How would you like the Oracle Zelda remakes to be done?

[Lord_Brand]

Ever since a remake for Link's Awakening was revealed for Switch, many of us have been thinking "Oracle remakes when?"

The Oracle Zeldas were a very memorable pair, taking our hero Link to brand new countries with their own history and features, introducing a new pair of lead villains, featuring neat season-changing and age-traveling gimmicks, and offering collectible Magic Rings. Even better, you could link the two games together to unlock additional content. The Oracles were creative and refreshing takes on the series' formula, sticking true to the gameplay roots while experimenting with a lot of original ideas.

Thus, it only stands to reason that fans of these games would love to see the duo remade and remastered for Switch. The question is, how exactly do we want the remakes to be done? Presumably, we want the basic story and gameplay intact, but how should the games look? Should anything be added, changed, or outright removed? Should they be two separate games, or packaged together as a 2-in-1 deal (I think I know the answer most of us will give for that one)? And most important of all: how much should they cost?

In this topic, we can share our ideas for how we'd like the Oracle remakes to go.

Presentation

Spoiler

Link's Awakening for Switch opens and closes with beautifully animated cutscenes, the very first seen in a Zelda game. There were several scenes throughout the game that seemed prime for additional cutscenes, like when Link and Marin sit together at the sea, or when Link discovers the truth about Koholint Island in the Southern Face Shrine. But the only animated cutscenes in Link's Awakening are at the beginning and end of the game. Needless to say, fans were a little disappointed that we didn't get to see that incredible animation style more often.

The Oracle games meanwhile feature not only an animated opening but also several scenes in each game that are represented through still images rather than in-game graphics, including the credits sequences. These would obviously be prime opportunities for animated cutscenes, and since fans are likely crying out for more, the developers will, if they're as smart as you should be to work on video games in the first place, listen and deliver more of what the fans want. Animated cutscenes introducing each boss (like what Shantae and the Seven Sirens had) would be a cool addition as well, getting more mileage out of that animation style. Heck, they can even introduce major characters like Ralph, Queen Ambi, Maple, Impa, Zelda, Ricky, Dimitri, Moosh, and the Great Moblin this way, giving these characters some kind of spotlight moment in the story.

Furthermore, if they want dialogue in the cutscenes, I would highly recommend voice acting, now that BotW made it officially okay to have voice acting in the series. Seeing characters like Onox, Veran, Ralph, and Maple come to life in animated cutscenes with voice acting would be a thrill, like watching a Zelda anime! Even better if they alter some of these cutscenes in main linked games to reflect the fact some of these characters have met Link already, like Impa, Maple, the animal buddies, and the Great Moblin.

Graphics

Spoiler

The in-game graphics likely will reflect the top-down nature of the game. Since the original Oracle games reused a lot of assets from Link's Awakening, one might assume the Oracle remakes would sport a similar graphical style to the remake of Link's Awakening. However, that style has proven divisive. Some accept it as part of the game's charm. Some even like the idea that the toy-like style hints at the game's big twist. But even those who accept the style for Link's Awakening might not want the same style to be applied to the Oracle remakes. So, my suggestion is that the graphics shoot for something closer to the style of A Link Between Worlds for 3DS, which presented the characters in a cartoony but still more detailed and expressive style that echoes the look and feel of A Link to the Past. It helps that ALBW's Link himself looked like an updated version of the Link from the Oracle games, who himself was basically Link from ALttP but more stylized and with white leggings similar to those sported by Adult Link in OoT. Thus, it all comes full circle!

The one catch to this is that since the ALBW style is already plenty expressive, they might not bother with a bunch of animated cutscenes when they can achieve a similar effect through the in-game engine. But the dream scenario is that they'd have both the ALBW style and the animated cutscenes.

Gameplay

Spoiler

Much like LA, the Oracle games were originally released at a time when you had a D-Pad, two thumb buttons, and a start button, necessitating a highly simplistic control scheme that entailed a lot of pausing, changing items, and unpausing. The LA remake for Switch helped streamline the issue some thanks to the much larger number of buttons available, assigning certain indispensable items like the Sword, Shield, Pegasus Boots, and Power Bracelet to their own buttons while letting you assign the rest to the X and Y buttons. It stands to reason that the Oracle remakes should adopt a similar approach, though there are some changes that would need to be made due to some differences between their item selections and LA's. Most notably, the Oracles do not have Pegasus Boots - Pegasus Seeds stand in for them, giving you a temporary speed boost when used with the Satchel, which presumably would be one of the items you can assign to the X or Y buttons. Thus, the L button has to serve a different function here. What function should that be?

