The future of faithful remakes and why I think remakes should start embracing change and modernization more.

[henrymidfields]

This is something that I have been wondering since the last few weeks. It has stemmed from my posts discussing a possible remake of FE4, and also my opinions regarding the Switch remake of Link's Awakening. 

We had stuff like NES/SNES Mini, Virtual Console, and Switch Online ports of originals. Gone are the days when we had to scavenge on EBay or secondhand stores for old games...well, mostly. Many of the games I used to play decades ago are sold on the eShop now.

Back when VC was not yet a thing, Shadow Dragon was the closest accessible thing for the me to experience Marth's story. I wasn't a huge fan of how the gameplay and story presentation was a bit too faithful, but at least I can understand why that approach was taken.

Which brings to my next question: should remakes be more reimagined and modernised onwards? I'm asking this, because now that accessibility to original versions is not as much of an issue, I don't really understand why we need faithful remakes as much. There still might be cases for them, particularly those on consoles that aren't yet ported online, like some of the stuff from N64 and Gamecube and onwards. To be even fairer, I also acknowledge that newer games tend to be less tedious with cutscenes, scene changes, transitions from overworld into battles, so that may also have to be considered with VC releases.

As for my reasons for not wanting faithful remakes? Because then what is the point of a Switch remake? You might as well just ask Nintendo to have it released on the VC with the necessary localizations, which have been done for the original FE1-3. For example, I'm not interested in playing Link's Awakening on the Switch because it's too similar to the original to justify a price tag of approx $60. I've already played that on the GameBoy years ago, and even if I didn't, there's the VC for that which is $5. Instead, I wanted the story and worldbuilding of Koholint to be expanded way beyond the original, and make the characterizations deeper, the history richer, and the story experience as epic as Skyward Sword. If they've modernised the presentation, then I'd wish they've gone the whole way and expanded the game.

On the other hand, I thoroughly enjoyed the Final Fantasy 7 Remake, because of how richer the world of Midgar looked, and how much real it was presented as. It shows just how much of a crapsack place Lower Midgar is compared to the above, not to mention how smooth and stress-free the gameplay was - especially the transition into battle.

So yeah, provided that ports of old games remain readily accessible I think future remakes should generally be bolder, and designers should be less hesitant to shake things up. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by henrymidfields

[Zapp Branniglenn]

If I lay out what I think the best remakes of all time are, it's a pretty clear curve in favor of the ones that reimagine or significantly expand on the original. And when I think of lesser remakes like Pokemon Firered, Metal Gear Solid Twin Snakes, my ultimate assessment tends to be that I wish they did more than just bring the mechanics up to speed with modern entries without any new stuff that takes advantage of said mechanics. Regarding ultra-faithful remakes, I'd rather it just be a port. Throw in an English script if it doesn't have one. Give it save states, a rewind feature, or a better means of saving your progress, control settings that match the original hardware or make the game more accessible than it was previously. If the game is already good, it doesn't need anything else. 

[Clear World]

7 hours ago, henrymidfields said:

Which brings to my next question: should remakes be more reimagined and modernised onwards?

The term remake and reimagine have like very different connotations attached to them, so it's hard for me to be a full yes to this.

But I'm all for making modern improves, removing stuff that didn't work, and expanding on the original source material and the beats that did hit with the audience. I say this, but does ultimately depends on the execution of the changes.

If a company is only going to make a visual update... it disappoints me. At that point, I probably would be willing to just accept a direct port.

Because you brought it up, I personally wouldn't consider FF7 Remake a remake... even though it has the word remake in its title. I know there isn't an agreed upon technical definition for remake & reimagining, but FF7 Remake is more of complete reimagining of the game. It reinterprets the game, more or less completely reworking its gameplay and its story. Its story is so different from its original that it literally depends on players to know the original story to make sense of its actual story.

 

[vanguard333]

My opinion on whether I prefer a 1:1 remake like Ocarina of Time 3D and Shadow Dragon, a more full-overhaul remake like Final Fantasy 7 Remake, or something in-between honestly depends on the particular game, so I don't really mind either approach too much. If I really had to break down what I think a remake needs, I suppose it would mainly be the following:

1. I think a remake should look like what the game devs would've made the original be if they had today's tech. For something like Ocarina of Time, the core game could be played today without too many indicators that the game was made in 1997, so a 1:1 remake fits quite a bit. For Final Fantasy 7, I don't know how the game has aged since I've never played it, but I could easily see them having made something along the lines of Final Fantasy 7 Remake in terms of world design & gameplay if you gave them today's hardware and knowledge.

2. I think a remake needs to understand what people liked about the original; a remake needs to remain faithful in some way to the things that made the original good. Majora's Mask 3D has proven divisive because a lot of its changes were appreciated by newcomers but were criticized by a number of fans for essentially breaking a lot of what made the game unique, and those detractors of the remake often cite how a lot of the development team was made up of people who didn't like Majora's Mask and that the remake was reluctantly spearheaded by Eiji Aonuma, who famously suffered a breakdown during the game's rushed development and looks back on the game with dread, and they often cite how, in preparation for the remake, he went back and played the original, but in the mindset of looking for things he regretted implementing and making a list of things that he felt needed to be changed, rather than looking at what actually worked about the game. Basically, a lot of them say that Aonuma was the wrong person to spearhead the remake's development because he didn't understand what made the game good in the eyes of its fans.

Interestingly, both a 1:1 remake and a full-overhaul remake are equally capable of doing this in their own ways. However, there's increased risk in the case of a full-overhaul remake because the more you change, the more you risk throwing something good in the garbage. With Ocarina of Time 3D, the dev team's main goal was "don't mess this up", to the extent that they even went out of their way to preserve all glitches that weren't game-breaking or didn't result in permanently missing out on content simply because they knew part of the fanbase enjoyed stuff like the Jabu-Jabu in the Adult Timeline Glitch; they wanted to translate the game from the N64 to the 3DS without losing any components of the game's appeal. For Final Fantasy 7 Remake, one thing I see from a lot of fans is that the new world design, gameplay, presentation, etc. are all very faithful to what was appealing about the original game, with their main criticisms being certain plot elements; namely the plot-time-ghost things that change the game from an actual remake into more of a misleading stealth-sequel that no one really asked for.

