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What form would you like to see the Fire Emblem take on next?


indigoasis
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10 minutes ago, Jotari said:

The Fire Emblem has clearly never been a limiting factor in their creativity when it comes to designing these stories. Tellius is the only set of games in the franchise where it actually seems like the idea of a Fire Emblem was integrated into the story instead of just retroactively tacked on after the fact.

Which I acknowledged with the tropes line. FE4 forced an emblem in at the last minute, and yet it carried on with blue lords, Camuses, all-important dragons, and hopelessly evil cults.

I'd want to agree with you on the Tellius part, as I can see what you mean doing a run of every game in my head. But, as I have a Tellius bias already, I don't want to formally say I agree.

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7 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Right, I forgot. The whole thing with Illusory Dolh, summoning the Marth mirage, and all that stuff. Guess it wouldn't be new then, haha.

Perhaps then for a mainline game something similar, then.

... wait, how did I quote this post when I was quoting this one:

Instead?

Because Jotari has many powers someone would consider...unnatural.

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12 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Which I acknowledged with the tropes line. FE4 forced an emblem in at the last minute, and yet it carried on with blue lords, Camuses, all-important dragons, and hopelessly evil cults.

I'd want to agree with you on the Tellius part, as I can see what you mean doing a run of every game in my head. But, as I have a Tellius bias already, I don't want to formally say I agree.

Yeah so overall it's not an element I really care strongly. I don't think there's any pressing need for them to abandon having anything called Fire Emblem, as it isn't bringing down the quality of the stories by having it. If they released another game without it at all, chances are I, and many others, wouldn't even notice the game lacks a Fire Emblem until someone points it out.

4 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

More like I just didn't noticed when the screen scrolled, but you do you.

Yes, I made that happen.

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It's like I mentioned before. It's a legacy title, where the original purpose in question is now an artifact title, but the name itself has stuck and is now association with the whole. Fire Emblem is hardly unique on this matter. Like Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy. Heck, we even have a Legend of Zelda or two that don't even have a Zelda present or central to the setting, yet they're still LoZ games.

That said, always open for there to be an actual Fire Emblem every now and then with varying degrees of involvement.

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

Yes, I made that happen.

I care little for your roleplay, but like I said, you do you. Will ignore any future responses of this from now on.

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8 hours ago, Jotari said:

May I see it?

Hm... No.

4 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The only thing that requires a Mario game to be official mainline Mario, is the inclusion of "Super Mario" in the title. Nintendo started with Bros., went over to World, had Land on the side, made a revolution in the franchise with 64, then gave us Sunshine, New Bros., Galaxy, 3D Land/World, Maker, and Odyssey. Why can't the Franchise That Started With A Lord Named Marth, transition over to simply being "Emblem"? It'd be nominally less restricting, and ATM I think I really like the semantical difference. 

Granted, the "Fire Emblem" is rarely significant to the story or gameplay of any given title. But transitioning to "Emblem" suggests that the "Emblem" part is somehow more consistent with the series' core identity than the "Fire" part. When in actuality, neither of them really have independent meaning. They only hold any sort of a combined meaning because of how they're a series standard at this point (just as "Super Mario" has been a series standard, at least since the SNES, for mainline Mario platformers). Making a lateral shift to "Emblem", or perhaps releasing a game in the series under the title "Water Emblem", could work... but it could also create confusion, without any obvious gain. Hell, there's nothing even particularly fiery about the original "Fire Emblem".

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7 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

It's like I mentioned before. It's a legacy title, where the original purpose in question is now an artifact title, but the name itself has stuck and is now association with the whole. Fire Emblem is hardly unique on this matter. Like Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy. Heck, we even have a Legend of Zelda or two that don't even have a Zelda present or central to the setting, yet they're still LoZ games.

That said, always open for there to be an actual Fire Emblem every now and then with varying degrees of involvement.

I care little for your roleplay, but like I said, you do you. Will ignore any future responses of this from now on.

Basically started off as a legacy title (for as little sense that makes). The Fire Emblem was not important in the original game. The sequel retroactively gave it importance, but as far as the first game in the series is concerned, the Fire  Emblem is literally just thing. It plays no role in the plot and has no backstory. It's just something Nyna gives Marth and now he can open chests.

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9 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

It's like I mentioned before. It's a legacy title, where the original purpose in question is now an artifact title, but the name itself has stuck and is now association with the whole. Fire Emblem is hardly unique on this matter. Like Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy. Heck, we even have a Legend of Zelda or two that don't even have a Zelda present or central to the setting, yet they're still LoZ games.

I was gonna mention The Legend of Zelda, since a lot of the time, Zelda is barely even there, but it's the title of the series as a whole.

