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Jotari

Writing Around The Blood Pact

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So it would be a bit of an understatement to say that people have issues with the Blood Pact. It is largely seen as a horrible vague and contrived plot point done to force the conflict. The problem is, the Ike Micaiah conflict is a pretty central part of the game. So it sort of begs the question, what would be a better way to incite the conflict that would end in the same result. Namely

*Daein decides to ally with the former oppressors Begnion

*Daein continues to fight for the Begnion Senate even after Sanaki joins Ike's army.

*The conflict stops as soon as the apocalypse occurs.

*Izuka needs to be culpable in some way, or have some other reason to vanish off until wrapping up lose end time in Part 4 (though really his departure is pretty haphazardly written as is).

*Naesala needs a reason for another betrayal.

It's a bit of a tough one. If you clicked on this hoping I'd have something written up well...I only decided to make this because the blood pact came up on the unpopular opinions thread. Maybe I'll come up with a solution of my own after getting some inspiration from others. Oh and another hurdle (that actually suggests this shit was planned)

*Ashnard admitting in Path of Radiance that he somehow managed to kill the royal family using a plague still needs to make sense (though I guess one could easily enough argue he just killed his family members and blamed it on a naturally occurring plague).

Edited by Jotari

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Might as well. This is what I suggested years ago in similar threads:

On 11/10/2017 at 8:41 PM, Acacia Sgt said:

There are various way I think I would rewrite the story, not all of them compatible with each other.

To give an example, here's how I would rewrite the whole "Daein helps Begnion" thing of Part 3. It's even Blood Pact compatible for those that would care about it. I don't, would remove it altogether.

Anyway, Part 1 reveals Sanaki was not aware about what the Imperial Occupation Army was doing to Daein. And the Senate, naturally, lies they weren't either. Anyway, what I would do is that once everything is said and done, Sanaki (I would think she has not yet to "disappear" before the end Part 1, and if not, then it just gets delayed to until after Part 1 is over) would make a deal with Pelleas that, as reparations for the deeds the IOA did, Begnion itself would provide the bulk of the rebuilding the country back to its feet, perhaps even to little or not cost. After all, Daein would need funds and resources to get back on its feet, something they may not be able to aquire on their own.

Anyway, fast-forward to Part 3, the war begins. Begnion may or may not be capable of keep helping Daein out since it has to concentrate on the war, but the Senate being the Senate would use this to their advantage, stopping the reparations anyway and delivering messages to Daein that because of the Laguz, they can't afford to keep sending aid. Remember, messenger-killing aside, it was the Laguz the ones who declared war and were the aggressors at first, with Begnion on the defensive. So, for the common Daein citizen, already carrying baggage with their laguz prejudice, start to really blame it on the Laguz their aid got cut-off, making rebuilding Daein slowing down and becoming harder. As Part 3 develops those feeling stew across Daein. Then, the Senate pulls Step 2, and declare they can send aid once more, but on the condition Daein in return helps them out in the war, since it would stave off the preassure on Begnion to free up resources for other things, like the reparations. Pelleas may or may not think it's a good idea to get involved in the war (if the Blood Pact is kept, just do it like the game, only instead Lekain uses it as insurance, while the official/public word is about resuming the reparations in exchange for help), but the people of Daein are now in the point of wanting to get involved. If it's needed to make it more believable, I'd also make it so that the Senate cutting off the aid really made a big negative impact on Daein's reconstruciton (it's not like Daein could really seek help elsewhere; they wouldn't ask the Laguz, and Crimea was weary of seeing Daein rise again). Pelleas would still be too meek to say no to his people, not to mention, the reparations were a big help and he too would be glad if they can resume, so he think it is for the best. And Micaiah, as always, places her duty above her feelings. After this, things can go mostly like in the game. Even if Begnion's civil war by 3-10 cuts off aid again, the people of Daein are too involved with their bigotry and believing the Senate's lies (remember, the 3-11 boss showed they too considered Sanaki a false Apostle and considered her a traitor for siding with the laguz; well, the falst apostle thing was true, but that's not the point) that it's already too late to tell them to back down (of course, the Blood Pact if it's kept would also still be a thing, at least for Pelleas and Micaiah). Or maybe, they only think the people Daein wouldn't comply, and don't think trying wouldn't make things worse.

