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Story tropes that you generally hate, but specific exceptions you like/love/at least hate less


henrymidfields
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So there are a lot of tropes that grinds our gears, whether it is too cliche, too offensive, or too annoying...except for this one example you saw. Either it was just too hilarious to be riled up about it, it was handled exceptionally well and the character became all the more badass/compelling/sympathetic for it, you saw the logic and the author's point behind and found it thought-provoking etc.

Conversely there may be classic tropes that you love. But for some reason, you hate, cringe, groan, for this particular trope's example or even lodged a complaint against the broadcaster/producer.

TV Tropes have a page for this called Trope Enjoyment Loophole.

So any examples of story tropes that you normally hate, but you at least did not mind (or even liked/loved/admitted made the story stronger) for that example in question?
Do you also have story tropes that you normally love, but in this particular instance you hated?

Normally hate, but with an exception I like:
Hate is a massive stretch, but I generally dismiss J-Pop (standalone or as a theme song for movies etc) as something outside of my musical interests. Especially more recent ones, and those that don't sound distinctively Japanese. Even though I am Japanese. Except for the very same kind of songs used in Tokyo Mirage Sessions - and I don't really know why.

Normally like but not this one:
I generally love classical music in movies, like Finlandia at the end of one of the Die Hard movies, but I'm not a fan of overused ones. Pachelbel's Canon with the wedding scenes in The Proposal (2009 film) was one - I'd really wished they used Elsa's Procession to the Cathedral (in Richard Wagner's Lohengrin; it's actually the song before the famous Wedding March)for the same scene.

Edited by henrymidfields
Added additional question, and my own answers
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Not sure if this even counts but I am really not a fan of characters like Jakob and Frederik, the comically overbearing and overprotective trope I find really just annoying. 

I thought I would feel the same about Dedue when 3H came out but it turns out that he became one of my favorite characters in that game, something I would of never expected considering in a way he does still fit that trope. It just has a lot more nuance. 

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Story Tropes that I Dislike But Have Exceptions:

1. I generally do not like Tsunderes, and if I do, generally I like them despite them being Tsunderes (a good example being Noelle from Black Clover: I like her character except when she's being a tsundere). However, there are a few cases where I enjoyed a story's use of the tsundere trope because the story tied their tsundere attitude to their character development; basically that they start off very tsuntsun (if I have the terms correct) and become very deredere (again if I have the terms correct) over the course of their character development. These examples include the following characters:

  • Midna from The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess.
  • Riley Miller from Valkyria Chronicles 4.

 

2. While I normally can enjoy a decoy protagonist, one thing that I'm not a fan of is something I call the "decoy villain" trope: a character that is built up to be the main threat and main antagonist with no sign of a villain that's higher up on the food chain, only for their spot as the big bad to be abruptly hijacked by someone else during the climax of the main plot. I find that it's not so much the trope itself so much as just how terribly it is normally done: they give all this attention to a character and the hero's inevitable conflict with them, only to immediately rip it away without any resolution and then try to get the audience to see this other person as the main villain, and most of the time, it feels like the story is trying to get us invested in a conflict, only to then laugh at us for getting invested. This is something where I have only seen one exception that I liked. Massive spoilers for the anime Black Clover:

Spoiler

The first main saga is all about the Clover Kingdom vs the Elf Tribe that the Clover Kingdom wiped out unprovoked 500 years ago, with the humans as the main characters and the elf tribe as the tragic villains. Note that these elves are not survivors: their bodies were killed and their souls were preserved by a forbidden spell, so now they are trying to revive their tribe by taking over human bodies and wiping out the Clover Kingdom. The main antagonist is seemingly an elf named Patry who greatly looked up to their leader, Licht, and believes that Licht casted the reincarnation spell. However, in the climatic final arc of the first main saga, it becomes very apparent that there is a lot more to the elf massacre than just what the elves know, and it is revealed that it was in fact a devil named Zagred that casted the reincarnation spell as part of his own plan, and Zagred is the true main villain.

The main reasons that I like this one are that the twist is actually clever this time around, Zagred slots in nicely to the story and answers a ton of mysteries, and the conflict between the main characters and Patry still does get resolved; Patry isn't just tossed aside by the plot the moment Zagred enters the picture.

 

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Normally hate, but with an exception I like:

The "Obsessed with the player character" type (Outright Yandere or just constant worship of the player.)

I feel like Faye manages to be an not-too bad (Granted, the Original Japanese version would have been awful for me.) version where it's played a bit more for Drama, it's held back by it's Japanese Script origins, but I actually like her, as opposed to Tharja who I very much only keep around due to her broken stats. (Because Clearly a Nosferatu user should have high Defense growths.)

