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New Heroes: Abyss & Muspell

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I'll probably fish for just Yuri (that CDI4 + time's pulse... likely maxing out his HM and then sticking both on Legault who's more of a personal fave) and then bow out.  Moderately happy that the Wolves are in for their fans. : )

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23 minutes ago, FailWood said:

Nope, this is the 3rd New Heroes banner Three Houses has gotten in the last 11 months.

I'm almost certain that one of the Byleths will be a CYL winner next time.  Female Byleth in particular was in a winning position until people got too distracted by Gatekeeper's dominance on the Men's side to notice Marianne sneak past her on the Women's side, and they'll likely want her to get something new now that Male Byleth has a Legendary.

They’ll stop making TH banners when they stop selling well.

And given that the chances they’ve given to the less popular games have often fallen flat financially (namely the latest PoR, Binding Blade, Genealogy and Thracia banners), I can’t exactly blame them for falling back on Three Houses.

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14 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

What...? Lyon's already in the game - oh. It's...err I know his name was onscreen but I already forgot it while typing this. Hey, this means better odds for the Echoes DLC characters doesn't it? Heck they've been posted far away from the "It'll never happen" Tier since TMS was added.

You’re not alone; I think those two look very similar. 😄

I’m disappointed (though not at all surprised) to see a second Three Houses banner this year, when I was really looking forward to another Tellius or Archanea (including Awakening) banner. I have little interest in this banner, though I like Hapi and I’m pleased to see her included in the Heroes roster. I’m saving my orbs for the upcoming seasonal banner with Azura, Shigure, Olivia and Inigo or a Tellius or Archanea banner depending on the characters on it.

Edit: And in response to several other people that I can’t quote in an edit, I am definitely getting Three Houses fatigue.

Edited by Magenta Fantasies

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I figured it'd be a Three Houses banner, but to be honest I was expecting some characters like Felix and Sylvain. But I'm happy with this, I love Constance. Muspell's dragon form is so cool, but I probably won't pull for him.

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3 hours ago, XRay said:

While Save tanks can cover some of that weakness by forcing to nukes on offense to fight them, Save tanks are vulnerable to Fireweepers, and there has been a large influx of all kinds of Sweepers lately that can weaken them significantly enough with just one round of combat for regular nukes to take them out in a second round of combat.

You claimed

13 hours ago, XRay said:

Against units like Edelgard: Hegemon Husk and Hector: Brave Warrior who counters with Bonfire, he can use "Desperation" as a Blazing nuke to bypass/delay the counter attack as well,

but Yuri fails to one-hit kill either of them and dies to their counterattacks, Save or no Save.

In terms of combat performance, Yuri (40+6/44+6 with Dragonflowers) is absolutely nothing special. His offensive stats are on par with the other physical ranged units at the top, but he has absolutely nothing to keep him alive if he fails to kill before he gets counterattacked.

  • Shinon has similar offenses (40+5/44+5) and better bulk.
  • Leila has similar offenses (39+5/44+8), cannot be counterattacked, and has mobility options, though not to Yuri's extent. Her only major drawback is not having a Slaying weapon.
  • Ulir has similar offenses (44+6/43+6) and absolutely demolishes Yuri in performance due to having Null Follow-Up, Null Guard, Desperation, Dive-Bomb, and penalty nullification on her exclusive skills. Despite being blue, she can still deal with most green units because of them. Her only major drawback is that she can't get blessing bonuses and is only usable half of the time.
  • Legendary Claude has similar offenses (39+5/43+5), has Null Follow-Up on his weapon, and receives a massive damage reduction from Fallen Star. His only major drawback he is only usable half of the time.
  • Harmonic Leaf has similar offenses (41+5/42+5), has Miracle to keep him alive, and has Galeforce and Canto for mobility along with base cavalry mobility.

The only thing Yuri really has going for him compared to his competition is his mobility.

Edited by Ice Dragon

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14 hours ago, XRay said:

A lot of people use Safety Fence to do anything from sniping a unit to testing Traps against turn 1 initiation teams. My Nótt cav line win rate dropped noticeably in Vault of Heaven due to it particularly later in the week. And Safety Fences are not as easy to snipe as people think they are, as no one in their right minds would put Safety Fence in the middle two columns to get destroyed, unless they do not rely on Safety Fence in the first place and they do not care whether it exists or not. Due to how wide the Safety Fence covers, it is still very effective when placed on the edge or off center, as most defense teams do not have the resources to threaten all four center columns simultaneously, let alone the side columns, so there is no need to place Safety Fence right smack in the middle.