As an aside, these changes would serve as a lesson for those two. That as leaders, they sometimes have to do things their people may not want, but it's for their best. And that giving in too much on what the people want instead of being more firm on saying "no", it could backfire.

And well, that's just one way I'd rewrite Part 3.

So yeah, pretty much.

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14 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Might as well. This is what I suggested years ago in similar threads:

So yeah, pretty much.

I like it, I like it a lot. Makes Begnion less of the oppressor, while still keeping virtually everything from Part 1 and gives Daein a reason to get involved for their own reasons and benefit.

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The blood pact is perfectly fine and doesn't need any changes.

While I understand people's dislike of it in concept, in execution I can't find fault with it for two main reason:

  • It's set up; all of part 1 is basically a ploy to get Daein under Begnion's control while thinking they have autonomy.
  • It's used; and not just the one, but the whole idea of blood pacts in general. Ashnard used one way back in the day, Kilvas has been under one forever (explaining why Naesala keeps being shitty).

If it had been a one-off thing that just randomly came up in part 3 to force Daein into the war with no setup and no existence otherwise, I wouldn't like it. But it's not. So-called "solutions" people come up with tend to have their own problems and end up being no better, so I'm sticking by the pact.

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Honestly, what bothers me the most about the whole thing is not the blood pact itself but how Micaiah never questions Pelleas and how he isn't forced to explain until Sothe threatens to take her away by force after she collapses. She just assumes that Pelleas has a good reason to obey the senate despite the fact that Daein has nothing to gain from it. And she's right, but given how Micaiah is characterized up until the end of part 1 I just can't buy that she could in good conscience go slaughter Laguz without knowing beyond a shred of doubt that there's literally no other choice.

Even if Micaiah's powers as the true apostle and/or her Heron heritage lets her read Pelleas' feelings and know he means well (and that he isn't lying about the blood pact), I still find her to be way too trusting.

But if anything, I think the most contrived part of the entire story is not the existance of the blood pact but rather the fact that Micaiah and Sothe didn't get rid of Izuka before he could trick Pelleas into signing the pact. Not only should have Micaiah been able to tell he was up to no good, Izuka out right admits what he did to Muarim, he also admits that he's responsible for creating the feral drug and that he's behind the carnage that Sothe (presumably) saw at Gritnea Tower in PoR. Tauroneo should have been there too, so surely he knew the caliber of man Izuka was once the atrocities he was responsible for came to light, and by Izuka's own admission no less. No matter how much the naive Pelleas trusted Izuka, Micaiah and Sothe should have killed him on the spot. Or at the very least they should have forced Pelleas to chase Izuka out. 

I feel like the only reason all the commanders of the Daein army grabbed the idiot ball and allowed Izuka to remain at Pelleas' side despite everyone knowing he was an evil, scheming bastard is because if they didn't then there would have been no blood pact and the story would have ended somewhere in late part 3.

I understand why people think that the blood pact itself is contrived too, but if I could change anything, I would have changed Izuka with someone more convincing (so that I could actually believe that everyone in Daein was fooled and not just Pelleas). Izuka could still exist in the story and work in the background like he did in PoR, or maybe even still act as an advisor for Pelleas but never show his face around anyone else so that no one in Daein could clearly see that their king is being advised by a total madman.

Edited by GonzoMD1993

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As mentioned by others before, I also don't believe the blood pact needs to be scrapped. I would've personally liked some more clear references to it before the reveal, like a more clear presence of the plagues preceding Asnard's and Neasala's reigns. But the blood pact itself wasn't too bad imo. Even Micaiah following Pelleas would be understandable knowing she can read his heart.

Though GonzoMD1993 above makes a good point when it comes to Izuka, haven't really thought of that before. With Micaiah's abilities, and the moment he used his feral poison on Maurim, he should have been expelled by everyone. Of course this doesn't have to ruin the blood pact, as it could've easily been written that Izuka tricked Pelleas into signing it before he'd get chased off.

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15 hours ago, Florete said:

The blood pact is perfectly fine and doesn't need any changes.