Well, it just so happens both games feature a particular item that is crucial to progressing. Items so important to the plot, that they're featured on the cover art for the games themselves. I am of course referring to the Rod of Seasons and the Harp of Ages.

The Rod of Seasons can be used as a nondamaging weapon to knock enemies away (at least, in the original GBC version) but when used atop a tree stump, will change the season of the area you're in to the next season available to you at the time (each one is granted to you by a Season Spirit at a different point of the game). One change I would suggest for the Switch version is that the Rod now also offers a magical attack called a Season Spell that changes to match the season you're in. The Winter Spell fires an icy blast that freezes enemies solid, similar to the Ice Rod. The Summer Spell could be a fireball that burns bushes, grass, and foes alike, similar to the Fire Rod. The Spring Spell could shoot a water ball that bursts upon contact, allowing it to hit nearby foes for *ahem* splash damage. The Fall Spell shoots a whirlwind full of leaves that sends enemies flying up then falling back down (kinda like Gale Seeds and Ricky's charged attack, but with the added effect of the enemy falling back down because, y'know, it's the Fall Spell). For dungeons, Subrosia, and any other location with no season, the Season Spell could be a simple magic ball that damages and/or stuns enemies. There is a practical use in the original version for the nonlethal attack, so if they want to preserve that they could require charging the Rod to fire off the Season Spell.

The Harp of Ages works similar to the Ocarina in LA; when you assign it to a button, you choose which song it plays. All well and good, except that, unlike LA where the songs are highly situational and only one of them has a practical application outside of plot progression (in fact, it's not even needed to progress the plot at all), the Harp of Ages is used a great deal throughout Oracle of Ages, which would make selecting it and choosing its song each time you do highly repetitive and tedious. But, what if it was assigned to its own button, and you chose which song to play each time you used it? That could make doing so a lot more convenient. I would suggest adding at least one Tune that can be used for a purpose other than time travel. Perhaps one that temporarily stops time, allowing you to slip by enemies or defeat them more easily?

It would also be nice if the Roc's Feather/Cape could be assigned to its own button, allowing you to jump whenever you feel like without having to change up your items. I had hoped LA's remake would do this, but alas, the Feather is one of the equippable items in that game, meaning there is still some mandatory pausing and item changing whenever you find a hole or gap that you need to jump over.

Story & Characters

Spoiler

The story and characters of the respective games should probably remain mostly untouched save for the addition of the aforementioned cutscenes, though some extra scenes in Oracle of Seasons that give Onox a little more characterization would be nice. At the time of their release, the Oracles included characters from OoT and MM, such as Guru-Guru, the Happy Mask Salesman, Malon, Talon, Ingo, Mutoh and his carpenters, the Postman, and Tingle. It would be cool if the remakes included characters from newer games in some capacity as well, such as Midna, Linebeck, Groose, and Ravio. But if they can't fit into the two Oracles we currently have, then I may have another idea for them...

If animated cutscenes are implemented, they should probably make Maple's first appearance in both games scripted, most likely to happen shortly after clearing the first dungeon. We can get a cutscene of Maple clumsily flying by on her broomstick and about to crash into Link, followed by in-game footage of her chastising and/or recognizing Link, introducing herself if it's their first meeting, and challenging Link to a race for their items.

Items

Spoiler

Each game's item selection would remain mostly consistent, with the aforementioned change that several of them would now be mapped to specific buttons to cut down on time spent pausing and unpausing.

Certain items that appear in both games - namely, the Boomerang, Power Bracelet, and Roc's Feather - receive an upgrade in one game but not the other. Those would be the Magical Boomerang (Seasons), Power Glove (Ages), and Roc's Cape (Seasons). While they wouldn't necessarily have any practical use in the other game, it would be cool if it were possible to transfer the upgrades over to the corresponding game. The Magical Boomerang and Roc's Cape at least have tangible effects that could in theory be useful in Ages, while the Power Glove could be justified with Linked game-exclusive caves or dungeons in Holodrum, or by adding a built-in effect of increasing the range of Link's throw or the damage of items thrown by Link.

The Mermaid Suit appears in Ages as an alleged upgrade to Zora's Flippers, allowing Link not only to swim faster but also to swim underwater. However, the tradeoff is that you have to mash the D-Pad to swim now rather than the A Button, as you can now use items such as the Sword underwater. Like the item equipping system, this is an artifact of the time the originals came out, so the remake could fix this by keeping the swimming controls the same as the Flippers while increasing the speed of swimming and adding the underwater functionality. Also, I would change the Mermaid Suit to a Zora Suit to better convey the Suit's status as an upgrade to the Flippers.