The area where I think this gets very interesting in terms of context is the parts where remakes can't really be faithful to one of the appealing things: namely important plot twists that have become so heavily associated with the game that everyone knows about them because of pop-cultural osmosis (what TV Tropes calls "It Was His Sled" twists, though I prefer to call them, "No, I am your father" twists). With Ocarina of Time, the twist everyone knows is that Sheik is actually Zelda. Since the remake was a 1:1 remake, they kept the script and everything intact, but they did make the twist more obvious in subtle ways: for instance, if you look at Ocarina of Time's official artwork, it shows Sheik having a wider frame than Zelda and an overall more masculine design in general, and, despite the remake bring every other character model closer to the official artwork, it dropped this aspect of Sheik's design to make it more obvious that Sheik is Zelda. With Final Fantasy 7 Remake, only two of the original game's main twists have become this famous: Sephiroth is the main villain, and Aerith dies. For both those twists, the game pretty much acts as if the player knows them already. But, almost as if to compensate, the game places an increased emphasis on the twists that aren't so famous, such as the following:

Spoiler

1. Cloud never actually having been a SOLDIER

2. Why Sephiroth became a villain and what he did to make Cloud hate him and fear him

3. There is no promised land of endless mako; all of Shinra's plans are built around an ancient lie

How do you feel a game should handle these "No, I am your father" twists?

3. Perhaps most importantly, a remake should have a clear direction about what kind of remake it wants to be. One thing I always appreciated about Shadow Dragon was that it wore on its sleeve that it was a 1:1 remake with a deliberately retro aesthetic and everything, and up until the stuff with the plot ghosts, I appreciated Final Fantasy 7 Remake for being both unmistakably a new game and unmistakably FF7 (in my case, because I was a complete newcomer to the series and I was hoping that a remake of the most famous game in the series would be a perfect starting point). Whatever you may think of either approach; when done with a clear direction, the whole is often more than the sum of its parts. One thing that I really do not like is a remake with an uncertain direction or no direction, as the lack of clear idea of what to change and what not to change makes it that each component of the remake makes all the other components worse (i.e. the whole is less than the sum of its parts).

I really wanted to like Shadows of Valentia, I ended up really disliking Shadows of Valentia, and the game's complete mismatch of what to preserve and what to modernize/update was the root of most of my problems with it. I have never played Gaiden, and I could feel what was altered and how it was altered and what was untouched while playing it because it was immensely jarring. They needed to choose: full overhaul, 1:1, or something in between. At first, the game seemed like something in between, but instead, it was all over the place. But I don't know; given how I see most people who've played both say they prefer Shadows of Valentia over Shadow Dragon in terms of what they want with an FE remake, maybe I'm the only one who has a problem with its seeming uncertainty about what kind of remake it even wanted to be. Frankly, for Genealogy of the Holy War, I just hope that, however they choose to remake it, they at least choose something, and that we don't get a repeat of what I think is Shadow of Valentia's core problem.

 

…Sorry this was long; I guess I had a lot to say.

Edited July 30, 2021 by vanguard333

[Tediz64]

I'm gonna chime in here and say that what really needs to be discussed is price tag.

If they are simply porting over a game without too many alterations they (Nintendo, Microsoft,  and Sony) need to chill the f*** out with that price tag of $60.

Like seriously, Skyward Sword was just put out ten years ago and plenty of people still can access that. The only convenience of porting it to the Switch did for me (and countless others) was make it so I don't have to get behind my TV and rewire the console I currently am playing. Take for example the bundle pack of Ninja Gaiden on that contains 3 games for the price of $45. That is like 15 a piece. Even the Mario 3D Stars was reasonable. Sometimes it is a hit or miss just only looking at that price tag for me. Also look at this Mario Party collection they advertised. Again, some people do have access while others don't, but to slap that price tag on it even if you never experienced a Mario Party, $60 just for a rumored 5 boards and handful of old minigames. Why? You aren't even creating anything  new. The programming and software already exists and all you are doing is porting. I'm not a programmer so I don't know much about game development but I know I can at least say that the basic foundation for the game is already made, simply reconfiguring it shouldn't justify that price. If I were to use an analogy,  that's like the difference between installing a new engine in an old car compared to building the car from scratch just to get a new engine.

Now onto if they do re-haul the game and add features and so forth. Then I think price tag is okay. But it can't be a Pokemon Black/White then Black2/White2 kinda situation. I'm talking sapphire/ruby to omega/alpha re-do kinda situation. Those weren't just remastered. They were re done from the ground up. 

Regarding the OP's subject, I have to say I'm scared of seeing what they are going to do in the future. I use to want a diamond pearl remake but not anymore. I dislike what happened. And I also wanted fire emblem 6 thru 10 ported over to the Switch but not done differently. If they got too cocky and tried to change it I can't imagine what horrors they do to Sacred Stones or Path of Radiance. I love those games exactly how they are and don't want too many modifications 

(Except the weight/strength system they use to factor in attack speed with heavy weapons. I want Blazing Sword and Sacred Stones to copy what PoR & Radiant Dawn did.  Use strength instead of constitution. Amelia got way too penalized and Tana as well.)

[Vicious Sal]

I hold onto several terms that at least make it easy for me to explain what I mean by them. I use it to differentiate different projects and it allows for people to understand what I mean and then they tend to say like "ah yes that's what I meant when i said Remake!"

- Reboot: Puts a complete stop at the game (series) timeline and starts over into a completely new direction, often only having the title of the Game (series) remain.

 

- Remaster: A 1:1 recreation of a game with modern tools. OOT 3d would fall under this.

 

Then there's two that kinda get used sporadically but they aren't entirely relevant for the topic at hand; 

- Rehash: A cheap copy or knock off just to get some money from people. Some part 2's from disney movies could be considered this. All the FEH copies made by not nintendo such as Heroes of Emblem Saga on the app store.

- Rework: Hardly ever used, best description are the Visual & Gameplay Updates from League  of Legends champions. Where they try to distill the core identity and work a resembling kit and visual around it that innovates and brings the champion up to the modern standard.

 

And then there's the remake and its two brothers:

- Redesign: building an existing game again and keeping story and design elements mostly the same, only removing plot holes or stuff like that. May also add stuff story wise but leaves most of the story concepts the same. Does however change a lot of things in gameplay. Introduces new mechanics etc. If Radiant dawn got a release on the switch but with an expanded supports system such as POR and core gameplay mechanics being changed such as the combat and terrain system being overhauled; That would be a redesign. Story is the same, just recieving some padding, gameplay is where the big changes are. The skeletal structure of the game is being changed. 

- Re-imagination: The polar oppsite. Gameplay stays the same, focus of changes lies mostly in story and aethetic etc. The skin and appearance is being changed, with core gameplay staying the same.

- Remake: Both gameplay and story etc recieve a major update. I haven't played Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee, so I can't be for certain, but from my outsider perspective I'd put them either in Redesign or Remake. I just don't know how much the story differes, I have only seen the new Rival and Red & Blue show up as well, indicating to me that the story has quite a few changes to accomodate that. But I'm not sure. If the story is a carbon copy it's go into redesign. FF7 Remake however, judging from the posts here, absolutely falls in the Remake category. But also, haven't played it so can't be sure myself.

These are of course just my personal holdfasts, and aren't the industry standard or anything. But so far I have been able to pretty neatly order games by these criteria, so it works well enough for me, and I hoep you might get some use out of it.

