What do you do with the priory fountains?

[AnonymousSpeed]

I wanted to ask "what do you do with sacred springs" more generally, but because of growth rates that doesn't seem like a very helpful question to ask.

However, the priory springs present an interesting situation. They're in the two most useful stats (speed and attack) and you get them at the beginning of Celica's route, so your units always have the same stats. This also means you can't tell how blessed or screwed your units will be when you use them.

I think it's probably a good idea to give at least one speed to Boey, since that lets him double the zombies in the next map. However, I'm not sure if that's too short-sighted of me. It's an interesting question and I'm not exactly sure what to do with them whenever I play the game.

Feel free to talk about the resistance fountains in the seaside shrine as well, since res growths might as well be 0% in this game.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

14 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I think it's probably a good idea to give at least one speed to Boey, since that lets him double the zombies in the next map. 

This is my only advice I've ever provided regarding these two springs. I suppose if you're dead set on benching Boey, giving him any stats is a waste, but you're a fool to bench him so early on in the game as Chapter 2, and it's not like Boey will ever be competing for a deployment slot until dungeons and the final battle. So let the boy do some chip damage while he's around

[Anathaco]

Bit of a weird one, but in my last run I gave one speed to Boey. Then I left it.

I came back in the postgame and gave the two attack to Sonya

Dont do what I did.

[Jotari]

I usually just lob the attack boosts onto Celica. She's one of the most reliable damage dealers in her route, and it's not like her promotion basis are going to negate any resources you're ever likely to give her, assuming you're training her to a decently high level before her promotion. One could argue she's a reliable enough damage user that she doesn't need the extra attack compared to the likes of Mae and Boey, but I think it does make a difference, as enemies can be tough to one round in this game. A few extra points of attack can let her killa unit in one hit with Ragnarok and not eat a counter attack (or a second use of Ragnarok's heavy HP cost), 3 more damage here also means 9 more using Seraphim against Draco Zombies later (that's how Seraphim works, right?).

Edited July 21, 2021 by Jotari

[JimmyBeans]

While not a very original strategy I save them for Palla, in fact I even save the sea shrine fountains for her as well. 

It doesn't matter what game it is I have a weakness for green haired Pegasus Knights. It's quite the problem.

Spoiler

 

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

I think it depends on how you're playing. Like, I'm currently doing something of a speedrun, so it wouldn't make much sense for me to leave any uses behind to come back for (especially since it means tearing through more zombies). As I recall, I gave 1 speed to Boey, who's offering some decent chip, and 2 attack (or 1 attack and 1 speed?) to Mae, who is absolutely going off.

12 hours ago, Jotari said:

I usually just lob both attack boosts into Celica. She's one of the most reliable damage dealers in her route, and it's not like her promotion basis are going to negate any resources you're ever likely to give her, assuming you're training her to a decently high level before her promotion.

I've been trying to divest from Celica this playthrough, but even at the fairly modest level of 11 (as of beating Grieth), she's surpassed Princess bases in everything but HP (+6) and Res (+1). On top of that, her spell list provides incentives for giving her "levels for levels' sake", as that second Recover at level 9 is very much welcome.

[Pengaius]

Normally, I throw all the attack boosts onto Genny, because I really like her as a unit and Also Physic/Expel range. 

The Seabound Shrine exp fountains (and the golden apple) go to Valbar, because Act 2 baron Valbar, is not only feasable to obtain, but in my opinion, is better than falcoknight palla. 

[AnonymousSpeed]

On 7/21/2021 at 4:56 PM, Pengaius said:

The Seabound Shrine exp fountains (and the golden apple) go to Valbar, because Act 2 baron Valbar, is not only feasable to obtain, but in my opinion, is better than falcoknight palla. 

This is one of the spiciest opinions I've seen in a while. I implore you to go on.

On 7/20/2021 at 7:08 AM, Anathaco said:

Dont do what I did.

Neva.

On 7/20/2021 at 9:59 AM, Jotari said:

A few extra points of attack can let her killa unit in one hit with Ragnarok and not eat a counter attack (or a second use of Ragnarok's heavy HP cost), 3 more damage here also means 9 more using Seraphim against Draco Zombies later (that's how Seraphim works, right?).

