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Echoes Gender-lock Removal Mod v2.1 (Updated with Custom Models!)


LJ_Reflet
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(Note: Please check my post at the bottom of page 2 regarding the update with custom models)

Hey guys ! After several months since releasing the first release of this project, I decided to finally get back into working on this mod again and I'm very excited to say that it is finally complete !

Starting from this release, female Soldiers and male Clerics have finally been included in the mod as well as other additions and changes !

With the release of v2.0 of this mod, this gender-lock removal mod for Echoes will include:

v2.0 changes/additions from v1.0

  • Male Cleric and Female Soldier classes are now added (Male Cleric spell lists information below)
  • Personal victory poses now work in new classes !
    • This only applies for Villagers and Mercenaries (base game is like this as well)
    • Ram Villagers will be borrowing victory poses from other characters for their Pegasus pose
    • Mercenaries + Atlas will use the generic pose for Pegasus/Falcon Knight, but personal pose for Cleric/Saint
    • Conrad will use the Harrier pose
  • Ram Villager Triangle Attack now has voice clips !
  • Male and Female Mage now have equal base stats and growths (information below)
  • Custom textures for select characters ! (May add more in future updates)
  • Vanilla textures have been changed/switched (not edited) for certain characters to better suit their color palette in new classes
  • Removed unneeded extra files from original release

What the overall mod includes:

  • Complete gender-lock removal, allowing for male units to access Pegasus Knight and Cleric and female units to access Mercenary, Archer, and Soldier
  • Conrad's base class has been changed to Pegasus Knight to improve performance
    • His base level has been changed to level 11, one level away from promotion
  • Ram Villager boys will all have Triangle Attack ! (Now with added voice clips as of v2.0 !)
    • Ram Villagers and Whitewings can also use Triangle Attack together (ie. Triangle Attack can work with Gray, Tobin, and Palla in formation)
  • All base stats and growths will remain the same as the classes' original counterparts
  • Overclasses do not work with new classes unfortunately
  • Easter Eggs:
    • Clive will use Clair's helmet and mount as a Pegasus Knight
    • Conrad has a brand new Invoke spell with male Falcon Knights

Male Cleric Spell Lists

Spoiler
  • Tobin
    • Physic (lvl 6 Cleric)
    • Entrap (lvl 5 Saint)
  • Gray
    • Expel (lvl 10 Cleric)
    • Freeze (lvl 5 Saint)
  • Kliff
    • Invoke Archer (lvl 5 Cleric)
    • Silence (lvl 10 Cleric)
    • Rewarp (lvl 6 Saint)
  • Luthier
    • Generic Cleric spell list*
  • Boey
    • Generic Cleric spell list*
  • Saber
    • Seraphim (lvl 5 Cleric)
    • Physic (lvl 5 Saint)
    • Expel (lvl 10 Saint)
  • Kamui
    • Freeze (lvl 6 Cleric)
    • Fortify (lvl 5 Saint)
  • Jesse
    • Fortify (lvl 7 Cleric)
    • Warp** (lvl 4 Saint)
  • Atlas
    • Rescue (lvl 7 Cleric)
    • Anew** (lvl 12 Saint)
  • Deen
    • Silence (lvl 6 Cleric)
    • Physic (lvl 5 Saint)
  • Conrad
    • Seraphim (lv 5 Cleric)
    • Rescue (lvl 10 Cleric)
    • Invoke (Male) Falcon Knight (lvl 5 Saint)
  • Nomah
    • Generic Cleric spell list*

* Base-Mage male units (Luthier, Boey, and Nomah) will have generic Cleric spell lists to mirror the fact that base-Cleric female units have generic Mage spell lists.

**All units not listed will have generic Cleric spell lists.

Updated Mage Base Stats/Growths

Spoiler
  • Base stats
    • HP: 24
    • ATK: 8
    • SKL: 2
    • SPD: 7
    • LCK: 3
    • DEF: 3
    • RES: 9
  • Growth rates
    • HP: -5%
    • ATK: 5%
    • SKL: -
    • SPD: 5%
    • LCK: -
    • DEF: -5%
    • RES: 1%

 

Bugs (from v1.0)

  • Female units in originally male-locked classes appear to be "floating" (their feet don't touch the ground)
  • Male units' feet reach past the mount stirrups as Pegasus/Falcon Knights.
  • Female units' feet cannot reach the inside of the stirrups as Bow Knights
  • Arrow quivers--for some reason--do not appear on female units in the Archer class line
  • Conrad's cape clips right through him if he crits as a Falcon Knight (due to using his Gold Knight armor)

Changes I would like to see:

  • Proper access to DLC overclasses
  • Adding in more custom textures
  • If ever possible, custom models for new classes

 

~*~*~

And with that here's a link to the download ! Hope you guys will enjoy the mod !

Download

~*~*~

Screenshots:

Spoiler

Kliff_Pegasus.jpg.78b0370c187b43b80377d45de1a6a510.jpg

Kliff - Pegasus Knight + Custom texture

Tobin_Pegasus.jpg.2c809262e7308f4762c1ab7193090e67.jpg

Tobin - Pegasus Knight + Custom texture

Faye_ArcherPose.jpg.4066d36dfdaa7b358ae262e879f38801.jpg

Faye - Archer

Faye_Soldier.jpg.268c5cc81ae47d68561e0681001462c9.jpg

Faye - Soldier

Clair_BowKnight.jpg.83a19ad0b1a880a36bf60b6595b71cc8.jpg

Clair - Bow Knight

Delthea_DreadFighter.jpg.967ac0525fb2460ca224ec1b1c61f755.jpg

Delthea - Dread Fighter

Conrad_Pegasus.jpg.20b4b90c2b3c3569c484b9a9c0d2582f.jpg

Conrad - Pegasus Knight + Custom texture (it has a matching mask !)

Tobin_ClericAnimation.jpg.ed6ed19c8d837d4522f86af0f79beb2e.jpg

Tobin - Cleric

MaleVillager_ClassChangeMenu.jpg.149316da12ca384f1c52d51082860172.jpg

Male Villager class change menu

FemaleVillager_ClassChangeMenu.jpg.3020eaaca36ff8a0d2cb48b57c056d26.jpg

Female Villager class change menu

 

 

Original post (v1.0):

Spoiler

 Hey guys ! So I’ve been working tirelessly on this project for a while now and I can confidently say it’s finally complete (I think LOL).

I’m gonna be 100% honest, but I am a complete noob to hacking and modding and I’m not kidding you when I say that just last week, I had absolutely 0 knowledge on modding LOL. However, I was so sick of gender-locks in FE that I decided to mess around with Paragon and created a mod with no class gender restrictions in SoV! (Btw a huge thanks to @thane98 for the help!)

This took a LOT of work, but I feel it was worth it in the end and I’m really excited for to test this mod out with a “beta” playthrough ! I’ve done a quick test for the mod by checking the promotion menu at the shrine, checked if their battle models and sprites appear properly on the maps, and if they can actually promote to a higher tier class from the new gender-lock-free class. Everything seems to work fine and I feel pretty ready to start a “beta” playthrough.

(UPDATE 2021/9/1: I actually completed my playthrough, results are a few comments below if you're curious to see how some units performed!)

