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Metorid Dread Discussion/Impression


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2 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

It won't be my first; it'll be my second. As I said, Super Metroid is already my first.

For some reason I thought you said you only played it for a little bit. So uh...up to you if you want Dread, I guess. If you think a game that is pretty similar to Super Metroid but came out in 2021 will be worth it for you, go for it.

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Just now, Florete said:

For some reason I thought you said you only played it for a little bit. So uh...up to you if you want Dread, I guess. If you think a game that is pretty similar to Super Metroid but came out in 2021 will be worth it for you, go for it.

Ah; I see. I probably should've clarified that I finished Super Metroid (I got 75% on my first playthrough with extremely minimal use of a walkthrough, and given what I said about the red doors, you can probably guess what the walkthrough was for).

Hm... I liked exploring and getting lost, I liked Samus' arsenal of ranged weaponry (I generally prefer melee combat in video games, but with side-scrollers, I prefer ranged combat, probably because of Mega Man, but also because of how collision usually works in side-scrollers), it kind-of felt like playing through one giant Zelda Dungeon that had multiple items and bosses (but with platforming instead of puzzles), and I liked the backtracking. One thing I didn't like was being presented with several doors, all but one leading to side-content, and somehow picking the only door that's the way forward when I was wanting to find side-content. I really don't know if I think it will be worth it.

 

19 minutes ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

There's a demo for it now

Ah; perfect timing. I'll try the demo then to see if I want the game.

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1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

It won't be my first; it'll be my second. As I said, Super Metroid is already my first.

I thought that it held up fairly well overall aside from some smaller stuff like the limited aiming, some cramped boss rooms (not cramped in a "makes the player feel claustrophobic" way, but in an annoying, "There's nowhere to go to dodge this attack" way), the red doors requiring five missiles to open without anything to tell you that it takes five missiles, and that one optional section where you have to learn how to wall jump to escape.

I can't really play either of those; I don't have a working Gameboy Advance or emulators.

Five missile red doors are a hold over from the original Metroid. I guess they assumed people would just know from having played that game. Alternatively it's just from the era where games came with manuals that people were expected to leaf through.

I get what you mean by cramped boss rooms, butbi actually like the section where you're forced to learn how to wall jump because, well, it forces you to learn how to wall jump. The wall jumping mechanics themselves could be smoother (and they are in following games...not sure why I plhralized it), but the notion of trapping you and forcing you to learn something is very good game design in my book as there's no better way to ensure a player learns how to do something. 

1 hour ago, vanguard333 said:

Ah; I see. I probably should've clarified that I finished Super Metroid (I got 75% on my first playthrough with extremely minimal use of a walkthrough, and given what I said about the red doors, you can probably guess what the walkthrough was for).

Hm... I liked exploring and getting lost, I liked Samus' arsenal of ranged weaponry (I generally prefer melee combat in video games, but with side-scrollers, I prefer ranged combat, probably because of Mega Man, but also because of how collision usually works in side-scrollers), it kind-of felt like playing through one giant Zelda Dungeon that had multiple items and bosses (but with platforming instead of puzzles), and I liked the backtracking. One thing I didn't like was being presented with several doors, all but one leading to side-content, and somehow picking the only door that's the way forward when I was wanting to find side-content. I really don't know if I think it will be worth it.

 

Ah; perfect timing. I'll try the demo then to see if I want the game.

Dread might be perfect fire you then, or maybe not. As you can see from the first page, a lot of us, veteran Metroid players, got lost in this game, because there tends to be only one path forward and if you're on that path great, but if you diverge from it then it'll be ages wandering around trying to find it again. As some else hinted earlier, the way to progress is always behind a set of barriers that require your newest item and can be found  ear the newest item you obtained. This is different to Super Metroid where the place you need to use an item could be on the complete other side of the world map.

Edited by Jotari
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10 hours ago, Jotari said:

Five missile red doors are a hold over from the original Metroid. I guess they assumed people would just know from having played that game. Alternatively it's just from the era where games came with manuals that people were expected to leaf through.

I get what you mean by cramped boss rooms, butbi actually like the section where you're forced to learn how to wall jump because, well, it forces you to learn how to wall jump. The wall jumping mechanics themselves could be smoother (and they are in following games...not sure why I plhralized it), but the notion of trapping you and forcing you to learn something is very good game design in my book as there's no better way to ensure a player learns how to do something. 

