses x2, flat-out. Gremory would be easy to fix. Just get rid of their existing class abilities and give them a new ability "Spell Uses x2" that applies to all spells. Bishop would be slightly more awkward, but if you really wanted to, you could change it by getting rid of Terrain Resistance and giving it Light Magic Uses x2 instead, because Terrain Resistance is almost if not quite entirely worthless. On the other hand, I might just be weird, because I actually enjoy the Black/Dark magic split and the way it makes me have to think differently about different characters, and that seems like a minority opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 (edited) As the favorite, I guess I'll say Bow Knight for the aforementioned historical reasons. Mounted cavalry once ruled the steppes and stuck fear across the settled agricultural world, the tanks of their day. Albeit tanks with less range than their infantry counterparts, not more. I've hardly played 3H, but on final magic classes, I think the -Uses abilities should stay exclusive to infantry. I like the notion of "highly mobile strike that can't carry much "ammo" to remain agile" vs. "heavily armed infantry that will prove more decisive in a slower war of attrition". This suits Early Modern heavy vs. light artillery, and mounted archers vs. infantry longbows/crossbows better than mages, but still, I think it's a good divide on paper. In practice, I very much doubt 3H battles ever go on long enough to make the extra offense non-siege ammo make a difference, whereas mobility always will. Sniper vs. Bow Knight gets the mounted-infantry divide better, if not on Hard b/c Bow Knight doubling isn't a challenge there. For Holy Knight, what is its job supposed to be? Mounted hybrid or mounted Faith magic? Everything suggests the latter, other than the low Lance qualification requirement and bonus to Lance growth. Of the four mounted magic classes, we've got: Reason Power- Dark Knight Reason Range- Valkyrie Reason Flier- Dark Flier Faith- Holy Knight None are truly hybrid. Although Dark Knight pays it a touch more lip service. We've War Monk/Cleric, Trickster, and Mortal Savant as hybrid infantry, one that is definitely Reason, and two that are nominally Faith. Although neither of the Faith duo has any abilities related to Faith barring innate Heal hahaha. Mortal Savant is the only class to combine a weaponfaire with a tomefaire. While it has nice flavor for hinting at the Holy Knight's purity, Terrain Resistance is pretty bad. Let's say we swap it for Lancefaire to give us a class with a real hybrid in terms of class abilities.: Do we end up undermining Paladin? If Master classes are supposed to be sidegrades, how does Paladin not get outdone by Holy Knight as the finishing class for Lance Horses? Since this is the only Mounted Faith class there is, is adding Lancefaire too hybrid and thus we should focus on improving its Faith abilities? Should we instead tweak War Ascetic by replacing Heal with a -Uses or Faire for a better hybridity of Faith & physicality and leave the mountie high and dry for balance's sake? I'm not sure what the right course of action would be. Hybridity sounds cool, and better to me when it isn't done via a magic weapon, but the Reason bias here and weakness of offensive Faith make me pity that too. T'would be nice if we could squeeze... I dunno, a "Unicorn Horn" Mastered Lance Art onto Paladin- heals all allies within a 1-square radius of the user for HP equal to the lance's Mt, costs 10 durability (balanced so you don't rely on Pallies for all your healing). Something to give Paladin a pinch of supporting Faithfulness, so Holy Knight could go heavier into Faith proper. (And no, Falcon Knight isn't going to get this for flier vs. horse balance. Or could Falcon Knight use any buffs?) Edited July 12, 2021 by Interdimensional Observer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 10 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said: None are truly hybrid. Although Dark Knight pays it a touch more lip service. We've War Monk/Cleric, Trickster, and Mortal Savant as hybrid infantry, one that is definitely Reason, and two that are nominally Faith. Although neither of the Faith duo has any abilities related to Faith barring innate Heal hahaha. Mortal Savant is the only class to combine a weaponfaire with a tomefaire. I'd go so far as to call Mortal Savant (and Dancer, I guess), the only true hybrid class in the game. Trickster and War Ascetic (I like that lingo) suffer from halved spell charges. And while Dark and Holy Knights gain boosted Lance rank, they get no bonus damage. 10 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said: Should we instead tweak War Ascetic by replacing Heal with a -Uses or Faire for a better hybridity of Faith & physicality and leave the mountie high and dry for balance's sake? Definitely get rid of Heal. The Heal skill is a cruel joke, since every class that gets it already requires D Faith (and thereby, has Heal). If they were to put a skill in its place, maybe Healing +10? I'd be good with just giving the class (and Trickster) full magic charges. It's absurd that these classes have similar or higher Fairh requirements to Priest, but fewer magic charges. 