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What form would you like to see the Fire Emblem take on next?


indigoasis
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There should be nothing more iconic in the Fire Emblem series than the very item it's named after: the titular Fire Emblem! The only problem is that there are multiple Fire Emblems, so it can be hard to keep track of them all. Regardless, you can find a list of every known incarnation of the Fire Emblem here. For a condensed list, see the bullet points below.

  • Binding Shield (Archanea, Valentia, Ylisse)
  • Crest of Velthomer (Jugdral)
  • A gem literally just called the Fire Emblem; it has no other known names (Elibe)
  • Sacred Stone of Grado (Magvel)
  • Lehran's Medallion (Tellius)
  • Yato (Fateslandia)
  • Crest of Flames (Fódlan)

It's taken on quite a few different forms across multiple different realms, which I think is one of the most interesting aspects of the series that tie all the games together. No matter the continent or timeline, there is always something called the Fire Emblem (some forms are a little more discreet than others, like the Crest of Flames, which is literally just a synonym for Fire Emblem).

So far, it has been a shield, sword, crest, stone, and medallion, with some forms taken on multiple times. What would you like to see the Fire Emblem as in a future game?

Edited by indigoasis
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One thing that I've personally wished for (even though I doubt it will ever happen) is a Fire Emblem game based in the far north. If that ever happens, then I think that having the Fire Emblem be the in-universe name for the aurora borealis would work nicely.

Failing that, and assuming the more traditional setting based loosely on high medieval Western Europe, how about a book? Or maybe a specific arcane rune or sigil that is used in the casting of magic? It's been too long since we last had a full-on mage lord, and having the Fire Emblem itself be connected to magic would be a good way to make that happen.

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17 minutes ago, lenticular said:

One thing that I've personally wished for (even though I doubt it will ever happen) is a Fire Emblem game based in the far north. If that ever happens, then I think that having the Fire Emblem be the in-universe name for the aurora borealis would work nicely.

Ah- Aurora Borealis? In this series, at this point in time, localized entirely to your game concept?

Anyway, mine's an easy one - make the Fire Emblem a particularly powerful Fire tome. Potentially, the next protagonist could come from a family of powerful Fire mages (a la House Velthomer), and then they wind up in a dispute with their siblings over who inherits the Fire Emblem. We could also see a "Wind Emblem" and "Thunder Emblem", but it's not strictly necessary.

21 minutes ago, lenticular said:

Failing that, and assuming the more traditional setting based loosely on high medieval Western Europe, how about a book? Or maybe a specific arcane rune or sigil that is used in the casting of magic? It's been too long since we last had a full-on mage lord, and having the Fire Emblem itself be connected to magic would be a good way to make that happen.

Literally didn't realize you just gave the same answer I was gonna give. Dammit, beat to the punch!

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5 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Ah- Aurora Borealis? In this series, at this point in time, localized entirely to your game concept?

Oh no, I said 'Fire Hamblem'. That's what I call hamburgers.

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Huh; I once created a topic like this one a bit over a year ago. Interesting; great minds think alike, I guess.

I would like it that it seems like the Fire Emblem is some sort of typical ancient object of great power, only for it to be revealed that the Fire Emblem is actually a person, and there's a reason that history largely misremembers it as an object rather than a person.

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Add those Tanks (Wood Shooter) from TearRing Saga and it turns out "Fire Emblem" is codename for a prototype one that has some sort of flamethrower installed instead of a regular cannon.

So suddenly Flamethrower Tank, instead of a Dragon.

 

Edited by Samz707
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They could go the super dumb route and make the Fire Emblem a person, a "chosen one" of sorts.

3 hours ago, lenticular said:

Oh no, I said 'Fire Hamblem'. That's what I call hamburgers.

You call hamburgers 'Fire Hamblems'? (I understood that reference 😛 )

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36 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

They could go the super dumb route and make the Fire Emblem a person, a "chosen one" of sorts.

 

The Crest of Flames is actually just called the Fire Emblem in the Japanese Version of 3H.