Putting Safety fence in the middle is just asking for it to be destroyed, hence why I said put the Catapult/Duma properly (lanes 2 or 5) which is where most Safety Fences are placed. I've seen many catapults in Lane 2 in VoH for that very reason, not to mention having the middle lanes free to enable Smite strats is more valuable than having the Fence cover the whole row. 

14 hours ago, XRay said:

Sothe is not gutted because of high Def, Sothe and nukes on Infantry Pulse defense teams are gutted because Pulse Smoke shuts Infantry Pulse down as it became increasingly common, and super tanks generally have balanced bulk that makes whatever stat nukes target irrelevant. And it is not a good idea to run a defense team solely of mages either, as you do not want the offense team to just tank the defense team with a simple Res wall. Dodge was never the main reason why Infantry Pulse teams fell in prominence as even the best Dodge super tanks are not immune to being crushed by the weight of Flash with half a dozen Special triggers on top.

Additionally, defense cannot utilize Spd based Dodge skills particularly well due to a lack of coordination, and offense can generally bring more Spd Mythics to bear to win the Spd check, so it is not like Spd based Dodge on defense is going to trigger reliably anyways. Blazing nukes on offense simply are not affected as harshly from Dodge as the Blazing nukes on defense did.

I agree Yuri is great as a support unit, but he differs from other support units because of how well he performs as a combat unit. Up until this point, the only unit that I can think of that can be a good combat AND support unit at the same time is Gunnthrá, and she only managed to do that very recently.

During the Ophelia and Sothe AoE spamming era, Pulse Smoke was a super rare skill that was only available on Groom Pent, and his banner wasn't something many pulled on so the skill was a rarity to see outside of super whale teams. What started to shut down the strategy was Brave Ike's refine that gave him great amounts of damage reduction to let him live almost every AoE hit, and shortly after other anti AoE units like Nagi were released (although the latter ones ended up being too niche and, as such, not very relevant for the AR meta). As the CYL1 winner he was a more widespread unit amongst the playerbase and that made him more splashable in AR-O teams as the main tank. It wasn't until Igrene's release that Pulse Smoke slowly started becoming more widespread, but AoE nuke defense teams had already fallen out of favor thanks to B!Ike and the skill only served to seal their fate. 

Spd based Dodge is unreliable at best and useless at worst against AoE nukes as those are going to have really high speeds by using Life and Death to maximize the output of their special, so I agree with that point. However, the unconditional type of damage reduction on bulky units is what throws a wrench on AoE nukers, and like I said before that started with Urvan's refine and has only gotten even more widespread as time went by and newer units were released with unconditonal dmg reduction on first hit.

I feel Leila is slightly better than Yuri at performing both the offense and support role at the same time because her Prf having a semi Foul Play built-in means she doesn't need to choose what role to take, while Yuri is superior at either of them due to better BST for offensive roles and having both the swap and Canto for support purposes. The thing is that in terms of pure offense there's little reason to use Yuri over Ninja Lyn, who is at the top of offensive daggers at present, so it'd be better to focus on his unique support capabilities. 

But maybe I'm just biased against using AoE nuking on AR-O because I tried to do that with high Atk units like OG!Lysithea and Ophelia herself, and the results in VoH were less than stellar compared to straightfoward offensive teams like Lynjaforce and the like, so I'm probably undervaluing Yuri's effectiveness in said role.

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Like with Reginn, I don't think Yuri's performance against tanks is very important. He can leave that to his teammates, his real role is to run up and snipe support units or nukes and then get to safety.

Edited by Othin

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Well, it's official - September is a Dolphin Month for me...

Although if I showed a little more restraint, I'd probably settled for one Hero and call it a day...but knowing me, I'm probably going to try and see how many I can get before I need to Spark. 

I'll be going for Muspell (because I like to collect all the FEH OC characters), Hapi (because she's my favorite Abyss character) and Constance (because I can finally pair her with Dedue like in my head-canon). 

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1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

You claimed

14 hours ago, XRay said:

Against units like Edelgard: Hegemon Husk and Hector: Brave Warrior who counters with Bonfire, he can use "Desperation" as a Blazing nuke to bypass/delay the counter attack as well,

but Yuri fails to one-hit kill either of them and dies to their counterattacks, Save or no Save.

