Tempest Trials+: Ice & Flame 4

[Mercakete]

19 hours ago, ARMADS!!! said:

 Also, what exactly do you mean you say Laevatein is not suitable to rule a kingdom in her "current state"? (sorry I don't remember if something happened to her body, like an injury or whatever, I looked up but couldnt find anything about it except being stabbed by Surtr) Because if mean her mental state, I'm pretty sure no one will stop this from happening, I mean Surtr could be the king and he is mad AF, she is kinda off too but at least better than him, even if she is not exactly suitable for the job. And as for now, she's been Muspell queen for a year already, so I don't think that Laevatein not being the best person to rule Muspell would be a motive for IS to let Laegjarn live (even if Laegjarn would definitively be a better queen). Not that I think that she will definitively die, but if she doesn't comes back for real in the end of this, I don't think we have to worry too much about Muspell's fate anyway, I don't doubt that Laevatein's reign is better than half of Muspell's king's/queen's reigns were.

 

7 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

I'm referring to her perpetual state of apathy and inability to think for herself. In a more realistic setting, Muspell would be (even more) on fire within a month of Nifl leaving their territory - and that's not even accounting for her "advisors" taking advantage of her lack of knowledge and insight and turning her into a puppet to their own ends. Again, I doubt Heroes would ever delve into politics that deep, but I don't think it's a stretch to say she's the worst possible candidate to rule Muspell post-Surtr, even if you like her as a person. Heck, even Helbindi would be a better choice if he were still alive: he would try to help out the poorer districts at the very least, even if he couldn't do anything else.

If nothing else, Laegjarn surviving and going back to Muspell could prompt a few more cute "sisterly fluff" FEH comics. I liked those~

If I can throw in my 2 cents on this topic (I haven't read the ending text, but this seems fine to talk about) Leavateinn is not simply apathetic. The problem is that she's dependent on other people to the point where she can't stand on her own. She sees herself as a weapon, and has 0 emotional maturity. Whatever emotional stability she had came from her sister, and with her loss, Leavateinn is likely to have either shut herself away or fled Muspell because like heck she could handle that kind of loss. She's probably still feeling purposeless (after all, she sees herself as a weapon. I could see her turning mercenary and hiding her identity, though) even a year later. That's not even mentioning how hard she must be feeling her lack of emotional strength and identity. With all her controllers gone from her life, she wouldn't know what to do with herself, and so "panic and escape" seems like the most likely course she'd take. Apathy is a lack of feeling, but that's not her problem. She has a lifetime of emotional damage/repression/atrophy and an underdeveloped sense of self to deal with. The feelings were and are there, but she's never learned how to deal with them. Surtr at least had a sense of self and direction he wanted to take things in, so even though that direction was bad, he still did manage to lead an entire country into a nearly complete conquest. That's not nothing. He possessed leadership ability and was a better leader than Leavateinn could be in her current state. What he chose to do with that leadership ability, however, is another matter, and has more to do with moral failure than leadership failure.

Analysist complete on that topic, I'll move on to the related one: When IS brought Laegjarn back for this, the following became my guess as to what direction they would take: Laegjarn is going to become the queen of Muspell and Leavateinn will get her somewhat-healthy controller back. It's too bad Leavateinn couldn't grow on her own, but she may be too dependent at this point. So, no worries for the fans of the sister stuff: it will definitely make a return. If IS does let Laegjarn die again, it will probably not happen without a sister moment between her and Leavateinn, in which Leavateinn is finally guided into thinking for herself. She at least needs that jump-start in order to start growing in that area at this point.

Edit: Forgot to add this: But yeah, IS doesn't like getting rid of gimmicks even if the character would realistically grow out of it, and even if it would be a healthy move for the character. So, Laegjarn will remain alive and teach Muspell a lesson on playing nice (just like Fjorm will for Nifl) and become the new queen while Leavateinn is only given growth as is convenient for gimmicks (like her "being cute") and will otherwise have stagnation in her inabilities enabled (because why would she need to grow if she's being told how to be/what to do?)

Edited October 11, 2021 by Mercakete

[DefyingFates]

On 10/11/2021 at 9:16 PM, Mercakete said:

The problem is that she's dependent on other people to the point where she can't stand on her own. She sees herself as a weapon, and has 0 emotional maturity.

Fair enough, but I think that inability to think for herself still dooms her to be a terrible queen in a realistic setting. I think it's safe to say she's Queen and hasn't run away though, since Fjorm mentions her in Part 2, I believe.

On 10/11/2021 at 9:16 PM, Mercakete said:

But yeah, IS doesn't like getting rid of gimmicks even if the character would realistically grow out of it, and even if it would be a healthy move for the character. So, Laegjarn will remain alive and teach Muspell a lesson on playing nice (just like Fjorm will for Nifl) and become the new queen

Yeah, that is unfortunate... but who knows, maybe Laegjarn will choose to be Laevatein's advisor instead? That at least leaves room for her to grow into her own person eventually.

And while it may be a cliche, I am hoping Laegjarn will find a way to undercut Muspell's authority. Some cliches stick around because they're genuinely fun, after all!

[Lemmy]

Spoiler

Am I the only one thinking that we never really knew Surtr? That his body was just a puppet for Muspell, like what happened with Lyon’s father when revived.

 

[Mercakete]

On 10/13/2021 at 3:44 PM, DefyingFates said:

Fair enough, but I think that inability to think for herself still dooms her to be a terrible queen in a realistic setting.

I never disagreed with you. Actually, I completely agree on this. It was the character assessment explaining why that is that I felt wasn't quite on the dot.

Quote

I think it's safe to say she's Queen and hasn't run away though, since Fjorm mentions her in Part 2, I believe.

Yeah, that is unfortunate... but who knows, maybe Laegjarn will choose to be Laevatein's advisor instead? That at least leaves room for her to grow into her own person eventually.