~

The way I see it, the subtitle is what identifies what the game will be about, whereas the main title identifies what series it's a part of/what kind of gameplay you can expect if you've played other entries. Fire Emblem is the series identifier, and the subtitle (Mystery of the Emblem, The Binding Blade, Path of Radiance, Three Houses, etc.) is what identifies some general idea about the game's story. Take Gaiden for example; in Japanese, it means "side story." So Fire Emblem Gaiden is literally just Fire Emblem Side Story.

Having something in the game called the Fire Emblem is really just an homage to the title (half the time, the something in question isn't even explicitly called the Fire Emblem except for like one or two instances since it goes by another name). For example, it's like when a character in a movie says the movie's title or some iconic line or something like that. It's one of those, "Look ma! There it is!" moments.

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I suppose another thing I could see the next Fire Emblem be is an ancient superweapon that brought about a horrific calamity, sort-of like the Valkof in Valkyria Chronicles.

Then again, according to what little lore there actually is in Fire Emblem Fates, that's sort-of what the Yato was: an ancient weapon forged by the Rainbow Sage to give himself an advantage in the War of the First Dragons by bringing humans into the war and using them as First-Dragon fodder; an act which the other First Dragons copied by giving some of their blood to humans and which the Rainbow Sage stayed behind on the unnamed continent in order to atone for, with the heavy implication that the Yato chooses Corrin not because Corrin is special or a chosen one, but because Corrin desires peace: the very thing that would complete the Sage's atonement. 

Aw, man; that could've been an amazing deconstruction of the typical FE "legendary weapon given to humanity by an ancient benevolent dragon to protect humanity": a weapon that was indeed a gift, but was originally gifted to humanity for a selfish reason rather than a benevolent one, and that chooses the protagonist simply because that protagonist has similar goals as the blade's creator, rather than because of anything special about the protagonist. Such a shame that Fates didn't utilize that potential in the slightest.

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38 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

I suppose another thing I could see the next Fire Emblem be is an ancient superweapon that brought about a horrific calamity, sort-of like the Valkof in Valkyria Chronicles.

Then again, according to what little lore there actually is in Fire Emblem Fates, that's sort-of what the Yato was: an ancient weapon forged by the Rainbow Sage to give himself an advantage in the War of the First Dragons by bringing humans into the war and using them as First-Dragon fodder; an act which the other First Dragons copied by giving some of their blood to humans and which the Rainbow Sage stayed behind on the unnamed continent in order to atone for, with the heavy implication that the Yato chooses Corrin not because Corrin is special or a chosen one, but because Corrin desires peace: the very thing that would complete the Sage's atonement. 

Aw, man; that could've been an amazing deconstruction of the typical FE "legendary weapon given to humanity by an ancient benevolent dragon to protect humanity": a weapon that was indeed a gift, but was originally gifted to humanity for a selfish reason rather than a benevolent one, and that chooses the protagonist simply because that protagonist has similar goals as the blade's creator, rather than because of anything special about the protagonist. Such a shame that Fates didn't utilize that potential in the slightest.

If the Yato was all about that peace, then why didn't it choose Mikoto? She's so peaceful she can make a hippie barrier that stops invading armies completely.

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15 minutes ago, Jotari said:

If the Yato was all about that peace, then why didn't it choose Mikoto? She's so peaceful she can make a hippie barrier that stops invading armies completely.

We can all agree that the story of Fates is riddled with dozens of problems; this apparent contradiction is one of them. I'm sure someone would answer along the lines of "it was inside the statue and wasn't exposed until after her death", but then that of course raises the question of how it got there in the first place, which the story never answers because Fates is riddled with loose plot threads that never get tied up and ideas that get brought up once (such as Corrin being able to turn into a dragon) that never get brought up again.

This is part of what I meant when I criticized Fates for not really exploring the Yato in the slightest outside of a bit of tacked-on backstory.

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3 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Then again, according to what little lore there actually is in Fire Emblem Fates, that's sort-of what the Yato was: an ancient weapon forged by the Rainbow Sage to give himself an advantage in the War of the First Dragons by bringing humans into the war and using them as First-Dragon fodder; an act which the other First Dragons copied by giving some of their blood to humans and which the Rainbow Sage stayed behind on the unnamed continent in order to atone for, with the heavy implication that the Yato chooses Corrin not because Corrin is special or a chosen one, but because Corrin desires peace: the very thing that would complete the Sage's atonement. 

That's actually really cool; I've never thought about the Yato like that before. It reminds of weapons like the Master Sword and the Vampire Killer; they can only be wielded by select individuals (those who possess the Spirit of the Hero/have overcome the trials necessary to obtain it and those of the rightful bloodline that can wield the weapon at it's full power respectively).

