Tempest Trials+: Ice & Flame 4

[Mercakete]

14 minutes ago, Rinco said:

So. Fjorm gets an Axe. Will Laegjarn get a Lance, so Fjorm still has WTA over her? Will she go the magic route?
Let's find out on the next episode of Tempest Ball Z

XD Oh man I love this comment.

[Midnox]

Spoiler

OMG, Gala Fjorm looks so pretty. I happen to have saved over 400 orbs. Guess it’s as good as any to summon her. Her crown even has an unicorn horn. I can’t wait to see Gala Laegjarn 

 

PD: yes, the “Gala” is from Dragalia Lost. I like using it as a joke

 

[DefyingFates]

19 hours ago, Rinco said:

Will Laegjarn get a Lance, so Fjorm still has WTA over her? Will she go the magic route?

I was thinking a Blue Tome would be nice, but she already has one in her summer alt, so probably not. She had a Lance in the past too, but IS has shown that they don't really care about doubling/ tripling/ quadrupling down on weapon/ movement combos in the past (see: 1/3 of the Brave Heroes we have so far, most of them from CYL 4). If the new Laegjarn is "blessed" by Muspell, she may even remain a Red unit since in FE, "Fire = Red". In which case... yeah, Nifl messed up big time.

I wish the ending unlocked as soon as you hit 50k points, not just the end of the event. I've wanted this for a while now, but it's especially annoying since the TT+ has a concrete storyline now. Regarding the story, I agree with Mercakete that Muspell is excessively evil, just like Surtr. I was hoping he'd be a "personification of chaos" or something, but no: he's just edgy. I do like Laegjarn talking back to him though, and while the story is much less impressive than it was set up to be, I'm still interested in seeing where it goes.

P.S. I guess the new "Bloom" fjorms also support the idea of an Infantry Gramr Reginn down the line?

[Othin]

2 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

P.S. I guess the new "Bloom" fjorms also support the idea of an Infantry Gramr Reginn down the line?

Yeah, I'd been speculating about her getting a legendary alt like that but this seems more likely now.

[DefyingFates]

30 minutes ago, Othin said:

Yeah, I'd been speculating about her getting a legendary alt like that but this seems more likely now.

And the best part (hopefully): they get added to the regular pool instead of the hellscape that is the Mythic/ Legendary Hero Banners!

[Othin]

6 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

And the best part (hopefully): they get added to the regular pool instead of the hellscape that is the Mythic/ Legendary Hero Banners!

Yeah, that too. I was able to spark for Nifl and Muspell, while I've had to pass on all the elemental heroes since Nott.

[Hilda]

Considering we are almost ending the Legendary Heroes cycle (or ended it). There might be new "evolved" Legendaries for a new mode?

I hope not, but i think IS will introduce with Book VI a new mode that needs a different kind of Legendary. I just dont see them adding more new Legendaries (besides Xander). It kinda fizzled out (Mythic is different). I dont know, everything is confusing anyway with Muspell and Nifl not being Mythics and now this. Its like they are throwing stuff at us to try and see what works without much of a plan.

[Tybrosion]

10 minutes ago, Hilda said:

Considering we are almost ending the Legendary Heroes cycle (or ended it).

Micaiah was the 16th Pair Up Legendary, so that chart is indeed complete.

Personally, I'm more inclined to believe Champion Fjorm will be the start of a new brand of Legendaries rather than being unceremoniously dumped off on a New Heroes banner.

Either way, we'll know what IS's intentions are when this TT ends because the next New Heroes banner should start immediately afterwards (so on the 18th, give or take).

[Midnox]

On 10/7/2021 at 3:00 AM, XRay said:

Spoilers:

  Hide contents

 

I hope Laegjarn: Flame Ascendent (or whatever her epithet is), is an armor unit too, but specialized in melee combat.