And while it may be a cliche, I am hoping Laegjarn will find a way to undercut Muspell's authority. Some cliches stick around because they're genuinely fun, after all!

Just because Fjorm remembers her doesn't mean she's maintained contact and knows what she's up to. Anyway, even if it's technically possible for Laegjarn to be Leavateinn's advisor, I don't see her doing that. First, it's not really in character. Laegjarn's always directly involved herself in sheltering her sister, so I don't see her stopping that now. She may not even believe that Leavateinn has it in her to rule (and currently, she's right. That doesn't mean she couldn't grow into it, but that requires some mental healing and I think Laegjarn would rather just take the reins.) Second, Laegjarn is the elder between the two of them. I don't know if that actually has any bearing on Muspellian royal ascension, but it's a prominent theme in other cultures and may also hold true here. So, if Laeavateinn never actually took up the crown (and there's nothing indicating that she did) then it's more natural for Laegjarn to fill the power void. This is especially if she either 1: brings Muspell himself to heel, or 2: gains his direct approval by teaching him about the power of friendship or whatever else. And finally, my earlier point about IS liking gimmicks. Because of these reasons, I just don't see Leavateinn getting the throne/Laegjarn dying again here. In all likelihood, they want Leavateinn to remain someone for players to want to "take care of"/"baby"/"aw, it's so cute how socially inept she is, I must protect her" or whatever. They like those types.

[ARMADS!!!]

 @Mercakete and @DefyingFates   (I won't be quoting all you two said because it would take too long, and It would make this post long AF)

 

 About Laegjarn being dead or alive in the end of all of this: Well it makes sense, I guess it would be stupid to bring her back just to die again (unless she at least serves to guide Laevatein giving her a final advice before her death to push her sister in the right direction as queen/person, as Mercakete said, but I agree that this probably won't happen considering what you said too about the unlikebility of Laevatein getting rid of her Gimmick), also it would be awesome to see Laegjarn helping to bring Muspell's ruin or making him realize how bad he is acting and change (I would really rather if it was the second option, but I already explained why I think it will be the first one in my other replies, still maybe I will have my hopes for now, depending on how many parts we have left in this TT+ he may redeem himself, but if we only have 1 or 2 parts left then I still think he will die and maybe have a "pitty me" speech about his sad past before his death like Ótr, and kinda like Plumeria and Triandra (even if they're not dead anymore)) and I think IS will give us the satisfaction of seeing one of those things happen (again, I hope Laegjarn helps Muspell have a change of heart, I agree that this cliche is cool). Also maybe IS will bring her back for real because now they saw that with Laevatein in power (and being the only heir left to be in power), they would either have to create some kind of plot about how bad her reign is (and how she is manipulated by advisors, etc) or have her run away leaving a sucession problem, and maybe they didn't want to do it, so bringing Laegjarn back would be easier to avoid all of this.

 Actually, running away like that to become a mercenary after losing her sister and ascending to power actually sounds a lot like something Laevatein would do, since she sees herself as a weapon and now she probably thinks that she is an unseless weapon with no master to use her (neither Surtr to serve, Laegjarn to protect,...) so I can see her wanting to serve as her random clients' weapon to at least not feel that she is completely devoid of utility. But again, maybe she is still in Muspell because otherwise IS would have to create some kind of plot about sucession problems and this kind of stuff, not that I think that they wouldnt do it (like, we had similar plots in FE before) but considering the amount of lose ends we had in the other books that still have to be taken care of in the future of this game, maybe there wouldnt be time to deal with everything + Muspell's sucession problems, so it would definitively be easier to find a simpler way to end this plot. Also, in Laevatein's ninja alt she still seems pretty compromised to her sister (even tough is never explicitly said whether this Laevatein's Laegjarn is alive or not, but if she is also dead, then this Laevatein is compromised to do her will even after her death) saying lots of times that she will do things for Laegjarn, so I wouldn't be surprised if our main story Laevatein decided to stay and try to rule Muspell because that is what her sister would want (maybe IS will even go as far as to as use the excuse that Laevatein's reign is not that crappy because she rules the country taking decisions she thinks her sister would do or want her to do, and doing this for 1 year could have even helped her with some of her empathy problems since she would tried have put herself in someone else's place during this whole time) (even in this case I think Laegjarn will take the throne when she comes back, because she would still be a obviously better queen). I guess I would like it better if Laevatein had actually ran away to become a mercenary and when Laegjarn comes back home she finds out that Muspell is being ruled by someone else (who took it by force after Laevatein's departure, kinda like Fafnir took Nidavellir's throne by force after the fall of the royal family) so she will have to take the throne back AND go after her sister (or maybe even ask the Order of heroes to find her sister for her). Yeah, I can't wait to see how's Muspell now.

 

 Other theory would be that Laevatein is peacefully ruling as queen (whether she is rulling as she thinks Laegjarn would or not) and is having help from the order of Heroes and Nifl (yes, it would be weird to have help from the very kingdom that was attacked by yours, but since Nifl was attacked by Surtr and not Laevatein, and the Ice siblings became friends/allies with Laevatein and Laegjarn during the story and united to destroy Surtr, I could easily see them helping her rebuild her country from her father's havok, maybe both countries are even allies now... This would surely piss Nifl and Muspell off if they saw it), then Laegjarn arrives and takes back the throne with no problems, but I think this is the laziest way to fill this gap, because the characters could just say "Oh, Laegjarn, you're alive, don't worry about your sister or Muspell, they're both doing fine, she's been the queen for a year now and even if she struggles a little, Nifl and the Order have been helping her" in like one dialogue box, and I wanted to see more than this, so I hope this is not the case.