 

 

Edited by Samz707
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  • 4 weeks later...

I have no preference; any trope, as long as it's done well, can look cool, and it can look like shit if it's done poorly. But, as I've touched on the subject recently: death fake-outs. It's always cheap. However, an example of this being executed well is Dragon Ball. From the beginning it's been established that Dragon Balls can revive people.

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The one trope I’ve always abhorred is when the bonds of friends save the day. I’ve always found it cheap and boring, with the emotional depth of a small puddle. I’ve tolerated it in the FE series because characters can die in combat and there’s usually enough tragedy to balance things out. Awakening is probably where I would say it got to annoying for my liking.

Edited by WraithReborn
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I generally find love triangles very banal. Either they're complete noncomitted and just dedicated to stringing the audience along, or they're very committed to one obvious choice and still just string the audience along. That being said I think Jane the Virgin handled it's love triangles quite well by being a generally well written show with evocative characters and a situation a bit more complicated than "oh no, two attractive people like me, whatever will I do?".

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I don't know if this counts, but I'm going to list it as an example:

I really dislike the evil sibling trope. But, the thing is, I can not actually think of a single example of this trope that I dislike; every example of an evil sibling that comes to mind: Azula to Zuko from Avatar: the Last Airbender, Langris to Finral from Black Clover, [Spoilers] to Shoto Todoroki from My Hero Academia, etc., are all well-written characters with interesting story arcs and compelling dynamics with their good sibling.

So, why do I dislike the trope? The simple answer is that it's just so overused. It appears in so many places that, if any of the main cast has a sibling, you can be almost certain that it's an evil sibling. And the overuse of it is made all the more apparent by just how few stories there are where one of the main characters has a good sibling that's actually a character. The only two examples I can think of good siblings in fiction are Asta & Yuno from Black Clover and Edward & Alphonse Elric from Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood. That's it.

So, yeah; it's a trope that I generally dislike, with specific exceptions being... almost every example of the trope.

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On 9/4/2021 at 2:16 PM, Jotari said:

I generally find love triangles very banal. Either they're complete noncomitted and just dedicated to stringing the audience along, or they're very committed to one obvious choice and still just string the audience along. That being said I think Jane the Virgin handled it's love triangles quite well by being a generally well written show with evocative characters and a situation a bit more complicated than "oh no, two attractive people like me, whatever will I do?".

Thinking on this a bit more, I do like 12th Night too, so I guess love triangles are less the issue for me and more love triangles when they're not the central focus of the story yet still dominate the narrative.

2 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I don't know if this counts, but I'm going to list it as an example:

I really dislike the evil sibling trope. But, the thing is, I can not actually think of a single example of this trope that I dislike; every example of an evil sibling that comes to mind: Azula to Zuko from Avatar: the Last Airbender, Langris to Finral from Black Clover, [Spoilers] to Shoto Todoroki from My Hero Academia, etc., are all well-written characters with interesting story arcs and compelling dynamics with their good sibling.

So, why do I dislike the trope? The simple answer is that it's just so overused. It appears in so many places that, if any of the main cast has a sibling, you can be almost certain that it's an evil sibling. And the overuse of it is made all the more apparent by just how few stories there are where one of the main characters has a good sibling that's actually a character. The only two examples I can think of good siblings in fiction are Asta & Yuno from Black Clover and Edward & Alphonse Elric from Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood. That's it.

So, yeah; it's a trope that I generally dislike, with specific exceptions being... almost every example of the trope.

Almost every Fire Emblem  protagonist  has a good sibling. Closest Fire Emblem  has come to pulling off an evil sibling  is Edelgard to Dimitri. And even then it's less sibling and more "someone  I knew for a few months as a kid". Berkut is also an evil cousin, but they don't  even mnow that until the end.

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7 hours ago, Jotari said:

Almost every Fire Emblem  protagonist  has a good sibling. Closest Fire Emblem  has come to pulling off an evil sibling  is Edelgard to Dimitri. And even then it's less sibling and more "someone  I knew for a few months as a kid". Berkut is also an evil cousin, but they don't  even mnow that until the end.

I can think of Ike & Mist, Ephraim and Erika, Chrom and his sisters, maybe Marth and Elice (I say "maybe" because her only role in both games is to be captured and in need of being rescued before being playable for only the last ten minutes of the game), and that's about it (I wouldn't count the Fates siblings because they can be allies or antagonistic depending on the route). Oh, I suppose there was also that brother of Celica that was added in Shadows of Valentia, but he doesn't really add anything to the plot.