However, here’s a few things about the mod/my planned playthrough:

  • I decided to not create a male Cleric class or a female Solider class because:
    • Creating spell lists for each male character would have been extremely tedious and difficult, and trying to get each character a proper battle model for the other classes was already painful enough LOL. On top that, I wouldn’t know which spells to give each character in order for the game to remain balanced. (If anybody is willing to help expand on this mod to create a male Cleric class, I would be more than happy to collab)
    • Personally, I’m not a fan of armored classes in general and usually bench armored units anyway, so I didn’t see the point of putting in effort on a class I won’t use—especially because this was initially made for personal use. Once again, I’m willing to collab if anyone wants to see a female soldier class as I am planning on sharing this mod if the test run goes well.
  • So in reality, all female units now have access to Mercenary and Archer, while all male units now have access to Pegasus Knight.
  • All growths and base stats remain the same as their original counterparts
  • I don’t believe overclasses will work with the mod
  • Each character retains their unique color palette in their new classes
  • Armor/Battle models for the new classes are borrowed from other classes. Information is down below in the spoiler
  • For this playthrough, I won’t be reclassing EVERY character, just characters that would see some benefit if given a different class that wasn’t available to them before (And I’m only using the maximum 3 pitchforks the game gives you; I will not be hacking more pitchforks into my inventory)
  • Unfortunately, characters cannot use their unique victory poses in the new classes
  • Alm and Celica cannot access these classes
  • yes you heard me fuckin right, female dread fighters exist
  • WHITEWING VILLAGER BOIZ HAVE TRIANGLE ATTACK TBH NO REGRETS
  • UPDATE 2021/9/1: I have edited the mod so that Conrad will appear as a Pegasus Knight and will be recruited at level 11 -- one level away from Falcon Knight promotion. This is to improve his performance.

Battle model information:

Spoiler
  • Male Pegasus Knight: Cavalier
  • Male Falcon Knight: Conrad’s unique Paladin battle model
    • Conrad is a different case. Conrad will use his Paladin armor in Pegasus Knight, and his Gold Knight armor in Falcon Knight. So yes, you can say Conrad has a unique battle model for Pegasus Knight HAHA
    • Also, here's a little easter egg I added: the villager boys will use the Whitewing sister mounts for both Pegasus and Falcon Knight! I found out they had matching color palettes (roughly) so I thought it'd be a neat idea to give them unique Pegasus mounts haha
    • Clive will use Clair's mount and wear her helmet accessory as well !
  • Female Archer: Villager
  • Female Sniper: Cavalier
  • Female Bow Knight: Paladin (mount will be the same as male Bow Knight mounts)
  • Female Mercenary: Pegasus Knight
  • Female Myrmidon: Mage (they will also use the shield accessory that comes with the male Myrmidon battle model)
  • Female Dread Fighter: Priestess
  • All units with unique battle models for any of these classes will retain their unique battle models in the new class

Changes/fixes I would like to make/see:

Spoiler
  • Male Cleric class with unique spell lists for appropriate units
  • Character-unique victory poses while in their new class
  • Possible access to overclass (though highly unlikely)
  • Texture/color palette edit for male Falcon Knight armor. Since all units will share Conrad’s Paladin armor in Falcon Knight, I would like to see some color variety to match each character’s usual color palette.
    • Mounts, however, were fine as each mount from the original female Pegasus Knight class came in various textures to match the character.

Bugs I have encountered from my first beta playthrough:

Spoiler
  • Female units in originally male-locked classes appear to be "floating" (their feet don't touch the ground)
  • Male units' feet reach past the mount stirrups on Pegasus/Falcon Knight. Same goes for female units and Bow Knight mounts as their feet cannot reach the inside of the stirrup. (it's kinda funny actually LOL)
  • Some spells or crits cause slight lag, especially enemy-only dark magic like Medusa, Death, and Mire. I've also seen lag if Seraphim or Nosferatu crit. Unsure if this is due to the mod or if this is how the game is in general.
  • If Conrad crits as a Falcon Knight, his cape goes right through him. It's not really a bug, it's just due to how capes are animated as something similar happens with Palla's hair naturally.
  • Not a bug, but if the villager boys use Triangle Attack, there are no voice clips during the animation.

 

(From original post before update - I was asking for suggestions for classes before my playthrough haha) :

Spoiler

Overall, I’m super excited to test this mod out and I’m hoping to share it with those who have been wanting to see a gender-lock-free Fire Emblem game outside of Fates if all goes well.

On that note—which units would you think would benefit from the now gender-lock-free classes? I would love some input on this first playthrough! Here’s some of my personal thoughts and theory crafting:

  • Out of the male villagers including Atlas, Kliff may be the best candidate for Pegasus Knight. He already has a high speed growth, and it’ll immediately fix his low base speed by boosting it up to 7. While lower than Mercenary’s base speed, he won’t have to compete with Gray as a Mercenary for swords and can be set apart from him with better movement. The downside is, he may not take advantage of his good defense growth and will end up with a 25% attack growth (compared to Clair’s 40% who joins a few chapters after Kliff).
  • Tobin also might be a great starter Pegasus Knight since he already has a pretty strong early game and can benefit from the extra movement. He’ll probably still be a better mage, but tbh Tobin’s just my favorite villager and I just wanna see him as a flier LOL
  • Lukas also may like Pegasus Knight ? If he promotes to Knight, he can use a pitchfork then hop on a Pegasus right after for better movement and speed while maintaining his strength and defense, but he might just be better off as a Dread Fighter. Lukas just probably wants to be reclassed out of Soldier tbh haha
  • Mae as a Dread Fighter might just break the game tbh. It’ll fix her movement problem in the late game, and I can’t imagine what havoc she’ll wreak if she gets her hands on a Lightning Sword.
  • Okay but imagine: Whitewing sisters, but DREADWING SISTERS
  • I was thinking about it, and maybe archer Faye may not be such a good idea LOL. Archer’s bases won’t do much to benefit her (as archer’s base speed is 2 and so is Faye’s) and classing her into archer means you’ll be losing out on her great spell list as a Cleric. BUT, at least it’ll be cool to have Faye: Devoted Heart in her actual home game LOL

Lmk your thoughts !

 

 

Edited by LJ_Reflet
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This looks super sick so far! A few thoughts:

I agree that Kliff would probably be a pretty great Pegasus. My other thought is to reclass Saber into one- people go nuts for Pegasus Knight Mae, but what if you could have a Pegasus who already had the defence to make it seriously work? Act 2 would be a joke.

Ladyblade on a dread fighter. That is all. Ok it’s actually not all, but yeah imagine something like dreadfighter delthea.

While I don’t have the experience or knowledge to contribute- or even to download and mod it for myself lol- I think the female soldiers at least would be cool. Mainly because I’m imagining Baron Tatiana.

But yeah I’m curious to see how this develops. We will watch your career with great interest.

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6 hours ago, Anathaco said:

This looks super sick so far! A few thoughts:

I agree that Kliff would probably be a pretty great Pegasus. My other thought is to reclass Saber into one- people go nuts for Pegasus Knight Mae, but what if you could have a Pegasus who already had the defence to make it seriously work? Act 2 would be a joke.

