Jump to content
♠Soul♠

I hate how people pretend lying is this inherently bad and evil thing

Recommended Posts

People make it seem like it's a sin, when everyone virtually does it or has done it some point- a lot of which isn't even for malicious or deceitful reasons, just simple convenience of life (i.e avoiding a waste of time arguement). If anything, I think brainwashing people into believing it's a "bad" thing or a sin is sometimes a way of using it to your own covenience, so you are able to take advantage of their honesty.

As long as you don't make it an actual habit, there's nothing wrong with doing it sometimes.

Edited by ♠Soul♠

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When someone asks me, "how are you doing?" or "how's your day been?" my response of "I'm doing alright" or "good" is a lie roughly half the time because I'd rather not burden people with my troubles or risk giving an honest response only to be seen as too preachy if I'm genuinely not feeling good.  Otherwise, honesty is one of the only things I take pride in about myself.

I do however believe lying is a bad thing, especially if you do so for the sake of doing so or to actively mess with people for fun.  People who lie for either of those reasons will most likely be on my shit list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, FailWood said:

I do however believe lying is a bad thing, especially if you do so for the sake of doing so or to actively mess with people for fun.  People who lie for either of those reasons will most likely be on my shit list.

That's a thing, lying isn't inherently a bad thing, and people need to stop making it seem like it's the only way to lie. You mentioned the perfect example, and it's obvious you have no bad intention in mind when you lie about that.

And to that specific point, it's part of the reason I tend to not answer that "question". In fact, I want to experiment on just telling the truth about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mean, it's pretty basic knowledge that 'how are you' is by default a greeting / acknowledgement, not a genuine question. This is also not a bad thing. It's a signal they do, at least, care about your wellbeing, even if nobody involved wants to have a Moment about it. You are allowed to answer in the negative - 'not great', 'been better' - so it isn't purely ornamental, either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Parrhesia said:

You are allowed to answer in the negative - 'not great', 'been better' - so it isn't purely ornamental, either.

That's something I'd do sometimes, usually if the day's rough to the point where I feel like they would be able to tell that I'm lying if I tried it.  Though I likely still wouldn't tell them why that is if they asked unless it's someone I trust deeply because again, I 'd rather not be seen as preachy when I'm being genuine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My girlfriend used to put those little store bought hotdogs in the mince meat mix whenever she bought bolognese. I used to lie and say I liked it even though such low quality meat in such a dish is appalling. Then one day I said feck it and told her I didn't like it. And she revealed she didn't like it either, but she only did it because I said I like it. I didn't mean any harm, i was trying to be nice, but by marring reality with lies it meant I had to eat store bought hotdog meat in an otherwise good bolognese when I didn't want to. Moral of the story, when someone asks you if you like something, they probably genuinely want to know if you like something, and if someone asks how you're doing, they probably genuinely actually care about how you're doing that day.

Still, be tactful with the truth. If she does look fat in that dress then put some humors spin on it. Or evade, evade, evade!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, eclipse said:

I hate how context is ignored entirely.

Context is of course very important. Even the most hardcore follower of Kantian ethics would probably agree that if someone is in the midst of actively torturing you to try and find the secret hideout of your family (which you know they will not leave under any circumstance) with the open intent to kill them, then lying might just be a good idea. Of course likewise I can say that killing is, broadly speaking, immoral, but justifiable under a number of circumstances.

Edited by Jotari

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Jotari said:

Context is of course very important. Even the most hardcore follower of Kantian ethics would probably agree that if someone is in the midst of actively torturing you to try and find the secret hideout of your family (which you know they will not leave under any circumstance) with the open intent to kill them, then lying might just be a good idea

Which is what the opening post completely ignores.  There's a lot of factors that need to be weighed, such as whether or not telling someone that they're fat is a good idea, even if they are clearly overweight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, eclipse said:

Which is what the opening post completely ignores.  There's a lot of factors that need to be weighed, such as whether or not telling someone that they're fat is a good idea, even if they are clearly overweight.

Yeah, I added some extra parts to the previous comment highlighting how pretty much anything can be justified in context. There's very few actions I think one could describe as inherently evil, as in all contexts. It's basically just rape (the whole if you don't rape this person I'll your family example could maybe be used again here, but I think in such circumstances evil is still being done even if from one's perspective it's unavoidable, I guess one could but torture itself in the same vein).

Edited by Jotari

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Jotari said:

Still, be tactful with the truth. If she does look fat in that dress then put some humors spin on it. Or evade, evade, evade!

Man, if I were with a woman in the future, being asked that question would the most awkward experience, as I have a soft spot for women with more weight on them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Context always matter for any given situation, as regardless of what a person thinks is inherently wrong, the right situation can make it a reasonable or even the ideal action. 