Effective damage means it multiplies the power of the spell, not the power of the character. I even checked because Gaiden, and it still seems to be the case here.

On 7/20/2021 at 11:03 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I think it depends on how you're playing. Like, I'm currently doing something of a speedrun, so it wouldn't make much sense for me to leave any uses behind to come back for (especially since it means tearing through more zombies).

Yeah, I'm trying to minimize backtracking on my current run. Should make things more interesting.

[Jotari]

Just now, AnonymousSpeed said:

Effective damage means it multiplies the power of the spell, not the power of the character. I even checked because Gaiden, and it still seems to be the case here.

Ah, I'm wrong on that front so. Still, I think dumping attack into Celica is a pretty smart move.

[Pengaius]

3 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

This is one of the spiciest opinions I've seen in a while. I implore you to go on.

 

In terms of levelling Valbar need to get to level 10 to become a Baron. However, since he gets the last 3 for free, he only Neede to reach level 7, or rather, he needs to level up 6 times. 

The first map Valbar takes part in is the Cantor boat map. Valbar is able to tank Revenants for days, so as long as you arent trying to LTC, he will be able to get an easy level off of the revenants, Maybe even two levels if spawns are consistently large, an optional 2nd (or 3rd) level can be gleamed if Valbar kills the boss, but he is not the best choice for this, as Celica may still need Seraphim. Due to the many kills he gets Valbar should obtain 40-50 bexp. So we will assume he is at level 2 with 90 exp. 

There are now 2 options for which map to take, however it is recommended to battle the pirates, first, as this will make it easier to promote Valbar. Valbar easily beats this whole map, meaning he will be able to level up again and should be given the bosskill unless Celica has not learned Seraphim (in which case, what are you even doing) for a 2nd level this map. He should gain 20-30 bexp. We will assume that Valbar is now at level 4 with 20 exp (blaze it Valbar) He needs to level up 3 more times to promote. 

You could go onto that Arcanist boat next but 1. Valbykins doesn't eat mages and 2. You don't need to. Onward to the Seabound shrine. Valbar will gain like 6 exp total from the necrodragons, unless he kills one in which case he gets 30 ish exp for the small one and 50 for the boss, don't bother with that however as it requires some specific damage outputs from your mages to set one of them up. Valbar is now at level 4 with 26 exp (bye bye funny number). 

You will find 2 bonewalker encounters and 1 revenant in the first room and 1 revenant, 1 bonewalker and 2 gargoyle encounters in the second (disregarding rare spawns). Valbar will be able to get 1 level in 2 (individual) bonewalker encounters from kills and bexp, easily enough and shouldnt have any trouble getting some good exp from the rev, at this point he will be around level 5 and 60, he wont level off the revenant in the next room, but if fed the full encounterhe should come out at level 5 and 90 give or take a few points, he will come out at either 6 and 10 or 6 and 40 depending on whether you fought them one or two encounters at a time. The gargoyle encounters will most likely be faced at the same time, so just send Valbar straight in to get that epic victory royale, but you gotta be quick kid, and move all of Celica's crewmates away so as not to divert attention from Valbo. He hits level seven, eats an apple and drinks some water and bippidy, bobbidy baron, there you go. 

 

 Now as for Valbar over Palla, it comes down to Palla not really needing her promotion at that point (the only thing that Falcoknight significantly contributes to in act 3 is 1 rounding summoned gargoyles, but expel does that anyway) she doesnt gain any attack, only gains 2 spd (for a whopping 12 speed unarmed about as fast as an unarmed mercenary) and she has enough base HP and a 50% growth that she only gets on average of 4 hit points on promo. She gets 4 def and and 7 res, the latter of which sounds impressive but this is SoV where magic enemies are either too weak or too strong for 7 extra res to matter. The extra point of move doesnt even help get Palla anywhere she needs to go any faster. 