So Byleth is the Fire Emblem.

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40 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

They could go the super dumb route and make the Fire Emblem a person, a "chosen one" of sorts.

You calling my idea "super dumb"?

In any case, I wasn't suggesting that the Fire Emblem be some kind of chosen one; that would likely end up being a bit dumb, but I think the idea of the Fire Emblem being a person has a lot of potential.

 

6 minutes ago, Samz707 said:

The Crest of Flames is actually just called the Fire Emblem in the Japanese Version of 3H.

So Byleth is the Fire Emblem.

Byleth isn't the Fire Emblem; their Crest is. That is an important difference. At most, you could say that Byleth possesses the Fire Emblem.

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i've always wished for the Fire Emblem to be something different from an object or a symbol
i'd like it to be something abstract, maybe a concept, a natural event or a prophecy coming true

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12 hours ago, indigoasis said:

So far, it has been a shield, sword, crest, stone, and medallion, with some forms taken on multiple times. What would you like to see the Fire Emblem as in a future game?

considering it's always been an item, and the main protagonists usually end up receiving the title of Lord, i guess a crown would fit well in terms of lore.

as for other alternatives, a stigma/tattoo similar to the mark of the Exalt could do as well, but not to symbolize royalty, rather to represent other concepts related to myths and legends of old.

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15 hours ago, indigoasis said:

There should be nothing more iconic in the Fire Emblem series than the very item it's named after: the titular Fire Emblem! The only problem is that there are multiple Fire Emblems, so it can be hard to keep track of them all. Regardless, you can find a list of every known incarnation of the Fire Emblem here. For a condensed list, see the bullet points below.

  • Binding Shield (Archanea, Valentia, Ylisse)
  • Crest of Velthomer (Jugdral)
  • A gem literally just called the Fire Emblem; it has no other known names (Elibe)
  • Sacred Stone of Grado (Magvel)
  • Lehran's Medallion (Tellius)
  • Yato (Fateslandia)
  • Crest of Flames (Fódlan)

It's taken on quite a few different forms across multiple different realms, which I think is one of the most interesting aspects of the series that tie all the games together. No matter the continent or timeline, there is always something called the Fire Emblem (some forms are a little more discreet than others, like the Crest of Flames, which is literally just a synonym for Fire Emblem).

So far, it has been a shield, sword, crest, stone, and medallion, with some forms taken on multiple times. What would you like to see the Fire Emblem as in a future game?

You're missing the Opera from TMS. Yep, it realaly was an opera in that game. I'm also pretty sure that the Crest of Velthomer can be translated as Fire Emblem, but isn't actually called the same thing as all the other Fire Emblems throughout the series (I think Fire Emblem is typically Katakana, ie the characters literally say the words Fire Emblem {with a Japanese accent} and not the Japanese words for Fire and Emblem, except with the Crest of Velthomer which is rendered in Japanese. This is all info I'm spouting from memory so I could be wrong, but I can't imagine why my brain would make up something like this).

Anyway I've made this thread before a while back, and my personal opinion is that I'm surprised it has never been an actual Dragonstone given the series long history of dragons using stones, and dragons breathing Fire. So yeah, insofar as it matters (which isn't much), I think a suped up Dragonstone known as the Fire Emblem would suit pretty well.

14 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Ah- Aurora Borealis? In this series, at this point in time, localized entirely to your game concept?

May I see it?

Edited by Jotari
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14 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Byleth isn't the Fire Emblem; their Crest is. That is an important difference. At most, you could say that Byleth possesses the Fire Emblem.

What's funny is that the Crest of Flames is, ironically, the most common crest in the game, despite it being the rarest crest in the lore.

It's holders are (oh, spoilers btw):

Spoiler
  • Byleth
  • Sothis
  • Nemesis
  • Edelgard

What makes it's rarity even more ironic in the game is that each holder of it has a major crest.

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I don't mean to be a downer at all, but can I say none?

Reading how Metroid intends to stop making Metroids plot-relevant with the conclusion of Metroid Dread (well, mainline games at least), I'm not sure I want there to be a Fire Emblem anymore.