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Vicious Sal

[Lord_Brand]

4 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

For Final Fantasy 7 Remake, one thing I see from a lot of fans is that the new world design, gameplay, presentation, etc. are all very faithful to what was appealing about the original game, with their main criticisms being certain plot elements; namely the plot-time-ghost things that change the game from an actual remake into more of a misleading stealth-sequel that no one really asked for.

Hmm...my Mega Man X remake (or reboot) series was gonna implement visions of the future X was going to receive from a strange light in X2, X3, and X4, which would warn him that certain individuals are about to die, giving X a chance to avert those deaths. I wonder if that would be viewed in a similar light (pun unintended)?

I find both kinds of remakes interesting. 1:1 remakes with fancier graphics and gameplay tweaks can be fun to experience as I know from playing OoT3D, Crash N. Sane Trilogy, Spyro Reignited Trilogy, and Link's Awakening. On the other hand, more drastic reimaginings that try things that simply wouldn't have been possible back when can also be fascinating. My Mega Man X: A New Age idea would be an example of the latter.

Spoiler

Overview

The basic idea is this: Each of the current 8 mainline games is expanded into a three-act story with gameplay built around the 3D environment. Where the 2D games were built to be quick and short but highly replayable, the 3D remakes would be aimed at exploration and a greater emphasis on story and character-driven narratives. Due to the three-act story and open world design, the sense of progression is even more RPG-like with X gathering many different armor parts as well as life and weapon energy upgrades.

Gameplay

The gameplay is also built around the 3D environment. X still has dashing and wall-kicking, but being moved into 3D offers potential for a lot more than that, such as the ability to grab on to parts of enemies or the ability to dodge roll and take cover. Where the 2D games force X to shoot forward with his buster, the 3D remakes give him the ability to target enemies and strafe around them, much like Mega Man Legends or the Ratchet & Clank series. Eventually, X gains a Ride Chaser he can summon when he needs a quick ride across town, and he gains the ability to glide and even fly using certain armor parts to enable more freedom of exploration, making you feel like a superhero on patrol. There's even an underwater mission that gives X modifications to improve his water mobility in order to avert the usual problems with water levels in video games (like slow, sluggish movement or awkward and confusing controls).

Since the game is broken down into three Acts, you might guess that this means there are 24 Maverick bosses total as opposed to the original eight, on top of bosses for story missions that take place at the beginning and end of each Act. The first set are unaffiliated utility and entertainment Reploids gone Maverick, like a gorilla who works in construction or a seal who performs for a circus. The second set are agents of the Shadow Hunter Syndicate (the "Shadow Hunter" part is inspired by Zain and Geemel of Mega Man Xtreme, known there as the "Shadow Hunters"), who coordinate their actions and even show up in each other's stages to impede you until you defeat them. The third set, as you might guess, are the original eight bosses, former Maverick Hunters who go Maverick along with Sigma himself. The different sets of Mavericks represent escalating threat levels; first independent rogues, then organized criminals trained in theft and sabotage, and finally defectors with military-grade equipment at their disposal. It makes sense that X's former comrades would be the most dangerous adversaries in the story since they were built or modified specifically to fight and destroy Mechaniloids and other Reploids, where the first set were built for public services such as construction and the second set were built for crimes such as theft and assassination rather than open warfare.

In Mega Man X: A New Age, X is often also joined by other characters on his missions, usually fellow Maverick Hunters (the two exceptions end up becoming Hunters later on). Zero is the most obvious candidate, but since Acts I and II take place before Sigma's revolt, you also get to work with characters like Launch Octopus and Storm Eagle, and there are five new characters and one reworked character who not only join X on certain missions but also become recurring characters in future titles. There are also bonus missions that let you take a different character for a spin, such as Flame Mammoth, Vile, or even Zero himself. These bonus missions are unlockable "for fun" diversions that take place concurrently with X's missions in the game, but don't really have a direct impact on the main game itself. For example, Flame Mammoth deals with Mavericks in the Middle East, and Storm Eagle leads his personal team, the Flock, on a mission against aerial Mavericks.

Act Themes

A New Age's story focuses on the themes of Peace, Oppression, and Chaos. Act I takes place in a relatively peaceful Abel City where Maverick attacks are isolated and quickly controlled. The Mavericks themselves are the least threatening of the three sets, due to being civil workers gone rogue. Act II kicks off with the Mayor of Abel City being assassinated by an agent of the Shadow Hunter Syndicate (later identified as Sniper Scorpion) during an attack on City Hall, leading to the city implementing much stricter security protocols that make Abel City feel more grim and oppressive. The Third Act marks the official start of Sigma's revolt, plunging the city into utter chaos as Mavericks attack the city en masse and the Hunter guards Sigma stationed everywhere during Act II turn their weapons on the humans and Reploids they were supposed to protect. The endgame also gets its own mini-Act, since traveling to Sigma's Fortress is a point of no return. The game's canon ending also features a Metroid-esque escape sequence where X rushes to pick up Zero's remains and reunite with their comrades at an escape vehicle before the Fortress explodes.

Worldbuilding

A New Age includes plenty of fanservice for Classic-era fans. Light leaves behind recordings of himself and his creations as mementos for X. Some of the armor sets X collects are themed on Classic-era Robot Masters (known as "Master Sets", appropriately enough), like Guts Armor and Bomb Armor. Kalinka Cossack appears as an elderly woman with a great-granddaughter. The first Act of the game is closer to Classic in tone, with bosses who are a little goofier than the Syndicate agents and ex-Hunters fought later. The end of Act II takes place at an eerily familiar factory that's been adapted by the Syndicate to build weapons of war for Sigma's army.

Another idea the remake series explores is that of X, Zero, and various Reploids having "casual" or "civilian" forms in addition to their usual armored combat forms. This is to reflect how Mega Man in the Classic series is shown being able to shift back into his original form when he's not on the job fighting. It only makes sense Light would design X to likewise have a more human-looking form, since he hoped X would get to enjoy a peaceful life, and other Reploids could likewise follow suit. X could don his civilian form when interacting with NPCs in the city or undertaking noncombat sidequests, and activate his combat mode at a moment's notice, armoring up on the spot. This would be similar to how Vent and Aile could switch between human and Reploid forms in ZX.

Another bit of worldbuilding in MMX:ANA is the introduction of the Reploid Registration System. Reploids produced in authorized facilities are assigned a Reploid Registration Number similar to social security numbers in real life that can be used to identify and track the Reploid in question. However, Reploids produced in unauthorized facilities (like the Shadow Hunters) don't have such a number, making them difficult if not impossible to track.