 About Laegjarn being Laevatein's advisor instead of queen: I don't think this would happen even if Laevatein got rid of her gimmick, because Laegjarn is already smarter and definitively more suitable for the ruler role than her Laevatein (and also is the elder sibling but, as Mercakete said, we don't know if being the elder is relevant in muspellian royal ascension or not), so I don't think she would let Laevatein be the queen, they are dealing with the fate of a country so doing this (letting Laevatein rule the country until she learns how to do it, with basically Laegjarn doing everything for her until she start to do it by herself even if Laegjarn is ALREADY more suitable for a queen) might not be a very good idea, unless Laevatein does whatever her sister tells her but then it would be basically the same as Laegjarn being the queen, it would be pointless. What I think that can happen tough is Laegjarn being the queen while she teaches Laevatein what to do (and how to deal better with her feelings, how to have more empathy,...) so when she dies her sister can be a proper ruler, that would be the smartest thing to do since this way she wouldn't compromise her country's fate by letting Laevatein rule it like a trial and error.

 

 @Defying fates: Not that it matters too much here or now, but Hellbindi is never explicitly said to be dead (ok, even if it were relatively obvious that he died, its not shown or confirmed, so there have been some theories about whether he is still alive or not).

[ARMADS!!!]

On 10/8/2021 at 10:21 PM, Hilda said:

Considering we are almost ending the Legendary Heroes cycle (or ended it). There might be new "evolved" Legendaries for a new mode?

I hope not, but i think IS will introduce with Book VI a new mode that needs a different kind of Legendary. I just dont see them adding more new Legendaries (besides Xander). It kinda fizzled out (Mythic is different). I dont know, everything is confusing anyway with Muspell and Nifl not being Mythics and now this. Its like they are throwing stuff at us to try and see what works without much of a plan.

 

On 10/8/2021 at 10:36 PM, Tybrosion said:

Micaiah was the 16th Pair Up Legendary, so that chart is indeed complete.

Personally, I'm more inclined to believe Champion Fjorm will be the start of a new brand of Legendaries rather than being unceremoniously dumped off on a New Heroes banner.

Either way, we'll know what IS's intentions are when this TT ends because the next New Heroes banner should start immediately afterwards (so on the 18th, give or take).

   I think it hasn't ended yet, we still don't have F!Byleth, M!Corrin and M!Robin (because for some reason Fallen F!Robin is legendary but Fallen M!Robin isn't?), and others I have in mind but it would be a giant ass text in the wrong thread if I talked about it, So I will save it for later, also I think champion Fjorm will be a legendary too(and likely we will get a champion Lagjarn). Do we already have the Legendary thread this month? (cuz if we do I can't find it anywhere, but I don't want to create one without being sure)

 

Also, Yeah, I'm pretty sure they are throwing stuff at us to see what works too.

Edited October 16, 2021 by ARMADS!!!

[Tybrosion]

2 hours ago, ARMADS!!! said:

I think it hasn't ended yet, we still don't have F!Byleth, M!Corrin and M!Robin (because for some reason Fallen F!Robin is legendary but Fallen M!Robin isn't?), and others I have in mind but it would be a giant ass text in the wrong thread if I talked about it, So I will save it for later, also I think champion Fjorm will be a legendary too(and likely we will get a champion Lagjarn). Do we already have the Legendary thread this month? (cuz if we do I can't find it anywhere, but I don't want to create one without being sure)

Yeah, we don’t have the opposite gender avatars as Legendaries but that doesn’t matter because the Pair Up Legendary chart is, as I said, complete:

Spoiler

So, there’s two options: IS either just expands the chart or moves onto a new type of Legendary Hero. Regardless, the New Heroes trailer should be later today so we’ll know whether Champion Fjorm is a Legendary or not soon enough.

And also, no I don’t believe a thread has been made for this month’s Legendary. As such, here’s what the Legendary/ Mythic calendar currently looks like for reference:

Spoiler

[Othin]

5 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

Yeah, we don’t have the opposite gender avatars as Legendaries but that doesn’t matter because the Pair Up Legendary chart is, as I said, complete:

  Hide contents

So, there’s two options: IS either just expands the chart or moves onto a new type of Legendary Hero. Regardless, the New Heroes trailer should be later today so we’ll know whether Champion Fjorm is a Legendary or not soon enough.

And also, no I don’t believe a thread has been made for this month’s Legendary. As such, here’s what the Legendary/ Mythic calendar currently looks like for reference:

  Hide contents

They've repeatedly expanded the pair up chart before, so I don't think there's anything special about this time.

[Mercakete]

@ARMADS!!! @DefyingFates

I didn't think this would ever be relevant, but back in 2018 or so I did write up a support conversation between Hrid and Leavateinn regarding what happened to Muspell and Nifl after book 2. Here's a copy. It includes conversations C through S, so it's a bit long, so here's some spoiler tags. I don't remember if, back then, I still thought Gunnthra was older than Hrid or not, though, so if you see that, then just know that I now know Hrid is older than Gunnthra and it doesn't really change anything important here.

Spoiler

Hrid x Laevatein C

Laevatein: ...

Hrid: Oh. Princess Laevatein.

Laevatein: … Prince Hird.

Hrid: How...have you been?

Laevatein: I have followed every command the summoner has issued me since coming here. The summoner seems satisfied with my work.

Hrid: That's not really what I meant... I meant you, personally. It is not only Nifl that needs to rebuild. Now that we are at peace, the task of restoring our kingdoms fall to us. It is a trying task, and it can be a difficult burden.

Laevatein: I am not a ruler. I am a weapon. I feel nothing. I only act. *leaves*

Hrid: Princess-! … Sigh.

 

Hrid x Laevatein B

Hrid: Princess Laevatein.

Laevatein: You again.

Hrid: Please, Princess, hear what I have to say.

Laevatein: … I'm listening.

Hrid: Thank you. I didn't mean to upset you before. I was only trying to ensure you were doing well. Muspell is your home, and it is suffering. Your father and your sister are gone... It cannot be easy.

Laevatein: I am a weapon. I do not feel.

