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Corrobin
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Well, I just recently unlocked a rather weird new character...

Spoiler

A robotic barrel. Since this game has up until now been a straightforward medieval fantasy setting with the most advanced tech until now being gunpowder, I'm guessing that this is some sort of nod to Final Fantasy Tactics, which I've never played, but I know that Final Fantasy tends to lean into magitech and science fantasy. Is my guess correct?

 

3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Storywise I prefer the visit to chapter Wolffort. I think Patriatte is the main problem. If you stay in the capitol he decides to be a huge Iago who just does all manner of evil for the lulz and thus has to be put down. In the Wolffort chapter he's still evil but there are at least a reason for his actions, and he does have some valid points. He didn't just cause trouble in that stage because he needed to twirl his evil mustache. 

Honestly, While Patriatte was undoubtedly motivated by more than the need to twirl a moustache, I admittedly had trouble understanding Patriatte's point when he gave his big motive rant. I genuinely did not understand why he came to see Wolfort as something to be purged.

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23 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Honestly, While Patriatte was undoubtedly motivated by more than the need to twirl a moustache, I admittedly had trouble understanding Patriatte's point when he gave his big motive rant. I genuinely did not understand why he came to see Wolfort as something to be purged.

I think the situation he feared is akin to that of Michy and Peleas with one hero who the realm owes everything, and one king who's kinda worthless and who got installed directly by the hero. It being so obvious that house Wolfford is the real power behind the throne would lower the prestige and power of the royal family which in Patriatte's case means he has less of an ability to leech off the royal family. He also accurately predicted that Roland is too mentally fragile to rule at that point which would further give rise to the idea that house Wolfford is the real power behind the throne. 

The Wollford people at the docks loudly going on about how worthless Roland was and how great their lord is in comparison is a little dubious since they're Serenoa's own subjects but I think the scene was meant to show the average mood in Glenbrook. 

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29 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think the situation he feared is akin to that of Michy and Peleas with one hero who the realm owes everything, and one king who's kinda worthless and who got installed directly by the hero. It being so obvious that house Wolfford is the real power behind the throne would lower the prestige and power of the royal family which in Patriatte's case means he has less of an ability to leech off the royal family. He also accurately predicted that Roland is too mentally fragile to rule at that point which would further give rise to the idea that house Wolfford is the real power behind the throne. 

The Wollford people at the docks loudly going on about how worthless Roland was and how great their lord is in comparison is a little dubious since they're Serenoa's own subjects but I think the scene was meant to show the average mood in Glenbrook. 

Ah, I see. That makes sense.

By the way, I'm currently trying the mine mission in chapter 16, and I cannot figure out how to get my units to use the minecarts. A minecart can be right next to them and nothing I do can make them enter it on their turn, and I need to use the minecarts in order to get to and defuse the bombs that are in the map on time. How do you get your units to ride the minecarts?

I even tried watching a video of the mission on YouTube and the guy couldn't figure out how to make the playable units ride the minecarts either.

EDIT: Never mind; I found out how to do so. It really is not intuitive (having to select a tile all the way at the other end of the track).

Edited by vanguard333
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33 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Ah, I see. That makes sense.

By the way, I'm currently trying the mine mission in chapter 16, and I cannot figure out how to get my units to use the minecarts. A minecart can be right next to them and nothing I do can make them enter it on their turn, and I need to use the minecarts in order to get to and defuse the bombs that are in the map on time. How do you get your units to ride the minecarts?

I even tried watching a video of the mission on YouTube and the guy couldn't figure out how to make the playable units ride the minecarts either.

I suspect your problem is that you try and put your units in the minecart and then ride with them? Its actually a bit simpler like that. Look closely to your movement tiles. If a unit can ride the minecart then the movement tiles stop before the minecard and then they reappear at the cart's exit point. The windmill lifts in the Falkes chapter works the same way. I remember being a tad confused in both those cases too.

You can see it in practice here

 

Edited by Etrurian emperor
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I have finally beaten the horrible Booker fight. Literally everyone died, but thankfully, my last charcter was able to finish off the final two enemies on their own.