Yes, and I also said right after you can use tank busters like Alm: Imperial Ascent right after if Yuri cannot handle it, and tank busters and Firesweepers can also just weaken these units first before Yuri takes them out.

33 minutes ago, Alexmender said:

During the Ophelia and Sothe AoE spamming era, Pulse Smoke was a super rare skill that was only available on Groom Pent, and his banner wasn't something many pulled on so the skill was a rarity to see outside of super whale teams. What started to shut down the strategy was Brave Ike's refine that gave him great amounts of damage reduction to let him live almost every AoE hit, and shortly after other anti AoE units like Nagi were released (although the latter ones ended up being too niche and, as such, not very relevant for the AR meta). As the CYL1 winner he was a more widespread unit amongst the playerbase and that made him more splashable in AR-O teams as the main tank. It wasn't until Igrene's release that Pulse Smoke slowly started becoming more widespread, but AoE nuke defense teams had already fallen out of favor thanks to B!Ike and the skill only served to seal their fate. 

Urvan with Spurn is not what shuts down Infantry Pulse. In fact, plenty of Infantry Pulse teams can smash through Ike: Brave Mercenary. It does not matter that he has a huge amount of in combat damage reduction if he is reduced to single digit HP through multiple rounds of combat. Plenty of Infantry Pulse teams employ multiple Blazing nukes and/or Flash to wear him down.

39 minutes ago, Alexmender said:

But maybe I'm just biased against using AoE nuking on AR-O because I tried to do that with high Atk units like OG!Lysithea and Ophelia herself, and the results in VoH were less than stellar compared to straightfoward offensive teams like Lynjaforce and the like, so I'm probably undervaluing Yuri's effectiveness in said role.

Aether Raids is more nuanced than PvE. In PvE, you can often use a single nuke or even a Galeforcer to clear an entire map, but that is not going to fly in Aether Raids. Out of all the raw damage nukes, Blazing nukes still have the best overall kill rate.

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42 minutes ago, XRay said:

Yes, and I also said right after you can use tank busters like Alm: Imperial Ascent right after if Yuri cannot handle it, and tank busters and Firesweepers can also just weaken these units first before Yuri takes them out.

If you're already throwing a wallbreaker or Sweeper in to soften the opponent up, then you don't need Yuri to finish the job when just about any other modern unit will also work.

You aren't going to be using Yuri for his combat performance (unless you don't have better options). Yuri's job is to get in and get out, either moving an ally to safety or sniping a specific enemy threat. He has the stats to deal with support units and glass cannons that lack punch on their counterattacks, but can't reliably take out units that have enemy-phase presence.

There's nothing stopping you from building him for a nuke role, but that doesn't change the fact that his competition is noticeably better at it than he is.

Edited by Ice Dragon

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15 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

If you're already throwing a wallbreaker or Sweeper in to soften the opponent up, then you don't need Yuri to finish the job when just about any other modern unit will also work.

You aren't going to be using Yuri for his combat performance (unless you don't have better options). Yuri's job is to get in and get out, either moving an ally to safety or sniping a specific enemy threat. He has the stats to deal with support units and glass cannons that lack punch on their counterattacks, but can't reliably take out units that have enemy-phase presence.

There's nothing stopping you from building him for a nuke role, but that doesn't change the fact that his competition is noticeably better at it than he is.

The reason you want a Blazing nuke to finish the job is to kill the entire team quicker, since they hit an entire area, and Yuri is also a dagger unit with the C slot free for more debuffs so his allies have an easier time cleaning things up.

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33 minutes ago, XRay said:

Urvan with Spurn is not what shuts down Infantry Pulse. In fact, plenty of Infantry Pulse teams can smash through Ike: Brave Mercenary. It does not matter that he has a huge amount of in combat damage reduction if he is reduced to single digit HP through multiple rounds of combat. Plenty of Infantry Pulse teams employ multiple Blazing nukes and/or Flash to wear him down.

I was talking about the late 2019 AR meta, and Spurn didn't exist during those days. Not like it'd matter because Brave Ike isn't fast enough to make use of Spurn when facing a Blazing nuke without sacrificing too much bulk. 