Characters

Many Reploids from across the series appear in ANA as NPCs. Overdrive Ostrich, Bubble Crab, Flame Stag, Wheel Gator, Magna Centipede, Gravity Beetle, Blast Hornet, Web Spider, Storm Owl, Magma Dragoon, and Volt Kraken all appear as Maverick Hunters who can be found at Hunter Base, usually resting or training between missions. Relationships between different Hunters are established here; Launch Octopus and Volt Kraken are good friends, Bubble Crab and Wheel Gator are not. Boomer Kuwanger and Gravity Beetle are shown to be brothers. Flame Stag and Magma Dragoon frequently spar. Overdrive Ostrich admires Storm Eagle, and is looking to transfer from the 4th Land Unit to the 7th Airborne Unit despite being designed after a flightless bird. He encourages Chill Penguin to do the same, due to the latter getting bored with his station at the South Pole.

Dr. Doppler, Alia, Shining Firefly, Gate, Blizzard Wolfang, Rainy Turtloid, and Shield Sheldon all appear as faculty members of the Doppler Research Facility, a new location that is first properly visited during Act II. Doppler is naturally the director of the facility, overseeing all the experiments being conducted there and being one of the few staff with access to the Deep Facility, where top-secret projects are stored. Alia and Gate are Doppler's prize pupils, collaborating on cutting-edge Reploid designs including Wolfang, Turtloid, and Sheldon (the latter of whom is assigned to a Reploid researcher named Dr. Jim as a bodyguard). Shining Firefly is another researcher at the facility who specializes in laser technology, though he does not want his research being used for weaponry. Indeed, Doppler himself is anti-violence and so forbids his subordinates from designing or developing lethal weapons, though nonlethal self defense measures such as capturing devices are permitted. This stance causes friction between Doppler and Sigma, the latter of whom has tried to persuade the former to develop weapons for the Maverick Hunters before.

The X=Hunters make an appearance in the game's final ending scene, setting the stage for the X2 remake.

The most notable new characters are:

• Lift, an orange Reploid built for heavy lifting, hence his name. Lift initially works under a gorilla Reploid as part of his construction team until Gorilla goes Maverick, at which point Lift helps X stop his former boss. Upon Gorilla's defeat, Lift looks for a new job, and decides to lend his strength to the Maverick Hunters, joining Team X by Act II.
• Drift, the self-proclaimed "Green Biker Dude" who works at a Ride Chaser shop. He teaches X how to pilot Ride Chasers, and provides him with one of his own. He also helps X catch a high-speed Maverick, making him think he has potential as a Maverick Hunter. Drift decides to join the Hunters alongside his best friend Lift in time for Act II, and forms Team X with X, Zero, and Lift. During ANA, Drift's combat skill is minimal, but his abilities improve greatly in the sequel, where he develops an identity as the agile speedster of Team X. Not technically a new character per se, but expanded and elaborated upon to the extent that he might as well be.
• The Four Sisters, the predecessors to the Four Guardians of MMZ fame. X first meets them in Act II, after they've been captured by agents of the Syndicate. Upon being released, they help X fight and defeat the according Maverick boss, and continue aiding him during Act III.
  • Sal, short for Salamanda, specializes in heavy weaponry and direct combat. She's part of the 4th Land Unit and in fact is the second-in-command to Flame Mammoth, with whom she often butts heads due to his bullying personality (incidentally, she's far more popular among the rest of the unit due to standing up for them and leading them with a fair mind and caring hand). When Flame Mammoth refused to approve Ostrich's request to transfer to the 7th Airborne Unit, Sal went behind Mammoth's back and approved it herself. When among her sisters, she tends to play the role of leader, due to being the oldest and most assertive.
  • Undine specializes in aquatic combat, using a polearm and ice projectiles. She can also generate a protective barrier around herself and those near her. Her lower half can shift between humanoid legs for land mobility and a fish tail for aquatic mobility, making her similar to a mermaid. She's thus part of the 6th Naval Unit. She's shy, sensitive, and loves romance.
  • Sylphie specializes in aerial combat, wielding dual blades and flying with wings. She can also channel electricity. She's part of the 7th Airborne Unit, and of Storm Eagle's Flock. She's upbeat and outgoing, though also fairly excitable and prone to panic.
  • Yokai specializes in stealth and surveillance. She uses ninjutsu weapons and techniques, including a holographic cloning ability. She's the calmest and most focused of the four.
• Ace, a saber-wielding Maverick Hunter and second-in-command to none other than Sigma himself. Ace fills in as the "sempai" or mentor figure to X in this version, since Zero joins the Hunters after X and thus doesn't make a lot of sense as a mentor figure. Ace also mentors Zero, particularly in saber combat, and becomes a sort of "big brother" figure to X and Zero. He disappears during the endgame, his ultimate fate unknown.
• Zeta - A mysterious "Reploid" found in the ending by Serges of the X-Hunters. Zeta occupies a capsule similar to the one X was found in, and wakes up in the very last scene of the game.

Foreshadowing

A New Age also includes a buttload of foreshadowing. The Enigma Cannon appears as an old fixture near the Hunter Base. One of Gate's wayward experiments is an early attempt at a Reploid with shapeshifting abilities. In the ending, X becomes the commander of the Maverick Hunters and Cain proposes developing a new "Reploid force" to help deal with the upsurge of Mavericks. Agile and Violen salvage Sigma and Vile's remains from the ruins of Sigma's Fortress. And lastly, Serges activates a capsule marked "Zeta", found in an unknown location. The shadowed inhabitant of the capsule opens their eyes just before the credits roll.

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Lord_Brand

[Lightcosmo]

The way i see it: when it comes to remakes, they always go "HD" cause in their eye, the people only care about graphics and... that's it. "Pretty the game up a bit and it's a must buy!" That works for some, and i don't think there's any issue with that. But it doesn't seem to change the devs focus on graphics in most cases.

If your saying that older remakes of games should adopt new age styles of gameplay and such, i'm mixed on that opinion. Example: if i wanted to play KH1 or 2 and they were forced to run KH 3's engine, that would be a huge turnoff for me. (garbage engine and all XD) Now if you give me a choice between the two, i'd be alright with that. Some things... just shouldn't be touched, as it can be for the best.

But adding content to a game can never truly hurt, so i can support that 100%.

[Ouzyxol]

For me, Remakes are a tricky topic.  If it is to faithful, it's little more than a port.  If not faithful enough, it's not a remake, basically a different game based on the idea of the old one.

   To faithful:  FE SD & (to a lesser extent) FE 12

   Not faithful enough:  Pokémon Let's Go

   Just faithful enough:  FE SoV

Also touching on what people above are saying:  it also defends on the age of the first game &/or the price they're pushing for.  Example: if Game Freak pulls another BW2 or Ultra SuMo for their full $60 price tag, I'll be cross with them.  To a lesser extent, a remake of any FE from the Wii era and onward is to soon for a Remake, but not to early for a Port, and I expect them to not ask for more than $40 for said Port.

[vanguard333]

7 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Hmm...my Mega Man X remake (or reboot) series was gonna implement visions of the future X was going to receive from a strange light in X2, X3, and X4, which would warn him that certain individuals are about to die, giving X a chance to avert those deaths. I wonder if that would be viewed in a similar light (pun unintended)?