Spoiler

hCCLqm6O_o.jpg

I love Decimal so much. [Height+5] may be situational, but in the right situations? Absolutely incredible. I finally won when I managed to keep it alive past its first turn. That made all the difference. 100+ damage to literally the entire enemy team from safety is nothing to sneeze at.

That was painful. Being a good guy is hard...

56 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Well, I just recently unlocked a rather weird new character...

  Hide contents

A robotic barrel. Since this game has up until now been a straightforward medieval fantasy setting with the most advanced tech until now being gunpowder, I'm guessing that this is some sort of nod to Final Fantasy Tactics, which I've never played, but I know that Final Fantasy tends to lean into magitech and science fantasy. Is my guess correct?

 

The little guy may be bizarre, but also one of my favorite characters in the entire game now.

Spoiler

The concept is hilarious, it's adorable and it's so useful, too. Even if its abilities are unreliable, simply because there are so many of them and it has so much range with them, it's bound to almost always be able to dish out damage. It's also the perfect fit for the obsidian anklet, an accessory that crippled everyone else.

See above if you're interested in an example of what ol' Decimal can do.

 

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9 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I suspect your problem is that you try and put your units in the minecart and then ride with them? Its actually a bit simpler like that. Look closely to your movement tiles. If a unit can ride the minecart then the movement tiles stop before the minecart and then they reappear at the cart's exit point. The windmill lifts in the Falkes chapter works the same way. I remember being a tad confused in both those cases too.

Yeah; I figured out the problem shortly before you replied. Thanks for responding.

I wouldn't know about the Falkes chapter since I chose to protect Roland.

 

Anyway, my first ever bug with this game happened with this chapter: I called a minecart, it finished moving to the place where I called it, and then the game acted as if the cutscene never ended. The character sprites were still animating, so the game wasn't exactly frozen, but nothing would happen and the game was completely unresponsive to any input until I pressed the home button. It was a real shame, as I had gotten some really good loot from the enemy units up until then, and now that loot is gone and the enemy units that dropped them before aren't.

Edited by vanguard333
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Wait, you can tell if you've gotten good loot or not? Am I just blind? All I've ever noticed is the game saying "loot acquired!". It's so unexciting I probably end up focusing on it less than I should.

Some story stuff I'm thinking about, and curious if anyone has any thoughts:

Spoiler

Regna confessing to Dragan's murder before the citizens of Glenbrook is something I still find a bit surprising. On my first playthrough I figured something deeper was up there, but now the only reason I can think of is that Gustadolph had promised to kill Cordelia if he didn't confess, and spare her if he did. Which... well, the problem with accepting execution is there's nothing from stopping Gustadolph from killing Cordelia right after if he wants. I guess you could argue that Regna really had no better option than to gamble on Gustadolph keeping his word.

Regna's a bit odd in general. The narrator calls him a wise and benevolent king which presumably means I'm supposed to take that at face value, but Frani suggests he's incompetently leaving everything to Patriatte and the high lords (and while Frani's not the nicest person, it doesn't seem like he'd make this up), and Benedict certainly has a low opinion of him.

In the "defend the Roselle" arc of Chapter 11-12, a big deal is made of the fact that Hyzante's forces can overpower you if they choose (it even happens if you fail to find the salt crystal in the investigation). But for some reason, Serenoa and friends showing Exharme the salt crystal convinces them to retreat and let the Wolfforts, and the Roselle, go free? I would think that Exharme would have very, very good reason to declare their crystal a fake and kill them all anyway! If he's going to let them go free after that I feel like he should have had some sneaky plan to profit from it, but I never got the sense there was one. Did I miss something?

 

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On 3/27/2022 at 5:09 PM, Dark Holy Elf said:

Wait, you can tell if you've gotten good loot or not? Am I just blind? All I've ever noticed is the game saying "loot acquired!". It's so unexciting I probably end up focusing on it less than I should.

I was really surmising when I said it was good loot; I don't know specifically what I would've gotten (though I know that you can tell what type of loot you've gotten from the colour of the bag, and one of the loot bags was one of a colour I hadn't seen before); I just know that the enemies dropped multiple bags of loot that didn't drop when I had to redo the mission.