Hrid: Right... Well, I wanted to formally offer the support of Nifl in Muspell's restoration. It is my hope that by recovering along side one another that our countries' wounds will heal that much faster, and that a bond may yet grow between our people.

Laevatein: Do what you will. My only role is to follow orders, and right now I follow the orders of the summoner. Excuse me. *leaves*

Hrid: Hmm...

 

Hrid x Laevatein A

Hrid: Princess.

Laevatein: Prince Hrid.

Hrid: I have been thinking about what you said before. About you simply being a weapon... I'm not sure I believe you.

Laevatein: My blade bears the same name as me. We are one.

Hrid: Your sister protected you to the end, didn't she? She died for you.

Laevatein: ...

Hrid: She loved you very much...and I believe that you also loved her.

Laevatein: ...

Hrid: You fill your time with what you know. You claim you are nothing but a weapon - that you have no feelings. But in actuality, you are trying to escape the pain you feel from losing her: the one you loved so much.

Laevatein: Stop...

Hrid: Hm?

Laevatein: Stop accusing me of such things! I am Laevatein, the blade that cuts when commanded - nothing more! I will not feel!

Hrid: The sooner you accept your feelings, the sooner you can heal, Princess of Muspell. Ignore them, and they will steadily destroy you.

Laevatein: Ignorant prince! I've told you many times - I do not feel! *leaves*

Hrid: ...

 

Hrid x Laevatein S

Laevatein: ...

Hrid: Princess Laevatein? I had thought you had enough of me.

Laevatein: I spoke with the summoner. Prince Hrid of Nifl… You are a hypocrite.

Hrid: I'm...not sure I understand.

Laevatein: I've been watching you. You've been working day and night between organizing Nifl and Muspell's restoration and assisting with the tasks the summoner gives you here in the Order of Heroes. You're working yourself to the bone, trying to ensure everyone else is taken care of. Including me...

Hrid: I understand that the flames your father spread have hurt many people. It is my duty to see those wounds healed.

Laevatein: You accused me of running from my pain. I accuse you of the same.

Hrid: What?

Laevatein: You are filling your time with assisting everyone else so that you don't have to think about your mother or your sister, aren't you?

Hrid: … I...didn't think that I was, but...you may be right. I failed to protect them...all of them... I must live with that failure.

Laevatein: I am the same. Laegjarn… My sister... … She died because of me. Because of my failure. ... That is the truth. She protected me. I couldn't protect her.

Hrid: Princess Laegjarn… Gunnthra… They were stronger than both of us.

Laevatein: ...

Hrid: … Princess Laevatein.

Laevatein: Yes?

Hrid: Let's grow stronger together. Let's become as strong as our honorable, fallen sisters were and make them proud to call us their siblings. I will do what I can to assist you, and you will do what you can to assist me, in both rulership and in strength of arms. We will rebuild Nifl and Muspell together, and protect everyone our sisters died for.

Laevatein: Pactbound allies?

Hrid: For now, at the very least. I would not be opposed to this developing into a closer, more personal relationship in the future, however. I know I am not very..."warm and fuzzy," but I hope I am not too off-putting. Speaking on an emotional level has never been easy for me. I admire your dedication and straightforwardness. Your perception to what I was really going through is likewise impressive. And on a practical level- ... Princess? You...suddenly look flushed.

Laevatein: E-emotions...are difficult...

Hrid: Hahaha! That they are.

 

[DefyingFates]

39 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

@ARMADS!!! @DefyingFates

I didn't think this would ever be relevant, but back in 2018 or so I did write up a support conversation between Hrid and Leavateinn regarding what happened to Muspell and Nifl after book 2. Here's a copy. It includes conversations C through S, so it's a bit long, so here's some spoiler tags. I don't remember if, back then, I still thought Gunnthra was older than Hrid or not, though, so if you see that, then just know that I now know Hrid is older than Gunnthra and it doesn't really change anything important here.

  Reveal hidden contents

Hrid x Laevatein C

Laevatein: ...

Hrid: Oh. Princess Laevatein.

Laevatein: … Prince Hird.

Hrid: How...have you been?

Laevatein: I have followed every command the summoner has issued me since coming here. The summoner seems satisfied with my work.

Hrid: That's not really what I meant... I meant you, personally. It is not only Nifl that needs to rebuild. Now that we are at peace, the task of restoring our kingdoms fall to us. It is a trying task, and it can be a difficult burden.

Laevatein: I am not a ruler. I am a weapon. I feel nothing. I only act. *leaves*

Hrid: Princess-! … Sigh.

 

Hrid x Laevatein B

Hrid: Princess Laevatein.

Laevatein: You again.

Hrid: Please, Princess, hear what I have to say.

Laevatein: … I'm listening.

Hrid: Thank you. I didn't mean to upset you before. I was only trying to ensure you were doing well. Muspell is your home, and it is suffering. Your father and your sister are gone... It cannot be easy.

Laevatein: I am a weapon. I do not feel.

Hrid: Right... Well, I wanted to formally offer the support of Nifl in Muspell's restoration. It is my hope that by recovering along side one another that our countries' wounds will heal that much faster, and that a bond may yet grow between our people.

Laevatein: Do what you will. My only role is to follow orders, and right now I follow the orders of the summoner. Excuse me. *leaves*

Hrid: Hmm...

 

Hrid x Laevatein A

Hrid: Princess.

Laevatein: Prince Hrid.

Hrid: I have been thinking about what you said before. About you simply being a weapon... I'm not sure I believe you.

Laevatein: My blade bears the same name as me. We are one.

Hrid: Your sister protected you to the end, didn't she? She died for you.

Laevatein: ...

Hrid: She loved you very much...and I believe that you also loved her.

Laevatein: ...

Hrid: You fill your time with what you know. You claim you are nothing but a weapon - that you have no feelings. But in actuality, you are trying to escape the pain you feel from losing her: the one you loved so much.

Laevatein: Stop...