While I understand people's dislike of it in concept, in execution I can't find fault with it for two main reason:

  • It's set up; all of part 1 is basically a ploy to get Daein under Begnion's control while thinking they have autonomy.
  • It's used; and not just the one, but the whole idea of blood pacts in general. Ashnard used one way back in the day, Kilvas has been under one forever (explaining why Naesala keeps being shitty).

If it had been a one-off thing that just randomly came up in part 3 to force Daein into the war with no setup and no existence otherwise, I wouldn't like it. But it's not. So-called "solutions" people come up with tend to have their own problems and end up being no better, so I'm sticking by the pact.

I think one of the things that people have the most issue with is that it works via nation states. Which are entirely a social construct. It just brings up a lot of weird questions like could one avoid the plague by leaving the borders or changing their nationality or even changing the name of the kingdom. If it were a more conventional form of magically induced biological warfare then it'd probably be more palatable.

14 hours ago, GonzoMD1993 said:

Honestly, what bothers me the most about the whole thing is not the blood pact itself but how Micaiah never questions Pelleas and how he isn't forced to explain until Sothe threatens to take her away by force after she collapses. She just assumes that Pelleas has a good reason to obey the senate despite the fact that Daein has nothing to gain from it. And she's right, but given how Micaiah is characterized up until the end of part 1 I just can't buy that she could in good conscience go slaughter Laguz without knowing beyond a shred of doubt that there's literally no other choice.

Even if Micaiah's powers as the true apostle and/or her Heron heritage lets her read Pelleas' feelings and know he means well (and that he isn't lying about the blood pact), I still find her to be way too trusting.

But if anything, I think the most contrived part of the entire story is not the existance of the blood pact but rather the fact that Micaiah and Sothe didn't get rid of Izuka before he could trick Pelleas into signing the pact. Not only should have Micaiah been able to tell he was up to no good, Izuka out right admits what he did to Muarim, he also admits that he's responsible for creating the feral drug and that he's behind the carnage that Sothe (presumably) saw at Gritnea Tower in PoR. Tauroneo should have been there too, so surely he knew the caliber of man Izuka was once the atrocities he was responsible for came to light, and by Izuka's own admission no less. No matter how much the naive Pelleas trusted Izuka, Micaiah and Sothe should have killed him on the spot. Or at the very least they should have forced Pelleas to chase Izuka out. 

I feel like the only reason all the commanders of the Daein army grabbed the idiot ball and allowed Izuka to remain at Pelleas' side despite everyone knowing he was an evil, scheming bastard is because if they didn't then there would have been no blood pact and the story would have ended somewhere in late part 3.

I understand why people think that the blood pact itself is contrived too, but if I could change anything, I would have changed Izuka with someone more convincing (so that I could actually believe that everyone in Daein was fooled and not just Pelleas). Izuka could still exist in the story and work in the background like he did in PoR, or maybe even still act as an advisor for Pelleas but never show his face around anyone else so that no one in Daein could clearly see that their king is being advised by a total madman.

I think the game does a decent enough job explaining why that never happens given Pelleas's appreciation of Izuka for rising him out of the dirt. And I think it'd be outright out of character for Micaiah or Sothe to just straight up murder one of their allies. Pelleas might be a bit of a pushover, but he's still their king, the one they're fighting for. Killing someone under his protection just would not fly. Micaiah has a hard enough time not accidentally usurping him as is, imagine how Daein would react if they found out she was actively murdering the king's friends based on her own personal judgements.

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1 hour ago, Jotari said:

I think the game does a decent enough job explaining why that never happens given Pelleas's appreciation of Izuka for rising him out of the dirt. And I think it'd be outright out of character for Micaiah or Sothe to just straight up murder one of their allies. Pelleas might be a bit of a pushover, but he's still their king, the one they're fighting for. Killing someone under his protection just would not fly. Micaiah has a hard enough time not accidentally usurping him as is, imagine how Daein would react if they found out she was actively murdering the king's friends based on her own personal judgements.

Yeah, no, murder is a nono. But relieving him of his duties I could see happen once Micaiah tells Pelleas of her powers. At least she should know Izuka was manipulating him, as long as Pelleas still worships Izuka.

At least in my eyes it would be best if Micaiah was able to convince Pelleas around 1x08, having Pelleas make that final decision. Then in part 3 we'd learn that Izuka had Pelleas sign the blood contract way before Micaiah and Pelleas even met.