10 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said: T'would be nice if we could squeeze... I dunno, a "Unicorn Horn" Mastered Lance Art onto Paladin- heals all allies within a 1-square radius of the user for HP equal to the lance's Mt, costs 10 durability (balanced so you don't rely on Pallies for all your healing). Something to give Paladin a pinch of supporting Faithfulness, so Holy Knight could go heavier into Faith proper. (And no, Falcon Knight isn't going to get this for flier vs. horse balance. Or could Falcon Knight use any buffs?) It's an interesting concept, but I think Paladin does fine as-is. It's the highest-damage class with lances, while also tying with Bow Knight for the most grounded movement. I don't think adding a healing effect would fit stylistically with the physical cavalry class we've seen throughout the series. If anything, it would make more sense on Holy Knight. Oh, as for Holy Knight, I'd reinforce its offensive White magic (either via White Magic Crit +10, or White Magic Range +1), while also buffing said offensive spells. As for Falcon Knight, I think it's good as-is. The only change I can think of is getting rid of dismounting, so it can't shed its arrow weakness so readily. Balance-wise, though, I would definitely take a few points of speed from Wyvern Rider and Lord. Let them function more as "flying fortresses", without good doubling odds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: It's an interesting concept, but I think Paladin does fine as-is. It's the highest-damage class with lances, while also tying with Bow Knight for the most grounded movement. I don't think adding a healing effect would fit stylistically with the physical cavalry class we've seen throughout the series. If anything, it would make more sense on Holy Knight. Oh, as for Holy Knight, I'd reinforce its offensive White magic (either via White Magic Crit +10, or White Magic Range +1), while also buffing said offensive spells. Fair criticism. Admittedly I'm not fully-versed in class balance. Terrain Resistance already being on Paladin made me think that, considering it was given to Saint in SoV and Bishop and Holy Knight here, means it implies a measure of sanctity in the class. And, Paladin outside of FE in general medieval RPG settings East and West I think has not infrequently meant "physical unit with a small measure of healing/support". And again, it would make me feel a little less guilty not making Holy Knight a true hybrid, since now we have a visually somewhat similar physical unit that dips its toes juuuust barely into the support game. 1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Balance-wise, though, I would definitely take a few points of speed from Wyvern Rider and Lord. Let them function more as "flying fortresses", without good doubling odds. I'd say not just Speed, I'd pinch off a point of Move or even two. Why WL get the same move as a Falcon Knight, when Great Knight has less than a Paladin? As long as the Wyvern is above stall speed (assuming giant magic creatures can have that problem like IRL airliners do), slower flight is still flight. Edited July 12, 2021 by Interdimensional Observer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salinea Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Definitely get rid of Heal. The Heal skill is a cruel joke, since every class that gets it already requires D Faith (and thereby, has Heal). If they were to put a skill in its place, maybe Healing +10? I'd be good with just giving the class (and Trickster) full magic charges. It's absurd that these classes have similar or higher Fairh requirements to Priest, but fewer magic charges. I think the point is to allow for more charges of Heal per maps despite the Halved spell charge... which is pretty meh but well. Not that much of a cruel joke. (Fire on Mages serves a similar role) Edited July 12, 2021 by salinea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 39 minutes ago, salinea said: I think the point is to allow for more charges of Heal per maps despite the Halved spell charge... which is pretty meh but well. Not that much of a cruel joke. (Fire on Mages serves a similar role) The thing is, War Cleric would be better off with full magic uses, even without the Heal skill. Then it would have 10 casts of Heal either way (more than enough for almost any map), while possessing respectable amounts of other Faith spells. While Heal on Priest isn't bad, per se, I'd toss it to upgrade Healing +5 to Healing +10 in a heartbeat. As for Fire on Mage, I find it more justifiable because A) not all magic users get Fire as of C Reason, so it gives them more variety; B) for those that do, 20 Fire casts is less overkill than 20 Heals (since you can double with Fire, or use it multiple times on enemy phase); and C) it provides an opening for dark magic specialists to nonetheless compete in the "black magic" tournaments. 49 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: I'd say not just Speed, I'd pinch off a point of Move or even two. Why WL get the same move as a Falcon Knight, when Great Knight has less than a Paladin? As long as the Wyvern is above stall speed (assuming giant magic creatures can have that problem like IRL airliners do), slower flight is still flight. There's potential here. Maybe turn Wyvern Lord into a hybrid flying/armor class (say A Axes, B Flight, B Armor), while also giving it a big jump from Wyvern Rider in Defense (say, +2 into +6), and HP (+2 to +5), albeit at a speed cost (+0 to -2)? And replace Avoid +10 with Weight -5, to mimic Fortress Knight (and keep Shields an attractive option). That said, I'd want to avoid getting to a place where Falcon Knight is strictly better than Wyvern Lord on female units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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