Yes, it's highly mutable what form the Fire Emblem takes. And yes, removing the Fire Emblem does nothing in itself to prevent FE from falling its cast of usual questionable tropes or new plot/character disasters.

But, I'm not sure if the franchise should have to pay homage to an antiquated and inflexible title, born in a much earlier era of gaming, when people weren't thinking of narrative masterpieces and vast franchises with entries reaching double digits.

The only thing that requires a Mario game to be official mainline Mario, is the inclusion of "Super Mario" in the title. Nintendo started with Bros., went over to World, had Land on the side, made a revolution in the franchise with 64, then gave us Sunshine, New Bros., Galaxy, 3D Land/World, Maker, and Odyssey. Why can't the Franchise That Started With A Lord Named Marth, transition over to simply being "Emblem"? It'd be nominally less restricting, and ATM I think I really like the semantical difference. 

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8 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I don't mean to be a downer at all, but can I say none?

Reading how Metroid intends to stop making Metroids plot-relevant with the conclusion of Metroid Dread (well, mainline games at least), I'm not sure I want there to be a Fire Emblem anymore.

Yes, it's highly mutable what form the Fire Emblem takes. And yes, removing the Fire Emblem does nothing in itself to prevent FE from falling its cast of usual questionable tropes or new plot/character disasters.

But, I'm not sure if the franchise should have to pay homage to an antiquated and inflexible title, born in a much earlier era of gaming, when people weren't thinking of narrative masterpieces and vast franchises with entries reaching double digits.

The only thing that requires a Mario game to be official mainline Mario, is the inclusion of "Super Mario" in the title. Nintendo started with Bros., went over to World, had Land on the side, made a revolution in the franchise with 64, then gave us Sunshine, New Bros., Galaxy, 3D Land/World, Maker, and Odyssey. Why can't the Franchise That Started With A Lord Named Marth, transition over to simply being "Emblem"? It'd be nominally less restricting, and ATM I think I really like the semantical difference. 

It's brand recognition at this point. The series needs to be called something, and Fire Emblem will be that name, not just Emblem, full title. It's too entrenched now. It was already a sign when Genealogy only had an off mention to a Fire Emblem, and in Thracia it was a non-factor at all. But they're still Fire Emblem games as in belonging to the same series.

Just like how Metroid long came up that it's the Chozo word for "Great/Ultimate Warrior", so Metroid the series title can continue to be used since it would just refer to Samus, for even without the Metroid DNA in her body, she long qualified as a Metroid. Fire Emblem will continued to be called Fire Emblem, regardless if there is an actual Fire Emblem the item present.

Edited by Acacia Sgt
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12 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

It's brand recognition at this point. The series needs to be called something, and Fire Emblem will be that name, not just Emblem, full title. It's too entrenched now. It was already a sign when Genealogy only had an off mention to a Fire Emblem, and in Thracia it was a non-factor at all. But they're still Fire Emblem games as in belonging to the same series.

Genealogy was originally Holy Sword Elm Kaiser, and then possibly Sword Emblem. The change to FE came only with the scrapping of plans to be radically different in gameplay than what the three Fire Emblem games had been. Gaiden had no Fire Emblem, off on another continent doesn't really count, so already with the second title, the title itself had become a relic.

I know it's very wishful thinking. I haven't the faintest expectation that Nintendo would make the change. There would inevitably be fan reactions that would cause Nintendo to undo it as soon as it was announced, barring a not-possible-in-this-case HM-SoS situation where it's change or lawsuits.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer
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11 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Genealogy was originally Holy Sword Elm Kaiser, and then possibly Sword Emblem. The change to FE came only with the scrapping of plans to be radically different in gameplay than what the three Fire Emblem games had been.

I know it's very wishful thinking. I haven't the faintest expectation that Nintendo would make the change. There would inevitably be fan reactions that would cause Nintendo to undo it as soon as it was announced, barring a not-possible-in-this-case HM-SoS situation where it's change or lawsuits.