~

Discussion about the Yato actually makes me wonder which Fire Emblem is the most powerful among them all. Like... if they were used in their intended ways, what would prevail in the end?

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3 hours ago, indigoasis said:

That's actually really cool; I've never thought about the Yato like that before. It reminds of weapons like the Master Sword and the Vampire Killer; they can only be wielded by select individuals (those who possess the Spirit of the Hero/have overcome the trials necessary to obtain it and those of the rightful bloodline that can wield the weapon at it's full power respectively).

~

Discussion about the Yato actually makes me wonder which Fire Emblem is the most powerful among them all. Like... if they were used in their intended ways, what would prevail in the end?

Thanks. When I got to the part in Revelation where the Rainbow Sage reveals all this about the Yato, my first thought was, "Finally; we're actually getting some small amount of lore and worldbuilding", then my next immediate thought was, "This is going to be like Corrin being able to turn into a dragon in that the plot will never bring it up again; isn't it?" And, sadly, I was correct.

I'd say that, conceptually at least, it seems to be more of a deconstruction of that: if I'm right about what the story was trying to imply, it wasn't because of rightful bloodline or passing trials, but because the sage could use Corrin to fulfill his own atonement.

 

Well, a lot of them have vastly different purposes, so comparing them in terms of power or which one would "prevail" seems like it would get way too easily oversimplified by whoever tries to compare them.

 

By the way, what did you think of the idea I suggested earlier (the one where characters assume the Fire Emblem is an item, only for it to be revealed to actually be a person)?

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14 hours ago, indigoasis said:

Discussion about the Yato actually makes me wonder which Fire Emblem is the most powerful among them all. Like... if they were used in their intended ways, what would prevail in the end

Obviously, it's Bern's fancy rock. "No innate power", you say? "A useless MacGuffin", you contend? Maybe so, but it was still (inexplicably) necessary for Zephiel's coronation. Thus giving this one gemstone, which we never see in person, a great deal of political power.

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19 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Thanks. When I got to the part in Revelation where the Rainbow Sage reveals all this about the Yato, my first thought was, "Finally; we're actually getting some small amount of lore and worldbuilding", then my next immediate thought was, "This is going to be like Corrin being able to turn into a dragon in that the plot will never bring it up again; isn't it?" And, sadly, I was correct.

I'd say that, conceptually at least, it seems to be more of a deconstruction of that: if I'm right about what the story was trying to imply, it wasn't because of rightful bloodline or passing trials, but because the sage could use Corrin to fulfill his own atonement.

I think that's what makes the Yato such an interesting item, especially with it's ability to transform into alternate, more powerful states, which are reflective of the path that Corrin chooses.

20 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

By the way, what did you think of the idea I suggested earlier (the one where characters assume the Fire Emblem is an item, only for it to be revealed to actually be a person)?

That would actually go pretty well with @Sooks idea for Pirate Emblem. Gosh, all these ideas make me want for them to happen for real in upcoming titles. 

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10 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Obviously, it's Bern's fancy rock. "No innate power", you say? "A useless MacGuffin", you contend? Maybe so, but it was still (inexplicably) necessary for Zephiel's coronation. Thus giving this one gemstone, which we never see in person, a great deal of political power.

I don't care what anyone thinks, I love how it's just a fancy rock in Blazing Blade.

Edited by Samz707
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On 7/25/2021 at 11:20 PM, indigoasis said:

That's actually really cool; I've never thought about the Yato like that before. It reminds of weapons like the Master Sword and the Vampire Killer; they can only be wielded by select individuals (those who possess the Spirit of the Hero/have overcome the trials necessary to obtain it and those of the rightful bloodline that can wield the weapon at it's full power respectively).

~

Discussion about the Yato actually makes me wonder which Fire Emblem is the most powerful among them all. Like... if they were used in their intended ways, what would prevail in the end?

Lehran's medallion gives you the power to unleash Asher's and Yune, so that's pretty god damn powerful. Though depending on how cranky Ashera is that morning it might not go the way the user desires.

Edited by Jotari
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I personally do not care.

To be entirely honest I think it's a silly question- to answer it requires you to "build off" the idea of what a "Fire Emblem" is, but the Fire Emblem can be darn near anything, so long as it's in a Fire Emblem game. At that point, there's really nothing to build off. This makes sense considering that in half the games in the series, there either is no "Fire Emblem" or its name-dropped almost out of obligation.