Ladyblade on a dread fighter. That is all. Ok it’s actually not all, but yeah imagine something like dreadfighter delthea.

While I don’t have the experience or knowledge to contribute- or even to download and mod it for myself lol- I think the female soldiers at least would be cool. Mainly because I’m imagining Baron Tatiana.

But yeah I’m curious to see how this develops. We will watch your career with great interest.

Thanks ! It took a lot of work LOL.

And yeah, I think I'm mostly set on using Kliff as a Pegasus Knight but I'll be kinda upset if I can't have my fave villager (Tobin) as my favorite class LOL (I would love to do 2 villager Peg knights, but we all know how desperately we need a mage in Act 1 LOL).

Saber tho -- that'd be an insane idea LOL. I'll keep that in mind -- like Saber's already good on his own but with the extra added resistance and movement ? Bruh LOL. And Ladyblade on a Dread Fighter is exactly what I had in mind HAHA.

Tbh, I feel like there are a few more female units that would enjoy the benefits that Soldier may offer (possibly Mathilda as well), so I probably will include a female Soldier class eventually haha.

I'm hoping to see that this mod will go smoothly, so that I could release it without worrying about adding any fixes

I'm also aiming to have at least one unit for each newly accessible class, so that's 1 pitchfork per class (I could have at least 2 male Pegasus Knights or 2 female Archers since the villagers are open). I'm mostly thinking Pegasus Lukas or Saber, Dread Fighter Mae, and I'm not too sure about who should be my female Archer, but maybe Delthea ? For the villagers, Kliff or Tobin for Pegasus, but I'm a hard maybe on Archer Faye cause I honestly see no benefit from it after some thinking LOL

Edited by LJ_Tenma
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7 hours ago, LJ_Tenma said:

Personally, I’m not a fan of armored classes in general and usually bench armored units anyway, so I didn’t see the point of putting in effort on a class I won’t use

Extremely based.

Make all three village boys into Pegasus Knights and triangle attack everything. It's such a niche and stupid skill, I demand to see it gimmicked.

To balance things out, pitchfork Clair into a mercenary and make Faye into an archer. We gotta have her actually use a bow at some point, right?

I unfortunately cannot offer any actual programming help, but I definitely applaud the effort here. I do recommend that one male cleric (priest, I guess) gets Entrap, since that spell is otherwise very unavailable. Maybe have Saint!Atlas learn fortify, since that spell is also quite rare.

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I do like the sound of this mod, but I have a couple of big questions.

First, where would you release the mod if you actually release it to the public?  I often look for mods on Gamebanana or GBATemp, but I'd be interested to know if you plan to release the mod on either of those sites or here or anywhere else.

Secondly, will you also release the .json file for the mod?  Just in case some of us might want to incorporate other modifications such as making the starting class of every character a villager or what-have-you.

 

And I'll say the only reason I'd be interested in seeing a female soldier class line would be for a possible challenge run.  Or maybe just to fulfill the prophecy of Catria's transformation into Thwomptria, for the meme of it.  No practical reason for it, though, the class line in some ways is even worse than the villager class because of the harsher terrain movement penalties.

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22 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Extremely based.

Make all three village boys into Pegasus Knights and triangle attack everything. It's such a niche and stupid skill, I demand to see it gimmicked.

To balance things out, pitchfork Clair into a mercenary and make Faye into an archer. We gotta have her actually use a bow at some point, right?

I unfortunately cannot offer any actual programming help, but I definitely applaud the effort here. I do recommend that one male cleric (priest, I guess) gets Entrap, since that spell is otherwise very unavailable. Maybe have Saint!Atlas learn fortify, since that spell is also quite rare.

HAHA, Yeah I'm just honestly more of a fan of speedier units rather than high defense/low speed

I'm ngl, while I was testing out the battle models on the villagers, I was highly HIGHLY tempted to make them all Pegasus Knights LOL. I'll keep this playthrough as close to vanilla as I could, then I definitely wanna try a Whitewing Village Boiz + Faye: Devoted Heart challenge right after HAHA.

I'll take note of the cleric/priest spell suggestions tho !

17 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

I do like the sound of this mod, but I have a couple of big questions.

First, where would you release the mod if you actually release it to the public?  I often look for mods on Gamebanana or GBATemp, but I'd be interested to know if you plan to release the mod on either of those sites or here or anywhere else.

Secondly, will you also release the .json file for the mod?  Just in case some of us might want to incorporate other modifications such as making the starting class of every character a villager or what-have-you.

1.) Yeah I was definitely thinking of Gamebanana, cause that's where I usually look for mods as well haha.

2.) I would be so happy to see people trying out challenges with this mod, but unfortunately I made this whole mod on Paragon and I don't believe Paragon exports mods as .json files (which is probably why I couldn't get my male Pegasus Knight mod on Awakening to overlap with the Gay Awakening mod). If there was a way to export Paragon mods as .json files, I would really appreciate it haha

17 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

And I'll say the only reason I'd be interested in seeing a female soldier class line would be for a possible challenge run.  Or maybe just to fulfill the prophecy of Catria's transformation into Thwomptria, for the meme of it.  No practical reason for it, though, the class line in some ways is even worse than the villager class because of the harsher terrain movement penalties.

HAHA Tbh that's probably more than enough reason for me to actually include a female soldier class LOL. I think I'll just get making it as I play through the game.

___

EDIT: So I just thought about it -- but would Clair would a good contender for Archer ? She has the highest speed growth in the game so she won't get hurt by the -5% speed growth modifier from the Archer class line, and her base 7 speed from being a natural Pegasus Knight can help salvage her from the heavy weight of bows. Also, her frailty won't be much of a problem anymore if she's sniping from a distance. Plus, she has pretty low attack so chip damage from afar sounds more ideal for her.

Also, I can't really think of anyone who would be a good candidate for a class change on Celica's route. She does lack cavaliers, but that's a unisex class anyway. The idea of Dread Fighter Mae sounds fun, but I realize that Celica's party is already loaded with mercenaries. Maybe Conrad ? (I mean I AM using his armor for the Falcon Knight class LOL)

Edited by LJ_Tenma
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9 hours ago, LJ_Tenma said:

2.) I would be so happy to see people trying out challenges with this mod, but unfortunately I made this whole mod on Paragon and I don't believe Paragon exports mods as .json files (which is probably why I couldn't get my male Pegasus Knight mod on Awakening to overlap with the Gay Awakening mod). If there was a way to export Paragon mods as .json files, I would really appreciate it haha

There was an export function in an older version of Paragon, but they took it out in the most recent version.  Hadn't realized this until you replied.

That said, I did a minor test myself and I think what I proposed isn't necessary.  I think just the raw modded files alone are enough, which obviously you'd already be sharing when you release the mod.  Another benefit to this is you can more easily make mods that'd normally conflict compatible with one another.  For example I mentioned making a modification for your mod where unit starting classes are changed because I saw a mod on Gamebanana that turned every unit into villagers - it would be a fairly simple matter (I imagine, anyway) to combine that mod with your mod and make every character a blank slate to try out their new alternate classes without needing Pitchforks.