 

Spoiler

I dunno. It seems Nifl and Muspel are shown to be opposites in every way. Maybe Laegjarn will be cavalier instead, and possibly uses magic

 

[DefyingFates]

2 minutes ago, Midnox said:

I dunno. It seems Nifl and Muspel are shown to be opposites in every way. Maybe Laegjarn will be cavalier instead, and possibly uses magic

The TT+ is out, so surely everything but the ending cutscene is fair game for discussion now?

In any case, Nifl and Muspell themselves were both Dragon cavs (even though it made no sense for Muspell's design), so I think Laegjarn could be anything. On the other hand, Fjorm shifted from infantry to armor, so I could see her shifting from one kind of mounted unit to the other too. They'll likely have opposing Prf skills, though now that I think of it it'd be nice if Laegjarn was a ranged unit so that Fjorm's kit isn't completely useless against her.

[ARMADS!!!]

21 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

The TT+ is out, so surely everything but the ending cutscene is fair game for discussion now?

In any case, Nifl and Muspell themselves were both Dragon cavs (even though it made no sense for Muspell's design), so I think Laegjarn could be anything. On the other hand, Fjorm shifted from infantry to armor, so I could see her shifting from one kind of mounted unit to the other too. They'll likely have opposing Prf skills, though now that I think of it it'd be nice if Laegjarn was a ranged unit so that Fjorm's kit isn't completely useless against her.

It would be cool if Laegjarn was a ranged unit with close counter on her weapon, so they will both be able to counter each other (and this would back up what Muspell said about his and Nifl's power being equal on a fight).

 

 Also, can't unthink it now  But Super Fjorm's face in her attack and special art looks pretty Ahegao.

Edited October 9, 2021 by ARMADS!!!

[DefyingFates]

2 minutes ago, ARMADS!!! said:

It would be cool if Laegjarn was a ranged unit with close counter on her weapon, so they will both be able to counter each other (and this would back up what Muspell said about his and Nifl's power being equal on a fight).

I feel the same (and it's why I suggested a Tome at first). I think it'd be interesting if she was a Green Tome in that case: she and Fjorm would be on equal footing, and both would be distinct from Nifl and Muspell - though I guess a Colorless Tome would do that just as well.

[ARMADS!!!]

Just now, DefyingFates said:

I feel the same (and it's why I suggested a Tome at first). I think it'd be interesting if she was a Green Tome in that case: she and Fjorm would be on equal footing, and both would be distinct from Nifl and Muspell - though I guess a Colorless Tome would do that just as well.

Yeah! I love colorless tomes. It would make sense since grey can simbolize ashes and all, and then we would have all the 4 colors with Nifl, Muspell, Fjorm and Laegjarn.

 And colorless tomes are pretty limited like, we have only 7 yet (counting Kiran) and none of them is armoured or calvary. So it would be nice if she was Colorles tome with one of these mov types too, to be something fresh like Nifl and Muspell were by being the first cavalry dragons. But for me is not even necessary, if she was colorless tome then any move type would be acceptable.

[Othin]

A fight between a DC axe and a CC green tome tends to favor the axe, since axe units have higher stats.

[Ice Dragon]

I'm half expecting Muspell's blessing to just be the ability to have cavalry movement without a horse.

[DefyingFates]

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm half expecting Muspell's blessing to just be the ability to have cavalry movement without a horse.

Would Laegjarn still be a flier in this scenario? She'd put every bird Laguz to shame, but it would still give her a niche (instead of sharing with Alm and Yuri). May I ask why you think that?

Spoiler

Judging by the ending, it's also possible that she'll just get an "invincibility" Seal like Surtr and Fafnir, or maybe a weapon/ skill that heals her per hit (so a stronger version of Mystic Boost and Nifl's Bite's healing effect).

Edit: The Seal doesn't make sense unless the next TT+ has a "survive" map for the final one... which could happen, I suppose.