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4 hours ago, whase said:

Yeah, no, murder is a nono. But relieving him of his duties I could see happen once Micaiah tells Pelleas of her powers. At least she should know Izuka was manipulating him, as long as Pelleas still worships Izuka.

At least in my eyes it would be best if Micaiah was able to convince Pelleas around 1x08, having Pelleas make that final decision. Then in part 3 we'd learn that Izuka had Pelleas sign the blood contract way before Micaiah and Pelleas even met.

But Micaiah never really gets a vision of Izuka planning something nefarious to Pelleas. And as far as his loyalties go he's actually been consistently with Daein up until this point. He worked for Ashnard and now he's working for Ashnard's son. They're disgusted by what he did to the Laguz and Muriam, but as far as his action go it has all been in support of the cause. If I were to complain about anything regarding Izuka it would be how much of a caricature he kind of is. Every single interaction has him supporting the most evil manner of going about the war and Micaiah objecting (and considering Micaiah gets her way every single time when it comes to those meetings there's even less reason for her to see any need to oust him), it'd be nice if he was right about his pragmatism on a few occasions. He's kind of right about the swamp being a trap, but Micaiah doesn't really care and that ends up being completely successful for  her anyway. The only other time he's shown to have something resembling a credible point is, I think near the end, where he gives Micaiah a reality check on how much she's been unintentionally displacing Pelleas, which causes Pelleas to step up and give a motivating speech. It would have been nice to have Micaiah's dedication to the moral solution and Izuka's dedication to the pragmatic solution result in reality leaning towards Izuka more as Mciaiah's decisions result in a mistake or blowback. This would also lend better to when she herself goes for the more pragmatic tactics in Part 3 as it shows her becoming more like Izuka, but more pointedly, that there's a reason to do so because it's shown to work in some way. But to fit in something like that you'd need another few chapters and that's one of the issues with Part 1 as a whole. It does feel a bit on the rushed side. Though they probably could have fitted an extra chapter's worth of plot into the part given there's essentially nothing happening in terms of story in Raise the Standard Part 1.

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7 hours ago, Jotari said:

I think one of the things that people have the most issue with is that it works via nation states. Which are entirely a social construct. It just brings up a lot of weird questions like could one avoid the plague by leaving the borders or changing their nationality or even changing the name of the kingdom. If it were a more conventional form of magically induced biological warfare then it'd probably be more palatable.

I just got reminded now of this crack-fic where both Pelleas and Naesala escape from their Blood Pacts by dissolving their countries then reorganize them with a different name. Documents mention the nations of Daeins and Kilvas? Nope, sorry, those countries no longer exist. Now they're... sadly, I forgot what new names they took, but the point was that it worked. lol

---

To bring up another problem with the Blood Pacts is that they effectively rob the characters of agency. Naesala isn't betraying the alliance out of a sense of thinking war with Begnion is futile, or that Begnion made a compelling offer to switch sides. Nope, it's a magic piece of paper dictating he has to do what Begnion tells him to do else his kingdom dies a drawn-out death. The worst part is that the game doesn't even make use of this. The ravens save for the playable ones (and whatever feral ones show up in Izuka's map) literally disappear from the plot and never show up again.

Same for Daein. The writers wanted their cake and eat it too in having an Ike vs Micaiah conflict but then made Micaiah also a heroic character which, even with her disdain to Ike, she wouldn't outright want to fight him. Yet she has to, because a magical piece of paper is telling her country they have to get involved. As I mentioned in the unpopular opinions thread, they also flanderized Daein's attitudes towards the Laguz, making the Blood Pact a moot point anyway. Daein should've revolted against Pelleas for telling them to side with their former oppressors, even if it is to fight against the Laguz. Not when those three years of discrimination and oppression are still fresh in their minds, that they just fought an independence war, and they aren't in shape to join another war right after. Instead they get turned into the battered spouse of Begnion with Stockholm syndrome to boot. Which can still be salvaged for a more nuanced reason to make Daein join the war despite Pelleas' wishes... but instead the writers took the easy route by just forcing the conflict with the Blood Pact.