As for that third plot point you mentioned:

Spoiler

Idore's sneaky plan is to find out how they got that salt crystal and if there's more of it. They have a salt crystal, and he doesn't know how they found it; what he does know is that the salt crystal, and any more salt crystals there might be, are a threat to his plans.

Plus, he does attempt the "how do we know the crystal isn't a fake" ploy, and Benedict outsmarts him by highlighting that House Wolfort is Hyzante's last trading partner now that Aefrost issued a trade embargo against Hyzante.

 

Anyway, is it just me, or does this game seem kind-of torn between wanting the player to train a core team and stick with that core team (like Fire Emblem), and wanting the player to train and experiment with every unit they obtain and use the ones that are best suited to each mission (like Valkyria Chronicles). Stuff like the sheer expense in the upgrade system and each individual having to level up would suggest the former, whereas stuff like the game outright telling the player which units are recommended for each mission, as well as (golden route spoilers)

Spoiler

Having to split your army into three teams that, unless you've recruited everyone you possibly can in a given playthrough, are going to be small in number

would suggest the latter. 

 

Speaking of the golden ending:

Spoiler

Thematically speaking, I quite like the idea: it makes sense that, in a game all about how convictions will be weighed and tested, when at the darkest hour, the three characters representing the three main convictions each propose half-solutions that involve alienating allies, compromising on their ideals, and throwing a large number of people under the bus, it makes sense for the best solution to be for Serenoa to say "no" and come up with a solution outside the scales.

…At least, that's what I'd be saying if the requirements for unlocking the golden ending all involved outside-the-scales thinking where the player doesn't cave on any of the three convictions, but only one of the requirements (protecting Roland without using the firetraps) is like that; the rest all involve happening to select the right scale decisions so that Serenoa can learn the exact bits of information he needs in order to come up with the plan, which kind-of ruins the point, or at least what I think is supposed to be the point.

 

Edited by vanguard333
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Quote

Regna's a bit odd in general. The narrator calls him a wise and benevolent king which presumably means I'm supposed to take that at face value, but Frani suggests he's incompetently leaving everything to Patriatte and the high lords

I think what they're going with is that Regna is well intentioned and has his heart in the right place but that he's also a flawed person who needs to compromise his morals to rule effectively. That certain deal he struck with Symon does indicate a big amount of emotional cowardice and one side story with Hughette indicates he sometimes lets corruption slide for political expedience. The narration might name Regna as such because that's how he's known in universe. 

Its also possible he wasn't so wise and benevolent in the past if he's the king that allied with Aesfrost and started the Saltiron war. I don't think its ever quite said if it was him or his dad who did that.  

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49 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think what they're going with is that Regna is well intentioned and has his heart in the right place but that he's also a flawed person who needs to compromise his morals to rule effectively. That certain deal he struck with Symon does indicate a big amount of emotional cowardice and one side story with Hughette indicates he sometimes lets corruption slide for political expedience. The narration might name Regna as such because that's how he's known in universe. 

Speaking of that deal, if the one you're talking about is the one I think you're talking about (correct me if I'm wrong), I wonder:

Spoiler

How much did Symon actually care about Serenoa's mother? He says that he married her to prevent attempts on her life by royalists that didn't want to see a commoner become queen, but did he never explains why he went out of his way to do this, or how he came to the conclusion that "I, head of the most prominent non-royal house in Glenbrook, will marry her instead" was the best solution; did he marry her for her sake or for Regna's?

 

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51 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Speaking of that deal, if the one you're talking about is the one I think you're talking about (correct me if I'm wrong), I wonder:

  Reveal hidden contents

How much did Symon actually care about Serenoa's mother? He says that he married her to prevent attempts on her life by royalists that didn't want to see a commoner become queen, but did he never explains why he went out of his way to do this, or how he came to the conclusion that "I, head of the most prominent non-royal house in Glenbrook, will marry her instead" was the best solution; did he marry her for her sake or for Regna's?

 

Spoiler

Its implied that Symone really cared about Destra. You can find a letter thats (probably) about the subject where 'X' tell 'XX' that he'll take in 'XXX'. Not because of 'XX', but because X cares about 'XX'X  Perhaps more then XX does XD.

So Symone probably took Destra in because he cared about her as a person, rather then obligation.