But you are correct in that at least Fire Emblem has more examples than most media.

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On 8/2/2021 at 1:36 PM, vanguard333 said:

1. I generally do not like Tsunderes, and if I do, generally I like them despite them being Tsunderes (a good example being Noelle from Black Clover: I like her character except when she's being a tsundere). However, there are a few cases where I enjoyed a story's use of the tsundere trope because the story tied their tsundere attitude to their character development; basically that they start off very tsuntsun (if I have the terms correct) and become very deredere (again if I have the terms correct) over the course of their character development. These examples include the following characters:

  • Midna from The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess.
  • Riley Miller from Valkyria Chronicles 4.

 

On 8/2/2021 at 8:12 AM, Etrurian emperor said:

I have a very small tolerance for tsunderes but I quite enjoy Takumi.

You guys really are just a bunch of cowards. The appeal of a tsundere is in that contrast from tsun to dere. If the tsundere is calling you the stupidest man on earth then you’re doing something right. On the topic of Noelle though one thing I find adorable about her is the nickname she gives to Asta(“Bakasta” in Japanese while it’s “Dorksta” in the viz translation). I just find it cute. It’s that kind of development of familiarity that you don’t quite get with other character types. Then again I just like abrasive characters in general

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7 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

You guys really are just a bunch of cowards. The appeal of a tsundere is in that contrast from tsun to dere. If the tsundere is calling you the stupidest man on earth then you’re doing something right

Yeah and that gets on my nerve a lot. Especially if its the more unpleasant variety. 

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2 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Really? I find it cute honestly 

It can be. But only if the tsundere doesn't force their friend to jump through tsundere hoops in perpetuity. 

That's why I give Takumi a pass. Because once he's won over he tends to stay that way. While someone like say, Ishida Mitsunari keeps being an asshole to everyone no matter how close he is to them.

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2 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

It can be. But only if the tsundere doesn't force their friend to jump through tsundere hoops in perpetuity. 

What does this mean exactly? Cause no tsundere really does this if I’m interpreting it correctly. Yeah sure they’re still calling you an idiot but by that point it’s more of a nickname than anything derogatory. It’s like Sasuke calling Naruto “Loser” at the end of their fight. It’s a nickname as a way of showing endearment and respect born from familiarity. It’s the fact that they’re constantly abrasive is what makes the more rare dere moments all the more sweet. They may be calling you a moron but that’s not what they mean when they say that.

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8 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

What does this mean exactly? Cause no tsundere really does this if I’m interpreting it correctly. Yeah sure they’re still calling you an idiot but by that point it’s more of a nickname than anything derogatory. It’s like Sasuke calling Naruto “Loser” at the end of their fight. It’s a nickname as a way of showing endearment and respect born from familiarity. It’s the fact that they’re constantly abrasive is what makes the more rare dere moments all the more sweet. They may be calling you a moron but that’s not what they mean when they say that.

I mean making their friends continuously walk on eggshells and give them a tongue lashing whenever there's any real or imagined offence. Snapping at them to mask their true feelings and seemingly desiring proof of loyalty before opening up. Characters like Rita Mordio, Mitsunari, and occasionally Mythra.  

I don't really see much endearment or respect in the typical tsundere routine. I see it more as them prioritizing their personal whims and desire to shield themselves over group harmony and individual friendships. I mostly find it coming off as spoiled which can indeed be cute but can easily annoy if it gets taken too far. 

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35 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I mean making their friends continuously walk on eggshells and give them a tongue lashing whenever there's any real or imagined offence. Snapping at them to mask their true feelings and seemingly desiring proof of loyalty before opening up. Characters like Rita Mordio, Mitsunari, and occasionally Mythra.  

I don't really see much endearment or respect in the typical tsundere routine. I see it more as them prioritizing their personal whims and desire to shield themselves over group harmony and individual friendships. I mostly find it coming off as spoiled which can indeed be cute but can easily annoy if it gets taken too far. 

You know I feel like Luffy at the end of wholecake island where Sanji’s dad is asking “how can you like something like Sanji?” And Luffy just says “How come he’s just listing all your best qualities?” Cause like if a tsundere “takes it too far” I like that because it creates conflict in the story and I like conflict in my stories. Same goes for “desiring proof before opening up” that’s the whole reason tsunderes are so great because 1. It’s relatable and 2. It’s a trope that comes with its own built in character arc. To continue to reach out to someone who insists on pushing you away because you can’t bare to see them in anymore pain is the type of stories that I like because it shows that everyone is deserving of love and companionship. I dunno maybe it’s just my Narutard talking but I just love stories like that because no one deserves to bare that pain alone.