I do not recall seeing Blazing nukes as the primary Infantry Pulse archetype, and I was a mainstay in tier 21 on AR before VoH became a thing. Dogpiling on B!Ike meant little when he was always paired with Brave Lucina, and she allowed him to retaliate with Aether to heal off the damage from the blazing nuke so he could continue tanking the rest of the defense team. Brave Ike is suceptible to Flash, but healers with the staff became more widespread when Cav lines started gaining traction as the most reliable AR-D archetype and most Infantry Pulse teams didn't had the space to slot a cav healer with Flash as people don't like to invest on infantry healers. Infantry Pulse teams had 2 Blazing nukes at best and mostly focused on having pre-charged Ignis/Glacies. 

Nowadays Infantry Pulse is not even considered due to the lack of threat range and that straightfoward nukes like Duo Líf, FE8 Selena and some others have more than enough killing power while also disabling any tricks the offense team could use against them (Lif with partial Dodge pierce and Selena with NFU). 

33 minutes ago, XRay said:

Aether Raids is more nuanced than PvE. In PvE, you can often use a single nuke or even a Galeforcer to clear an entire map, but that is not going to fly in Aether Raids. Out of all the raw damage nukes, Blazing nukes still have the best overall kill rate.

I found that Far Save armors and Fallen Edelgard survive the Blazing nuke too often even when Lysithea reached more than 80 visible Atk and then killed her on retaliation, making all the setup useless. There's also cases where the Blazing special leaves the tank at 1 HP but afterwards they're dealing 0 damage (often seen when facing V!Henriette). Those types of units aren't rare in VoH as those tanks cover both Blazing nukes and Galeforce. The problem Blazing nukes have when dealing with damage reduction is that the more damage they do on hit, the more damage is reduced and you end up missing lots of kills you would've gotten by running a standard special like Glimmer/Luna/etc. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Alexmender said:

I was talking about the late 2019 AR meta, and Spurn didn't exist during those days. Not like it'd matter because Brave Ike isn't fast enough to make use of Spurn when facing a Blazing nuke without sacrificing too much bulk. 

I do not recall seeing Blazing nukes as the primary Infantry Pulse archetype, and I was a mainstay in tier 21 on AR before VoH became a thing. Dogpiling on B!Ike meant little when he was always paired with Brave Lucina, and she allowed him to retaliate with Aether to heal off the damage from the blazing nuke so he could continue tanking the rest of the defense team. Brave Ike is suceptible to Flash, but healers with the staff became more widespread when Cav lines started gaining traction as the most reliable AR-D archetype and most Infantry Pulse teams didn't had the space to slot a cav healer with Flash as people don't like to invest on infantry healers. Infantry Pulse teams had 2 Blazing nukes at best and mostly focused on having pre-charged Ignis/Glacies. 

Nowadays Infantry Pulse is not even considered due to the lack of threat range and that straightfoward nukes like Duo Líf, FE8 Selena and some others have more than enough killing power while also disabling any tricks the offense team could use against them (Lif with partial Dodge pierce and Selena with NFU). 

Ike: Brave Mercenary on offense has enough Spd to contest Blazing nukes on Infantry Pulse teams, at least on Light Season with multiple Peonys to back him up. Mine got dogpiled and Flashed, and while he stands a better chance of surviving Infantry Pulse teams compared to other tanks, he was not the magic bullet that shuts them down and he can still die if he gets Flashed early.

Selena is not an issue if you stack enough Spd, which super tanks should be doing.

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17 minutes ago, XRay said:

The reason you want a Blazing nuke to finish the job is to kill the entire team quicker, since they hit an entire area, and Yuri is also a dagger unit with the C slot free for more debuffs so his allies have an easier time cleaning things up.

So... you're wasting 3 of your team's C slots on Infantry Pulse so that your support/clean-up unit can have Blazing Wind fully charged up?

 

3 minutes ago, XRay said:

Selena is not an issue if you stack enough Spd, which super tanks should be doing.

Yes, because stacking 63 Spd on a unit that needs to also have good Def and Res to avoid a double from an attacker with 67 Spd before buffs (+10+0 with Spd Asset and budget build) is reasonable. A maxed out Selena (+10+10 with an optimized build and a Spd Mythic) hits 79 Spd before buffs and needs your tank to have 75 Spd to avoid a double.

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1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

So... you're wasting 3 of your team's C slots on Infantry Pulse so that your support/clean-up unit can have Blazing Wind fully charged up?

Rafiel: Blessed Wings can Pulse Specials down by two. A Galeforcing Velouria can do three. Running a team of infantry nukes is not an issue if the main challenge from defense comes from bulky tanks rather than high mobility nukes. Not every nuke needs to run Fatal Smoke or Savage Blow on their C slot.