Hrid: Hm?

Laevatein: Stop accusing me of such things! I am Laevatein, the blade that cuts when commanded - nothing more! I will not feel!

Hrid: The sooner you accept your feelings, the sooner you can heal, Princess of Muspell. Ignore them, and they will steadily destroy you.

Laevatein: Ignorant prince! I've told you many times - I do not feel! *leaves*

Hrid: ...

 

Hrid x Laevatein S

Laevatein: ...

Hrid: Princess Laevatein? I had thought you had enough of me.

Laevatein: I spoke with the summoner. Prince Hrid of Nifl… You are a hypocrite.

Hrid: I'm...not sure I understand.

Laevatein: I've been watching you. You've been working day and night between organizing Nifl and Muspell's restoration and assisting with the tasks the summoner gives you here in the Order of Heroes. You're working yourself to the bone, trying to ensure everyone else is taken care of. Including me...

Hrid: I understand that the flames your father spread have hurt many people. It is my duty to see those wounds healed.

Laevatein: You accused me of running from my pain. I accuse you of the same.

Hrid: What?

Laevatein: You are filling your time with assisting everyone else so that you don't have to think about your mother or your sister, aren't you?

Hrid: … I...didn't think that I was, but...you may be right. I failed to protect them...all of them... I must live with that failure.

Laevatein: I am the same. Laegjarn… My sister... … She died because of me. Because of my failure. ... That is the truth. She protected me. I couldn't protect her.

Hrid: Princess Laegjarn… Gunnthra… They were stronger than both of us.

Laevatein: ...

Hrid: … Princess Laevatein.

Laevatein: Yes?

Hrid: Let's grow stronger together. Let's become as strong as our honorable, fallen sisters were and make them proud to call us their siblings. I will do what I can to assist you, and you will do what you can to assist me, in both rulership and in strength of arms. We will rebuild Nifl and Muspell together, and protect everyone our sisters died for.

Laevatein: Pactbound allies?

Hrid: For now, at the very least. I would not be opposed to this developing into a closer, more personal relationship in the future, however. I know I am not very..."warm and fuzzy," but I hope I am not too off-putting. Speaking on an emotional level has never been easy for me. I admire your dedication and straightforwardness. Your perception to what I was really going through is likewise impressive. And on a practical level- ... Princess? You...suddenly look flushed.

Laevatein: E-emotions...are difficult...

Hrid: Hahaha! That they are.

 

That's a really sweet scenario, thank you! It reminds me of the GBA supports, which is always a good thing~

Oh, and as for the worldbuilding, I think it's a good take on that too!

[Mercakete]

5 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

That's a really sweet scenario, thank you! It reminds me of the GBA supports, which is always a good thing~

Oh, and as for the worldbuilding, I think it's a good take on that too!

Thanks. 🙂 Yeah, I've always found those two to be a natural match. At least, I thought so after book 2 was done, especially after hearing/reading one of Hrid's quotes. He says that he must "become the blade" which will defend his kingdom. Sure sounds like these two have things in common to me! And, honestly, (as you can see in the supports) I think he'd be good for helping her learn how to think for herself. The guy's already a protective and nurturing sort, but practical, too. (In case it wasn't obvious, I ship these guys hard. And though I'm a bit unhappy that this isn't the way the canon seems to be rolling (what with Laegjarn coming back into things), it's not like it's hopeless for these two. Just...less likely. Like, regarding diplomatic stuff, Hrid's going to be working with Laegjarn instead, and Leavateinn will be her sister's cist again. So, Hrid and Leavateinn are more likely to just look past each other and not ever realize how much they have in common/what great chemistry they have. Frustrating, but I'm not one to fight canon unless it's shoddy as all get out, and this isn't that.

[DefyingFates]

23 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Frustrating, but I'm not one to fight canon unless it's shoddy as all get out, and this isn't that.

I'm relieved to hear that you woke up this morning and chose peace 😛

Watching the ending today gave me a shower thought: what if Laegjarn just chooses to.. not use the Flame Gem? It seems the easiest way for her to defy Muspell and the prophecy about her battle, while also adding some emotion to her fight with Fjorm - and from a Doylist perspective, killing her off again would keep this plot line isolated from the rest of the story.

[Othin]

I've been using Muspell in the new Forging Bonds, and... as far as I can tell, one of his voiced lines is "squeal, squeal, squeal!"

This guy is impossible to take seriously, and I think that's for the best.

Edit: His level 40 conversation involves complaining about shirts.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Othin

[Mercakete]

2 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Watching the ending today gave me a shower thought: what if Laegjarn just chooses to.. not use the Flame Gem? It seems the easiest way for her to defy Muspell and the prophecy about her battle, while also adding some emotion to her fight with Fjorm - and from a Doylist perspective, killing her off again would keep this plot line isolated from the rest of the story.

Good thought. It'd also make Thorr and Loki perhaps begin to think that the future isn't as set in stone as they thought, making them take threads to all-dad a bit more seriously on Thorr's part and think "how can I upend as many things as possible?" on Loki's.

Edit: ...Which may lead to Loki kicking off Ragnarok using the Order of Heroes because Loki always is the reason Ragnarok starts.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Mercakete

[ARMADS!!!]

On 10/17/2021 at 11:18 AM, Mercakete said:

@ARMADS!!! @DefyingFates

I didn't think this would ever be relevant, but back in 2018 or so I did write up a support conversation between Hrid and Leavateinn regarding what happened to Muspell and Nifl after book 2. Here's a copy. It includes conversations C through S, so it's a bit long, so here's some spoiler tags. I don't remember if, back then, I still thought Gunnthra was older than Hrid or not, though, so if you see that, then just know that I now know Hrid is older than Gunnthra and it doesn't really change anything important here.

  Reveal hidden contents

Hrid x Laevatein C

Laevatein: ...

Hrid: Oh. Princess Laevatein.