Edited by Acacia Sgt

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9 hours ago, Jotari said:

I think one of the things that people have the most issue with is that it works via nation states. Which are entirely a social construct. It just brings up a lot of weird questions like could one avoid the plague by leaving the borders or changing their nationality or even changing the name of the kingdom. If it were a more conventional form of magically induced biological warfare then it'd probably be more palatable.

While I do see that brought up on occasion, it's definitely not people's main issue. And I don't think it's a big deal; we're dealing with magic here, we can assume it's able to identify what the people acknowledge as nation borders and who considers themself a member of said nation. Sure, you can probably still ask some questions about how it works, but you can nitpick anything.

As far as the idea of changing the name, though, that's easy. It's a contract, it just needs to specify something like "the nation ruled by the person under the pact."

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To give credit to that, we sorta know Naesala avoided the Senate by simply obeying Sanaki. Since regardless of her status as Apostle, she is still the legitimate Empress and ruler of the country and thus her word supercedes that of the Senators. The Daein Blood Pact was likely worded to close that loophole, hence why voiding that one only required Lekain's death, but Kilvas' Blood Pact remained active (as seen in the Extended Script), since it was written with Begnion in mind, not Lekain personally. Which then might become moot since Kilvas ceased to exist anyway when the birds returned to Serenes.

Legal Writing is a magic of its own I suppose. Just look at Disney's Princess and the Frog. XD

Edited by Acacia Sgt

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I think what bothers me the most about the Blood Pacts is that they are so insanely powerful and very abstract at the same time. They are all created off-screen, with no possible struggle to prevent them to be made in the first place, and while "people die" certainly is a very real impact, the means aren't elaborated on at all. The Bloodpact can identify who is a Daein / Kilvas citizen because magic. It can then specifically target those citizens through magic. It then kills them because magic. It kills a certain, ever-increasing amount of people, because magic. There is nothing tangible causing the deaths, it's just magic.

As far as apocalyptic spells go in JRPGs, it's not that egregious in terms of power, but when Pretty Evil Guy is trying to summon a ginormous meteor to crash into the planet, that's at least an effect that you can see and that "makes sense", in a way. The spell has a visible, concrete effect, and it's reasonable to assume that the effect will kill all humans.

So as far as I'm concerned, I wish that the Magic Ex Machina that forces Daein to join Begnion's side would have more presence, so to speak. Maybe make it more personal - a death curse put on Micaiah personally (which could be plausible if the senators had any personal items of her before she vanished from Begnion, for example) and Pelleas doesn't have the balls to either condemn Micaiah or tell her what's up. If that's not big enough, give Begnion access to some sort of magic nuke that's hidden in Daein's capital, and Miccy+Co have to be secretive until they find a way to block the trigger at least temporarily. But not some super-powerful conjuration where the only logic and causality seems to be "it's magic LOL".

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I think one suggestion I've heard thrown around over the years would be if, during the occupation, Begnion set up a method to leak the feral drug into the nation's reservoirs. This would still link Izuka as culpable, it would use a pre-established world element and, most importantly, it would give them a method of destroying an entire nation that is specific to Daein (Kilvas...eh there could be some other reason for Naesala's betrayal. Honestly I like the idea of him being a capricious ally rather more than him just being bad because he's blackmailed)

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I'm not 100% sure this is fact, but I recall hearing that in the original Japanese script, the Blood Pact was completely forgotten within the story. As in, after it was introduce to force Daein to join the war & after Pellas killed himself, it's just never mentioned again or resolved. That may also explain why we the audience never actually see the Blood Pact do anything. We're just told it can kill people but within the game, we never actually see it happening even though in Part 4, Micaiah & the Daein army is clearly acting against the senate desires and the senate knows this.

Also, a personal rewrite to get around the blood pact (and my fan-fic of giving Micaiah more agency within the story)