9 hours ago, LJ_Tenma said:

EDIT: So I just thought about it -- but would Clair would a good contender for Archer ? She has the highest speed growth in the game so she won't get hurt by the -5% speed growth modifier from the Archer class line, and her base 7 speed from being a natural Pegasus Knight can help salvage her from the heavy weight of bows. Also, her frailty won't be much of a problem anymore if she's sniping from a distance. Plus, she has pretty low attack so chip damage from afar sounds more ideal for her.

Also, I can't really think of anyone who would be a good candidate for a class change on Celica's route. She does lack cavaliers, but that's a unisex class anyway. The idea of Dread Fighter Mae sounds fun, but I realize that Celica's party is already loaded with mercenaries. Maybe Conrad ? (I mean I AM using his armor for the Falcon Knight class LOL)

Archer is a good fallback class, so I'd say it wouldn't do Clair any harm.

And yeah, Conrad's probably a good choice considering his class isn't so good when a good chunk of maps in Celica's path at that point are swampy bogs or forested ruins, IIRC.  I guess maybe also Valbar just 'cuz he's a knight and he'd be better off if you slapped a pegasus onto that title - might even be a durable enough dude that effectiveness bonuses against him won't do too much damage.  Anyone else would really just be to shake up the dynamic of things/optimize the party.

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7 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

There was an export function in an older version of Paragon, but they took it out in the most recent version.  Hadn't realized this until you replied.

That said, I did a minor test myself and I think what I proposed isn't necessary.  I think just the raw modded files alone are enough, which obviously you'd already be sharing when you release the mod.  Another benefit to this is you can more easily make mods that'd normally conflict compatible with one another.  For example I mentioned making a modification for your mod where unit starting classes are changed because I saw a mod on Gamebanana that turned every unit into villagers - it would be a fairly simple matter (I imagine, anyway) to combine that mod with your mod and make every character a blank slate to try out their new alternate classes without needing Pitchforks.

I saw that mod as well and I think that'd make for a really interesting challenge run. And even if it weren't compatible, changing all characters' base classes is super simple on Paragon and I could even make a version of my own mod with that implemented as well haha.

7 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

Archer is a good fallback class, so I'd say it wouldn't do Clair any harm.

And yeah, Conrad's probably a good choice considering his class isn't so good when a good chunk of maps in Celica's path at that point are swampy bogs or forested ruins, IIRC.  I guess maybe also Valbar just 'cuz he's a knight and he'd be better off if you slapped a pegasus onto that title - might even be a durable enough dude that effectiveness bonuses against him won't do too much damage.  Anyone else would really just be to shake up the dynamic of things/optimize the party.

I feel like all the base-Soldier characters just really want a class change at this point LOL. Fortunately, I think transitioning from Soldier to Pegasus is a pretty good change as they could retain their high attack and defense while as a flier while patching up their speed even if it's just a little bit.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Okay after some thought, I think I've made my decisions for the characters that will be given a reclass HAHA. Any more input and opinions would be highly appreciated tho LOL.

  • Pegasus Knight Tobin
    • Even though Kliff has more fitting stat growths and would appreciate the base speed boost, I think I'm gonna go with Tobin solely for favoritism LOL. I just really like Tobin and as I said in my original post, his early game is really strong and flying could really increase his performance.
  • Archer Clair
    • Since Tobin will be a Pegasus Knight, I'm probably obligated to make Kliff a mage since that leather shield map in the beginning happens before Clair arrives and I'll need the magic. That being said, I'll be missing out on an extra archer alongside Python. From my past experience with Clair, she has a poor start with thin defenses and terrible combat, so ranged chip damage would be more ideal for her. Her role as a Ridersbane user could easily be replaced with Tobin now that he'll be a Pegasus Knight and has a head start to gain more levels and bring up his stats to outperform Clair as a Pegasus Knight.
  • Probably won't do it for this playthrough but: Archer Delthea
    • Same as Clair, but this would at least give her some use for her late join.
  • Pegasus Knight Lukas
    • 2 fliers is always a good thing, right? LOL. Lukas is renown to be the best candidate for pitchforks due to his base class being bad. Most people swear by Dread Fighter Lukas since it fixes his speed and movement, but what if he gets flying on top of that? Lukas already has sky high attack and defense, and carrying that on to Pegasus Knight could make him not only a tank, but a flying tank HAHA
  • Pegasus Knight Conrad (Maybe)
    • I mean, he basically is MEANT to be a Pegasus Knight. He has low attack, high speed, and high resistance. IS basically created a male Pegasus Knight without even giving him the option to be one. AND his outfit is looks fucking amazing with the class LOL. The downside is that his bases are all either higher than or equal to Falcon Knight's bases so he won't receive any bonuses upon promotion. But this one is a maybe because I'll have 2 male Pegasus Knights on Alm's path, and I do want at least one female Mercenary.
  • Mercenary ?????
    • I'm still stuck on this one. I'm already giving 2 pitchforks to Alm's party, so I feel a little bit obligated to give the last one to someone in Celica's party. However, Celica already has several Mercenaries. I'm leaning towards using Mae and dominate the game with a Lightning Sword but --- the Lightning Sword is only available on Alm's path unless I take my chances with DLC maps LOL. Other than Mae, the only other character I could think of on Celica's path is Est. However, if I do decide to pitchfork Est, she'll still have to grind her way up to Dread Fighter in a time where most units will already be promoted. If I don't give anyone in Celica's party a pitchfork, my other option is Delthea.
  • I PROMISE ARCHER FAYE WILL HAPPEN FOR A CHALLENGE RUN
Edited by LJ_Tenma
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I apologize for the double post, but I'm in the middle of Act 3 and here's how my playthrough is going and which characters are in which class:

  • Tobin and Lukas - Pegasus Knight
    • Tobin has been amazing so far with great offensive stats (ATK, SKL, SPD). I honestly feel like he's been RNG-blessed because he's only supposed to have a 30% speed growth as a Pegasus Knight, but his speed has been on par with both Kliff and Gray only being surpassed by Clair. He's my dedicated Ridersbane user and is great at it too. Compared to Pegasus-Lukas, he's definitely way faster, but doesn't hit as hard. Tbh, he's basically the Catria of Alm's route LOL. I definitely like him as a Pegasus Knight instead of an Archer because in my last playthrough of SoV, he never got any speed procs which really hindered his performance. But pegging Tobin was a great idea tbh, 10/10 would recommend
    • Lukas --- holy shit LOL. You ever seen a flying tank before ? 💀 What I did with Lukas was I waited until he could promote to Knight, then I immediately pitchforked him after bumping his stats up so he could pick up the defense and strength and my GOD was I glad I did that LOL. I got him to Pegasus Knight right in time for the for the final map of Act 1 and he was able to tank everything--even bows as a flier. And any enemy was basically annihilated if they got into melee-range with him since he was finally able to double thanks to Pegasus Knight's base speed. Strangely, he has the same speed growth as Tobin, but Lukas has been significantly slower than him (most likely because he was missing some speed levels as a Soldier). Regardless, he can still double certain enemies and he's currently my heaviest hitter on Alm's route. If Tobin is the Catria of Alm's route, then Lukas is the Palla LOL. 10/10 A+, would recommend pegging Lukas tbh.
  • Clair - Archer
    • Oh man, she's amazing as an Archer. She's arguably the best potential bow user since she's almost guaranteed to double even when weighed down by the heavy weight of bows, so she can save HP from Hunter's Volley. Also, her high luck has been giving her really good crit rates. I was originally gonna use her for chip damage since she starts off with really low attack, but honestly she's been murdering with those crits LOL. Also, with the extra range she has as an Archer (+her good base res), she's become my best mage counter. As a Pegasus Knight, she's lacking in 2 range options when in contact with a mage. But as an archer, she doesn't have that problem anymore and her enemy phase has been significantly better.