Laevatein: … Prince Hird.

Hrid: How...have you been?

Laevatein: I have followed every command the summoner has issued me since coming here. The summoner seems satisfied with my work.

Hrid: That's not really what I meant... I meant you, personally. It is not only Nifl that needs to rebuild. Now that we are at peace, the task of restoring our kingdoms fall to us. It is a trying task, and it can be a difficult burden.

Laevatein: I am not a ruler. I am a weapon. I feel nothing. I only act. *leaves*

Hrid: Princess-! … Sigh.

 

Hrid x Laevatein B

Hrid: Princess Laevatein.

Laevatein: You again.

Hrid: Please, Princess, hear what I have to say.

Laevatein: … I'm listening.

Hrid: Thank you. I didn't mean to upset you before. I was only trying to ensure you were doing well. Muspell is your home, and it is suffering. Your father and your sister are gone... It cannot be easy.

Laevatein: I am a weapon. I do not feel.

Hrid: Right... Well, I wanted to formally offer the support of Nifl in Muspell's restoration. It is my hope that by recovering along side one another that our countries' wounds will heal that much faster, and that a bond may yet grow between our people.

Laevatein: Do what you will. My only role is to follow orders, and right now I follow the orders of the summoner. Excuse me. *leaves*

Hrid: Hmm...

 

Hrid x Laevatein A

Hrid: Princess.

Laevatein: Prince Hrid.

Hrid: I have been thinking about what you said before. About you simply being a weapon... I'm not sure I believe you.

Laevatein: My blade bears the same name as me. We are one.

Hrid: Your sister protected you to the end, didn't she? She died for you.

Laevatein: ...

Hrid: She loved you very much...and I believe that you also loved her.

Laevatein: ...

Hrid: You fill your time with what you know. You claim you are nothing but a weapon - that you have no feelings. But in actuality, you are trying to escape the pain you feel from losing her: the one you loved so much.

Laevatein: Stop...

Hrid: Hm?

Laevatein: Stop accusing me of such things! I am Laevatein, the blade that cuts when commanded - nothing more! I will not feel!

Hrid: The sooner you accept your feelings, the sooner you can heal, Princess of Muspell. Ignore them, and they will steadily destroy you.

Laevatein: Ignorant prince! I've told you many times - I do not feel! *leaves*

Hrid: ...

 

Hrid x Laevatein S

Laevatein: ...

Hrid: Princess Laevatein? I had thought you had enough of me.

Laevatein: I spoke with the summoner. Prince Hrid of Nifl… You are a hypocrite.

Hrid: I'm...not sure I understand.

Laevatein: I've been watching you. You've been working day and night between organizing Nifl and Muspell's restoration and assisting with the tasks the summoner gives you here in the Order of Heroes. You're working yourself to the bone, trying to ensure everyone else is taken care of. Including me...

Hrid: I understand that the flames your father spread have hurt many people. It is my duty to see those wounds healed.

Laevatein: You accused me of running from my pain. I accuse you of the same.

Hrid: What?

Laevatein: You are filling your time with assisting everyone else so that you don't have to think about your mother or your sister, aren't you?

Hrid: … I...didn't think that I was, but...you may be right. I failed to protect them...all of them... I must live with that failure.

Laevatein: I am the same. Laegjarn… My sister... … She died because of me. Because of my failure. ... That is the truth. She protected me. I couldn't protect her.

Hrid: Princess Laegjarn… Gunnthra… They were stronger than both of us.

Laevatein: ...

Hrid: … Princess Laevatein.

Laevatein: Yes?

Hrid: Let's grow stronger together. Let's become as strong as our honorable, fallen sisters were and make them proud to call us their siblings. I will do what I can to assist you, and you will do what you can to assist me, in both rulership and in strength of arms. We will rebuild Nifl and Muspell together, and protect everyone our sisters died for.

Laevatein: Pactbound allies?

Hrid: For now, at the very least. I would not be opposed to this developing into a closer, more personal relationship in the future, however. I know I am not very..."warm and fuzzy," but I hope I am not too off-putting. Speaking on an emotional level has never been easy for me. I admire your dedication and straightforwardness. Your perception to what I was really going through is likewise impressive. And on a practical level- ... Princess? You...suddenly look flushed.

Laevatein: E-emotions...are difficult...

Hrid: Hahaha! That they are.

 

I really liked this too, and I agree with DefyingFates that it looks like GBA supports. Now I think I ship them too, never had thought about this before but they are both calm and don't express their emotions often and all, they're perfect for each other! Well, canonically, neither Hríd or Laevatein are in the order but I still enjoyed the world building you put there, it makes both of them look more busy (and also a great excuse for them to have constant conversations). Did you write more of these fanmade support conversations? Cuz if you did, you should post them somewhere here in Serenes.

 

3 hours ago, Othin said:

I've been using Muspell in the new Forging Bonds, and... as far as I can tell, one of his voiced lines is "squeal, squeal, squeal!"

This guy is impossible to take seriously, and I think that's for the best.

Edit: His level 40 conversation involves complaining about shirts.

 He also says THIS(in the spoiler tag) in his lv 40 conversation, for whoever is interested in taking him even less seriously:

Spoiler

"Do as you please, take whats yours and if someone complains, stab them."

  It looks like something that an edgy 12 years old addicted to Five Nights at Freddy's would say to their younger sibling to look cool.

 

2 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Good thought. It'd also make Thorr and Loki perhaps begin to think that the future isn't as set in stone as they thought, making them take threads to all-dad a bit more seriously on Thorr's part and think "how can I upend as many things as possible?" on Loki's.

Edit: ...Which may lead to Loki kicking off Ragnarok using the Order of Heroes because Loki always is the reason Ragnarok starts.