Baron Valbar however with his chunky 18 defense takes a single point of damage from every Melee attack thats' not from Deen or Blake throughout the entirety of act 3 without having a Shield equipped. This allows Valbar to absolutely demolish the Archer fort, the Deen map (leather shield Valbar takes 1 damage from Deen at base) and as long as you take care of the witches and arcanists, the Grieth map as well, all of which FalcoPalla struggles to survive in. Sadly, the Mila temple is a bit to mage powered for Valbar, and act 4 is just not friendly to armor knights, the exp shrine in the tempel basement will allow you to get a falcoknight for act 4 where they are actually good. Also give Valbar the Dracoshield for Duma Tower Funnies

Thus, Valbar is a better user of the Seabound exp fountains and apple, than Palla. 

tldr Armor >>>>>> Flier

[AnonymousSpeed]

Dang son, I'm convinced. I gotta try that at some point.

Edited July 23, 2021 by AnonymousSpeed

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

On 7/23/2021 at 5:47 PM, Pengaius said:

Baron Valbar however with his chunky 18 defense takes a single point of damage from every Melee attack thats' not from Deen or Blake throughout the entirety of act 3 without having a Shield equipped. This allows Valbar to absolutely demolish the Archer fort, the Deen map (leather shield Valbar takes 1 damage from Deen at base) and as long as you take care of the witches and arcanists, the Grieth map as well, all of which FalcoPalla struggles to survive in. Sadly, the Mila temple is a bit to mage powered for Valbar, and act 4 is just not friendly to armor knights, the exp shrine in the tempel basement will allow you to get a falcoknight for act 4 where they are actually good. Also give Valbar the Dracoshield for Duma Tower Funnies

Thus, Valbar is a better user of the Seabound exp fountains and apple, than Palla. 

tldr Armor >>>>>> Flier

The fact that you've thought this all out is making me irrationally angry. Like, something about Valbar taking 30 turns or so to clear out the Archer Fort (but doing so without any realistic risk of death) makes my efficiency side experience increasing groans of discomfort.

[AnonymousSpeed]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

The fact that you've thought this all out is making me irrationally angry. Like, something about Valbar taking 30 turns or so to clear out the Archer Fort (but doing so without any realistic risk of death) makes my efficiency side experience increasing groans of discomfort.

It's efficiency of brain power. Once Valbar is not at risk of death, he can be thoughtlessly thrown at enemies. No mental energy required.

Use big brain to negate need for brain. It's automation at work.

Edited July 28, 2021 by AnonymousSpeed

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

It's efficiency of brain power. Once Valbar is not at risk of death, he can be thoughtlessly thrown at enemies. No mental energy required.

Use big brain to negate need for brain. It's automation at work.

That sounds like Awakening.

[AnonymousSpeed]

Nonsense. Actual planning had to go into getting Valbar to this point. It's payoff, something Awakening snowballs lack.

[Jotari]

24 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Nonsense. Actual planning had to go into getting Valbar to this point. It's payoff, something Awakening snowballs lack.

You do have to plan somewhat to beat those first few chapters of Lunatic+

[Pengaius]

20 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

The fact that you've thought this all out is making me irrationally angry. Like, something about Valbar taking 30 turns or so to clear out the Archer Fort (but doing so without any realistic risk of death) makes my efficiency side experience increasing groans of discomfort.

Good, it is my life's work to spread the agenda of anti-ltc. 

19 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

It's efficiency of brain power. Once Valbar is not at risk of death, he can be thoughtlessly thrown at enemies. No mental energy required.

Use big brain to negate need for brain. It's automation at work.

Funny thing is that I realised the *potential* of baron Valbar by complete accident. I was just trying to not waste exp beyond promotion thresholds on team Celica so I had a level 6 Valbar when i reached the exp fountains and I had tge funny thought of act 2 baron Valbar as a meme run for Celica side. (it should be noted that i was doing an all cavalier run of Alm route featuring pitchforked Lukas, Silque and Clair) It was only on a dedicated attempt that i got a (mostly) reliable replicatable route to the funny. 

 

 

[LoneRecon400]

You know, if all you wanted was a chunky wall, beating Desaix for his Draco Shield and shipping it to Celica  would be all it would take. +13 Defense would make Genny as durable Barron Valbar when promoted to Saint for 5 Base Defense.