I find both kinds of remakes interesting. 1:1 remakes with fancier graphics and gameplay tweaks can be fun to experience as I know from playing OoT3D, Crash N. Sane Trilogy, Spyro Reignited Trilogy, and Link's Awakening. On the other hand, more drastic reimaginings that try things that simply wouldn't have been possible back when can also be fascinating. My Mega Man X: A New Age idea would be an example of the latter.

Hm... I'm not sure. I think a large part of it would probably come down to how you choose to frame it. Perhaps, if you really wanted to avoid it being viewed in a similar way, it might be best to package it as essentially a "bonus campaign" for returning players and for newcomers to play after finishing the main game (if such a thing would even be feasible as an option), though you then run the risk of people complaining that you essentially play the game twice to get a golden ending.

Same; I find both kinds of remakes interesting.

By the way, what did you think of my other points, like my three main things I think a remake needs, or the question of if a remake can truly be completely faithful to everything that made the original good if one of the things that made it good was an important twist that's now common knowledge, or my argument for why Shadows of Valentia is a worse remake than Shadow Dragon?

[Lord_Brand]

51 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Hm... I'm not sure. I think a large part of it would probably come down to how you choose to frame it. Perhaps, if you really wanted to avoid it being viewed in a similar way, it might be best to package it as essentially a "bonus campaign" for returning players and for newcomers to play after finishing the main game (if such a thing would even be feasible as an option), though you then run the risk of people complaining that you essentially play the game twice to get a golden ending.

Same; I find both kinds of remakes interesting.

By the way, what did you think of my other points, like my three main things I think a remake needs, or the question of if a remake can truly be completely faithful to everything that made the original good if one of the things that made it good was an important twist that's now common knowledge, or my argument for why Shadows of Valentia is a worse remake than Shadow Dragon?

Here's how I'd implement the "future visions"...

Spoiler

The first time X receives a vision is when he and Drift, aka the "Green Biker Dude", launch an attack on the Maverick factory. A strange light appears before X and enters him. He receives a vision of Drift getting blasted. He warns Drift to veer to the side, which causes the impending shot to miss him by a hair's breadth. Drift is thankful for the heads-up, but wonders how X knew the attack was coming, which X himself isn't sure about.

The second time is when X is being pursued by the Sigma Virus. This time, the vision is of Dr. Doppler sacrificing himself to stop the Sigma Virus. X doesn't want him to do that, so he ends up charging into the Virus himself, which attempts to infect him, causing him to enter a hibernation state during which he activates an "X-Antibody" program that damages the Virus and forces it out of him. During Sigma's trip inside X's body, he became aware of the strange light inside of him, and formulates a theory as to what it is.

The third and so far final time is more elaborate, as you don't realize it's a vision until later. Near the end of X4 Act III, X, Zero, a new tritagonist, and their comrades confront Colonel at the spaceport where Repliforce is preparing to launch for Final Weapon. Like in the original, they fight Colonel and destroy him, causing Iris to go mad with grief (and destroy Double in the process, explaining why he doesn't show up as a boss on Final Weapon). X, Zero, and the tritagonist then have to face the maddened Iris, which leads to her death. Then X goes on to fight General, who has just about lost his will to fight at this point, followed by Sigma. X defeats Sigma, General sacrifices himself to stop Final Weapon, and our three heroes return to Earth with Iris' body, mourning.

Then suddenly the whole game rewinds back to just before they charge off to fight Colonel, and we realize X has been having a vision of the whole endgame. He now knows Sigma is behind the war, and he knows what will happen if they fight Colonel and kill him - Iris will die as well. Thus, they plan to capture Colonel rather than kill him, using Doppler's capturing device - the very same kind Mac used on X during the attack on Hunter Base. They capture Colonel and try to warn him about Sigma's involvement and his plan to gain control of Final Weapon. At first, Colonel refuses to cooperate, but General, overhearing the conversation, orders Colonel to stand down, realizing that they're being used by Sigma. Double shows his true colors and takes Iris to Final Weapon as a hostage, ordering General to grant Sigma access to Final Weapon in exchange for Iris' life. Double then tells X to come alone to Final Weapon, or else Iris will die.

X of course agrees to do so, though he forms a plan with Zero and the tritagonist to save Iris. X confronts Double at Final Weapon. Though Double tries to force X to surrender by torturing Iris with electric shocks and threatening a lethal voltage, Zero leaps in to rescue her while getting a hit on Double in the process. X is then able to destroy Double. The weakened but still alive Iris is left in the care of the tritagonist while X and Zero go on to confront General - now infected by the Sigma Virus, forcing him to fight them - and Sigma, who indicates that he's aware X has been receiving knowledge of the future and warns him that there is a heavy price to pay for meddling with the past. X and Zero destroy Sigma yet again, only for General to end up sacrificing himself to stop Final Weapon anyway. X, Zero, and the tritagonist return to Earth with Iris in tow, thankful that she and her brother at least are alive now.

We would learn in the X5 remake's third act that the light transmitting these visions to X is in fact his future Cyber Elf self from the Zero series, who witnessed these deaths as they originally happened and warns his past self about them so he can avert them. X5's third Act is themed on the Future, and possibly involves characters from the Zero series traveling back to the past from several possible futures - including Ciel, Copy X, Elpizo, Omega, and Weil. The villains would be traveling from futures where they won, while Ciel would be from the good future where Zero defeated all of them, the one that leads into the ZX series.

So, the X reboot series would also be a kind of stealth sequel to the X series. But considering that a good number of the original X games are of dubious quality to begin with, I would hope fans wouldn't mind them being soft-retconned into something bigger, more cohesive, and epic. And if you're wondering who this "tritagonist" I mentioned in the spoilered section is...

Spoiler

In my prior post, I mentioned a character named Zeta who is teased at the end of A New Age. X2: The Maverick Wars introduces her as initially an ally of the X-Hunters who has been lead to believe X killed her "brother", Zero, and thus seeks revenge against him. X fights her, and depending on the player's skill either defeats her himself and takes her into custody or is himself defeated, only for Zeta to be captured by one of X's comrades anyway. Either way, X questions Zeta about her motives and her statement about being Zero's "sister". Upon learning that Zeta knows of "Z-Files" that can be used to rebuild Zero, X proposes a partnership between the two of them, showing her where the base keeps Zero's remains enshrined to gain her trust.

Zeta is slow to trust X of course, due to the X-Hunters manipulating her into believing that he's fighting to keep Reploidkind oppressed and that he destroyed Zero, but when X shares his memories of Zero with her and shows her the plight of the residents of Abel City who are still rebuilding after the first game and how they revere Zero as a hero, Zeta comes to realize that maybe X isn't the one trying to deceive her, here. She ends up turning against the X-Hunters and joining the Maverick Hunters by the end of the story, becoming quite close to X. Zeta thus becomes the series' tritagonist, forming a trio with X and Zero.