Both games featured a Trading Quest where you exchange one key item for another until you finally receive either the Broken Sword (in Oracle of Ages) which you can take to a certain NPC to repair, thereby gaining the L-2 Sword in the process, or...a Phonograph that gets a Deku Scrub in a hole near a forest to tell you how to find the L-2 (or L-3 if you already have the L-2) Sword hidden in the forest, which you can do yourself without ever touching the trading quest at all if you already know the method. Yeah, I think Ages pulled this one off better, though the fact Seasons doesn't actually require you to go through the Trading Quest to get the sword can be nice for speedrunning, I guess. Should the Season Trading Quest be altered in the remake so you need to go through the quest to get the sword? I'm not entirely certain, myself. It'd be nice to get something tangible as a reward for going through the trouble.

Magic Rings

Spoiler

The most notable items between the two games are the Magic Rings, collectibles which are primarily found by harvesting Gasha Nuts though they can also be won as prizes in minigames, bought in shops, or received from chests or NPCs. Vasu the Jeweler appraises them for 20 Rupees each, and pays you 30 Rupees as compensation if the Ring turns out to be a duplicate (which happens quite often, especially in the case of Rings from Gasha Nuts). In the GBC originals, you could equip any Ring carried in your Ring Box, but only one at a time. You start with a L-1 Ring Box which can only hold one Ring. Eventually you upgrade to a L-2 Ring Box that holds three Rings, and through a Linked game can get a L-3 Ring Box that holds five.

Magic Ring effects vary from highly useful buffs to attack and defense to niche effects such as immunity to Zora fire to novelties such as changing your appearance while denying you the ability to attack to outright useless junk that does literally nothing ("Rings do nothing unless worn", eh Vasu? Well guess what, some of them do nothing even when you do wear them!). A lot of Rings in the latter category are awarded as achievements, including a Friendship Ring that Vasu gives you as a gift and appraises for free, one you receive for breaking 100 Signs, one for slaying 1000 monsters, one for collecting 10,000 Rupees (in games where you can hold a maximum of 999), one for clearing a Linked game, and not one but two for playing the games on a GBA. Yeah, they're worse than useless since you actually have to spend time and Rupees appraising them, and would have to spend more time to put them in your Ring Box and equip them, which is pointless since they, once again, do absolutely nothing whatsoever.

Needless to say, I'd want to rework the Magic Rings in the remake, trimming all the useless chaff and maybe adding in more effects that could actually be cool and/or useful. Something worth the time and in-game money it takes just to receive the darn things! Also, I think it'd be cool if the Red and Blue Rings changed the color of Link's tunic as a nod to the very first Zelda game, where they first appeared and served as the series' earliest defense upgrades, as well as to Link's Awakening, where starting with the DX version you could gain a red or blue tunic that has the exact same effect as the corresponding Ring in the Oracle games. Honestly, I'm amazed they didn't do that in the GBC originals. They have Rings able to alter your appearance, so why not code the Red and Blue Rings to recolor Link's sprite? Ah well, the remakes are a chance to amend that egregious mistake.

Also, since Link has two hands, I'd suggest maybe letting players equip two Rings at once? That could allow for some really neat combinations. Say, the Bombproof Ring and Blast Ring, making your bombs more powerful while also making you immune to them. Or the Spin and Energy Rings, allowing you to charge up and shoot two sword beams at a time. Of course we can't overlook the sheer awesomeness of equipping the Red Ring and Blue Ring together, doubling both attack and defense, not to mention turning Link's tunic purple. The L-1 Ring Box thus would need to be expanded to hold two Rings at once rather than just one, which could lead to the L-2 and L-3 Boxes holding four and six Rings, respectively. The ability to combine different Rings together would be in-keeping with the spirit of experimenting with different item combinations in these games.

Linking, Secrets, & Other Stuff

Spoiler

A major feature of the GBC originals was the ability to link them to each other via link cable or password, carrying your Rings over to the second game, giving you an extra heart container and the L-1 Wooden Sword from the get go, altering some text to reflect the fact you've met certain characters already, and unlocking new events in the second game that feature characters from the first game. If these games are remade as a 2-in-1 package, linking the two should be much more straightforward, as simple as checking to see if you have clear data from the other game. Even in the scenario where the two are sold as separate games, it's trivial for a game to check for save data from other games nowadays.

Furthermore, the two games featured Secrets which could be learned from a character in one game and told to a character in the other to receive an item. Most of these were unique, including L-3 upgrades for the sword and shield, Bombchu, a pair of unique Magic Rings, the Biggoron's Sword, and even an extra Heart Container. This was a neat idea on paper, but in practice proved tedious, with most of the unique items proving underwhelming (with the obvious exception of the L-3 Sword). The remakes would do well to streamline this feature, and maybe consider adding in some new items to obtain through the Secret system.

However, I have another new idea for how to implement Secrets in the Oracle games: Secret Dungeons. As a sort of counterpart to Dampe's Dungeon Designer side game in LA, Farore's Secret Dungeons could provide players with brand-new bonus dungeons which can be cleared for rewards such as Rupees, Magic Rings, and Heart Pieces.

How about you folks?

Edited August 10, 2021 by Lord_Brand

[Azz]

There two of the zelda games that I have yet to play that I really want to play so I would love to see them be remade for switch. I would hope they would be packaged in one since I wouldn't like to have to pay for two games that, knowing nintendo, would probably be full price...

As for graphical style, I wasn't a massive fan of the link's awakening style and I would prefer a style more along the lines of a link between worlds, though, I wouldn't be surprised if they reprised the link's awakening switch style for a hypothetical oracle games remake.

[Reality]

I'm really fond of these games but both have annoying sections with heavy backtracking (Ages especially).

To get an idea - Ages contains - The Tokay Island trade section , the Goron minigame section, and to a lesser extent you could even point to overuse of that 4-way clockwise only turnstile thing that forced you to find a way to make figures 8s in multiple dungeons.

Seasons is bulked out a bit compared to Ages (with subrosia, and you know, 4 variations of every overworld screen) I think the Gameboy era item switching rears its head in this game more than in Ages (Or even Awakening) because it makes use of combo items like Bomb+Arrows and Seeds(mostly peagusus)+feather. Having shoulder button quick select or better would be much appreciated in Seasons. 

I think both games are a pretty interesting take on Zelda though - The time spent on overworld to get too each dungeon is a substantial mini-adventure in itself (sometimes too much) and the dungeons themselves are kind of clever, with their main fault being excessive. Much more heavy use of puzzles (including item-less puzzles with things like the tile puzzles) than seen in Nintendo's own 2D zeldas (I prefer them to a lot of Link to the Past / Minish Cap dungeons tbh). A few of them need serious reworks (Jabu Jabu's Belly's attempt at 3D with the water levels doesn't work very well). And the 4-way turnstile is overused (backtracking within dungeons after the backtracking forced by the overworld is kind of a slap in the face).

Other things - Both games have "introduction" sections for the 3 mounts (Moosh the bear, Ricky the Kangaroo, Dimitri the Dodongo) as well as 1 overworld/psuedo mini dungeon area that is completely transformed depending on which of the 3 you choose to be permeant later on . Compared to 3D Zeldas though you don't really have a "mount" feeling with them, because the amount of items needed to cross  any 3~ screens on the overworld makes also switching to hem on top of all the other items you need feel bad (nevermind peagusus seeds outclassing all 3 of them). I don't want them to "flatten" the overworld, but it's just an observation that maybe the flat overworlds in OOT/Twilight/Windwaker/etc had some good points in this regard

[Lord_Brand]

6 hours ago, Reality said:

I'm really fond of these games but both have annoying sections with heavy backtracking (Ages especially).

To get an idea - Ages contains - The Tokay Island trade section , the Goron minigame section, and to a lesser extent you could even point to overuse of that 4-way clockwise only turnstile thing that forced you to find a way to make figures 8s in multiple dungeons.

Yeah, I always hated those parts. Jabu Jabu's Belly was tedious too, with the water level changing. An added cutscene to show how the dungeon's being affected by the three buttons would help.

6 hours ago, Reality said:

Seasons is bulked out a bit compared to Ages (with subrosia, and you know, 4 variations of every overworld screen) I think the Gameboy era item switching rears its head in this game more than in Ages (Or even Awakening) because it makes use of combo items like Bomb+Arrows and Seeds(mostly peagusus)+feather. Having shoulder button quick select or better would be much appreciated in Seasons. 

I would argue however that the Past/Present mechanic provides more drastic changes to the overworld than the Four Seasons.

Erm...the Oracle games didn't have a Bow, its role was filled by the Slingshot and Seed Shooter. Although, since Biggoron's Sword and Bombchu were optional items included for fun, they could add a Bow to the remakes for fans who missed it. Or a Bomb Launcher that lets you shoot Bombs in a manner similar to Bomb Arrows. Or let players somehow combine Bombs with the Slingshot or Seed Shooter to fire explosive ammo.

6 hours ago, Reality said:

Other things - Both games have "introduction" sections for the 3 mounts (Moosh the bear, Ricky the Kangaroo, Dimitri the Dodongo) as well as 1 overworld/psuedo mini dungeon area that is completely transformed depending on which of the 3 you choose to be permeant later on . Compared to 3D Zeldas though you don't really have a "mount" feeling with them, because the amount of items needed to cross  any 3~ screens on the overworld makes also switching to hem on top of all the other items you need feel bad (nevermind peagusus seeds outclassing all 3 of them). I don't want them to "flatten" the overworld, but it's just an observation that maybe the flat overworlds in OOT/Twilight/Windwaker/etc had some good points in this regard

I'm curious to know how those will be implemented in a 3D title. I'd be tempted to suggest that they combine aspects of all three, allowing you to traverse those areas with any one of them. For that matter, it'd be kinda nice if you didn't have to settle with getting only one of their Flutes, especially since the games don't bother telling you that there are two different ways to get the Strange Flute which affects which animal buddy you get to "keep". Maybe there could be just one Flute that lets you learn all three of their songs?

Alternatively, I'd suggest swapping the other Flutes out for Epona's Flute, allowing you to call Epona to ride on and travel more quickly. She shows up in the intros of both games, it'd be nice to give her an expanded role. The other three are really only worth calling upon in areas tailored to their abilities anyway, so they could become field NPCs that you can mount up in those areas while Epona becomes the "call anytime, anywhere" mount. Or, revisiting the "one Flute with multiple songs" idea, they could include Epona's Song as a fourth song in addition to Ricky, Dimitri, and Moosh's songs.

[vanguard333]

I have only played Seasons so far, and even then I didn't finish it (I came fairly close though; I had beaten the second-to-last dungeon), so I can't really give any detailed, "I want this particular part of the game refined in this specific way" statements, so this will just be what I want overall.

I would like to see them remade as a bundle that overhauls the visuals into something visually distinct from Link's Awakening while still nodding to the fact that the original games reused Link's Awakening's visuals, makes some QoL improvements, and leaves the cores of the games intact. Where I want the biggest overhaul to be is that the remake is a bundle of three games, not two: in other words, I hope that the remake includes the scrapped third Oracle game. It's time for Farore's game to finally get to see the light of day.

As for cost, normally I would say that a remake, unless it is something like Final Fantasy 7 Remake (i.e. full-overhaul) should not be full price. However, what I am suggesting is a bundle of three games, one of which was never finished and would likely have to be made from the ground-up with little-to-no source code available to use, so this would probably be the the one other case where I could understand it being full price. But I would only see full price as justifiable in this exact scenario: remade as a bundle, and with the bundle including the scrapped third game.

[Jotari]

13 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Thus, it only stands to reason that fans of these games would love to see the duo remade and remastered for Switch. The question is, how exactly do we want the remakes to be done? Presumably, we want the basic story and gameplay intact, but how should the games look? Should anything be added, changed, or outright removed? Should they be two separate games, or packaged together as a 2-in-1 deal (I think I know the answer most of us will give for that one)? And most important of all: how much should they cost?

I really know what the general community here would say on packaging them as 2-in-1. A lot of people seem really adamant that Binding and Blazing Blade shouldn't be packaged. But yeah, for the Oracle games I absolutely feel they should be packaged. That cumbersome password system would feel so much better if it's just naturally integrated into one game that just keeps flags saved. Though having such a system via reading memory probably would be simple enough to do, it'd just plain feel better by being integrated together.

 

13 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Magic Rings

  Reveal hidden contents

The most notable items between the two games are the Magic Rings, collectibles which are primarily found by harvesting Gasha Nuts though they can also be won as prizes in minigames, bought in shops, or received from chests or NPCs. Vasu the Jeweler appraises them for 20 Rupees each, and pays you 30 Rupees as compensation if the Ring turns out to be a duplicate (which happens quite often, especially in the case of Rings from Gasha Nuts). In the GBC originals, you could equip any Ring carried in your Ring Box, but only one at a time. You start with a L-1 Ring Box which can only hold one Ring. Eventually you upgrade to a L-2 Ring Box that holds three Rings, and through a Linked game can get a L-3 Ring Box that holds five.

Magic Ring effects vary from highly useful buffs to attack and defense to niche effects such as immunity to Zora fire to novelties such as changing your appearance while denying you the ability to attack to outright useless junk that does literally nothing ("Rings do nothing unless worn", eh Vasu? Well guess what, some of them do nothing even when you do wear them!). A lot of Rings in the latter category are awarded as achievements, including a Friendship Ring that Vasu gives you as a gift and appraises for free, one you receive for breaking 100 Signs, one for slaying 1000 monsters, one for collecting 10,000 Rupees (in games where you can hold a maximum of 999), one for clearing a Linked game, and not one but two for playing the games on a GBA. Yeah, they're worse than useless since you actually have to spend time and Rupees appraising them, and would have to spend more time to put them in your Ring Box and equip them, which is pointless since they, once again, do absolutely nothing whatsoever.

