Special Heroes: Perilous Seas

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, UNLEASH IT said:

Yeah, but it's against units that she'd kill anyway. This isn't swinging any matchups for her.

Brave Hector says hi.

[UNLEASH IT]

2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Brave Hector says hi.

Brave Hector cancels armor effectiveness so that isn't even a guarantee. She essentially has to rely on raw attack to kill him since she's most likely not activating a special.

[EricaofRenais]

Well I want Naesala since a have a fondness for ravens, I will try for Vika but only if there is no red.

[Ice Dragon]

46 minutes ago, UNLEASH IT said:

Brave Hector cancels armor effectiveness so that isn't even a guarantee. She essentially has to rely on raw attack to kill him since she's most likely not activating a special.

That's literally exactly why the Brave effect on the weapon exists.

Hector's Res is almost always lower than his Def, so Hinoka will have her full 77 effective Atk against him at +0+0 with no Asset using only her default kit with no Sacred Seal. A +10+10 Brave Hector with the Distant Def Sacred Seal has 46 effective Res (40 Res plus -6 Atk on Hinoka), resulting in Hinoka dealing 31×2 damage to his 57 HP. That's a dead Hector.

If Hector has +4 Res from activating A/R Far Save, Hinoka only needs +2 Atk from her Sacred Seal to still kill Hector in one round. Bonuses can be offset with bonuses of your own, and a Res Asset can be offset by an Atk Asset of your own.

EDIT: I totally forgot about weapon triangle advantage.

EDIT 2: Hinoka ends up with 76 effective Atk against Hector's 33 Res, resulting in 43×2 damage, which absolutely destroys Hector, but the Brave effect was absolutely necessary.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Ice Dragon

[UNLEASH IT]

3 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

That's literally exactly why the Brave effect on the weapon exists.

Hector's Res is almost always lower than his Def, so Hinoka will have her full 77 effective Atk against him at +0+0 with no Asset using only her default kit with no Sacred Seal. A +10+10 Brave Hector with the Distant Def Sacred Seal has 46 effective Res (40 Res plus -6 Atk on Hinoka), resulting in Hinoka dealing 31×2 damage to his 57 HP. That's a dead Hector.

And if Hector runs Mystic Boost? (Which is quite common). Y!Merric or any other NFU+Windsweep mage can rip through Hector while actually being good against other stuff. 

Edited August 3, 2021 by UNLEASH IT

[Ice Dragon]

53 minutes ago, UNLEASH IT said:

And if Hector runs Mystic Boost? (Which is quite common).

I have literally never seen Hector run Mystic Boost before, but sure.

+0+0 Hinoka [=Atk] with her base kit and no Sacred Seal has 70 Atk, which is lowered to 64 Atk after accounting for Maltet's effect, which is then boosted to 76 Atk by weapon triangle advantage (which I forgot to include previously).

+10+10 Hector [+Def] with Mystic Boost in the B slot and the Distant Def Sacred Seal has 59 Def, which is lowered to 55 Def by Hinoka's Def/Res Rein.

Hinoka ends up dealing 21×2 damage, leaving Hector with 16 HP. This means Hinoka needs only 8 more effective Atk to kill Hector, which comes out to 6 more Atk before weapon triangle advantage. The Death Blow Sacred Seal is already enough to do this.

So Hector is still dead, and the deadness increases with investment in Hinoka.

EDIT: If Hector has 1 stack of Caduceus Staff on him, Hinoka needs 81 Atk before weapon triangle advantage to one-round kill him without a Special. That means 17 Atk over her base hit with no Sacred Seal, where evening the field with +10+10 merges and Dragonflowers and adding an Atk Asset already takes care of 9 of those points, and that's still with no Sacred Seal.

But if you're really worried about a Mystic Boost Hector [+Def] with Caduceus Staff support, just run the Heavy Blade Sacred Seal and delete him with Deadeye. +0+0 Hinoka with no Asset only needs 7 more Atk to activate Heavy Blade against a +Atk Hector and only 4 more Atk to activate it against a +Def Hector.