At the end of X4's story, Zeta expresses sympathy for Iris, being torn by her brother and her lover fighting. Zeta hopes that she doesn't find herself in a similar predicament. And, well, we all know what's coming in X5...

As for the whole deal about Zero and Zeta being siblings, the truth of the matter is that Zeta was created by another OC of mine, Dr. Alice Wily, who is Albert Wily's ex-wife. They would have married during their time at Robot University, only for the relationship to cool down considerably once Light and Wily had their falling out over the Double Gear system (ironically, she preferred Light and would have married him had he not convinced her to get together with Albert). Alice ended up leaving Wily, though she did have two children by him which she raised with Light's help (which in turn inspired Light to build some kids of his own). Her inspiration for creating Zeta would have come from two sources: collaborating with Light on the advanced AI project that leads to X's creation, and learning about Wily's plans for Zero. Alice created Zeta to have free will like X, but left her with a request: to help Zero. At first Zeta interpreted that to mean rebuilding Zero after he was destroyed, but upon learning of his own origins and of his connection to the Maverick Virus, Zeta comes to realize what her mother truly meant.

As for your three main things, I generally agree. I've played a good number of those remakes myself, so I understand what you mean.

[vanguard333]

32 minutes ago, Lord_Brand said:

Here's how I'd implement the "future visions"...

  Reveal hidden contents

The first time X receives a vision is when he and Drift, aka the "Green Biker Dude", launch an attack on the Maverick factory. A strange light appears before X and enters him. He receives a vision of Drift getting blasted. He warns Drift to veer to the side, which causes the impending shot to miss him by a hair's breadth. Drift is thankful for the heads-up, but wonders how X knew the attack was coming, which X himself isn't sure about.

The second time is when X is being pursued by the Sigma Virus. This time, the vision is of Dr. Doppler sacrificing himself to stop the Sigma Virus. X doesn't want him to do that, so he ends up charging into the Virus himself, which attempts to infect him, causing him to enter a hibernation state during which he activates an "X-Antibody" program that damages the Virus and forces it out of him. During Sigma's trip inside X's body, he became aware of the strange light inside of him, and formulates a theory as to what it is.

The third and so far final time is more elaborate, as you don't realize it's a vision until later. Near the end of X4 Act III, X, Zero, a new tritagonist, and their comrades confront Colonel at the spaceport where Repliforce is preparing to launch for Final Weapon. Like in the original, they fight Colonel and destroy him, causing Iris to go mad with grief (and destroy Double in the process, explaining why he doesn't show up as a boss on Final Weapon). X, Zero, and the tritagonist then have to face the maddened Iris, which leads to her death. Then X goes on to fight General, who has just about lost his will to fight at this point, followed by Sigma. X defeats Sigma, General sacrifices himself to stop Final Weapon, and our three heroes return to Earth with Iris' body, mourning.

Then suddenly the whole game rewinds back to just before they charge off to fight Colonel, and we realize X has been having a vision of the whole endgame. He now knows Sigma is behind the war, and he knows what will happen if they fight Colonel and kill him - Iris will die as well. Thus, they plan to capture Colonel rather than kill him, using Doppler's capturing device - the very same kind Mac used on X during the attack on Hunter Base. They capture Colonel and try to warn him about Sigma's involvement and his plan to gain control of Final Weapon. At first, Colonel refuses to cooperate, but General, overhearing the conversation, orders Colonel to stand down, realizing that they're being used by Sigma. Double shows his true colors and takes Iris to Final Weapon as a hostage, ordering General to grant Sigma access to Final Weapon in exchange for Iris' life. Double then tells X to come alone to Final Weapon, or else Iris will die.

X of course agrees to do so, though he forms a plan with Zero and the tritagonist to save Iris. X confronts Double at Final Weapon. Though Double tries to force X to surrender by torturing Iris with electric shocks and threatening a lethal voltage, Zero leaps in to rescue her while getting a hit on Double in the process. X is then able to destroy Double. The weakened but still alive Iris is left in the care of the tritagonist while X and Zero go on to confront General - now infected by the Sigma Virus, forcing him to fight them - and Sigma, who indicates that he's aware X has been receiving knowledge of the future and warns him that there is a heavy price to pay for meddling with the past. X and Zero destroy Sigma yet again, only for General to end up sacrificing himself to stop Final Weapon anyway. X, Zero, and the tritagonist return to Earth with Iris in tow, thankful that she and her brother at least are alive now.

We would learn in the X5 remake's third act that the light transmitting these visions to X is in fact his future Cyber Elf self from the Zero series, who witnessed these deaths as they originally happened and warns his past self about them so he can avert them. X5's third Act is themed on the Future, and possibly involves characters from the Zero series traveling back to the past from several possible futures - including Ciel, Copy X, Elpizo, Omega, and Weil. The villains would be traveling from futures where they won, while Ciel would be from the good future where Zero defeated all of them, the one that leads into the ZX series.

So, the X reboot series would also be a kind of stealth sequel to the X series. But considering that a good number of the original X games are of dubious quality to begin with, I would hope fans wouldn't mind them being soft-retconned into something bigger, more cohesive, and epic. And if you're wondering who this "tritagonist" I mentioned in the spoilered section is...

  Reveal hidden contents

In my prior post, I mentioned a character named Zeta who is teased at the end of A New Age. X2: The Maverick Wars introduces her as initially an ally of the X-Hunters who has been lead to believe X killed her "brother", Zero, and thus seeks revenge against him. X fights her, and depending on the player's skill either defeats her himself and takes her into custody or is himself defeated, only for Zeta to be captured by one of X's comrades anyway. Either way, X questions Zeta about her motives and her statement about being Zero's "sister". Upon learning that Zeta knows of "Z-Files" that can be used to rebuild Zero, X proposes a partnership between the two of them, showing her where the base keeps Zero's remains enshrined to gain her trust.

Zeta is slow to trust X of course, due to the X-Hunters manipulating her into believing that he's fighting to keep Reploidkind oppressed and that he destroyed Zero, but when X shares his memories of Zero with her and shows her the plight of the residents of Abel City who are still rebuilding after the first game and how they revere Zero as a hero, Zeta comes to realize that maybe X isn't the one trying to deceive her, here. She ends up turning against the X-Hunters and joining the Maverick Hunters by the end of the story, becoming quite close to X. Zeta thus becomes the series' tritagonist, forming a trio with X and Zero.

At the end of X4's story, Zeta expresses sympathy for Iris, being torn by her brother and her lover fighting. Zeta hopes that she doesn't find herself in a similar predicament. And, well, we all know what's coming in X5...