Part 2

  • The people of Crimea should be extremely worried about Daein's revolution, as they shouldn't be on good of terms with each other.
  • Instead of the political opponent of Elincia biggest issue is that she's just a 'weak' leader, let it be that she's 'weak' because she refuses to declare war against Daein who has just gone through a complete revolution against the agree conditions after the war, something of which I assume Crimea at the minimum also agreed to.
  • Then the political rival can attack Daein's borders, prompting Daein to want to attack back, sending Micaiah & her army to fight. But Elincia wants peace, manages to to reach an agreement with Micaiah to not start a war (since Micaiah also doesn't want a fight as Daein is literally trying to rebuild itself)
    • Note: It greatly disappoint me that these two main female lead never actually have a conversation with each other. Also, it also greatly disappoint me that Crimea is just treated as if it holds no ill will towards Daein for literally invading their nation.
  • After that, the political rival can try to kill Elincia & Micaiah during their talk because Elincia is 'working' with the enemy & Micaiah is a important military figure for Daein. It fails, and the two ladies part ways. (Ike doesn't appear to save the day)
  • Though war did not erupt between Crimea and Daein, tension between the two nation still exist. Also to make a point, Micaiah mentions they are having a few small attacks from Laguz (which will later turn out to be feral laguz that Izuba is causing)

Part 3

  • Ike returns, along with the Laguz, revealing they have uncovered the senators actions, which prompts the war.
  • Crimea joins the alliance right away (they don't sit out of it for awhile), since Elincia is also applauded by the senators actions & does want to pay back those who actually helped her regain her nation 3 years ago.
  • Begnion manages to sent up an impressive defensive front, preventing the alliance from marching through Begnion, so they decide to march through Daein (due to it being a lost closer and less guarded). They manage to talk with Micaiah & Sothe in sercet, since Micaiah now has a relationship with someone within the Laguz Alliance (Elincia) & Sothe with his previous adventure with Ike.
  • Being urged by Sothe, Micaiah promises to 'turn a blind eye' at the Laguz Alliance as long as they don't cause issues in Daein.
  • We make a point that Skirmir hates being insulted, and show that Daein citizen are willing to insult him. During the Alliance travel across Daein, feral Iaguz attack a Daein city, killing a lot of Daein citizens.
  • The alliance think maybe Skrmir has lost his control, but he claims he didn't do anything. Regardless, this causes the people of Daein to view the alliance as an invading force, which forces Micaiah's hand into fighting the Alliance.
    • With Crimea recent attack at Daein (in Part 2), and their general distrust of Laguz, especially after multiple attacks from feral Lagzu that they believe are coming from the Laguz alliance, I believe this is a strong enough cause for Daein's people to view the Laguz alliance as an invading force.
  • Also, Micaiah is actually kind of hurt because she believes they betrayal their trust. It's not like she started with the highest views of the Laguz alliance or Ike, so along with her patriotism and the demands of Pellas to fulfill the people's desire to seek revenge against the Laguz alliance, this is what causes her to remain the course of fighting the the Laguz alliance.
  • Micaiah and Pellas are aware that a fight with the Laguz alliance by themselves is basically suicided as they are massively outnumbered, which is what prompts them to side with Begnion. Though Daein and Begnion aren't at great terms with each other, the Daein side is willing to have a non-aggression pact for the time being to stop the 'Laguz' invasion. 
    • We can now have a few chapters in which Micaiah & Zelgius converse with each other, and develop a bond, and develop that plot point of Zelgius trying to recruit Micaiah into the bigger agenda. 
    • Also, maybe we can have a chapter in which Micaiah and Zelgius work side by side to fight the Laguz. I would like that. Also, we can make the Black Knight reveal through this as Micaiah can tell that they are the same people, but keeps it a secrets because Zelgius helped them reclaim Daein, and that he asks her to not reveal it as the two share traits that they both want to keep hidden from the public.
  • The war continues, with the Laguz alliance being still unable to break through Zelgius and the Begnion. They figure out that the Feral laguz attacking Danie are being caused by Izuba & the senators, so they make an attempt to inform Micaiah about the truth and that Danie is being used by the senators, but she refuses to budge from her stance, forcing them into an all-out fight that results in the awaking of Ashera.  Zelgius isn't there when the battle takes place.
  • Bla, bla, bla, I'm not sure how to get the dragons involved in this war. Maybe Almedha's (Pelleas mother) has a role in gaining a few of the dragons to aid them.

Part 4

  • I personally would like it that Micaiah has like a personal break-down upon seeing what her actions had caused when she had the chance to back down. Basically accepting her death at the hands of someone like Skrmir who wants to kill her. Sothe will try to protect her, but it is ultimately Elinica who manages to set aside the tension between Micaiah & the Laguz army. 
    • Ike probably wouldn't hold a grudge against Micaiah, but I think many of the Laguz would.
  • Micaiah can reveal to the group that Zelgius mention about this, and the group figures out where they need to go with that information. Maybe Sanaki can make her appearance at this point of the story which helps them piece together what happened.
  • Yuen (Chaos) does not take control over Micaiah for most of this part. Also, I personally don't care about Micaiah being the true Apsotle (as it comes super late in the game, and more or less have little importance within the story)

 

Edited by Clear World

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2 hours ago, Clear World said:

I'm not 100% sure this is fact, but I recall hearing that in the original Japanese script, the Blood Pact was completely forgotten within the story. As in, after it was introduce to force Daein to join the war & after Pellas killed himself, it's just never mentioned again or resolved. That may also explain why we the audience never actually see the Blood Pact do anything. We're just told it can kill people but within the game, we never actually see it happening even though in Part 4, Micaiah & the Daein army is clearly acting against the senate desires and the senate knows this.

There's a CG showing Micaiah tearing it up, so I highly doubt the Japanese script just ignored the entire thing. Unless that one CG was  made for the international release, not inconceivable, they did invent weapons for the Dawn Brigade, but  pretty unlikely given the English script was the paired down script compared to the Japanese one.

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In Act 4 the Blood Pact isn't activated because Lekain doesn't see much use. 99% of Daein is protected by being statues, and the number of un-petrified people is only a small fraction of Yune's army, he may think it won't be of much help. And he can't activate the Kilvas one since Naesala is still fulfilling his end so long he obeys Sanaki. As it is, it'd be only a minor help at best he thinks its worthless. The other reason is that... would you want for all the Daein characters to be permanently lost as you progress through Part 4? That would not be a good move gameplay wise, so it doesn't happen.

Edited by Acacia Sgt

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19 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

In Act 4 the Blood Pact isn't activated because Lekain doesn't see much use. 99% of Daein is protected by being statues, and the number of un-petrified people is only a small fraction of Yune's army, he may think it won't be of much help. And he can't activate the Kilvas one since Naesala is still fulfilling his end so long he obeys Sanaki. As it is, it'd be only a minor help at best he thinks its worthless. The other reason is that... would you want for all the Daein characters to be permanently lost as you progress through Part 4? That would not be a good move gameplay wise, so it doesn't happen.

The fact that they're dealing in smaller numbers is actually much more to Lekain's advantage in part 4, as the pact works by killing an increasing number of people each day and thus has better odds of killing the most important people. I can't remember if we're given any numbers for travel times, but assuming it takes as little as two weeks to travel from Daein to Sienne, that's over a hundred people dead. Probably the entirety of the Daeini characters, maybe around a third of the makeshift army, completely wiped out. Lekain has every reason to use the bloodpact. Even if it takes half that time and is only killing two dozen or so people, it's still worth using it as there's a very decent chance of it hitting Micaiah or someone else of importance (well actually it can't hit Micaiah because she's the one bearing the mark for it, but I don't think Lekain knows that, especially in the canon wherein Pelleas is still alive). A much better explanation than "killing your enemies remotely with zero danger to oneself isn't worth the effort" is that Sephiran didn't want the blood pact to be invoked as it could potentially kill Micaiah and Sephiran still wants Micaiah alive. There's also a chance that it could kill Zelgius as he was born and raised in Daein, and one could argue that in terms of canon strength he alone is worth about as much as all the Daein forces still alive at that point in terms of combat prowess.

Edited by Jotari

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4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

The fact that they're dealing in smaller numbers is actually much more to Lekain's advantage in part 4, as the pact works by killing an increasing number of people each day and thus has better odds of killing the most important people. I can't remember if we're given any numbers for travel times, but assuming it takes as little as two weeks to travel from Daein to Sienne, that's over a hundred people dead. Probably the entirety of the Daeini characters, maybe around a third of the makeshift army, completely wiped out. Lekain has every reason to use the bloodpact. Even if it takes half that time and is only killing two dozen or so people, it's still worth using it as there's a very decent chance of it hitting Micaiah or someone else of importance (well actually it can't hit Micaiah because she's the one bearing the mark for it, but I don't think Lekain knows that, especially in the canon wherein Pelleas is still alive). A much better explanation than "killing your enemies remotely with zero danger to oneself isn't worth the effort" is that Sephiran didn't want the blood pact to be invoked as it could potentially kill Micaiah and Sephiran still wants Micaiah alive. There's also a chance that it could kill Zelgius as he was born and raised in Daein, and one could argue that in terms of canon strength he alone is worth about as much as all the Daein forces still alive at that point in terms of combat prowess.