_________________________

So that's how my playthrough is going LOL. But as I was playing, I think I wanna get started on theory crafting for spell lists for male Clerics. It'll take a lot of thought, but I honestly want to be able to add them in. Female soldiers as well, but they won't require as much work as making spell lists.

My only idea for male Clerics is:

  • Physic at level 6 for Tobin (same time as Faye). Tobin already learns Physic as a level 5 Sage, so I don’t think it would be unfair to give him Physic earlier as a Cleric. Having him learn Physic at the same time as Faye would give players more incentive to use her in a different class and add variety to her options, since most people are inclined to use her as a cleric. He could be an alternative for Cleric!Faye while at the same time not being a complete replacement for her.
  • I also agree with AnonymousSpeed that another unit should get Entrap. Since Sonya is the only unit that gets it, I feel like someone on Alm's route should have it as well.
Edited by LJ_Tenma
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  • 2 weeks later...

Putting boys on Pegasi? You're doing Mila's good work.

On 8/8/2021 at 9:05 AM, LJ_Tenma said:

My only idea for male Clerics is:

  • Physic at level 6 for Tobin (same time as Faye). Tobin already learns Physic as a level 5 Sage, so I don’t think it would be unfair to give him Physic earlier as a Cleric. Having him learn Physic at the same time as Faye would give players more incentive to use her in a different class and add variety to her options, since most people are inclined to use her as a cleric. He could be an alternative for Cleric!Faye while at the same time not being a complete replacement for her.
  • I also agree with AnonymousSpeed that another unit should get Entrap. Since Sonya is the only unit that gets it, I feel like someone on Alm's route should have it as well.

I'm assuming Male units who don't join as Villagers or Myrmidon-lines will be getting the "default" Cleric list? Of Nosferatu, Recover, and (on promotion) Seraphim.

In that case, we'll likely want to keep the following linkages: Saber getting Physic, Kamui getting Freeze, Atlas getting Rescue, and Deen getting Silence. Based on what they already learn as Sages. Jesse is unique among Myrmidons in not getting a support spell as a Sage (aside from default Recover). Maybe as a Cleric/Saint, he could get Anew?

As for Entrap, how about Kliff? It sees he'd like the chance to deal with foes in a clever fashion. As for Gray, maybe he could receive a new Invoke spell (if that's possible)? Like, Invoke Archers?

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1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I'm assuming Male units who don't join as Villagers or Myrmidon-lines will be getting the "default" Cleric list? Of Nosferatu, Recover, and (on promotion) Seraphim.

Yeah, I'm trying to follow the foundations of what the game offers when it comes to clerics, and here's what I've noticed:

Spoiler
  • All villagers and base-mercenary units have unique spell lists
    • Conrad is an exception to this, being the only cavalier with a unique spell list
  • Magic-oriented villager units learn 5-6 spells (ie. Kliff and Faye), while everyone else including mercenaries learn 4
  • Base-cleric units (Silque, Genny, and Tatiana) have unique spell lists as clerics, but generic spell lists as mages
    • This could be pretty much ignored as there's no base-cleric male units of course LOL
  • Base-mage female units (Mae, Delthea, Sonya) learn 6 spells as mages, but 4-5 spells as clerics
    • Mae and Delthea have the generic Cleric spell list plus one extra unique spell as a Saint
    • Sonya has the generic Cleric spell list plus two extra unique spells as a Saint
  • Recover and Nosferatu are the innate spells of the Cleric class with the exception of Tatiana, who has Physic at base
    • We can create an exception for one male unit if this is agreed upon
  • Conrad and Nomah actually share the same spell list as mages, so they could potentially share the same spell lists as Clerics as well

 

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

In that case, we'll likely want to keep the following linkages: Saber getting Physic, Kamui getting Freeze, Atlas getting Rescue, and Deen getting Silence. Based on what they already learn as Sages. Jesse is unique among Myrmidons in not getting a support spell as a Sage (aside from default Recover). Maybe as a Cleric/Saint, he could get Anew?

As for Entrap, how about Kliff? It sees he'd like the chance to deal with foes in a clever fashion. As for Gray, maybe he could receive a new Invoke spell (if that's possible)? Like, Invoke Archers?

This sounds good so far! Also, strangely enough, Saber's spell list seems like it could already work for a Cleric, but we shuffle his spell list a little bit for variety. I definitely agree with Jesse getting Anew, as he comes in at a time where dancers probably would in other games and it could set him apart from the other mercenaries so Celica's party isn't too redundant.

Celica's party also does need a warp-er, so I'm thinking maybe Boey ? He tends to fall behind Mae and Celica when it comes to magic damage (+doubling potential), but he has a good enough attack stat where he could play a serviceable support role.

Also, a brand new Invoke is 100% possible ! I actually tested it out using Kliff as my guinea pig, and we can definitely create a new Invoke. I even tested it with the new male Falcon Knight class I created, and it worked perfectly fine.

We can use this as a template for spell lists:

Spoiler
  • Tobin
    • Physic (lvl 6?)
    • -
    • -
    • -
  • Gray
    • Invoke (lvl ??)
    • -
    • -
    • -
  • Kliff
    • Entrap (lvl ??)
    • -
    • -
    • -
    • -
  • Luthier
    • -
    • -
    • -
    • -
    • -
  • Boey
    • -
    • -
    • -
    • -
    • -
  • Saber
    • Physic (lvl ??)
    • -
    • -
    • -
  • Kamui
    • Freeze (lvl ??)
    • -
    • -
    • -
  • Jesse
    • Anew (lvl ??)
    • -
    • -
    • -
  • Atlas
    • Rescue (lvl ??)
    • -
    • -
    • -
  • Deen
    • Silence (lvl ??)
    • -
    • -
    • -
  • Conrad/Nomah (can be split)
    • -
    • -
    • -
    • -
    • -

 

Edited by LJ_Tenma
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6 hours ago, LJ_Tenma said:

Celica's party also does need a warp-er, so I'm thinking maybe Boey ? He tends to fall behind Mae and Celica when it comes to magic damage (+doubling potential), but he has a good enough attack stat where he could play a serviceable support role.

It's worth noting that Female Mage's "Cleric List" is the base Cleric List, plus any support spells they learned in Priestess. I.e. Sonya learns Rewarp and Entrap as a Priestess, so she gets them (but no additional support spells) as a Cleric/Saint. Faye is an exception, but she starts as a Villager, not a Mage. Giving Cleric!Boey Warp, when Mage!Boey doesn't get it, would fall outside the existing pattern.

6 hours ago, LJ_Tenma said:

Also, a brand new Invoke is 100% possible ! I actually tested it out using Kliff as my guinea pig, and we can definitely create a new Invoke. I even tested it with the new male Falcon Knight class I created, and it worked perfectly fine.