But regarding lying, assuming all parties wants to build a positive & healthy relationship with the other, being honest in a constructive manner is usually the more beneficial approach for all parties in the long run. Though, being honest doesn't give a free pass for the person to be a jerk when saying it.

For example, I understand why parents would lie to their kids about the existence of Santa Claus, but honestly, I think it's just better to admit to the kid(s) that the gifts are coming from the parents and other relatives who wishes for them to be happy. 

Even with magic tricks, after showing the trick, I like explaining how the trick is done and why the trick works the way it works. They may be disappointed at first that magic isn't real, but now they can develop the skills to perform the trick themselves.

15 hours ago, Parrhesia said:

I mean, it's pretty basic knowledge that 'how are you' is by default a greeting / acknowledgement, not a genuine question. This is also not a bad thing. It's a signal they do, at least, care about your wellbeing, even if nobody involved wants to have a Moment about it. You are allowed to answer in the negative - 'not great', 'been better' - so it isn't purely ornamental, either.

The thing I found when willing to tell people that I'm not in a good mood, is that many people are actually receptive to this. I'm not expecting them to put much effort to actually resolving the issue, but they are willing to be more lenient with me & in turn, some of them are welling to share their feelings to me as well. I've actually formed some good relationships with a few of my co-workers because of this.

3 hours ago, FailWood said:

Man, if I were with a woman in the future, being asked that question would the most awkward experience, as I have a soft spot for women with more weight on them.

Well, you could just tell her that you a soft spot for women with more weight on them, so going forward, she knows where you are coming from.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

But what is "evil" and what makes something "bad"? What even is a "lie"?

A lie is when you say something while being fully aware that what you're saying is not true.  This topic has already gone over different kinds of lies; ones that lack malicious intent, ones that are done to keep another person safe, ones that are strictly for personal interest, and others that are done just to mentally fuck with people.  Lies are all a matter of how they're used, and the intention behind them.

It's why saying something not knowing if it's wrong beforehand is technically not a lie.

Edited by FailWood

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, FailWood said:

Man, if I were with a woman in the future, being asked that question would the most awkward experience, as I have a soft spot for women with more weight on them.

Then you simply say in full honesty, "I think you look fantastic". Because if that's your view of her, then she does. Optional to add sheepishly "but you know me I like a bit of weight so I'm not the best person to ask."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, FailWood said:

A lie is when you say something while being fully aware that what you're saying is not true.

But...what is truth? And what does "fully aware" mean? What constitutes "fully aware" as compared to "mostly aware" or "partially aware"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

What constitutes "fully aware" as compared to "mostly aware" or "partially aware"?

Conviction of mind and voice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, indigoasis said:

how are we supposed to know if this whole thread isn't just one big lie?

I can only speak for myself when I say that I've been honest about what I've said the whole time.  Plus you could probably tell from my first comment on this topic that I can be a deep thinker, at times overly so with little things.  I doubt I could provide more telling proof then that.

1 hour ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

But...what is truth? And what does "fully aware" mean? What constitutes "fully aware" as compared to "mostly aware" or "partially aware"?

How did I know you weren't going to contribute anything meaningful and continue being an enigma?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, FailWood said:

How did I know you weren't going to contribute anything meaningful and continue being an enigma?

>imagine not even acknowledging the importance of defining truth smh

I mean how can you even know what a lie is without knowing what truth is? Every definition of "lie" I'm aware of defines it relative to the truth.

I'll actually go a step further and show that there is indeed immediate relevance. If a woman asks you if she looks good (as you and others have discussed) and you say yes, she does...isn't that an opinion? Do opinions have truth values? I thought "opinion" was something which could neither be proven or disproved, so how would you even determine whether an opinion was true or not? Whether you hold that opinion may be determinable, but can any stated opinion really be a truth or a lie?

Edited by AnonymousSpeed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I'll actually go a step further and show that there is indeed immediate relevance. If a woman asks you if she looks good (as you and others have discussed) and you say yes, she does...isn't that an opinion? Do opinions have truth values? I thought "opinion" was something which could neither be proven or disproved, so how would you even determine whether an opinion was true or not? Whether you hold that opinion may be determinable, but can any stated opinion really be a truth or a lie?

I'd consider it a lie if you gave an opinion that's the opposite of how you actually feel about something.  Even if there's no way to prove it, the person stating their opinion would still know if they were being truthful or not with others when saying it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, FailWood said:

truthful

Which brings us back to our previous question-

On 7/27/2021 at 5:40 PM, AnonymousSpeed said:

what is truth?

 

On 7/27/2021 at 6:09 PM, Jotari said:

Conviction of mind and voice

"Conviction" meaning something other than certainty, correct? That was more the angle I was going for earlier, but both can be discussed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...