EDIT 2: Of additional note, if Hector is running a Far Save set, he's almost certainly running +Res and not +Def, so you should actually have way more leeway than this.

EDIT 3: I'd also like to place a reminder here that this argument came from you saying that the Brave effect was unnecessary because Hinoka could already deal with blue units, and this shows that that is most definitely not the case. She absolutely needs the Brave effect to deal with Hector.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Ice Dragon

[XRay]

Blue Gustav: Majestic Love is okay. Ideal would have been better on a dual phase unit in my opinion with a better player phase presence, and Surtr's Menace looks pretty awful when compared to Saves.

Naesala: Sea's Shadow feels like just another version of Tibarn.

Vika: Sea Dark Wing feels a bit lacking as a support unit.

Feels like they just half assed everything on Hinoka: Fair Pirate Pair. Her Weapon relegates her to just being a counter pick for Arena Assault. Pushes are awful. DR Far Trace would have been the better choice, or at least give her Windsweep for safety. Def/Res Rein is nice. The Duo skill is too restrictive and you can only use it once.

[Roflolxp54]

Stall Ploy is cool on paper -- it appears to be blatantly marketed as an answer for Legendary Sigurd in AR. However, counters to Stall Ploy already exist:

• Odd Recovery
• Even Recovery
• Sara
• Restore+
• Harsh Command+

It also doesn't prevent use of Pathfinder.

Sure, Stall Ploy can help shut down the Sigurd+Nott AR-D archetype if it's not prepared for it but it's pretty much a huge bait. Similarly, Pirate Hinoka's Duo skill is already shut down by Duo Hindrance (oppressive AR-D teams use Valentine's Lif, New Year's Peony, or Dancer Sigurd). Pirate Hinoka is also likely going to be fairly underwhelming in the hands of the player (since CYL Hector exists and it's not uncommon for him to be using Mystic Boost seal, rendering 2 of Pirate Hinoka's bow's effects useless) and more obnoxious in the hands of AI (since chances are that you'd fight Pirate Hinoka in Arena modes since she is sporting 190 BST for being a Duo Hero and has a Prf weapon that has armorkiller, adaptive damage, AND easy potential to quad attack).

Edited August 3, 2021 by Roflolxp54

[Ice Dragon]

43 minutes ago, Roflolxp54 said:

(since CYL Hector exists and it's not uncommon for him to be using Mystic Boost seal, rendering 2 of Pirate Hinoka's bow's effects useless)

If it's the Sacred Seal that people are using on Hector instead of the B skill, then Hinoka has zero trouble dealing with that at all. Using the Mystic Boost Sacred Seal instead of the B skill means he can't run Distant Def, which means a +0+0 Hinoka [=] will one-round kill him with her base hit without a Sacred Seal even if her Atk buffs lag a bit behind his Def buffs, especially given the fact that bulkier Hector builds typically run +Res instead of +Def.

She has the Brave effect against blue opponents literally just to deal with Hector.

And if you're afraid of Caduceus Staff, there's always Windsweep for that if you don't want to try to stack Atk.

 

2 hours ago, XRay said:

Naesala: Sea's Shadow feels like just another version of Tibarn.

Naesala is so, so much better than Tibarn. First off, +Spd Pirate Naesala has more Atk than +Atk vanilla Tibarn. And I really don't think I need to bring up any other points after that.

 

2 hours ago, XRay said:

DR Far Trace would have been the better choice, or at least give her Windsweep for safety.

Even if it is better, Windsweep is not a premium skill. We already have it available from Joshua in the Grail pool without needing a 5-star promotion, and we're getting another source from Lifis, who will also be in the Grail pool. Giving the skill to too many premium units wastes skill slots that could have been spent giving out actual premium skills.