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I want it to be something insignificant to the masses and dont actually have awesome powers or important utility, but maybe something silly/simple that changes the life of the protagonist into something that will make the "lord" character lifepath into a leader. it could be a sign, or symbol of a secret hideout, or maybe a local drug store logo that owned by JAGEN of that series.

then at the end of the story side-chara will ask how the lord become a Lord, and they answer: "... it all started when i find the fire emblem on the back alley"

oh wait, now it become significant

On 7/26/2021 at 6:30 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Obviously, it's Bern's fancy rock. "No innate power", you say? "A useless MacGuffin", you contend? Maybe so, but it was still (inexplicably) necessary for Zephiel's coronation. Thus giving this one gemstone, which we never see in person, a great deal of political power.

CMIIW, but that fancy bern rock is actually the one at the hilt of Binding Blade, and the blade wont function as intended or released from its pedestal until you socket it  in. (thats why merlinus cant pick the sword despite trying to, while Roy can since Guinevere gives it to him, duh)

if thats not canon, make it MY headcanon

On 7/25/2021 at 5:09 AM, Jotari said:

 I, and many others, wouldn't even notice the game lacks a Fire Emblem until someone points it out

dont worry, someone like me and many others will point it out for you.

Edited by joevar
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10 hours ago, joevar said:

CMIIW, but that fancy bern rock is actually the one at the hilt of Binding Blade, and the blade wont function as intended or released from its pedestal until you socket it  in. (thats why merlinus cant pick the sword despite trying to, while Roy can since Guinevere gives it to him, duh)

if thats not canon, make it MY headcanon

Yeah, it is. 

By that logic, since the Fire Emblem is the stone in the hilt of the Binding Blade, that would by association make the Binding Blade the Fire Emblem, which also means that the Yato technically isn't the first sword variant of the Fire Emblem. Funny how that works, huh?

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22 minutes ago, indigoasis said:

Yeah, it is. 

By that logic, since the Fire Emblem is the stone in the hilt of the Binding Blade, that would by association make the Binding Blade the Fire Emblem, which also means that the Yato technically isn't the first sword variant of the Fire Emblem. Funny how that works, huh?

I've recognized this, but it's subtle enough that I see why people wouldn't pick up on it. Add a statement or two to the relevant scenes that spells it out more and the point would be sufficiently more obvious.

 

Speaking of Yato and the BB, if we get a weaponized Fire Emblem again, no locking to a single weapon type please if we've yet another avatar. Avatars should be flexible, and restricting their ultimate weapon to a single type is a bad idea. Sure ByBy can swing a sword regardless of class, unlike 'rin, but you're still getting less out of the Creator Whipier (portmanteau of "Whip" and "Rapier") if you don't have Swordfaire. Magic object being magical, it should be able to transmute its form to whatever best suits its user ATM, like the Soul Edge and Soulcalibur.

As for the two accessory Fire Emblems we've gotten, the Flame Crest is too random to rely on. The Archanean lockpick is kinda there, while its restored form stat bonuses don't matter a whole lot unless FE12 Lunatic Marth vs. Medeus, and the Earth Dragon sealing is mostly thematic, not substantial.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer
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3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Magic object being magical, it should be able to transmute its form to whatever best suits its user ATM, like the Soul Edge and Soulcalibur.

Sounds exactly what Breidablik does in Heroes (well, it can be changed if you want your summoner to wield a different weapon type, that is; otherwise, it's function is just s u m m o n).

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On 8/1/2021 at 2:36 AM, indigoasis said:

Yeah, it is. 

By that logic, since the Fire Emblem is the stone in the hilt of the Binding Blade, that would by association make the Binding Blade the Fire Emblem, which also means that the Yato technically isn't the first sword variant of the Fire Emblem. Funny how that works, huh?

also BB can generate Fire/Flame too so yeah, so it is the fire emblem of that game

On 7/26/2021 at 4:20 AM, indigoasis said:

Discussion about the Yato actually makes me wonder which Fire Emblem is the most powerful among them all. Like... if they were used in their intended ways, what would prevail in the end?

what power Yato has? 

But since some of it are not weapon i dont think we can compare how powerful they are

On 7/26/2021 at 7:40 AM, vanguard333 said:

By the way, what did you think of the idea I suggested earlier (the one where characters assume the Fire Emblem is an item, only for it to be revealed to actually be a person)?

the term Emblem has very broad meaning. i can already imagine a story where some faction getting bamboozled by the actual fire emblem

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18 hours ago, joevar said:

what power Yato has? 

It's the incarnation of the Fire Emblem in Fates, and so far the only incarnation to be a usable weapon (I've made my case for the Binding Blade, but the gem in the hilt of the sword is actually the Fire Emblem, not the sword itself; I'd say the Binding Blade really only counts by association).

The Yato's main purpose is to be used in conjunction with the other legendary weapons of Fates (Siegfried, Raijinto, Fujin Yumi, and Brynhildr) in order to draw out it's full strength and end conflict. At least... that's what I understand of it, anyway. It's meant to bring about peace.

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