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Yes, because stacking 63 Spd on a unit that needs to also have good Def and Res to avoid a double from an attacker with 67 Spd before buffs (+10+0 with Spd Asset and budget build) is reasonable. A maxed out Selena (+10+10 with an optimized build and a Spd Mythic) hits 79 Spd before buffs and needs your tank to have 75 Spd to avoid a double.

Yes, I think it is quite reasonable. Lucina: Brave Princess alone provides 10 Spd. Two Spd Mythics provide another 8. Flowers, Summoner Support, and Spd/Res Solo provides at least another 9. Chill Spd or Sabotage Spd can swing it in your favor by 6 or 7.

My Ike: Brave Mercenary +Spd can hit 70 Spd at max Merges and Flowers with Lucina: Brave Princess support and three Spd Mythics, and Chill Spd on one of the Mythics can swing it 76. A different faster tank should have no issue reaching even higher Spd with less investment.

Edited by XRay

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I mean ... I actually do not care for 3H so I was always gonna feel 3H fatigue.

I'm more annoyed that 3H getting a second book 6 banner along with CYL being a story chapter again means that another game that REALLY needs new heroes is gonna get kicked off the cycle. So, two of Archanea, Tellius, Binding Blade, or Awakening are not getting a banner this book.

Not to mention that Tellius not having any launch units in the game AND PoR/RD counting as the same universe so a banner with only PoR units and no RD units still counts as the "Tellius quota" AND Tellius having a lot of characters has put them pretty behind. And no, I'm don't think characters getting stuck in seasonal hell count completely.

Edited by Sunwoo

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33 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

I mean ... I actually do not care for 3H so I was always gonna feel 3H fatigue.

I'm more annoyed that 3H getting a second book 6 banner along with CYL being a story chapter again means that another game that REALLY needs new heroes is gonna get kicked off the cycle. So, two of Archanea, Tellius, Binding Blade, or Awakening are not getting a banner this book.

Not to mention that Tellius not having any launch units in the game AND PoR/RD counting as the same universe so a banner with only PoR units and no RD units still counts as the "Tellius quota" AND Tellius having a lot of characters has put them pretty behind. And no, I'm don't think characters getting stuck in seasonal hell count completely.

It's worth noting that this isn't sustainable. Right now, 3H has 8 seasonal-only characters and only 6 playable characters without any version in Heroes, for a total of 14. Another two years like this would dry up the well completely.

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6 minutes ago, Othin said:

It's worth noting that this isn't sustainable. Right now, 3H has 8 seasonal-only characters and only 6 playable characters without any version in Heroes, for a total of 14. Another two years like this would dry up the well completely.

This makes IS's decisions sometimes all the more baffling. I have to assume that maybe they plan to dip into timeskip forms for the students, but still ...

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8 minutes ago, Othin said:

It's worth noting that this isn't sustainable. Right now, 3H has 8 seasonal-only characters and only 6 playable characters without any version in Heroes, for a total of 14. Another two years like this would dry up the well completely.

You aren't accounting for the fact that they could just sell the students again, but in their war phase designs (aside from the house leaders, Lysithea and Marianne). There's certainly a few students who would like the second chance (like Hubert).

Actually on second thought, scratch Marianne because her CYL version was denied Blutgang just so Marth could have his own Sword Infantry team.

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As much as I'd like to see the base forms of Ashe, Alois, Dorothea, and Felix in the game, I am feeling Three Houses fatigue. I was feeling it earlier this year, honestly. We've had TH content almost every month this year. January had seasonals and a Mythic, February had a Legendary, March had a full New Heroes banner, April had another Legendary, May had the two Fallen units, then we got the summer banner, in August we had Brave Marianne and Gatekeeper, and now we're getting another full New Heroes banner. Brave Marianne and Gatekeeper were fan-voted, but still, it's stacked up. July is the only month I don't recall any TH content.

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6 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

This makes IS's decisions sometimes all the more baffling. I have to assume that maybe they plan to dip into timeskip forms for the students, but still ...

I think the idea is, they wanted to be able to dip into side stuff like the church and Abyss without that having to be the only 3H New Heroes banner for the year. But as time goes on, that will feel less meaningful.

6 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

You aren't accounting for the fact that they could just sell the students again, but in their war phase designs (aside from the house leaders, Lysithea and Marianne). There's certainly a few students who would like the second chance (like Hubert).

Actually on second thought, scratch Marianne because her CYL version was denied Blutgang just so Marth could have his own Sword Infantry team.