Additionally, D/R Far Trace is simply not necessary and would honestly be a waste of a skill because the literally the only ranged flier in the game that targets the lower of Def and Res is this Hinoka. Heck, even D/R Near Trace would be a stretch because only Echoes Palla would actually care about it over other Trace options, as fast dragons still prefer S/R Near Trace, and the currently existing slow dragons have no business using Trace skills in the first place due to the lack of a guaranteed follow-up.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Ice Dragon

[Tybrosion]

Stats in picture form [SPOILERS]:

Spoiler

Hinoka & Camilla
Super Asset(s): Atk, Spd, Def
Super Flaw(s): HP

Surtr
Super Asset(s): none
Super Flaw(s): Atk, Spd, Def

Vika
Super Asset(s): Spd, Res
Super Flaw(s): HP, Def
*Spd/Res Solo 3 is the 4* unlock

Naesala
Super Asset(s): Atk, Spd
Super Flaw(s): Res
*Stall Ploy has no inherit restrictions

Lifis
Super Asset(s): none
Super Flaw(s): Def
*Windsweep 3 is the 4* unlock.

 

[XRay]

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Naesala is so, so much better than Tibarn. First off, +Spd Pirate Naesala has more Atk than +Atk vanilla Tibarn. And I really don't think I need to bring up any other points after that.

Yes, I know he is faster, has higher Atk, does not rely on guaranteed follow-ups, etc., but I do not see the unit doing anything different from the Tibarns in practice. He is nice as a Galeforcer and can run even run Windsweep to pick on armor units, but I do not see that being super relevant, and as a raw damage nuke as shown in the video, he is less relevant in that regard as ranged units can do that safer and easier. Like, Ingrid is great and all and does not hit like a wet noodle compared to other lance Firesweepers, but she is already outclassed by ranged Firesweepers for most purposes.

5 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Additionally, D/R Far Trace is simply not necessary and would honestly be a waste of a skill because the literally the only ranged flier in the game that targets the lower of Def and Res is this Hinoka. Heck, even D/R Near Trace would be a stretch because only Echoes Palla would actually care about it over other Trace options, as fast dragons still prefer S/R Near Trace, and the currently existing slow dragons have no business using Trace skills in the first place due to the lack of a guaranteed follow-up.

It is not a waste of a skill when plenty of other units can carry SR Far Trace and this is the only unit that can make use of DR Far Trace. Makes no sense other than profit to put DR Far Trace on another unit down the line who may or may not even use it properly just to inherit the skill back onto this unit.

[Baldrick]

18 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Also maybe Askr shouldn't have festivals celebrating people who rape, pillage and burn for a living? 🙃

To be fair, most of the actual pirates in the festival are Robin Hood types or sailors down on their luck. Lifis is the first one who’s actually a remorseless pillager of villages.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, XRay said:

Makes no sense other than profit to put DR Far Trace on another unit down the line who may or may not even use it properly just to inherit the skill back onto this unit.

It makes no sense to implement D/R Far Trace ever, actually. They weren't going to give it to Duo Hinoka because it's literally useless on any unit other than her, and they aren't going to give it to anyone else as a throwaway skill because it's literally useless on any unit other than Duo Hinoka.

There is no profit to be gained from the skill because it is completely worthless as skill fodder.

It can be made into a "bargain Trace" skill that wastes one of its stat effects simply as a means to get Canto, but this would not be profitable. If it's added on a 4-star unit, then it devalues all other Trace skills by being "good enough" for non-whales, and if it's added on a 5-star unit, it will never be worth pulling for over another more functional Trace skill except for the single copy you'd need to give to Hinoka.

D/R Far Trace is never going to happen.

[XRay]

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

It makes no sense to implement D/R Far Trace ever, actually. They weren't going to give it to Duo Hinoka because it's literally useless on any unit other than her, and they aren't going to give it to anyone else as a throwaway skill because it's literally useless on any unit other than Duo Hinoka.

There is no profit to be gained from the skill because it is completely worthless as skill fodder.