Needless to say, I'd want to rework the Magic Rings in the remake, trimming all the useless chaff and maybe adding in more effects that could actually be cool and/or useful. Something worth the time and in-game money it takes just to receive the darn things! Also, I think it'd be cool if the Red and Blue Rings changed the color of Link's tunic as a nod to the very first Zelda game, where they first appeared and served as the series' earliest defense upgrades, as well as to Link's Awakening, where starting with the DX version you could gain a red or blue tunic that has the exact same effect as the corresponding Ring in the Oracle games. Honestly, I'm amazed they didn't do that in the GBC originals. They have Rings able to alter your appearance, so why not code the Red and Blue Rings to recolor Link's sprite? Ah well, the remakes are a chance to amend that egregious mistake.

Also, since Link has two hands, I'd suggest maybe letting players equip two Rings at once? That could allow for some really neat combinations. Say, the Bombproof Ring and Blast Ring, making your bombs more powerful while also making you immune to them. Or the Spin and Energy Rings, allowing you to charge up and shoot two sword beams at a time. Of course we can't overlook the sheer awesomeness of equipping the Red Ring and Blue Ring together, doubling both attack and defense, not to mention turning Link's tunic purple. The L-1 Ring Box thus would need to be expanded to hold two Rings at once rather than just one, which could lead to the L-2 and L-3 Boxes holding four and six Rings, respectively. The ability to combine different Rings together would be in-keeping with the spirit of experimenting with different item combinations in these games.

Being able to equip multiple magic rings at once is one of the changes I would absolutely love to have to these games. There's a lot of really creative and useful rings in the game that are left entirely ignored because they're situational and red ring's double attack is just so much better than everything else.

13 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Linking, Secrets, & Other Stuff

  Reveal hidden contents

A major feature of the GBC originals was the ability to link them to each other via link cable or password, carrying your Rings over to the second game, giving you an extra heart container and the L-1 Wooden Sword from the get go, altering some text to reflect the fact you've met certain characters already, and unlocking new events in the second game that feature characters from the first game. If these games are remade as a 2-in-1 package, linking the two should be much more straightforward, as simple as checking to see if you have clear data from the other game. Even in the scenario where the two are sold as separate games, it's trivial for a game to check for save data from other games nowadays.

Furthermore, the two games featured Secrets which could be learned from a character in one game and told to a character in the other to receive an item. Most of these were unique, including L-3 upgrades for the sword and shield, Bombchu, a pair of unique Magic Rings, the Biggoron's Sword, and even an extra Heart Container. This was a neat idea on paper, but in practice proved tedious, with most of the unique items proving underwhelming (with the obvious exception of the L-3 Sword). The remakes would do well to streamline this feature, and maybe consider adding in some new items to obtain through the Secret system.

However, I have another new idea for how to implement Secrets in the Oracle games: Secret Dungeons. As a sort of counterpart to Dampe's Dungeon Designer side game in LA, Farore's Secret Dungeons could provide players with brand-new bonus dungeons which can be cleared for rewards such as Rupees, Magic Rings, and Heart Pieces.

 

While I like that these games had something resembling a post game with the whole secret thing, I think it'd be much more enjoyable if it were made with a packaged game in mind. In other words, don't make it post game, make it something you can do anytime as soon as you encounter the characters. That means there's some kind of incentive to play both games simultaneously. This wouldn't really be gel well with the continuous adventure aspect of it and meeting characters from the last game in the next, but the idea of two games designed to be played simultaneously is pretty appealing to me. Another really cool feature would be if they go in the other direction and lean into the continuing adventure aspect of it, by making the second game you play be a direct continuation. Ie you carry over the same Link with the same stats to the next region Pokemon Gold and Silver Style with a map that you can freely walk between. This would necessitate majorly buffing the damage out put of the enemies in the second region and would probably require some reworking of the dungeons so items and abilities shared between the game, like jumping and swimming don't sequence break things. Or hell just let them sequence break so the experience of playing a region first or second is completely different.

[Lord_Brand]

8 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

I would like to see them remade as a bundle that overhauls the visuals into something visually distinct from Link's Awakening while still nodding to the fact that the original games reused Link's Awakening's visuals, makes some QoL improvements, and leaves the cores of the games intact. Where I want the biggest overhaul to be is that the remake is a bundle of three games, not two: in other words, I hope that the remake includes the scrapped third Oracle game. It's time for Farore's game to finally get to see the light of day.