I do think they'll do that eventually, but by then I'd expect them to slow down a bit.

And we may reach that point faster than those raw numbers would suggest. Of those 14 characters, only 3 (Dorothea, Leonie, and Manuela) are female.

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1 hour ago, XRay said:

Rafiel: Blessed Wings can Pulse Specials down by two. A Galeforcing Velouria can do three.

And both of those not only require an Ally Support to pull off, but potentially also need HP manipulation to land the Infantry Pulse due to having similar HP as Yuri, all so Yuri can pull off an AoE Special build that is better done by other units that need less support.

 

1 hour ago, XRay said:

My Ike: Brave Mercenary +Spd can hit 70 Spd at max Merges and Flowers with Lucina: Brave Princess support and three Spd Mythics, and Chill Spd on one of the Mythics can swing it 76.

Excuse me if I say that I'm not sold on a team that consists of Brave Ike, Brave Lucina, 3 Plumerias, and either a Reginn or Ashera when most teams with a Selena on it have both Legendary Sigurd and Duo Lif, and when Selena typically runs Windsweep.

I'm more willing to believe Brave Ike, Brave Lucina, 2 Peonies, Ulir, and one free slot for Flayn or something, but even that's still pushing it.

Having a single tank plus 5 squishies is not exactly a believable team to use against one of the most mobile defense team compositions in the current meta.

 

1 hour ago, XRay said:

A different faster tank should have no issue reaching even higher Spd with less investment.

A faster tank will necessarily have less bulk, both because it needs to give up Def and Res to bolster its Spd and because nothing faster than Brave Ike has as much damage reduction as Brave Ike.

So no, I still don't think it's reasonable.

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32 minutes ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

April had another Legendary

M!Byleth was in June, while Sigurd was the April Legendary this year.

April 2020 did have a Three Houses Legendary though (Edelgard).

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22 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

M!Byleth was in June, while Sigurd was the April Legendary this year.

April 2020 did have a Three Houses Legendary though (Edelgard).

Oh yeah, that's right. Why did I think April 2021 was Byleth? Guess that's just how bad the TH overload has been, it's all blending together.

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53 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

And both of those not only require an Ally Support to pull off, but potentially also need HP manipulation to land the Infantry Pulse due to having similar HP as Yuri, all so Yuri can pull off an AoE Special build that is better done by other units that need less support.

Other Blazing nukes do not have the mobility and support capabilities that he does. In modes like Aether Raids where you have a bunch of team slots to cover each other's weaknesses and the ability to counter pick on top of all that, nukes do not need to clear 100% of foes on their own like in PvE with triple Dancer/Singer support. Raw damage nukes just needs to be good enough to clear out most things rather than everything, as Firesweep and tank busting teammates can handle more problematic ones.

53 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Excuse me if I say that I'm not sold on a team that consists of Brave Ike, Brave Lucina, 3 Plumerias, and either a Reginn or Ashera when most teams with a Selena on it have both Legendary Sigurd and Duo Lif, and when Selena typically runs Windsweep.

If you see a well invested cav line, then do not use a traditional super tank team. This is easier said than done as a Galeforce team is not exactly cheap to build or easy to use, but a player should have at least two team per Season, or at least build towards a second team.

I see Selenas outside of cav lines too in mixed teams. Not everyone got the resources to make an effective cav line, so they do their best with whatever they have on hand for a mixed team.

53 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

A faster tank will necessarily have less bulk, both because it needs to give up Def and Res to bolster its Spd and because nothing faster than Brave Ike has as much damage reduction as Brave Ike.

So no, I still don't think it's reasonable.

Super tanks can offload not only Special charge+1 to Lucina: Brave Princess and Hilda: Deer's Two-Piece, they can also offload Dodge to Flayn and Nifl, and Null Follow-Up to Byleth: The Fódlan Star.

A unit with Special charge+1 on their Weapon can still have two stacks of Dodge using Spurn and Flayn/Nifl and simulate what Ike: Brave Mercenary-Lucina: Brave Mercenary can do, and they are not as vulnerable to having one of their stacks of Dodge disabled by Hardy Bearing.

Eirika: Twin Refulgence has mini Aether in her Weapon, so she does not even care about having a damage Special nor Special charge+1, have Spurn and Flayn/Nifl for two stacks of Dodge, and her Special slot is free too so you can run Sacred Cowl or Aegis for even more damage reduction.

Edited by XRay

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