Because originally it wasn't going to be connected to the other three games in the first place. When Kaga decided it would, it also became Fire Emblem, cementing its title for the nascent series to be. That said, considering Sword Emblem and then Emblem Saga that later became TearRing Saga, its' clear Kaga did wanted for all his SRPG works to be called Emblem in some way. But clearly Emblem and something else to differentiate between each continuity. In a way, it was Nintendo who decided to keep using FE since by then it was a settled series. They just stopped having every game take place in the same continuity.

Yeah, the HM to SoS change was because they switched companies to handle localization, but Natsume kept the HM name, since it was they who came up with it in the first place, it couldn't be taken away or refused to sell or hand it over. In Japan the series never changed its name, the confusion (since Natsume decided to now make games of their own with the name) only exists elsewhere.

---

Anyway, on the topic at hand, personally, I think it would be cool if Fire Emblem was instead something intangible. Like, the name of an ideology or so.

Edited by Acacia Sgt
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4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I don't mean to be a downer at all, but can I say none?

Reading how Metroid intends to stop making Metroids plot-relevant with the conclusion of Metroid Dread (well, mainline games at least), I'm not sure I want there to be a Fire Emblem anymore.

Yes, it's highly mutable what form the Fire Emblem takes. And yes, removing the Fire Emblem does nothing in itself to prevent FE from falling its cast of usual questionable tropes or new plot/character disasters.

But, I'm not sure if the franchise should have to pay homage to an antiquated and inflexible title, born in a much earlier era of gaming, when people weren't thinking of narrative masterpieces and vast franchises with entries reaching double digits.

The only thing that requires a Mario game to be official mainline Mario, is the inclusion of "Super Mario" in the title. Nintendo started with Bros., went over to World, had Land on the side, made a revolution in the franchise with 64, then gave us Sunshine, New Bros., Galaxy, 3D Land/World, Maker, and Odyssey. Why can't the Franchise That Started With A Lord Named Marth, transition over to simply being "Emblem"? It'd be nominally less restricting, and ATM I think I really like the semantical difference. 

The Fire Emblem has clearly never been a limiting factor in their creativity when it comes to designing these stories. Tellius is the only set of games in the franchise where it actually seems like the idea of a Fire Emblem was integrated into the story instead of just retroactively tacked on after the fact.

3 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Anyway, on the topic at hand, personally, I think it would be cool if Fire Emblem was instead something intangible. Like, the name of an ideology or so.

Does an Opera count as something intangible?

Edited by Jotari
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8 hours ago, Jotari said:

You're missing the Opera from TMS. Yep, it realaly was an opera in that game. I'm also pretty sure that the Crest of Velthomer can be translated as Fire Emblem, but isn't actually called the same thing as all the other Fire Emblems throughout the series (I think Fire Emblem is typically Katakana, ie the characters literally say the words Fire Emblem {with a Japanese accent} and not the Japanese words for Fire and Emblem, except with the Crest of Velthomer which is rendered in Japanese. This is all info I'm spouting from memory so I could be wrong, but I can't imagine why my brain would make up something like this).

Anyway I've made this thread before a while back, and my personal opinion is that I'm surprised it has never been an actual Dragonstone given the series long history of dragons using stones, and dragons breathing Fire. So yeah, insofar as it matters (which isn't much), I think a suped up Dragonstone known as the Fire Emblem would suit pretty well.

May I see it?

Right, I forgot. The whole thing with Illusory Dolh, summoning the Marth mirage, and all that stuff. Guess it wouldn't be new then, haha.

Perhaps then for a mainline game something similar, then.

... wait, how did I quote this post when I was quoting this one:

14 minutes ago, Jotari said:

The Fire Emblem has clearly never been a limiting factor in their creativity when it comes to designing these stories. Tellius is the only set of games in the franchise where it actually seems like the idea of a Fire Emblem was integrated into the story instead of just retroactively tacked on after the fact.

Does an Opera count as something intangible?

Instead?

Edited by Acacia Sgt
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