It can be made into a "bargain Trace" skill that wastes one of its stat effects simply as a means to get Canto, but this would not be profitable. If it's added on a 4-star unit, then it devalues all other Trace skills by being "good enough" for non-whales, and if it's added on a 5-star unit, it will never be worth pulling for over another more functional Trace skill except for the single copy you'd need to give to Hinoka.

D/R Far Trace is never going to happen.

If they make adaptive damage more available and easy to use in the future, then there will certainly be a stronger demand for stuff like Lull Def/Res and DR Far Trace. While I do not see adaptive damage being a super common every-unit-has-it thing like Desperation or Guard, I do think it will eventually be about as common as units with dual phase follow-up.

[Ice Dragon]

50 minutes ago, XRay said:

If they make adaptive damage more available and easy to use in the future, then there will certainly be a stronger demand for stuff like Lull Def/Res and DR Far Trace. While I do not see adaptive damage being a super common every-unit-has-it thing like Desperation or Guard, I do think it will eventually be about as common as units with dual phase follow-up.

There is literally a total of 4 weapons in the game that have adaptive damage, not including the breath shared effect:

• Felicia's Felicia's Plate, added February 2018
• Annette's Crusher, added March 2020
• Echoes Palla's Ladyblade, added June 2021
• Duo Hinoka's Mermaid Bow, added August 2021

"If" they make adaptive damage more available is already a stretch.

And even then, Lull Def/Res at least has an argument due to the fact that more than half of all dragons (22 out of 41) are able to inherit the skill and more than half of all units with access to adaptive damage (24 out of 45) are able to inherit the skill. Add to that the fact that female Kana in particular has a synergy for the skill that cannot be duplicated with any other Lull due to its interaction with her weapon's effect.

D/R Far Trace is usable by a grand total of 1 of the 45 units with access to adaptive damage, and the only thing Duo Hinoka loses by running a different Far Trace is 3 damage against units with more Res than Def. Whoop-dee-fucking-doo.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Ice Dragon

[XRay]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

There is literally a total of 4 weapons in the game that have adaptive damage, not including the breath shared effect:

• Felicia's Felicia's Plate, added February 2018
• Annette's Crusher, added March 2020
• Echoes Palla's Ladyblade, added June 2021
• Duo Hinoka's Mermaid Bow, added August 2021

"If" they make adaptive damage more available is already a stretch.

And even then, Lull Def/Res at least has an argument due to the fact that more than half of all dragons (22 out of 41) are able to inherit the skill and more than half of all units with access to adaptive damage (24 out of 45) are able to inherit the skill. Add to that the fact that female Kana in particular has a synergy for the skill that cannot be duplicated with any other Lull due to its interaction with her weapon's effect.

D/R Far Trace is usable by a grand total of 1 of the 45 units with access to adaptive damage, and the only thing Duo Hinoka loses by running a different Far Trace is 3 damage against units with more Res than Def. Whoop-dee-fucking-doo.

Seems like they might be making adaptive damage more frequently now, so I would not count it out so soon. In the grand scheme of things, 3 damage is not a big deal, but you might as well let people who want to optimize and can afford to do so spend money on it.

Right now, she already looks very unappealing as a Duo unit with so many conditions and requirements holding her back, not to mention how small the payoff is given and how niche that makes her. The least they could do is to make her look good and complete rather than having most things half-baked. I want to spend my Orbs on her, but they are making her a very hard sell.

[SockPuppet]

This batch of pirates is okay. I think I preferred last year a bit more? Lifis is probably my favorite behind Naesala. Vika is cute though, and I am glad Hinoka is the lead of the duo. Surtr… not feeling it at all.

[Othin]

I love how Lifis gets to be the focus of the Paralogue.

And he mentions Safy!!! Really hoping she finds a way to get in as well. 

[Tybrosion]

Meanwhile, with Vika:

Spoiler

feelsbadman.jpg

[Jave]

Say what you want about how good or bad you did on this banner, but I don't think I've ever seen a summoning session like this before: