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Your ideas on remakes in general?

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9 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

One thing I'm excited about for the Genealogy remake is that, if the pattern holds, then they'll stop nerfing hit rate calcs into oblivion. every time they remake an old game, they seem to get more and more confident that the hit formula of that game was genius, to the point that now we're back at 1 to 1. Remaking Genealogy might finally convince these people to go back to double.

One thing I'm terrified of is that they'll remake Genealogy before they get it through their heads that making the turnwheel a canon concept is pointless and a plot-eating monster. If they give Sigurd the power to see the future or rewind time, the story is most likely going to become a hilarious shitshow.

They will probably just give the protagonists a turn wheel like they did in Echoes. The turn wheel makes it a lot easier for newcomers to get into the series, especially for an older title like Genealogy, which has a huge maps. 

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14 minutes ago, ZeManaphy said:

They will probably just give the protagonists a turn wheel like they did in Echoes. The turn wheel makes it a lot easier for newcomers to get into the series, especially for an older title like Genealogy, which has a huge maps. 

That simply cannot happen unquestioned due to the nature of what happens in Genealogy of the Holy War. They can't give Sigurd and Seliph a magical amulet of divine prophecy from the gods and still have the story happen the way it does, unless something like this happens:

As long as the turnwheel is a canon part of the story, there is no comfortable way to avoid the discussion about just how much goes horribly wrong in that story without any warning. So either they just make rewinds a gameplay mechanic that the protagonist can't canonically do in-story, or they address it in an honest and satisfying way.

Edited by Alastor15243

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14 minutes ago, ZeManaphy said:

They will probably just give the protagonists a turn wheel like they did in Echoes. The turn wheel makes it a lot easier for newcomers to get into the series, especially for an older title like Genealogy, which has a huge maps. 

10 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

That simply cannot happen unquestioned due to the nature of what happens in Genealogy of the Holy War. They can't give Sigurd and Seliph a magical amulet of divine prophecy from the gods and still have the story happen the way it does, unless something like this happens:

 

Genealogy already lets you save every turn. They will probably just give you unlimited save slots.

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3 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

That simply cannot happen unquestioned due to the nature of what happens in Genealogy of the Holy War. They can't give Sigurd and Seliph a magical amulet of divine prophecy from the gods and still have the story happen the way it does, unless something like this happens:

 

Judging from what you have written, I’m guessing that you are saying that it wouldn’t make sense because it brings up the contradiction that Sigurd could have saved his army from burning to ash. A fair point, but I don’t think it’s a complete counter argument. The scene where everyone is being burnt could have Sigurd trying to use the turn wheel to save everyone, only to realize that in horror that he is out of uses. Or their is some kind of dark magic being used by the Loptyr Church to prevent the turn wheel from working. The point is, I don don’t think it’s impossible to add a turn wheel while also keeping the story intact.

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2 minutes ago, Ghost_06_ said:

Genealogy already lets you save every turn. They will probably just give you unlimited save slots.

Honestly that's what I'm hoping for. Given the nonsense they had to pull to make anything bad happen in Three Houses, I'm hoping they learn their lesson and just use the old non-canon save-scumming mechanic the game already had.

@ZeManaphy I think you're downplaying just how badly, and how frequently, things go horribly wrong in the story of Genealogy. It's a perfect storm of villainous conspiracies where every single victory Sigurd achieves comes at some horrible cost. Divine prophecy would already be hard enough to swallow. Actual literal time rewinding, like in Three Houses, would make the story into a laughable farce with the number of nonsensical excuses they'd have to pull out of their asses for why Sigurd does nothing to stop any of the tragedy that happens along the way.

Edited by Alastor15243

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26 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Honestly that's what I'm hoping for. Given the nonsense they had to pull to make anything bad happen in Three Houses, I'm hoping they learn their lesson and just use the old non-canon save-scumming mechanic the game already had.

@ZeManaphy I think you're downplaying just how badly, and how frequently, things go horribly wrong in the story of Genealogy. It's a perfect storm of villainous conspiracies where every single victory Sigurd achieves comes at some horrible cost. Divine prophecy would already be hard enough to swallow. Actual literal time rewinding, like in Three Houses, would make the story into a laughable farce with the number of nonsensical excuses they'd have to pull out of their asses for why Sigurd does nothing to stop any of the tragedy that happens along the way.

Fine, I will take your word for it. I have never played Genealogy and probably never will. They could do what the switch versions of Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light do and just implement as part of the menu. 

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Genealogy already sort of breaks its rules of divine intervention by having Claude pray for the script to tell him what happens at the end, only for Bragi to arbitrarily not warn them of Alvis's treachery.

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1 minute ago, Jotari said:

Genealogy already sort of breaks its rules of divine intervention by having Claude pray for the script to tell him what happens at the end, only for Bragi to arbitrarily not warn them of Alvis's treachery.