As for the whole deal about Zero and Zeta being siblings, the truth of the matter is that Zeta was created by another OC of mine, Dr. Alice Wily, who is Albert Wily's ex-wife. They would have married during their time at Robot University, only for the relationship to cool down considerably once Light and Wily had their falling out over the Double Gear system (ironically, she preferred Light and would have married him had he not convinced her to get together with Albert). Alice ended up leaving Wily, though she did have two children by him which she raised with Light's help (which in turn inspired Light to build some kids of his own). Her inspiration for creating Zeta would have come from two sources: collaborating with Light on the advanced AI project that leads to X's creation, and learning about Wily's plans for Zero. Alice created Zeta to have free will like X, but left her with a request: to help Zero. At first Zeta interpreted that to mean rebuilding Zero after he was destroyed, but upon learning of his own origins and of his connection to the Maverick Virus, Zeta comes to realize what her mother truly meant.

As for your three main things, I generally agree. I've played a good number of those remakes myself, so I understand what you mean.

I see. I should probably say at this point that I know absolutely nothing about the Megaman X series; I was more of a Battle Network/Star Force fan. In fact, every time I read the name "Colonel" in your description of how you'd implement the visions, my mind kept immediately thinking of the Battle Network character. 

 

Thanks.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

16 hours ago, Tediz64 said:

I'm gonna chime in here and say that what really needs to be discussed is price tag.

If they are simply porting over a game without too many alterations they (Nintendo, Microsoft,  and Sony) need to chill the f*** out with that price tag of $60.

Hey what did Microsoft do? All of their games you're getting for free through game pass. And outside of GamePass, the only release of theirs that feels suitable for this conversation is the Master Chief Collection. Five remastered games - each with fully functioning online multiplayer and four player online co op for a price tag of 40 dollars (when it's not on a sale). These are also the same guys letting you play 15+ old games on modern hardware by just putting the disc in. And your digital XBLA purchases from that long ago tend to work too without needing to be purchased again - provided there's no rights issue with the publisher.

But yeah, Nintendo has been a concern lately in this department. Wii and Wii U games being released for more money than they costed at launch. When Pikmin 3 deluxe released, Nintendo tried to sneakily delist the Wii U's $20 version and only put it back after getting caught. I checked to see if Skyward Sword is still on the Wii U eshop for the same price, it is. And this year's fall game is a remaster of a DS pokemon game. And I know it's not nintendo but the SMT Nocturne remaster being full priced while adding absolutely nothing - and even carving out a piece of content to sell back as DLC. C'mon. 

I try not to stress about the exact price of games though. Because every person is different as far as what amount of money is too much or too little for a product. I saw folks looking at Metroid Dread and asking "can a 2D game justify 60 dollars", and it makes my mind snap. That game is New. And better than whatever trash you're playing. Of course it's worth sixty dollars.

[Acacia Sgt]

Reminds me of one of the current complains of SE's Pixelated FF collection. For what amounts as just a graphical retool of the games but keeping everything else intact (to the point this is like the one remake/port of the original FF that brings back spell charges after they switched to MP), they think the prince could be lower. Or they justify as being the cost of having done all that graphical stuff... and perhaps any further tweaks like bug fixing. Because sometimes, porting the original as-is isn't good if they remain as buggy and glitched as they were way back when.

[Interdimensional Observer]

2 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

And I know it's not nintendo but the SMT Nocturne remaster being full priced while adding absolutely nothing - and even carving out a piece of content to sell back as DLC. C'mon. 

It is a lazy port -although license makes Dante as DLC in all versions understandable (and Raidou who replaces him is the same in gameplay). And yet, Atlus has already put it on sale twice so far, and it hasn't been six months since release yet.

As was the case with the 3DS, if Nocturne is anything to go by, only a fool or physical fan should buy an Atlus game on Switch at release.

[𝐅𝐞𝐧𝐫𝐢𝐞𝐥]

On 7/29/2021 at 6:44 PM, henrymidfields said:

So yeah, provided that ports of old games remain readily accessible I think future remakes should generally be bolder, and designers should be less hesitant to shake things up.

as long as there's not too much shaking, because otherwise there's good chances to mess up and ruin an iconic title.

for example, BluePoint Studio did a very good job with Demon's Souls.

on the other hand, Square's FF7R is overall okeish in terms of gameplay, while the story ended up giving mixed feelings to the fans. plus, those who followed FF7's compilation through the years should already be aware that FF7R isn't actually a remake in the true sense of the word, but rather a sort of sequel.

in any case, if an old title gets entirely reworked gameplay and different story development compared to the original, for me that's not a remake, but rather a reimagination. wich is not a bad thing by any means( at least, not always ), but at the same time is not in the same category of a remake/remaster, and obviously shouldn't be compared as such.

 

in my opinion, a good remake is one that does not alienate its own fanbase, but rather it keeps and eventually expands the original story elements in a respectful way, while also enhancing the visuals and gameplay of the old version if there's a chance to do so.

[AnonymousSpeed]

"Final Fantasy 7 Remake is actually the first five hours of Final Fantasy 7 except 30 hours."

On 7/29/2021 at 12:44 PM, henrymidfields said:

Instead, I wanted the story and worldbuilding of Koholint to be expanded way beyond the original, and make the characterizations deeper, the history richer, and the story experience as epic as Skyward Sword.

Part of what makes Link's Awakening great is how brisk and unintrusive the story is though. It's very charming, doesn't overstay its welcome and has just enough elements of surreal mystery for flavor, but trying to turn it into some elaborate mystery thriller would have probably harmed the game overall. Facade is my favorite enemy in all of Zelda and I don't think my perception of him would be helped by an attempt to "deepen" him.

These games aren't lacking in substance and don't need to be bloated by superfluous narrative content.

At the same time I do kind of agree that remakes should make big changes. Maybe if it's a remake of an old NES game like Gaiden then that isn't necessary, because the original is so clunky and crusty that it's a massive improvement just to make it a smooth game that's easy to interface with. However, for the most part you can achieve "quality of life" features with emulation and if all a remake is going to add is something patches exist for, there's not much actual benefit to the remake's existence.

On 7/30/2021 at 5:36 AM, Lord_Brand said:

Hmm...my Mega Man X remake (or reboot) series was gonna implement visions of the future X was going to receive from a strange light in X2, X3, and X4, which would warn him that certain individuals are about to die, giving X a chance to avert those deaths.

C'mon man. Ya gotta kill people. Mega Man X has a story that, where it does come it (the games were originally platformers after all), is highly melodramatic. Ya gotta keep that drama.

On 7/30/2021 at 12:48 AM, vanguard333 said:

With Final Fantasy 7 Remake, only two of the original game's main twists have become this famous: Sephiroth is the main villain, and Aerith dies. For both those twists, the game pretty much acts as if the player knows them already. But, almost as if to compensate, the game places an increased emphasis on the twists that aren't so famous, such as the following:

That's pretty clever actually, I will concede that.