Dread might be perfect fire you then, or maybe not. As you can see from the first page, a lot of us, veteran Metroid players, got lost in this game, because there tends to be only one path forward and if you're on that path great, but if you diverge from it then it'll be ages wandering around trying to find it again. As some else hinted earlier, the way to progress is always behind a set of barriers that require your newest item and can be found  ear the newest item you obtained. This is different to Super Metroid where the place you need to use an item could be on the complete other side of the world map.

Yeah; I figured they were either a result of instruction manuals that no longer exist or being a hold over from a previous game.

Yeah; it wasn't so much the section in-of-itself so much as the strict timing for the wall-jumping (I eventually figured out a trick that enabled me to wall-jump semi-reliably) and the hallway just before the part where you have to wall jump; the one filled with spikes and endlessly-respawning enemies. I'm glad that spikes aren't an instant-kill (cough Mega Man and Shovel Knight cough), but they're still rather annoying; particularly in that section.

Hm... maybe. As I said, I'll probably try the demo.

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Well, I just tried the Metroid Dread demo. One thing I will point out right away is that, normally, demos that are the first portion of the game let you save your progress so that, if you decide to purchase the full game afterward, you don't have to start from scratch; you can continue from where you left off, but the Metroid Dread demo, despite being the first portion of the game, doesn't let you save. If you buy the full game, you have to start from scratch. I really do not understand why they did that.

Anyway, as for my first impressions of the game: it was interesting. I expected Samus to have a lot more mobility than she did in Super Metroid, both because it's been 27 years and because I've watched reviews of Metroid Dread, but it still caught me off-guard quite a bit. I suppose one thing is that I never played Samus Returns, so I'm not at all used to the melee counter. Even so, when I am able to pull off the melee counter, especially when I'm able to do so while moving, it is a lot of fun. Another thing that surprised me was the wall jump; it was far easier than in Super Metroid, to the point of feeling automatic. I expected it to be easier than in Super Metroid, but I wasn't expecting it to be this easy.

That said, there are a few things that feel a bit clunky to me: for example, shooting while moving is more awkward for me in this game than in Super Metroid, and I think it's because, in Super Metroid, you used L and R to change aiming direction and the d-pad to move, whereas in Super Metroid, you have to do all that on one control stick. It's not as easy for me to get used to it as it was for Super Metroid, and I'm someone who was not at all used to using the d-pad for movement until fairly recently. Granted, the game does provide 360 degree aiming by holding L, but it does mean coming to a halt as far as I can tell (someone correct me if I'm wrong). That actually would've been perfect in Super Metroid, where I was a lot more slow and methodical. Here though, I feel encouraged to try and maintain some momentum, so coming to a halt every now and then does feel a bit weird. This is admittedly just a minor issue.

In regards to the E.M.M.Is, I'm not normally a fan of this brand of stealth, especially since, in the first bit at least, it's not really stealth; it's running from the indestructible instant-kill monster, and I don't think I've ever liked that in a game. But it's honestly well-integrated and fairly fun. I like that it's clear which sections the E.M.M.Is reside within, so there's no reason to be surprised when one shows up.

Overall, it's a very interesting game. I might get the full version. But, if I do, I won't like having to retread the whole first section all over again.

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6 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Well, I just tried the Metroid Dread demo. One thing I will point out right away is that, normally, demos that are the first portion of the game let you save your progress so that, if you decide to purchase the full game afterward, you don't have to start from scratch; you can continue from where you left off, but the Metroid Dread demo, despite being the first portion of the game, doesn't let you save. If you buy the full game, you have to start from scratch. I really do not understand why they did that.

Anyway, as for my first impressions of the game: it was interesting. I expected Samus to have a lot more mobility than she did in Super Metroid, both because it's been 27 years and because I've watched reviews of Metroid Dread, but it still caught me off-guard quite a bit. I suppose one thing is that I never played Samus Returns, so I'm not at all used to the melee counter. Even so, when I am able to pull off the melee counter, especially when I'm able to do so while moving, it is a lot of fun. Another thing that surprised me was the wall jump; it was far easier than in Super Metroid, to the point of feeling automatic. I expected it to be easier than in Super Metroid, but I wasn't expecting it to be this easy.