Oh he was warned they were all going to die. He just accepted it and didn't warn anyone except maybe his wife.

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3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Genealogy already sort of breaks its rules of divine intervention by having Claude pray for the script to tell him what happens at the end, only for Bragi to arbitrarily not warn them of Alvis's treachery.

No, he did. Who knows about Arvis in specific, but he totally knows they're marching to their deaths.

Quote

Claude:
“Adean, this is to be our last battle.”

Adean:
“Yes, that’s what everyone’s saying.”

Claude:
“Here, you should have this. Help our young soldiers with it.”

Adean:
“Oh, this is a Rescue Staff. Why me?”

Claude:
“I have yet to speak a word of this, but you being my wife, well… I should probably tell you. This war will end in our defeat. All that is important to us will be lost.”

Adean:
“…What!?”

Claude:
“I, too, had a difficult time believing the Lord’s words when I was at Blagi Tower. But this is how fate will have it. I also will not likely survive. That’s why I’m entrusting this staff to you.”

They already have Braggi related with precognition/clairvoyance abilities, so you can bet that if they implement turn rewound, it will have to do with Braggi. Make Claude visit Sigurd either at Chalphy or Evans, and presto.

Edited by Acacia Sgt

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6 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

No, he did. Who knows about Arvis in specific, but he totally knows they're marching to their deaths.

They already have Braggi related with precognition/clairvoyance abilities, so you can bet that if they implement turn rewound, it will have to do with Braggi. Make Claude visit Sigurd either at Chalphy or Evans, and presto.

Yeah, my point is that Braggi sends them all to their death by telling them about Langbolt and Reptor but arbitrarily ignoring Alvis (and Scipio, but nobody cares about Scipio, not even the other bad guys).

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46 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Yeah, my point is that Braggi sends them all to their death by telling them about Langbolt and Reptor but arbitrarily ignoring Alvis (and Scipio, but nobody cares about Scipio, not even the other bad guys).

Maybe Father Claud never thought to ask about Arvis? Like, he knew Langbart and Reptor to be shady at best, but Arvis seemed chill up until he didn't. Alternatively, perhaps there were some "whims of fate" that Blaggi felt compelled to uphold - he couldn't tell Claud "your army is going to die", while also providing him information to avoid such a death, lest his first oracle be proven false.

1 hour ago, ZeManaphy said:

The scene where everyone is being burnt could have Sigurd trying to use the turn wheel to save everyone, only to realize that in horror that he is out of uses. Or their is some kind of dark magic being used by the Loptyr Church to prevent the turn wheel from working.

This comes across like "Sigurd is given a gun, but he didn't bring enough bullets. Or he did bring enough bullets, except now the bad guys have a bullet-stopping spell we haven't seen until now." In the first case, Sigurd could have averted his fate simply by being better-prepared. In the latter, the protagonist's overpowered ability must be answered by an equally OP move from the enemies. Even though neither ability is necessary for the narrative. Sigurd isn't some "chosen hero", he's just a noble guy who's trying to do right in the world within the bounds of his abilities. 

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

So either they just make rewinds a gameplay mechanic that the protagonist can't canonically do in-story, or they address it in an honest and satisfying way.

Please, just do it this way. Make it an ability of the player, like "End Turn" or "Check Conditions", rather than of any particular character.

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6 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Maybe Father Claud never thought to ask about Arvis? Like, he knew Langbart and Reptor to be shady at best, but Arvis seemed chill up until he didn't. Alternatively, perhaps there were some "whims of fate" that Blaggi felt compelled to uphold - he couldn't tell Claud "your army is going to die", while also providing him information to avoid such a death, lest his first oracle be proven false.

This comes across like "Sigurd is given a gun, but he didn't bring enough bullets. Or he did bring enough bullets, except now the bad guys have a bullet-stopping spell we haven't seen until now." In the first case, Sigurd could have averted his fate simply by being better-prepared. In the latter, the protagonist's overpowered ability must be answered by an equally OP move from the enemies. Even though neither ability is necessary for the narrative. Sigurd isn't some "chosen hero", he's just a noble guy who's trying to do right in the world within the bounds of his abilities. 

Please, just do it this way. Make it an ability of the player, like "End Turn" or "Check Conditions", rather than of any particular character.

Well Claud just says he's going to find out the "truth" of what's going on, which is pretty all encompassing. Though in Bragi's defense, Claud is just trying to find out what happened to Kurth, and Alvis didn't really have any part in that particular assassination. Honestly though I'd prefer Claud's divine revalation were just written out entirely. It doesn't actually help the story at all considering Reptor shows up and betrays Sigurd five minutes later which is reason enough to believe he's behind everything. Just put Claud over on the island because he's seeking the Valkyrie staff due to the king's ailing health or something.

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