But Regna is probably seen as wise and benevolent because he reigned over a long period of peace that him and Symone where responsible for creating. He seems on good terms with the other countries and he probably helped with the Roselle in Glenbrook as well.

Meanwhile the corruption seemed to be mostly invisible and things kept working. Unlike after his death where the royalist's just become openly monsterous and don't really care who knows.

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10 minutes ago, Sasori said:
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Its implied that Symone really cared about Destra. You can find a letter thats (probably) about the subject where 'X' tell 'XX' that he'll take in 'XXX'. Not because of 'XX', but because X cares about 'XX'X  Perhaps more then XX does XD.

So Symone probably took Destra in because he cared about her as a person, rather then obligation.

 

Spoiler

I see. One more question then: is there really much point to the twist regarding Serenoa's heritage? I mean, it does retroactively redefine Benedict's apparent motivations, but other than that, it really doesn't seem like there's much point to it, at least from a story standpoint. Is it relevant in one of the three final routes that I didn't pick?

 

Anyway, I just completed the first part of chapter 18 on the golden route:

Spoiler

Having to do basically the chapter 7 fight, but against far greater numbers, with my team having less than ten units and only one healer, and with half my team being underleveled even after a lot of level-grinding because I never use them and because the last mock battle has recommended level of 25 and this mission had a recommended level of 28... I naturally had to use the fire traps this time around. Part of me wanted to see if I could complete it without the fire traps, and it quickly became clear that I couldn't. Mercifully, this time, there aren't any consequences for not using the fire traps.

My team consisted of Benedict, Serenoa, Erador, Decimal, Corentin, Hossabara, Lionel and Picoletta. Picoletta's decoy proved very useful for luring enemies into fire traps, but Decimal was probably my MVP that mission simply because of how many enemies he could damage at once and at great distance.

 

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59 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

In regards to your spoiler question:

  Reveal hidden contents

It's relevant on Benedict's route.

 

I see. That makes sense.

Spoiler

When I saw that reveal, I honestly thought, "Not another, 'secretly the king's son' twist! That twist is everywhere in fantasy, and you to do it here too, when he's already the son of the most prominent noble family in the kingdom? Why?"

Of course, I then realized my hypocrisy afterwards when I remembered that I'm currently writing a fantasy war novel where one of my protagonists is a princess (in a kingdom normally ruled by a high king, so she's heir to a piece of the kingdom) who finds out that she's the last high king's granddaughter.

 

By the way, I answered your question about Idore earlier; did you see that answer?

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Speaking of Symon its curious the game never really goes into detail about how his legacy is kinda messed up. He essentially build house Wolffort by defending Hyzante's tyranny which the plot indicates is the biggest problem facing Norzelia. Even Benedict who's very staunchly anti hyzante at the end never really brings up his and Symon's actions in furthering Hyzante's tyranny. 

Symon's past also makes his relation with Regna a tad less interesting than it should have been. Symon is depicted as a loyal bannerman and close friend to Regna, but he spend 30 years fighting Regna on the wrong side of a war. It be more interesting if Regna still had some hard feelings about it and neither likes nor trust Symon but is condemned to stomaching him.

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Agreed; I think the game is too fuzzy about the previous generation generally.

20 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

By the way, I answered your question about Idore earlier; did you see that answer?

Yep. I wasn't quite convinced by the exchange at the time, but I could see it working. I think it depends on what exactly is going through both Idore's and Exharme's heads before Exharme sets out for that mission. But it'll be interesting to get more pieces from the story.

12 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

I personally think this game should've put the level cap at 30, not 50. Health items just fade away into irrelevance for basically anything but Medina's TP shenanigans by the time you get everyone to their max stats.

Yeah honestly between comments related to items and the whole "if there's anyone you haven't used on the previous playthrough, Chapter 1 is unbearable", NG+ doesn't really sound appealing to me at all. I'm currently just doing a second normal run. Taking the blinders off for the conviction system would be cool, but eh, I'm figuring most of it out anyway, and guides can fill in the rest.