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by DefyingFates

[Mercakete]

Actually... I could see Muspell get fed up with Laegjarn not listening to him and just making her into a dragon unit herself. But that would require IS to actually make him a threat, so maybe he'll just keep posturing. I'm glad Laegjarn is still in-character, though, despite the huge writing gap.

[ARMADS!!!]

Spoiler

 

Spoilers about the ending dialogue:

 

I felt pretty disapointed with what they have done to Muspell, like, I really thought that eventually he was going to reveal that he had some kind of sad backstory with Muspell's first king, something that ended up making him become as intense, cruel and disgusted of humanity as he is as a way of protecting himself from future disappointments (like how Nifl became cold and uncaring because she lost Hvergel), and that eventually Laegjarn would remind him of this king and he would start to care about her while she would learn that he was a rude brat to try to keep people away but was a decent person at heart. Or something like this. Like is not a big deal but already enough to give him a little depth and some likebility, and I would have like it better if in the Nifl vs Muspell conflitct none of them was exactly perceived as right or good and it was more of just a personal problem (which would be one more reason for us to root for peace between Laegjarn and Fjorm)

 Instead he is like Surtr (as some people said here already, is kinda like IS tried to turn him into the supreme embodiment of evil with 0 rediming qualities) and still treats Laegjarn like crap and wants to destroy everything, because he is really just a crappy person because he likes it and not for any convincing reason (like, do you wanna bet that he tortured Hvergel just for the sake of it and that Nifl didn't even do anything to him?). Idk, it just makes me sad. It could have been so good, to be honest I was more invested in Muspell's character development than in Nifl's, because I wanted to see HOW he would allow himself to grow attached to Laegjarn and what was his backstory. But now I don't think we will have any kind of development from Muspell cuz I guess we are really supposed to hate him.

 
 Also having Muspell be like Surtr 2:The prequel kind of weakens down Surtr's whole thing in my opinion. Surtr was always talking about how he was stronger than everyone because he went his own way, a way that no other Muspell king (or anyone) went before, and he always thought that he was above everyone else. But by having him be too much like Muspell it just makes it look like Surtr acts like this because he felt inspired by Muspell for being his descendant or whatever and wanted to be like him (or just acts like this out of coincidence of course, but it still kinda gives the impression that he looked up on Muspell). As if he was trying to copy a god to be great instead of being so great that he would have to be considered a god himself. It feels weird to think that he would want to be like someone else- even if it was the guy who gave powers to his predecessors and country- since he thinks of himself as the greatest (like, he even says "even the gods will burn"!).

 Idk, so much more could have been done with Muspell. I agree about how better it would have been if he was a creature of chaos or something, instead of just the 100% evil dick guy.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by ARMADS!!!

[defensedefumer]

I put my playthrough here.

It was easier compared the previous Ice and Flame series. I thought that armoured Fjorm would be dangerous, but it was a let down.

 

[Ice Dragon]

7 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Would Laegjarn still be a flier in this scenario?

No mount. Just run.

 

7 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

May I ask why you think that?

Because Muspell's only defining trait is being a cavalry unit without any discernable reason why.

[ARMADS!!!]

8 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Because Muspell's only defining trait is being a cavalry unit without any discernable reason why.

I also thought that it was weird for him to be a cavalry. Like, really weird (specially if you consider his armour like stats, or his totally not cavalry like design, just... why the fuck he is a cavalry?!). Gotta admit that sometimes during his boss battle I even forgot that he could move 3 spaces. I decided to belive that this only hapened so he would have the same advantages and disadvantages as Nifl (like moving 3 spaces and being vulnerable to both dragonslayer and horseslayer weapons) so none of them would be exactly better, or because Muspell should be the second dragon cavalry in the game so Nifl wouldnt be "more special", "less replaceable" or more needed than him in a team. Still a pretty dumb decision though, if someone has to think for more than 2 minutes about why the hell a unit has a mov type or a weapon or a color, its probably because something ins't right.

[ARMADS!!!]