It's the typical "villain doesn't do this to win or win easier else there'd be no game". True, there'd still be the rest of the army, but the game won't make you lose a good number of units with circumstances out of your control without a good reason or compensation. The only way they could implement this is if somehow a full contingent of Daein soldiers/people were also spared the petrification, and they are the ones who die on the way to Sienne, with all the PC's spared due to plot armor.

Edited by Acacia Sgt

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1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

It's the typical "villain doesn't do this to win or win easier else there'd be no game". True, there'd still be the rest of the army, but the game won't make you lose a good number of units with circumstances out of your control without a good reason or compensation. The only way they could implement this is if somehow a full contingent of Daein soldiers/people were also spared the petrification, and they are the ones who die on the way to Sienne, with all the PC's spared due to plot armor.

Oh I'm not suggesting it would remotely be a good idea to implement it as some kind of gameplay mechanic. At least not whole sale with just the Dawn Brigade units you've been training up all game. I'm just saying Lekain personally has absolutely no reason not to as it doesn't cost him anything and even if the benefits don't grant an effortless victory, they are still reasonably large benefits of invoking it. That being said, Sephiran having some form of authority over Lekain is a reasonable enough headcanon for me to explain why Lekain never does it. Another Headcanon one could use is that Lekain does in fact invoke the blood pact, but the pact still identifies and targets the petrified citizens. Only the citizens can't die from a disease since they're stones. But a certain number are targeted each day and by favourable odds, none of the people in Yune's army are hit. That's what Micaiah seems to be betting on.

Edited by Jotari

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2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Oh I'm not suggesting it would remotely be a good idea to implement it as some kind of gameplay mechanic. At least not whole sale with just the Dawn Brigade units you've been training up all game. I'm just saying Lekain personally has absolutely no reason not to as it doesn't cost him anything and even if the benefits don't grant an effortless victory, they are still reasonably large benefits of invoking it. That being said, Sephiran having some form of authority over Lekain is a reasonable enough headcanon for me to explain why Lekain never does it.

I'm not so sure on that. Throughout RD we see Lekain has contempt of Sephiran. Though it was part of the latter's plan, Lekain did had Sephiran arrested. Once de-petrified I don't think Lekain would be content to follow his orders. In fact, is there even anything pointing Lekain or any of the other senators knew Sephiran was among the non-petrified?

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1 minute ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I'm not so sure on that. Throughout RD we see Lekain has contempt of Sephiran. Though it was part of the latter's plan, Lekain did had Sephiran arrested. Once de-petrified I don't think Lekain would be content to follow his orders. In fact, is there even anything pointing Lekain or any of the other senators knew Sephiran was among the non-petrified?

They're following the orders of Ashera who Sephiran has the inner ear of.

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Just now, Jotari said:

They're following the orders of Ashera who Sephiran has the inner ear of.

Depends if Ashera cares. She already revived the Disciples of Orders to kill them anyway. Would she really make an exception for Sephiran?

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2 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Depends if Ashera cares. She already revived the Disciples of Orders to kill them anyway. Would she really make an exception for Sephiran?

If Sephiran can convince her Micaiah (and possibly Zelguis) is worth keeping alive, yes.

Edited by Jotari

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2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

If Sephiran can convince her Micaiah (and possibly Zelguis) is worth keeping alive, yes.

With all the game shows us... I highly doubt it. Sephiran may try, but I don't think she'll be convinced. At no point she gives any exception to anyone not Sephiran. She unleashed her judgement without consulting with Yune despite that being the accord if they were woken up with the galdr, she intends to petrify again the Disciples of Order once their use is done, she dismisses the Branded's existence as a sign that Beorc and Laguz can coexist, she's willing to get rid of Yune's heroes up to the very last moment. She's never convinced of anything, she's forced back to sleep instead. Only once both of them return to being Ashunera is there a sign she's more willing to listen to reason. Before that? Not a chance.

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