On 3/27/2022 at 6:11 PM, vanguard333 said:

Anyway, is it just me, or does this game seem kind-of torn between wanting the player to train a core team and stick with that core team (like Fire Emblem), and wanting the player to train and experiment with every unit they obtain and use the ones that are best suited to each mission (like Valkyria Chronicles). Stuff like the sheer expense in the upgrade system and each individual having to level up would suggest the former, whereas stuff like the game outright telling the player which units are recommended for each mission

Yeah, strongly agreed with this. I think the upgrade system requiring materials was a mistake; just have everyone gain skill points instead. Mario+Rabbids did this and it works much better for a system which encourages switching. Incidentally I read the golden route spoilers below and am very glad I did, so thanks for mentioning that!

While I'm hating on the upgrade system, the process of "I want to get this upgrade but I need to buy 3 Wood and 1 Stone" -> close forging menu entirely and walk over to shop -> buy 3 wood and 1 stone -> go back to forging menu is really stupid. Just let me buy the needed items from the forging screen for goodness' sake. Dragon Quest 11 did this and Dragon Quest is not what I should be pointing at for modern polish.

And thirdly while I'm hating on the upgrade system, giving abilities vague descriptions like "raises back attack damage" is terrible considering you have to invest permanently in them and they make all future upgrades more expensive. This is a game with visible numbers; please say how effective these skills are so I can at least make moderately informed decisions.

(Not trying to be too negative, since I really like the game; I just think this is one area it drops the ball a bit.)

Edited by Dark Holy Elf
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1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Yeah, strongly agreed with this. I think the upgrade system requiring materials was a mistake; just have everyone gain skill points instead. Mario+Rabbids did this and it works much better for a system which encourages switching. Incidentally I read the golden route spoilers below and am very glad I did, so thanks for mentioning that!

While I'm hating on the upgrade system, the process of "I want to get this upgrade but I need to buy 3 Wood and 1 Stone" -> close forging menu entirely and walk over to shop -> buy 3 wood and 1 stone -> go back to forging menu is really stupid. Just let me buy the needed items from the forging screen for goodness' sake. Dragon Quest 11 did this and Dragon Quest is not what I should be pointing at for modern polish.

And thirdly while I'm hating on the upgrade system, giving abilities vague descriptions like "raises back attack damage" is terrible considering you have to invest permanently in them and they make all future upgrades more expensive. This is a game with visible numbers; please say how effective these skills are so I can at least make moderately informed decisions.

(Not trying to be too negative, since I really like the game; I just think this is one area it drops the ball a bit.)

I agree; the upgrade system requiring materials was probably not the best idea. At the very best, it encourages selecting one team of units and sticking with it, which the rest of the game does not encourage. And you're welcome regarding the bit about the golden route.

Yeah; that process is rather inefficient/inconvenient.

I definitely agree to that; the standard "raise this stat" upgrade all provide numbers; why don't the other skills?

Yeah; the upgrade system is probably the area where the game drops the ball the most. There's a joke about the circus juggler Picoletta in there somewhere. 

 

By the way, when you quoted me, the text in the quote was the same as the Alastor15243 quote for some reason.

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Forums have been acting super-weird for me lately, I've fixed the quote. Hopefully you guessed what I was responding to from context.

On my replay, I've been trying to use more people, particularly people I didn't use the first time around. Lionel before Level 15 seems incredibly bad. Basically Erador, except his fury is singletarget and range 4 instead of multitarget and range 2. That's... already probably a downgrade to me, but I can see feeling otherwise. But then he has terrible attack and durability by comparison? Ugh. Hopefully his next ability will make him something vaguely salvageable.

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14 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Forums have been acting super-weird for me lately, I've fixed the quote. Hopefully you guessed what I was responding to from context.

On my replay, I've been trying to use more people, particularly people I didn't use the first time around. Lionel before Level 15 seems incredibly bad. Basically Erador, except his fury is singletarget and range 4 instead of multitarget and range 2. That's... already probably a downgrade to me, but I can see feeling otherwise. But then he has terrible attack and durability by comparison? Ugh. Hopefully his next ability will make him something vaguely salvageable.

I was able to guess what you were responding to.

Yeah; I wasn't a fan of Lionel as a unit, though I'm biased as most of my time spent using him was trying to rapidly get him from level 12 to high-enough-levelled to survive a defense mission with a recommended level of 28. His whip attack is terrible (you'd think that a whip would at least have 1-2 range like the spears to compensate for low lethality, but nope; it's just a bad one-range weapon) and his HP is good for tanking but his defenses really aren't.