I like the sound of that, though I can't help but feel that a third Oracle would end up being DLC rather than a default part of the package. What should the game's theme be? Back when Oracle of Ages was Mystical Seed of Wisdom, Nayru was going to have a Magic Paintbrush that was going to be used to solve color-based puzzles. Mystical Seed of Courage was going to be themed around times of day, namely morning, noon, evening, and night. Another theme that could be interesting to see would be manipulating weather phenomena such as wind, rain, snow, and lightning, which I've suggested for a prospective new duo of games.

But Jotari's idea makes me think Farore could keep her Secret theme, and the third region could expand on that theme in some way. Farore could be a writer to compliment Din being a dancer and Nayru a singer. Her item then would presumably be the Tome of Secrets. In what way could Link use it to interact with the world around him?

Since there would be three regions to explore now, L-4 upgrades for the Sword and Shield would seem apt. You could also in theory get a L-4 Ring Box able to hold seven or eight Magic Rings. The story would need to be re-written a little however, as Koume and Kotake shouldn't kidnap Zelda until you've cleared all three games/lands. The third flame would be lit by whatever happens in Farore's land, and the sacrifice to resurrect Ganon would be performed after lighting all three flames.

7 hours ago, Jotari said:

While I like that these games had something resembling a post game with the whole secret thing, I think it'd be much more enjoyable if it were made with a packaged game in mind. In other words, don't make it post game, make it something you can do anytime as soon as you encounter the characters. That means there's some kind of incentive to play both games simultaneously. This wouldn't really be gel well with the continuous adventure aspect of it and meeting characters from the last game in the next, but the idea of two games designed to be played simultaneously is pretty appealing to me. Another really cool feature would be if they go in the other direction and lean into the continuing adventure aspect of it, by making the second game you play be a direct continuation. Ie you carry over the same Link with the same stats to the next region Pokemon Gold and Silver Style with a map that you can freely walk between. This would necessitate majorly buffing the damage out put of the enemies in the second region and would probably require some reworking of the dungeons so items and abilities shared between the game, like jumping and swimming don't sequence break things. Or hell just let them sequence break so the experience of playing a region first or second is completely different.

I do like the idea of Link getting to keep more of his stuff between regions, especially if the two games are combined into one package. Get the L-2 Sword in Holodrum, start with it in Labrynna and upgrade it there to a L-3 Sword.

I also like the idea of streamlining the Secret system such that you find Character A in the first game, receive their Secret, and give it to Character B in the second game, thereby giving you the reward in that game as soon as possible. Worth noting that Secret-exclusive items like Biggoron's Sword are able to be received in either game through one of two Secrets, the one you use depending on the order in which you play the two games. I'd be tempted to adjust some of these such that there are more unique rewards that can only be gained through one of the two secrets, or that they now function as two halves of a whole.

Link getting to keep all his Heart Containers between games sounds cool as well, but assuming the bare minimum of 8 boss Containers and 12 Pieces per region, that adds up to 22 extra Hearts total, giving Link 26 Hearts by the end of the second game (36 if Farore gets her own region). Upscaling the damage in a Linked game would counteract the effects of the Hearts, making collecting them feel like false progress.

[AnonymousSpeed]

On 8/10/2021 at 5:25 AM, Lord_Brand said:

Furthermore, if they want dialogue in the cutscenes, I would highly recommend voice acting

Ew, disgusting. I hate voice acting. I have no idea how something so repulsive has become so universally popular.

During the animated cutscenes? Fine, but other than that keep this garbage outta my face.

On 8/10/2021 at 5:25 AM, Lord_Brand said:

Well, it just so happens both games feature a particular item that is crucial to progressing. Items so important to the plot, that they're featured on the cover art for the games themselves. I am of course referring to the Rod of Seasons and the Harp of Ages.

My issue with this is that these items aren't as general-use as the pegasus boots, so I would much rather the spare button be made freely assignable.

On 8/10/2021 at 5:25 AM, Lord_Brand said:

But, what if it was assigned to its own button, and you chose which song to play each time you used it?

Sort of a mixed bag. On one hand, this makes it easier if you're playing several different songs, but on the other it becomes more annoying when playing the same song repeatedly, which you sometimes have to do. I would keep with the Link's Awakening method.

On 8/10/2021 at 5:25 AM, Lord_Brand said:

Certain items that appear in both games - namely, the Boomerang, Power Bracelet, and Roc's Feather - receive an upgrade in one game but not the other. Those would be the Magical Boomerang (Seasons), Power Glove (Ages), and Roc's Cape (Seasons). While they wouldn't necessarily have any practical use in the other game, it would be cool if it were possible to transfer the upgrades over to the corresponding game.