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I also don't like Tsundere, and when its done without much thought (which tends to be a lot in anime). Often, I find myself wanting the other person (who is stuck with the tsundere) to abandon the relationship because it starts coming off as an abusive relationship. The partner of this tsundere relationship is excepted to accept the abuse that the tsundere  character is constantly throwing at them that is usually unwarranted. So many times, I want the partner to just straight up call out the tsundere for their tsundere behavior and leave that person. Being yelled at, being verbally insulted constantly, or worst, being physically harmed by a person who supposedly likes you does not endear me to the slightest to the tsundere (even if it is meant to be played off as a joke). If I like a Tsundere character, it is usually in spite of their tsundere traits/pattern.

On 8/28/2021 at 9:44 PM, Ghost_06_ said:

But, as I've touched on the subject recently: death fake-outs. It's always cheap. However, an example of this being executed well is Dragon Ball. From the beginning it's been established that Dragon Balls can revive people.

Does that really count as a death fake-out then?

On to the prompt of the this forum. It's hard for me to say since what usually causes me to dislike a trope is that they are usually done poorly and/or it gets lazily & stupidly applied over and over without much thought.  

It's like, I can say I dislike the trope of the evil queen being jealous of the sweet and innocent princess, but at the same time, I'm fine with Disney's classic animated Maleficent and the evil queen from Snow White (though it probably because those stories are rather simplistic & I saw them early in my life)

EDIT: Oh I thought of one, but I'm not really sure it counts as a trope. So I just saw The Suicide Squad and I enjoyed Peacemaker, including his, "I cherish peace with all my heart. I don't care how many men, women, and children I need to kill to get it."

I bring this up that line specifically because, it makes me sad knowing that the Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman we got when being directed by Zack Synder were basically operating in that fashion. They cherish peace/justice so much that it didn't matter who was also killed in the crossfire.

Edited by Clear World
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47 minutes ago, Clear World said:

Does that really count as a death fake-out then?

... kinda? I was talking more about something like "Oh no, character X died". Eeveryone mourns for bit, but then the character is back after a few minutes/episodes/movies/etc.

50 minutes ago, Clear World said:

EDIT: Oh I thought of one, but I'm not really sure it counts as a trope. So I just saw The Suicide Squad and I enjoyed Peacemaker, including his, "I cherish peace with all my heart. I don't care how many men, women, and children I need to kill to get it."

I bring this up that line specifically because, it makes me sad knowing that the Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman we got when being directed by Zack Synder were basically operating in that fashion. They cherish peace/justice so much that it didn't matter who was also killed in the crossfire.

Completely different situations.

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1 hour ago, Ghost_06_ said:

... kinda? I was talking more about something like "Oh no, character X died". Eeveryone mourns for bit, but then the character is back after a few minutes/episodes/movies/etc.

Sure, though it's definitely not what a fake-out is. Death fake-outs are typically more as if someone is pretending or assumed dead, but then turns out to be alive. What you're more closely referring to is something like: death is not permanent.  

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I especially dislike a death fake out if you see it coming from miles away. Xenoblade 2 spend quite a lot of its ending on a character supposedly sacrificing herself but because it was super obvious this wouldn't stick my biggest emotion about her sacrifice was annoyance.  I knew she wouldn't stay dead, the game knew she wouldn't stay dead, and the game knew that I knew she wouldn't stay dead. It was just a gigantic waste of time, essentially filler that could be cut without the game losing anything at all. 

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9 hours ago, Clear World said:

Sure, though it's definitely not what a fake-out is. Death fake-outs are typically more as if someone is pretending or assumed dead, but then turns out to be alive. What you're more closely referring to is something like: death is not permanent.  

Eh, you're right.

------------

Another trope I don't like: dead people showing up and talking to the characters. One example I like, though, is Seliph's conversation with Sigurd and Deirdre at the end of Genealogy of the Holy War. It's needed to flesh out his character in a game where there aren't many possibilities for it.

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3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I especially dislike a death fake out if you see it coming from miles away. Xenoblade 2 spend quite a lot of its ending on a character supposedly sacrificing herself but because it was super obvious this wouldn't stick my biggest emotion about her sacrifice was annoyance.  I knew she wouldn't stay dead, the game knew she wouldn't stay dead, and the game knew that I knew she wouldn't stay dead. It was just a gigantic waste of time, essentially filler that could be cut without the game losing anything at all. 

You evidently enjoyed that game's story more than I did, because by the end I really couldn't care whether she stayed dead or not XD

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