***

I don't actually buy this idea that Shadow Dragon is a "too faithful" 1:1 remake. It added the weapon triangle, swapped weapon level for weapon ranks, changed how weight works, armor knights and hunters can promote now, Wolf and Sedgar break the game, tons of classes have been redesigned or changed to their modern incarnations, using staves grants experience, ballisticians have been totally reworked into a class unlike any other in the series, you can get Falcon Knights through online features (not that you'd want to)- there's the reclassing system which lets you turn almost everyone into a DracoKnight. Heck, as much maligned as the systems are, the gaiden chapters and generics (and even Nagi) are legitimate efforts to prevent softlocking and they totally change how the game can be played.

[vanguard333]

2 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

That's pretty clever actually, I will concede that.

***

I don't actually buy this idea that Shadow Dragon is a "too faithful" 1:1 remake. It added the weapon triangle, swapped weapon level for weapon ranks, changed how weight works, armor knights and hunters can promote now, Wolf and Sedgar break the game, tons of classes have been redesigned or changed to their modern incarnations, using staves grants experience, ballisticians have been totally reworked into a class unlike any other in the series, you can get Falcon Knights through online features (not that you'd want to)- there's the reclassing system which lets you turn almost everyone into a DracoKnight. Heck, as much maligned as the systems are, the gaiden chapters and generics (and even Nagi) are legitimate efforts to prevent softlocking and they totally change how the game can be played.

I agree that it is pretty clever. It's probably what I would do if I were told to remake a game where some of its plot twists have become common knowledge: put an increased focus on the ones that aren't quite so famous.

To be honest, I do agree with everyone who complains about the plot-time-ghost things (I'm not far enough in the game to know what they're called) and how the game turns out to be more of a stealth-sequel than an actual remake, though my perspective isn't as a fan, but as someone who knows about the Final Fantasy series but has never played an FF game before, as I thought a remake of 7 would be a good starting point, so getting some kind of stealth-sequel kind-of alienates me from some of what's in the game.

***

As for Shadow Dragon, that's a great point: I think people do tend to forget a lot of the additions that Shadow Dragon made just because the script and levels were kept the same. One addition that I particularly enjoyed was the prologue added to the beginning of normal mode; I thought it added a lot to ease players in and also make Marth more endearing, as we actually get to see him react to Gra's betrayal and the fall of Altea.

[Perkilator]

I think the ideal remake should cross a fine line between keeping what people like about the original game while also reimagining it for today's audiences. In this case, Shadows of Valentia and Samus Returns come to mind.

[Lord_Brand]

10 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

C'mon man. Ya gotta kill people. Mega Man X has a story that, where it does come it (the games were originally platformers after all), is highly melodramatic. Ya gotta keep that drama.

There comes a point where it becomes monotonous and predictable. Why bother investing in characters if they're just gonna get killed off in the same game where they appear? Especially when they've had such little screen time and thus their deaths have such little impact? Screw that, I want more character development.

At any rate, I don't want to derail the topic with discussions about my remake project, I was just using it as an example of a more drastic remake (or reboot) in the vein of FF7R. Any further discussion about my project in specific should be done through PMs or in my MMX remake topic, once I create it.

Edited August 1, 2021 by Lord_Brand

[vanguard333]

2 hours ago, Perkilator said:

I think the ideal remake should cross a fine line between keeping what people like about the original game while also reimagining it for today's audiences. In this case, Shadows of Valentia and Samus Returns come to mind.

I don't know about Samus Returns (as I haven't played it), but I have to disagree about Shadows of Valentia, since I consider it a remake that doesn't walk across that fine line but instead jumbles all over that line and instigates a war between both sides of the line.

[Lord_Brand]

23 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Reminds me of one of the current complains of SE's Pixelated FF collection. For what amounts as just a graphical retool of the games but keeping everything else intact (to the point this is like the one remake/port of the original FF that brings back spell charges after they switched to MP), they think the prince could be lower. Or they justify as being the cost of having done all that graphical stuff... and perhaps any further tweaks like bug fixing. Because sometimes, porting the original as-is isn't good if they remain as buggy and glitched as they were way back when.

Yeah, all I want Final Fantasy-wise right now is just a clean collection of the first six games for Switch with bugs fixed, graphics updated, and maybe some new content. I don't know why SE is so stupid about these things.

[Gordin]

Personally from the fire emblem remakes, I liked new mystery the most. It added new maps, new plot points and story, an avatar, improved the gameplay, and more characters. It's basically just expanding on the world, story, and gameplay, while keeping most of what's already there. I want more remakes like New Mystery. 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Gordin

[henrymidfields]

6 hours ago, Gordin said:

Personally from the fire emblem remakes, I liked new mystery the most. It added new maps, new plot points and story, an avatar, improved the gameplay, and more characters. It's basically just expanding on the world, story, and gameplay, while keeping most of what's already there. I want more remakes like New Mystery. 

Man, I've missed that one cause of the lack of localization AND being one of the few DS games with the stupid region lock.

[Samz707]

For me, it depends because there's a very thin line between "Modernization" and either "Casualization" or "Trend-following".

I guess a good example is Tomb Raider Anniversary, A large chunk of it is Modernization, however all of the human boss fights were replaced with Quick-Time Events (Trend following) and while this was probably mostly due overall to the game having to be rushed out, almost every level in the game is simplified and one level is practically missing. (Literally it's last two rooms were just bolted onto a previous level.)

While a controversial one, I love Twin Snakes, MGS2 was already mostly just enhanced MGS1, so Twin Snakes is just (For the most part) MGS1 on the MGS2 Engine, this results in some easier bits but the only real section that was cut down on was actually pointless tedious backtracking that just existed to prolong the game's run time. (Which the game lets you skip with a bit of exploration.), Obviously the cutscenes are another story but at least gameplay-wise, it honestly holds up IMO for the most part, it's actually kinda arguably too faithful.

As much as I hate FE6's balance (So much I've actually given up on beating and am just watching the rest of the game), I do think a "Classic" mode should probably exist optionally for a remake that has the enemy spawns and such from it. (That or a NON TIMED English translation of the GBA version to release somewhat alongside it.)

I guess for an example of a Remake I outright hate, Metro 2033: Redux.

It's built on Last Light's engine, for reference, imagine if we got an FE7 Remake....but it was Awakening in almost every way, except Ballista's returned (Similar balance and such and maybe even throwing in child units.), it doesn't play at all like 2033 , it plays like a fan-conversion mod to put 2033 into Last Light, anything unique from 2033 that Last Light removed is almost certainly removed or simplified. (They also took down the original and only give it away for free on the Metro series Anniversary events.)

So the result is a much easier, much more boring game that's less-balanced than the original and feels more like playing it's inferior sequel than actually playing the original.

 

I can't speak on the faithfulness of Echoes (Aside from Turnwheel, which I kinda hate more because this lead to Divine Pulse in 3H.) but it at least seems to try to keep alot of the unique factors from Gaiden, rather than just re-using say, how promotion works from Awakening/Fates and getting rid of Cantors and just having Ambush spawns instead.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Samz707