I think this would be a kind of cool linked game feature even if a lot of the items would be useless. You'd also have to decide what to do about the Seed Shooter and the Slingshot. I'd keep the mermaid suit as a mermaid-themed item and not a Zora one, I feel that adds a little more charm.

On 8/10/2021 at 5:25 AM, Lord_Brand said:

Should the Season Trading Quest be altered in the remake so you need to go through the quest to get the sword? I'm not entirely certain, myself. It'd be nice to get something tangible as a reward for going through the trouble.

Naw son. I love fun little stuff like that- the problem here is that you are not seeing knowledge as a useful reward in itself. For a player without a guide, the knowledge of how to get the upgraded sword is the next step in the trade chain for the upgraded sword. Unlike all the other rewards, the player keeps to keep that one even when they start a new game.

On 8/10/2021 at 5:25 AM, Lord_Brand said:

Needless to say, I'd want to rework the Magic Rings in the remake, trimming all the useless chaff and maybe adding in more effects that could actually be cool and/or useful.

Naw son. Rings are an enhanced achievement system, so while some (like the reward for playing on a GBA) would have to be changed, I think it's fine to have some useless ones. I generally like these ideas, with one exception.

On 8/10/2021 at 5:25 AM, Lord_Brand said:

Also, since Link has two hands, I'd suggest maybe letting players equip two Rings at once?

Two hands? Ten fingers.

On 8/10/2021 at 5:25 AM, Lord_Brand said:

However, I have another new idea for how to implement Secrets in the Oracle games: Secret Dungeons. As a sort of counterpart to Dampe's Dungeon Designer side game in LA, Farore's Secret Dungeons could provide players with brand-new bonus dungeons which can be cleared for rewards such as Rupees, Magic Rings, and Heart Pieces.

I'm definitely down for some bonus dungeons. Heck, you could even have bonus dungeons which require all the items from both games- elaborate labyrinths which use the Power Glove and Magnetic Gloves and all other sorts of wacky business.

16 hours ago, Jotari said:

A lot of people seem really adamant that Binding and Blazing Blade shouldn't be packaged. But yeah, for the Oracle games I absolutely feel they should be packaged.

FE6 and FE7 don't really have any linked features though. The Oracles games should come as a package because they're designed to compliment one another- FE6 and FE7 have the same poorly-preserved continued but are overall totally separate games.

6 hours ago, Lord_Brand said:

Upscaling the damage in a Linked game would counteract the effects of the Hearts, making collecting them feel like false progress.

Wisely said. I'd say that is one of many compelling reasons against carrying over everything between games.

Edited August 11, 2021 by AnonymousSpeed

[Jotari]

Just now, AnonymousSpeed said:

FE6 and FE7 don't really have any linked features though. The Oracles games should come as a package because they're designed to compliment one another- FE6 and FE7 have the same poorly-preserved continued but are overall totally separate games.

I'd still rather buy them once than twice. I also don't find the labor argument of Nintendo deserving to get twice the money to do twice the work as all that novel, considering that if they were to remake those games with a preexisting engine then over 90% of the work is already done, and that's the only argument I see people bringing up for rejecting a bundled deal. And it's an argument that would absolutely apply to the Oracle games, as creating both of them would probably cost more effort than creating two GBA Fire Emblem games. Of course because of that factor I think one could make a great argument that there's no need to remake the gameboy games at all, and I agree They're pretty great games already as gameboy games. The age of the hardware didn't hold them back at all, and any gameplay issues I might have with them I can just tweak myself using modding.

[AnonymousSpeed]

9 hours ago, Jotari said:

I'd still rather buy them once than twice.

Of course (unless its twice for half price, however unlikely that is), but I wasn't making an argument about price. My point was about whether there would be any mechanical benefit to derive. To be honest, I think your later point is much more compelling. FE7 and FE6 have so many redux patches and emulators have so many quality of life features that a remake would have to be pretty spectacular to justify spending the money. Perhaps if Saul had a very sexy voice I would buy it.

[Jotari]

6 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Of course (unless its twice for half price, however unlikely that is), but I wasn't making an argument about price. My point was about whether there would be any mechanical benefit to derive. To be honest, I think your later point is much more compelling. FE7 and FE6 have so many redux patches and emulators have so many quality of life features that a remake would have to be pretty spectacular to justify spending the money. Perhaps if Saul had a very sexy voice I would buy it.

Eh, I say I don't think they need to remade, but I'm Fire Emblem's bitch, so I'd buy it anyway.