16 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

 

  Hide contents

Judging by the ending, it's also possible that she'll just get an "invincibility" Seal like Surtr and Fafnir, or maybe a weapon/ skill that heals her per hit (so a stronger version of Mystic Boost and Nifl's Bite's healing effect).

Edit: The Seal doesn't make sense unless the next TT+ has a "survive" map for the final one... which could happen, I suppose.

 

Spoiler

Or she could just have Miracle (either as her special or as one of the effects of her weapon, or even a "Flame gem" skill that could be some kind of "Miracle +"). But I think that this invincibility thing will be more of a story/boss only thing than something in her actual kit whenever she becomes summonable. So a "survive" chapter seems a possibility too (with the Flame Gem being her S skill I guess)

 

[DefyingFates]

17 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Because Muspell's only defining trait is being a cavalry unit without any discernable reason why.

Ah, say no more. I guess someone at IS thought "cavalry dragon" was too novel to keep to just one FEH deity, as ARMADS said. Speaking of, I wonder if Askr and Embla will also be cavalry dragons and that combination will be seen as too special for regular units (at least for the time being)? It'd explain why Fallen Fafnir is an armored dragon for instance, despite having six legs (I'm pretty sure the middle two still work, at least, though they do seem to be dangling a little above the ground in his sprite).

7 hours ago, ARMADS!!! said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Or she could just have Miracle (either as her special or as one of the effects of her weapon, or even a "Flame gem" skill that could be some kind of "Miracle +"). But I think that this invincibility thing will be more of a story/boss only thing than something in her actual kit whenever she becomes summonable. So a "survive" chapter seems a possibility too (with the Flame Gem being her S skill I guess)

 

Spoiler

I'm glad you like the "Survive" idea too (though it'd probably be tedious in practice unless the enemy Laegjarn is just the vanilla one with the Seal). Miracle+ is an interesting idea though: I wonder if it'd even be worth running meta wise, even if the cooldown was brought down to 3 or something. Maybe she could get an inbuilt Miracle instead, like Hel and the OG!Tyrfing refine?

As for the overarching plot: Laegjarn came back from the dead, but only because she was sacrificed to Muspell (which explains why Nifl can casually veto Fjorm's death, now that I think about it) - that puts her in an interesting position and I hope she isn't just killed off again at the end of this arc. Besides, I'm sure everyone here has brought up the point that Laevateinn is in no way suitable to rule a kingdom in her current state, especially not one that lost a war (though that part probably isn't as big a deal since Nifl is a much more gracious victor than real world countries would be).

[ARMADS!!!]

1 hour ago, DefyingFates said:

Ah, say no more. I guess someone at IS thought "cavalry dragon" was too novel to keep to just one FEH deity, as ARMADS said. Speaking of, I wonder if Askr and Embla will also be cavalry dragons and that combination will be seen as too special for regular units (at least for the time being)? It'd explain why Fallen Fafnir is an armored dragon for instance, despite having six legs (I'm pretty sure the middle two still work, at least, though they do seem to be dangling a little above the ground in his sprite).

  Hide contents

I'm glad you like the "Survive" idea too (though it'd probably be tedious in practice unless the enemy Laegjarn is just the vanilla one with the Seal). Miracle+ is an interesting idea though: I wonder if it'd even be worth running meta wise, even if the cooldown was brought down to 3 or something. Maybe she could get an inbuilt Miracle instead, like Hel and the OG!Tyrfing refine?

As for the overarching plot: Laegjarn came back from the dead, but only because she was sacrificed to Muspell (which explains why Nifl can casually veto Fjorm's death, now that I think about it) - that puts her in an interesting position and I hope she isn't just killed off again at the end of this arc. Besides, I'm sure everyone here has brought up the point that Laevateinn is in no way suitable to rule a kingdom in her current state, especially not one that lost a war (though that part probably isn't as big a deal since Nifl is a much more gracious victor than real world countries would be).