Very cool! This could be an opening for one, or even multiple, new spells.

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5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

It's worth noting that Female Mage's "Cleric List" is the base Cleric List, plus any support spells they learned in Priestess. I.e. Sonya learns Rewarp and Entrap as a Priestess, so she gets them (but no additional support spells) as a Cleric/Saint. Faye is an exception, but she starts as a Villager, not a Mage. Giving Cleric!Boey Warp, when Mage!Boey doesn't get it, would fall outside the existing pattern.

Ahh I see, thanks for pointing that out haha.

So I'm guessing, in order to mirror this, we could just give the base-Mage male units generic spell lists as Clerics ? None of the male mages learn any support magic other than Recover, and it can also kind of mirror the fact that the base-Cleric units have generic spell lists as Mages.

That will leave us with the Mercenaries, Villagers, and Conrad--who can now have a separate Cleric spell list from Nomah who starts out as a Mage (if we are giving him a unique spell list).

If we keep the single support spell that the Mercenaries learn, then we could give them one extra new spell on top of that. However, then they will have 5 spells (including the innate spells) if that would be acceptable ?

We could have more freedom with the villagers' spell lists it seems, so if anyone would get a new Invoke, it should be one of them.

Conrad -- ... Idk what to do with him HAHA. Should he get the villager treatment ? LOL

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2 hours ago, LJ_Tenma said:

Conrad -- ... Idk what to do with him HAHA. Should he get the villager treatment ? LOL

Conrad is in such a weird place, in that he's unique among non-Mage/Villager/Myrmidons in getting a non-generic spell list as a Mage. Why? Is it because he's a new character to the remake? Moreover, his spell list is identical to Nomah's. Was this intended to be of significance, a development of random chance, or the result of some kind of glitch? He's such an anomaly that I don't think there's a "right answer" between giving Cleric!Conrad the generic list, and giving him a unique list.

Quick question - are we keeping Male Clerics limited to Nosferatu and Seraphim in terms of Black magic? Or, do we leave open the possibility of some of them getting other offensive spells?

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Really cool mod! One of my least favourite things about SoV was the genderlocks so it's cool to see smth like this.

In regards to Conrad, I recon he should get a unique spell list as a Cleric/Saint in order to mirror him getting a unique spell list as a Mage/Sage (even tho it is a copy of Nomah's). I think him getting a unique spell list would make more sense than not if you get what I mean considering he's the only non-Villager/Merc to have a unique spell list despite not being a Villager/Merc.

As for what that spell list should be, I think it would be interesting to see him mirror Faye, as they are both Echoes characters and both of them have 5 spells as Mages, so him having 6 to mirror Faye having 6 as a Cleric would be cool. Perhaps he could have Warp, Fortify and Expel? Warp and Fortify are the only white magic spells not present on Celica's route and Expel would make him unique from the other Mercs as Clerics.

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18 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Conrad is in such a weird place, in that he's unique among non-Mage/Villager/Myrmidons in getting a non-generic spell list as a Mage. Why? Is it because he's a new character to the remake? Moreover, his spell list is identical to Nomah's. Was this intended to be of significance, a development of random chance, or the result of some kind of glitch? He's such an anomaly that I don't think there's a "right answer" between giving Cleric!Conrad the generic list, and giving him a unique list.

Tbh, I think it's because he's related to Celica, so they got this whole magic-family thing going on HAHA. It's the only other explanation I can think of.

18 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Quick question - are we keeping Male Clerics limited to Nosferatu and Seraphim in terms of Black magic? Or, do we leave open the possibility of some of them getting other offensive spells?

It seems as if the Nosferatu and Seraphim are the only Black Magic spells any of the Clerics learn (everything else is white/support magic), so I'm not sure if we should add any more Black Magic to the Cleric lists. The closest thing to offensive magic we got is Expel and Invoke.

17 hours ago, Azz said:

Really cool mod! One of my least favourite things about SoV was the genderlocks so it's cool to see smth like this.

In regards to Conrad, I recon he should get a unique spell list as a Cleric/Saint in order to mirror him getting a unique spell list as a Mage/Sage (even tho it is a copy of Nomah's). I think him getting a unique spell list would make more sense than not if you get what I mean considering he's the only non-Villager/Merc to have a unique spell list despite not being a Villager/Merc.

As for what that spell list should be, I think it would be interesting to see him mirror Faye, as they are both Echoes characters and both of them have 5 spells as Mages, so him having 6 to mirror Faye having 6 as a Cleric would be cool. Perhaps he could have Warp, Fortify and Expel? Warp and Fortify are the only white magic spells not present on Celica's route and Expel would make him unique from the other Mercs as Clerics.

Haha thanks ! Gender-locked classes is probably the game mechanic I hate the most about FE, so I really wanted to find a way to get rid of it haha.

I definitely agree Celica should get a warp-er and Fortify because it would seriously help her party out in those annoying swamp maps. Out of everyone in Celica's party though, Conrad may be the best contender if we're going to follow the spell list pattern for mages. He's the only one who doesn't get a support spell in his Mage list, on top of the fact that he doesn't start out as a mage, so I think he and Atlas should be the most deserving of a "new" spell.

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I once again apologize for the double post, but I finally posted and shared my mod on Gamebanana !

Link's right here! (I actually posted it a while ago, but I completely forgot to share it here LOL)

Male Clerics and female Soldiers still have yet to be added, but I promise I'll include them once we could finish up theory crafting for the spell lists LOL

I just made one slight change since originally creating the mod:

Spoiler
  • Conrad will appear as a Pegasus Knight, and will be recruited at level 11--one level away from Falcon Knight promotion.
    • This was mainly to improve his performance, as he'll highly appreciate the flight for Celica's maps. On top of that, he comes with a Blessed Lance anyway and it pairs perfectly with the innate Banish from Falcon Knight.

And here's some bugs I have found after finishing up my first beta playthrough with this mod:

Spoiler
  • Female units in originally male-locked classes appear to be "floating" (their feet don't touch the ground)
  • Male units' feet reach past the mount stirrups on Pegasus/Falcon Knight. Same goes for female units and Bow Knight mounts as their feet cannot reach the inside of the stirrup. (it's kinda funny actually LOL)
  • Some spells or crits cause slight lag, especially enemy-only dark magic like Medusa, Death, and Mire. I've also seen lag if Seraphim or Nosferatu crit. Unsure if this is due to the mod or if this is how the game is in general.
  • If Conrad crits as a Falcon Knight, his cape goes right through him. It's not really a bug, it's just due to how capes are animated as something similar happens with Palla's hair naturally.
  • Not a bug, but if the villager boys use Triangle Attack, there are no voice clips during the animation.

Lastly, here are the results of my playthrough and how some of my units performed/benefitted from the classes for those that were curious!