 Wasn't it stated somewhere (I'm almost sure it was in a cutscene in the Abyss forging bonds, that book that Loki was looking for) that the Ragnarok was already written to happen?(I'm not exactly sure) Also, the Ragnarok actually starts because of Loki's children (and as far as I remember, by 2 of Loki's grandchildren too)

[Mercakete]

17 minutes ago, ARMADS!!! said:

I really liked this too, and I agree with DefyingFates that it looks like GBA supports. Now I think I ship them too, never had thought about this before but they are both calm and don't express their emotions often and all, they're perfect for each other! Well, canonically, neither Hríd or Laevatein are in the order but I still enjoyed the world building you put there, it makes both of them look more busy (and also a great excuse for them to have constant conversations). Did you write more of these fanmade support conversations? Cuz if you did, you should post them somewhere here in Serenes.

Yeah, there was a thread dedicated to it years ago and I submitted several pieces. Since (historically) you can only view supports of units you have, I wrote it from the perspective of summoned units who are actually in the summoner's barracks. Also, I don't think it was quite made clear at that time (2017) that everyone you summon is an alternate version of the character from some alternate universe in the FE multiverse, so I thought the guys in the story were helping out in Askr if you summoned them (kind of like how the Askr trio and the free book units you get are the same as the ones in the story.) Anyway, though it's not a complete record, I have a bunch of stuff I've written throughout the Heroes forums compiled in its own thread in Creative. You can check it out if you're curious.

Anyway, thanks. ^_^ I'm glad you enjoyed it, and it's always fun for me to see the realizations click in other people when I try to express a point. Welcome to the Hrid x Lievateinn shipping club! I think there's like...1 other person who at least used to ship them, but...well, it's not an obvious ship. Also, I kind of want a comic of Hrid and Lievateinn sitting Nifl and Muspell down "break the news to the parents" style.

Quote

Wasn't it stated somewhere (I'm almost sure it was in a cutscene in the Abyss forging bonds, that book that Loki was looking for) that the Ragnarok was already written to happen?

I don't know if it was foretold that Ragnarok specifically would happen or if Loki was just being Loki, but I do know that it was said that there's going to be a big fight culminating in Askr.

Quote

Also, the Ragnarok actually starts because of Loki's children (and as far as I remember, by 2 of Loki's grandchildren too)

To be fair, Norse mythology in general is basically one big trip so I'm not invested enough to look up every detail. At least not at this moment.

[ARMADS!!!]

Soooo, now that we already got the ending of the TT, I think its fair game to discuss it without spoiler tags, right?

 

 Maybe I'm a little slow, but I just want to be sure I got it: The Firestone Muspell shows to Laegjarn is his own Dragon stone right?(He says to her "this stone is your life blood" which I'm not sure wheter he meant "This is what will save you" or something else, in portuguese he says "This is the blood that runs in your veins" and for me it looked like he was telling her that it was his dragonstone and used this expression to present it to Laegjarn because she is his descendant and has his blood, now I don't know how this sentence is put in japanese) If it is,  then why the hell it would be able to ressurrect her? Is it ever mentioned in other FE game that a Dragon stone can ressurect dragons or dragon's descendants?

 

 Also, Laegjarn says "This stone! Its just like my father-", was she going to say that it was "just like her father's"? Like... Was Surt a manakete all along oooor... (I always though he was of mixed Muspell and Jotun descendance because of his size and cuz norse mythology's Surtr is an actual giant). If he is, it sounds a little...pointless? Maybe he just possessed a Fire Stone that wasn't even his?

 Is this some kind of weird twist, a massively desnecessary thing or just my misinterpratation? I'm kinda confused with this. I wonder how many times this stone can be used to ressurect Laegjarn (like, she can use it how many times she wants to? forever?), and why doesn't Nifl has a similar one.

 

 Also, am I the only one that thinks that Loki may have lied to Muspell about the content of the runes?(or about the powers of the Fire Stone)  Because he would then head to battle sure about his victory but in fact it wasn't true?

[Mercakete]

2 hours ago, ARMADS!!! said:

Soooo, now that we already got the ending of the TT, I think its fair game to discuss it without spoiler tags, right?

 

 Maybe I'm a little slow, but I just want to be sure I got it: The Firestone Muspell shows to Laegjarn is his own Dragon stone right?(He says to her "this stone is your life blood" which I'm not sure wheter he meant "This is what will save you" or something else, in portuguese he says "This is the blood that runs in your veins" and for me it looked like he was telling her that it was his dragonstone and used this expression to present it to Laegjarn because she is his descendant and has his blood, now I don't know how this sentence is put in japanese) If it is,  then why the hell it would be able to ressurrect her? Is it ever mentioned in other FE game that a Dragon stone can ressurect dragons or dragon's descendants?

 

 Also, Laegjarn says "This stone! Its just like my father-", was she going to say that it was "just like her father's"? Like... Was Surt a manakete all along oooor... (I always though he was of mixed Muspell and Jotun descendance because of his size and cuz norse mythology's Surtr is an actual giant). If he is, it sounds a little...pointless? Maybe he just possessed a Fire Stone that wasn't even his?

 Is this some kind of weird twist, a massively desnecessary thing or just my misinterpratation? I'm kinda confused with this. I wonder how many times this stone can be used to ressurect Laegjarn (like, she can use it how many times she wants to? forever?), and why doesn't Nifl has a similar one.

 

 Also, am I the only one that thinks that Loki may have lied to Muspell about the content of the runes?(or about the powers of the Fire Stone)  Because he would then head to battle sure about his victory but in fact it wasn't true?

You could be right about Loki, but it seems like she was legit about it based on her conversation with Thorr. Also, interesting thought on it being a dragonstone, but it's probably just its own thing. Also, it's probably the reason Surtr had that skill that made him unkillable. My thought is that Surtr probably only was able to use his because of the Rite of Flame that he performed (numerous times) and it was probably a relic from the last time Muspell was alive. It wouldn't be too farfetched to assume the King of Muspell had a relic imbued with Muspell's power. The whole revival+fire thing actually makes me think more of phoenixes, but that's just an aside. In short, I think it's just some relic that's keeping Laegjarn alive because it's a physical manifestation of Muspell's power and Laegjarn died from the Rite of Flames (which is also Muspell's power) and was probably used to charge the stone (especially since Surtr had to perform the rite again and again in order to maintain his power and that power is what made him unkillable.)