He does have some abilities that make him situationally useful: he can recover HP and collect money whenever he steps on loot, so he's one of the few characters in which it is strategically advantageous for him to prioritize him collecting loot. I don't think it's enough to make him a good unit, but it's something. He also has an attack that can charm enemies, but it isn't nearly as likely to succeed as the Milo's charm ability (gee; I wonder why a dancer would have a greater likelihood of successfully charming people than a former snake oil salesman).

Edited by vanguard333
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2 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

so he's the only character in which it is strategically advantageous for him to prioritize him collecting loot.

There's another, actually: one of the potential Chapter 15 recruits gets +1 TP from picking up loot, definitely the person I prioritized for this!

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10 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

There's another, actually: one of the potential Chapter 15 recruits gets +1 TP from picking up loot, definitely the person I prioritized for this!

5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

And Medina gets healing items when picking up loot.

Okay; evidently I was wrong. I'll change what I said from "only character" to "one of the few characters".

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The voice acting can be a bit hit and miss at times but I think Frederica's a highlight. She has a very pleasant voice and tends to nail most emotions Frederica conveys. Especially if you take the jerkass option in the final choice her voice acting is stellar. Her uncle Svarov is also among the best voice actors in the game.

I think Exharme has quite a great voice as well. Very pompous, dramatic and self absorbed but still with a sense of charisma. 

 

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On 3/31/2022 at 8:29 AM, Etrurian emperor said:

The voice acting can be a bit hit and miss at times but I think Frederica's a highlight. She has a very pleasant voice and tends to nail most emotions Frederica conveys. Especially if you take the jerkass option in the final choice her voice acting is stellar. Her uncle Svarov is also among the best voice actors in the game.

I think Exharme has quite a great voice as well. Very pompous, dramatic and self absorbed but still with a sense of charisma. 

Yeah; those three are definitely well voice-acted, especially Frederica.

I honestly hadn't thought about the voice-acting all that much; I'm not really one to commend or criticize the quality of voice-acting in a game unless it's really good or really bad; I'm more one to ask whether or not the voice-acting was really necessary or if it adds much to the game. In the case of this game, I think it does help a fair bit, especially early on since the cutscenes can go on and on, but that's less it enhancing the game and more it somewhat mitigating the problem of the early game's pacing. I probably could've gone the whole game with just text boxes, but I do think the voice acting does add to the game overall.

 

Anyway, I just completed chapter 18 part 2 on the golden route.

Spoiler

Without a full team of 10, these missions in chapter 18 are particularly grueling; I'd say that they're more grueling than chapter 7 when trying to protect Roland without using the fire traps.

In this case, you have to fight Gustadolph and his remaining minions (it's surprising that he has any in this mission as, before the fight, he is fully and completely exposed as the sociopathic cousin-slayer that he is who invaded Glenbrook under false pretenses) at the main gate into Aesfrost.

In this mission, one door of the gate is open, so I parked my units around the open gate and had Hughette rain arrows down from atop the gate while waiting for Svarog to arrive and help out. Once I thinned their numbers enough, I had my units fight Gustadolph (since you don't have to defeat every unit on the map; just him). My main problems were twofold:

1. My only tank in this chapter was Flanagan Grutte (the hawk rider who uses a shield), and he honestly kind-of stinks; his offense is bad (though part of that may be because I don't have the materials needed to upgrade his shield to level 2, let alone level 3) and he can only taunt one unit at a time with an attack that often misses in my experience. Since the opening is four tiles wide, I had to use fragile characters like Roland and Anna to help hold the line while having Jens throw traps in front of them.

2. I had no mages; I had to put my mages in the other teams, so I had none for this mission. This meant the only character I had with a magic attack was Milo the dancer (who was well-suited to hit-and-run tactics thanks to her jumping ability), and my only characters that could damage multiple units at a time were Roland and Flanagan.

Fortunately, a lot of units in this chapter are weak to fire, and I did purchase a lot of fire stones beforehand, so that helped.

 

Edited by vanguard333
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