Spoiler
  • Pegasus Knight Tobin
    • I've already talked about this a couple of posts above, but Pegasus Knight is a great option for Tobin. His base speed will keep up with him throughout the whole game despite only having a 30% growth in speed. His overall offensive stats were great (ATK, SKL, SPD), but his defense was on the lower side (but still not bad). He remained fast enough to have a speed stat comparable with some of the faster units in the game like Clair, Gray, and Kliff, and his ATK was nothing to scoff at either. Tobin makes a great Ridersbane user since he has better availability than Clive or Clair and can build up his stats before they could join. He's my favorite SoV character overall, and I definitely took advantage of him on the battlefield LOL.
  • Pegasus Knight Lukas
    • He's fucking crazy LOL. Once again, I talked about this a few posts up, but his defense on a Pegasus is highly appreciated because it completely erases his bow weakness. On top of that, he hits like a truck. Having his strength with effective weapons like Ridersbane and Blessed Lance really skyrocketed his damage output. On the downside, he is still fairly slow, but I did promote him to Knight first before immediately pitchforking him into a Pegasus Knight--so he probably missed out on some important speed levels while leveling as a Soldier prior. Also, Pegasus Knight/Falcon Knight doesn't fix his RES problem (and RES doesn't get bumped up to class bases upon promotion either). He can stay a physical tank, but he'll still take heavy damage from magic attacks. Overall, Pegasus Lukas is really fun to use, but he may see more benefit as a Dread Fighter so that he could tank both physical and magical attacks.
  • Archer Clair
    • She definitely outshined Python. I was honestly surprised on how well she performed because my first vanilla playthrough experience with her was pretty bad. Again, I have talked about her a couple of posts up--but yes, she's great as an Archer LOL. It was a perfect fit for her too since I didn't make either Tobin or Kliff Archers. She does the job well since her luck and skill is naturally high, so she has great crit rates which synergizes well with the Killer Bow. She arguably makes a better choice for Archer than the villager boys.
  • Dread Fighter Delthea
    • Okay, here's someone I haven't talked about yet LOL. Dread Fighter Delthea is CRAZY. I was collecting items on the DLC, and to my luck, I found a Ladyblade for Alm's party. My GOD was that lucky because Delthea was a fricken monster. She had the highest attack out of anyone in my whole playthrough, and she was literally immune to all magic attacks. Her high res paired with Dread Fighter's ability to halve magical damage means she was a mage murderer and laughed at Jedah. I could have easily soloed the rest of the game with her once she reached promotion to Dread Fighter, but I wanted to keep the challenge of the game and only release this little monster when necessary LOL. Being of the Est archetype, I did have to spend some time grinding her, but it was 100% worth it.
  • Pegasus Knight Conrad
    • Okay yes, I did cheat a little bit and edited him before he entered so that he could appear as a Pegasus Knight LOL. But he's wayyyy better as a Pegasus Knight than he is as a Cavalier (it fits his character better too LOL). For one, he won't have any movement problems anymore since he could fly. Two, he's a great anti-Terror unit since he comes with a Blessed Lance. His bases are actually really good and flying kept him relevant so that he could help kill enemies alongside the Whitewing sisters. He even makes a great Est replacement because his base stats are actually better than hers (ie. they're actually usable) and will require significantly less investment. Out of anyone I reclassed, Conrad made the most perfect fit for Pegasus Knight.

 

Edited by LJ_Tenma
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It's your project, you can double-post as long as you have some sort of update/other reasonable stuff!  I'll shove this into Fan Projects.  If you wanted to ping anyone to let them know of the patch, feel free to do so!

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  • 2 weeks later...

So male clerics? I don't see the need to have new spell lists for them, though I could understand giving the males who have 0 support spells something like Aura, Expel or Seraphim. Or just don't make that an option. I think it's more impactful to have girls be archers and mercenaries and let boys fly.

I still want female soldiers because Baron Faye needs to happen.

This is a fun mod and I'm not sure if I could play without it. 

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On 9/11/2021 at 7:11 AM, Johnnie said:

This is a fun mod and I'm not sure if I could play without it. 

Ahh thanks, I'm really glad you feel that way because this was a ton of work haha

On 9/11/2021 at 7:11 AM, Johnnie said:

So male clerics? I don't see the need to have new spell lists for them, though I could understand giving the males who have 0 support spells something like Aura, Expel or Seraphim. Or just don't make that an option. I think it's more impactful to have girls be archers and mercenaries and let boys fly.

I still want female soldiers because Baron Faye needs to happen.

I just want to be be able to give male units the option to be Clerics and I wouldn't find it fair if female units get all the classes when male units will be missing one haha. Someone like Tobin could be a good alternative for Faye if he has Physic for example.

I'll begin working on including the female Soldiers soon since it won't be as complex as including the spell lists for male Clerics. I'm hoping to release a patch to include both at the same time.

Also (@ everybody), I'm thinking of balancing the male and female Mage classes and giving them the same promotion level, bases, and growths so how does this sound?

Spoiler
  • Mage
    • Promotion level to Sage/Priestess: 12
    • Bases (Rough averages of male+female bases, except speed which is female Mage's base):
      • HP: 24
      • ATK: 8
      • SKL: 2
      • SPD: 7
      • LCK: 3
      • DEF: 3
      • RES: 9
    • Growths:
      • HP: -5%
      • ATK: +5%
      • SKL: +0%
      • SPD: +5%
      • LCK: +0%
      • DEF: -5%
      • RES: +1%

 

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Hey guys, so I finally have the female Soldier and male Cleric class lined up in Paragon, and I tried my best at composing spell lists for all the appropriate characters.

Here's what I came up with, but I'm 100% open to some critique and am willing to change things up !

Spoiler

(All spell lists will include the basic Cleric spells of Recover, Nosferatu, and Seraphim [@ lvl 1 Saint] unless stated otherwise)

  • Tobin
    • Physic
    • Invoke Sniper
  • Gray
    • Expel
    • Freeze
  • Kliff
    • Fortify
    • Entrap
    • Rewarp
  • Luthier
    • Generic Cleric spell list
  • Boey
    • Generic Cleric spell list
  • Saber
    • Physic
    • Fortify
  • Kamui
    • Freeze
    • Warp
  • Jesse
    • Expel
    • Invoke Myrmidon
  • Atlas
    • Rescue
    • Anew
  • Deen
    • Silence
    • Fortify
  • Conrad
    • Seraphim (Cleric, before Saint)
    • Rescue
    • Invoke (Male) Falcon Knight
  • Nomah
    • Generic Cleric spell list

 

Edited by LJ_Tenma
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  • 2 months later...
 


  • Okay I actually posted this on the Gamebanana page for this mod, but I figured it would probably be a lot more appropriate on an actual forum, lol. Also sidenote, I dunno if you're still taking suggestions or actually still working on this mod, but I've been thinking about it alot and thought it would be cool to share regardless!

    So, for Alm's route:

    Gray: He isn't as magically minded as the other two, so I think he should probably get like one cool spell? and that would be it, kinda like how he gets Saggitae & stops. So, with that in mind, I think he should be the one to get Entrap! I was thinking either like, Cleric level 11, or Saint level 5, depending on how busted you think he would be with it. Considering its his only unique WM spell, I think its fair as a late level Cleric spell, but up to you!

    Tobin: Now Tobin IS much more magic than Gray is, and I agree that he should get Physic at level 6ish like Faye, but I think he should get at LEAST one more spell, and since few other units use it, I think he should get Freeze, and since every other Freeze user only gets it after promoting, he should get it at Cleric level 14 or so? I don't think it would be too busted to get too early, and would just make for more interesting gameplay! It would give him a real shot at being a good cleric choice, tbh.