[ARMADS!!!]

59 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

You could be right about Loki, but it seems like she was legit about it based on her conversation with Thorr. Also, interesting thought on it being a dragonstone, but it's probably just its own thing. Also, it's probably the reason Surtr had that skill that made him unkillable. My thought is that Surtr probably only was able to use his because of the Rite of Flame that he performed (numerous times) and it was probably a relic from the last time Muspell was alive. It wouldn't be too farfetched to assume the King of Muspell had a relic imbued with Muspell's power. The whole revival+fire thing actually makes me think more of phoenixes, but that's just an aside. In short, I think it's just some relic that's keeping Laegjarn alive because it's a physical manifestation of Muspell's power and Laegjarn died from the Rite of Flames (which is also Muspell's power) and was probably used to charge the stone (especially since Surtr had to perform the rite again and again in order to maintain his power and that power is what made him unkillable.)

 Well, you have a point. Thórr says something like "I wonder how does he knows what is written on the runes, Loki?", so she must have told the truth, otherwise Thórr wouldn't have stated that he knew what was there.

 Oh, I also realized that I'm very likely wrong on the dragonstone thing too, I read the english dialogue again and noted that Muspell calls it "Fire gem" and not "Fire stone", thats why I didn't think anything of it when I read the final text here in this thread somedays ago(when it was still a spoiler), but today when I saw it in the game I immeaditly freaked out thinking it was his dragon stone because in portuguese its called "Pedra do Fogo" (and the word "Pedra" is the same for Gem and Stone so I forgot that it was suposed to be Fire Gem and immeaditly associated it with a Dragon Stone). Sorry, my mistake.

 It makes sense about the Fire Gem being what gave power to Surtr, kinda like Fjorm did the rite of frost and used her flesh as the offer and Breidablik as the object that would get the power, Surtr might have used the Fire Gem as the object that would get the power from Laegjarn's sacrifice. And since Muspell's and Nifl's powers are equal, that would justify why would a object blessed by the rite of frost be able to nullify an object blessed by the rite of flames and vice versa (thats why Breidablik could make Surtr vulnerable to attacks again, I don't remember if they explained this on book II already, when Fjorm suggested doing the rite of frost). Good call on the phoenix thing. And also, maybe the Gem doesn't have to be "charged" but since became blessed by Muspell's powers when he did the rite of flames it will now remain like this forever (and nothing would be able to negate its power unless Kiran saves Fjorm with Breidablik or someone else does the rite of Frost and gives the new object to Fjorm). I mean, I don't exacly remember if it was said that Surtr did the rite again to avoid losing his invincibility or just to become even stronger/"more invincible" (in the second case, we would be able to assume that the gem doesnt need to be "charged" and that the blessing indeed lasts forever but he did it again to make the object more powerful, while in the first case maybe the Gem DOES need something each time it works to activate again and so Laegjarn may only be able to use it once otherwise she would have to do another sacrifice to charge it again).

[Mercakete]

13 hours ago, ARMADS!!! said:

 Well, you have a point. Thórr says something like "I wonder how does he knows what is written on the runes, Loki?", so she must have told the truth, otherwise Thórr wouldn't have stated that he knew what was there.

 Oh, I also realized that I'm very likely wrong on the dragonstone thing too, I read the english dialogue again and noted that Muspell calls it "Fire gem" and not "Fire stone", thats why I didn't think anything of it when I read the final text here in this thread somedays ago(when it was still a spoiler), but today when I saw it in the game I immeaditly freaked out thinking it was his dragon stone because in portuguese its called "Pedra do Fogo" (and the word "Pedra" is the same for Gem and Stone so I forgot that it was suposed to be Fire Gem and immeaditly associated it with a Dragon Stone). Sorry, my mistake.

 It makes sense about the Fire Gem being what gave power to Surtr, kinda like Fjorm did the rite of frost and used her flesh as the offer and Breidablik as the object that would get the power, Surtr might have used the Fire Gem as the object that would get the power from Laegjarn's sacrifice. And since Muspell's and Nifl's powers are equal, that would justify why would a object blessed by the rite of frost be able to nullify an object blessed by the rite of flames and vice versa (thats why Breidablik could make Surtr vulnerable to attacks again, I don't remember if they explained this on book II already, when Fjorm suggested doing the rite of frost). Good call on the phoenix thing. And also, maybe the Gem doesn't have to be "charged" but since became blessed by Muspell's powers when he did the rite of flames it will now remain like this forever (and nothing would be able to negate its power unless Kiran saves Fjorm with Breidablik or someone else does the rite of Frost and gives the new object to Fjorm). I mean, I don't exacly remember if it was said that Surtr did the rite again to avoid losing his invincibility or just to become even stronger/"more invincible" (in the second case, we would be able to assume that the gem doesnt need to be "charged" and that the blessing indeed lasts forever but he did it again to make the object more powerful, while in the first case maybe the Gem DOES need something each time it works to activate again and so Laegjarn may only be able to use it once otherwise she would have to do another sacrifice to charge it again).

It was said that Surtr performed the rite many times in order to keep his power. So, yeah, it runs out after a while. This may be because he offered the lives of other people, though. (It was said that, in particular, he offered young girls, which is why Ylgr and Veronica needed rescuing.) This is also probably where a lot of his kids went (he had many more than just Laegjarn and Lievateinn, but those were the two who survived to book 2. In particular, it was said that Surtr killed his children if they showed weakness, which is part of why Laegjarn did so much to help Lievateinn get stronger.)