Giving that to some physical unit sounds a lot more convenient than having to grind Valbar in dungeon encounters.

Edited July 29, 2021 by LoneRecon400

[Pengaius]

17 hours ago, LoneRecon400 said:

You know, if all you wanted was a chunky wall, beating Desaix for his Draco Shield and shipping it to Celica  would be all it would take. +13 Defense would make Genny as durable Barron Valbar when promoted to Saint for 5 Base Defense.

Giving that to some physical unit sounds a lot more convenient than having to grind Valbar in dungeon encounters.

There are a few issues with this approach.

1. You'd have to play halfway through Alm act 3 before you could even transfer the dracoshield, and at that point you're better off finishing the Alm section so you dont have to deal with more reinforcements.

2. The Dracoshield ruins a characters speed and prevents them from wielding a weapon, so any unit with the draco shield loses any ability to reliably kill enemies, while baron Valbar has base 22 Atk and can wield a weapon, making him a more useful combatant than any Dracoshield user. 

3. Getting the dracoshield off Desaix is a very, very time consuming task, as you either have to grind two ram villagers up to high level mages, which takes a really long time in the deliverance hideout, or surround desaix while healing through all the damage he does to whoever fights him. all the while Slayde is running around either killing your squishies or getting himself killed, and if he croaks thats a lost dracoshield. But by all means this is oh so much more convenient than getting Valbar some exp in 1 runthrough of the seabound shrine. 

[LoneRecon400]

4 hours ago, Pengaius said:

1. You'd have to play halfway through Alm act 3 before you could even transfer the dracoshield, and at that point you're better off finishing the Alm section so you dont have to deal with more reinforcements.

2. The Dracoshield ruins a characters speed and prevents them from wielding a weapon, so any unit with the draco shield loses any ability to reliably kill enemies, while baron Valbar has base 22 Atk and can wield a weapon, making him a more useful combatant than any Dracoshield user. 

3. Getting the dracoshield off Desaix is a very, very time consuming task.

1. Then just finish up Alm's route if you don't want reinforcements. Don't even really see why Reinforcements would be a issue, since that's just free EXP and Silver. 

2.  It's not like Valbar is going to one round enemies either.  Mages with the Shield would dish out about the same damage, especially considering that Celica's Route doesn't even give a good lance until the Lost Woods without spending lots of Silver.

3. I mean, have you actually done it? I did it on my first playthrough pretty easily. For Slayde all you need to do is get him to low enough HP to retreat and then have him go back forth by blocking and unblocking entrances to the Heal tiles. He won't even bother to attack healers like this. Desaix is easy to enough to corner and take down considering you can pretty easily have 2 Archers, a mage, and especially the Lighting Sword if you have Foudroyant. It becomes even faster when he runs low on HP and stops even bothering to attack and instead run around like Slayde.

Edited July 30, 2021 by LoneRecon400

[AnonymousSpeed]

On 7/28/2021 at 7:37 PM, Pengaius said:

Funny thing is that I realised the *potential* of baron Valbar by complete accident. I was just trying to not waste exp beyond promotion thresholds on team Celica so I had a level 6 Valbar when i reached the exp fountains and I had tge funny thought of act 2 baron Valbar as a meme run for Celica side. (it should be noted that i was doing an all cavalier run of Alm route featuring pitchforked Lukas, Silque and Clair) It was only on a dedicated attempt that i got a (mostly) reliable replicatable route to the funny.

>no cleric

While I applaud the memes, it sounds absolutely hellish.

On 7/29/2021 at 7:48 PM, LoneRecon400 said:

3. I mean, have you actually done it? I did it on my first playthrough pretty easily. For Slayde all you need to do is get him to low enough HP to retreat and then have him go back forth by blocking and unblocking entrances to the Heal tiles. He won't even bother to attack healers like this. Desaix is easy to enough to corner and take down considering you can pretty easily have 2 Archers, a mage, and especially the Lighting Sword if you have Foudroyant. It becomes even faster when he runs low on HP and stops even bothering to attack and instead run around like Slayde.

Healing AI is one hell of a drug.