    Kliff: Now, despite being the best magic user of the three boys, I think Kliff should be more geared to being a Mage than a Cleric, BUT that doesn't mean he shouldn't be a powerful Cleric pick. Additionally, since with this mod you might be incentivized to reclass Faye, I figured it would be cool to redistribute her two Cleric spells to the other boys, and since Tobin already has Physic, I think Kliff should get Rescue! Maybe at a little earlier level, like 7? Additionally, I want to give him Silence, since he knows so much magic he should be able to turn it off too, right? Only problem is balancing, I can't remember if Alm fights ANY Mages before Act IV, aside from maybe a couple random witches? So, if Alm DOES have a magic boss or significant number of mage enemies on a map in Act III, then I say that should be Kliff's other Cleric spell, maybe level 13? If, however, Alm's route does NOT have that, then I think Kliff would need another spell to seem relevant, and since two other canonically powerful mages get it (Delthea and Sonya), I think it should be Rewarp. PLUS it opens up fun Silque!Warp to Kliff! Rewarp + Rescue strats for Desaix's fortress, letting you get even more units up there! It should replace Silence as his Cleric late level spell, maybe 12-14 for balance, and then he would just get Silence at Saint level 5 or so, or maybe at Cleric 18, I dunno which would be better for him to get it in time for Nuibaba.


Luthier: I love Luthier but he's kind of a loser, so I dunno how powerful his Cleric spells should be. As a mage, I think he deserves at least one unique spell as a magic support unit, but what spell should it be? If at all possible, I think it would be so funny to just give him like. Invoke. Silque's Dread Fighter invoke, specifically, learned at like a crazy high level, Cleric level 18 or Saint level 12 or something. Is it a bit redundant? Yes. Is it kinda cool tho? Also yes. Just like Luthier :) If it i would be too hard to implement in however (I dunno how they put in those three distinct invoke spells and I'm too afraid to ask), maybe just go safe and give him Entrap and/ or Physic? Just nice spells to have, kinda useful, you know the deal.

Okay, well that's it for Alm's Route, time for:

Celica's Route:

Boey: Now, basing Boey off the Mae model for Cleric reclassing, he should get probably like one unique spell. My first thought is Expel, since he's afraid of monsters it would just work thematically for him. However, Mae gets Silence because Genny doesn't, and Genny already has Expel, so should he get another one? Well, mayyybe, but I really like the idea of him getting Expel like. Frame 1. Literally like Cleric level 1-2 or something funny like that, and so even if he got another spell I think he should still be able to learn Expel. As for that other spell, wellll, Celica's route doesn't get any Warpers, soooo, maybe Boey could fill that niche? Either him, or Conrad.

Atlas: I agree that between him and Jesse, Anew should go to Jesse, since Jesse is closer to a Laslow/ Inigo dancer type than Atlas is, so, that prompts the question, what SHOULD Atlas get? Well, hes already pulling Rescue from Sage, but as a villager, I feel like he should get at least ONE other spell for the class line, just to set it apart, AND, since his Attack is so beefy, he makes a great healer, and what healing spell could have just a biiiiiit more distribution? Fortify. Yeah I think Atlas should get Fortify. Gives him enough of a justification to be used as a Saint at all, let alone one alongside Genny, it's unique for Celica's route, and kinda fits his allornothing spell style, like he gets Fire (basic) and Saggitae (maybe the best BM in the game) and that's IT, which is so funny to me lmao. Thought maybe he could do the same thing with healing magic too!


All the Mercenaries should just get their regular WM spells they get from Sage, with the one exception of course being Jesse, who gets Anew. Maybe a little earlier than Faye too, since it's his only unique WM spell? I would be willing to go as early as Saint level 4-5, since I don't think it would bust the game to have a dancer before Act VI, like it is with just Faye.

The only other two exceptions are Conrad and Nomah:

Now they technically share a spell list as is, so you could either give them the same spells and call it a day, orrrr maybe just give preferential treatment to Conrad, being younger and more accessible and better all around, lol. But maybe that's just my Conrad bias showing through. Like I said earlier though, yeah I think it should be either Boey or Conrad (or Nomah ig) who gets Warp for Celica's route, and between the two, ehhhhh, it depends on if you want the player to have Warp for those Act II desert maps or not. If you are a kind and merciful god, then I'd say Boey, but if you need them to work for it, I'd say Conrad/ Nomah. I even think it would be okay to give it to Conrad AND Nomah at that point, because if you really saved up TWO pitchforks just for one more warp user at literal endgame???? Well hats off to you ig lol. Or maybe even,,, all three? For that very reason? It's not like pitchforks are easy to come by. So, in addition to Warp (Cleric level 12 lets say?) Conrad should also get (again if possible) Tatiana's Flier Invoke, to go with his new Flier baseclass. It would be a cool tool to use for Endgame, and unique since it would be your only upgrade to Genny's Invoke in that route. Maybe, Saint level 7 like Tatiana? Or even before he gets Warp as a Cleric, if you wanna be spicy. And I do! I do wanna be spicy. So Cleric level 9 let's say? Also, I want Conrad to be an overall competent magic unit, so for Good Measure I'll also give him Physic, just because the other two spells don't really feel worth it on their own, to me, and I'm generous. Cleric level, uhhhhhh 6? I can be flexible. Oh and same for Nomah. You could leave his invoke as Genny's little one though, that'd be funny, and it would complete the Boy Invoke trio of Luthier Dread Fighters, Conrad Fliers, and Nomah Little Soldier Guys to mirror Silque, Tatiana and Genny. So yeah! That's everything really, but just TLDR;                       (and c!=cleric & s!=saint just to be clear)

Alm's Route:

Gray: Entrap c!lvl 11

Tobin: Physic c!lvl 6

            Freeze c!lvl 14

Kliff: Rescue c!lvl 7

         Rewarp c!lvl 14

         Silence s!lvl 5

Luthier: Dread Fighter! Invoke c!lvl 18/ s!lvl 6

OR         Entrap/ Physic c!lvl 10


Celica's Route:

Boey: Expel c!lvl 2

           Warp(?) c!lvl 10

All the Mercenaries: The exact same as their Sage spells except:

Jesse: Anew s!lvl 5

Atlas: Rescue c!lvl 8

           Fortify s!lvl 4

Conrad: Physic c!lvl 6
             
               Flier! Invoke c!lvl 9

               Warp c!lvl 12

Nomah: Physic c!lvl 6

              Soldier! Invoke c!lvl 9

              Warp(?) c!lvl 12

So yeah, this is how I spent my evening! lol. The levels themselves were kinda arbitrary tbh, I dunno how they calculated the spell levels in game forreal, but the rough area of time one would get these spells is when I think they'd be the most fun to use, which is what mattered more than the actual specific in-game level correlated with in-game enemy/map levels, etc, so they may need to be reworked for game balancing reasons.
But yeah! Get back to me with any comments or questions you have, I'd love for this to help out the modders! I don't actually have any experience modding this game myself/ balancing the game/ whatever, but I DO have several hundred hours in this game, and a hacked 3DS now, so I hope I could at least be of service, lol.

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