 You're probably right, I think I'll assume that cavalry dragon is reserved to Zenith dragon deities until we get one that isn't, I mean if that wasn't the case I$ would probably have given us some other by now (like, when we got the first Laguz units they were quick to give us more, as far as I remember) but instead we just got the halloween banner with 4 dragons and none of them is cavalry. Or they will try to make it exclusive or special for a while but then it will become a little more common (kinda like colorful bows and daggers)

 

Spoiler

I think that if Miracle effect was on her weapon it would be like Hel, yes (like with no cooldown and probably without any health requirement like OG!Tyrfing refine has, unless they want to nerf her a little then it could have some conditions to trigger like Duo Leif's Bow of Twelve or OG!Tyrfing refine). But if it was the Miracle+ skill, I think it would almost definitively be a 0 cooldown miracle (again, like Hel too, it activates per combat) and would also have some aditional effect (kinda like B!Hector's Ostian Counter is just distant counter with an additional effect, or how Gunthará's Chilling seal II is basicaly a plus version of Chill Def with the additional effect of debuffing nearby enemies of the targets, among other exclusive skills that are "generic skill but sometimes stronger + additional effect"). Alternatively, it could be a prf special, as like you said having less cooldown than normal Miracle(and probably with some other additional effect too) but I think this is less likely than having it in her weapon or on a skill.

 About what you said about the overarching plot:

Spoiler

 Initially I thought that Fjorm and Laegjarn would find a way to end this conflict peacefully, because I thought that Muspell would have some character development so we could see that he is not exactly a bad guy, just a dick, and that neither him nor Nifl is right in their conlfict and also that none of them is good or bad (both being neutral) but after reading this TT's ending I start to think that this won't happen and that Muspell is gonna be pictured as a villain with 0 redeeming qualities, in this case Fjorm has to win otherwise something bad might happen? That means that maybe Laegjarn will l have to die again at the end. Sure, it was "fated" that Muspell should win, but who knows. But yeah, I wish there was a way to end this conflict with Laegjarn alive. It would be cool to see her a the queen of Muspell and Fjorm as the queen of Nifl, having an alliance between the countries for the first time in...probably ever?

 Also, what exactly do you mean you say Laevatein is not suitable to rule a kingdom in her "current state"? (sorry I don't remember if something happened to her body, like an injury or whatever, I looked up but couldnt find anything about it except being stabbed by Surtr) Because if mean her mental state, I'm pretty sure no one will stop this from happening, I mean Surtr could be the king and he is mad AF, she is kinda off too but at least better than him, even if she is not exactly suitable for the job. And as for now, she's been Muspell queen for a year already, so I don't think that Laevatein not being the best person to rule Muspell would be a motive for IS to let Laegjarn live (even if Laegjarn would definitively be a better queen). Not that I think that she will definitively die, but if she doesn't comes back for real in the end of this, I don't think we have to worry too much about Muspell's fate anyway, I don't doubt that Laevatein's reign is better than half of Muspell's king's/queen's reigns were.

[DefyingFates]

11 hours ago, ARMADS!!! said:

Because if mean her mental state, I'm pretty sure no one will stop this from happening, I mean Surtr could be the king and he is mad AF, she is kinda off too but at least better than him, even if she is not exactly suitable for the job.

I'm referring to her perpetual state of apathy and inability to think for herself. In a more realistic setting, Muspell would be (even more) on fire within a month of Nifl leaving their territory - and that's not even accounting for her "advisors" taking advantage of her lack of knowledge and insight and turning her into a puppet to their own ends. Again, I doubt Heroes would ever delve into politics that deep, but I don't think it's a stretch to say she's the worst possible candidate to rule Muspell post-Surtr, even if you like her as a person. Heck, even Helbindi would be a better choice if he were still alive: he would try to help out the poorer districts at the very least, even if he couldn't do anything else.

If nothing else, Laegjarn surviving and going back to Muspell could prompt a few more cute "sisterly fluff" FEH comics. I liked those~