That said, there are a few things that feel a bit clunky to me: for example, shooting while moving is more awkward for me in this game than in Super Metroid, and I think it's because, in Super Metroid, you used L and R to change aiming direction and the d-pad to move, whereas in Super Metroid, you have to do all that on one control stick. It's not as easy for me to get used to it as it was for Super Metroid, and I'm someone who was not at all used to using the d-pad for movement until fairly recently. Granted, the game does provide 360 degree aiming by holding L, but it does mean coming to a halt as far as I can tell (someone correct me if I'm wrong). That actually would've been perfect in Super Metroid, where I was a lot more slow and methodical. Here though, I feel encouraged to try and maintain some momentum, so coming to a halt every now and then does feel a bit weird. This is admittedly just a minor issue.

In regards to the E.M.M.Is, I'm not normally a fan of this brand of stealth, especially since, in the first bit at least, it's not really stealth; it's running from the indestructible instant-kill monster, and I don't think I've ever liked that in a game. But it's honestly well-integrated and fairly fun. I like that it's clear which sections the E.M.M.Is reside within, so there's no reason to be surprised when one shows up.

Overall, it's a very interesting game. I might get the full version. But, if I do, I won't like having to retread the whole first section all over again.

How far into the game does the demo go? There is an ability later than gives you invisibility, which makes the E.M.M.I sections more stealth like, though personally I find just running through the areas to be more effective than trying continue stealth.

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Oh yeah I completed the game a few days okay. Pretty alright. 

Raven Beak was surprisingly easy to handle. After a short break for RL reasons I only needed one training match against him to get back into the game before completely demolishing all three phases in the next round. He's probably my favorite Metroid villain yet which makes it a shame that he's kind of stuck as a one off villain in a ''filler'' story. 

Spoiler

Yeah I know he's technically responsible for all events in the series but only in an indirect manner. 

I think the Emmi's might not have achieved the feeling the game was ultimately aiming for. I never felt any dread when dealing with them. They feel more like a puzzle or minigame than a truly terrifying threat. I think this might have to do with how formulaic the whole bunch of them are. There's also not really any consequence for getting caught by them. The Emmi rooms you have to traverse are never very long and when they catch you they only send you back to the entrance of their rooms. And I'm really grateful for that, it be very frustrating if you lost a lot of progress anytime they caught you. But the silk gloves approach to the Emmi's does mean that ''dread'' was the absolute last thing I felt around them.

The game probably shines the brightest during boss fights. Its very Sekiro-ish in terms of pattern recognition but without getting absolutely crushed even if you have recognized the patterns like in sekiro. 

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On 11/3/2021 at 5:05 AM, Jotari said:

How far into the game does the demo go? There is an ability later than gives you invisibility, which makes the E.M.M.I sections more stealth like, though personally I find just running through the areas to be more effective than trying continue stealth.

It goes as far as shortly after you beat the first intact E.M.M.I and get the ability to stick to magnetized walls and ceilings. Once you go through a particular door that can only be opened by clinging to the magnetized wall in front of it and bringing down said magnetized wall, the demo ends.

 

EDIT: Well, I bought Metroid Dread. A lot of what I said about the demo stands (mainly because I'm not far past the demo's content; I just beat the scorpion monster that had the invisibility device).

One thing that I didn't consider too much but I've grown to far more strongly notice and dislike is the way in which the game railroads the player into going forward: if you want to backtrack after obtaining a new item to see if any of the collectibles you had to pass by can now be collected, the game will not let you; it will add new obstacles just to make it that you're stuck; unable to do anything except go forward. I just want to collect one missile tank near the starting area that can be accessed via the magnet upgrade, and yet, from the moment I got that magnet upgrade, the game has contrived its way into making impossible for me to go back including, from debris and lava-mushroom monsters suddenly appearing in hallways to doors becoming unusable for no reason except to make the player unable to go back. It is beyond infuriating.

 

EDIT: Well, I just completed Metroid Dread with 99% item completion. It would've been 100%, but there was this shinespark puzzle in Burenia that I just found to be impossible. Even after watching a video and figuring out how to do it, I just was not physically capable of doing it, no matter how many times I tried; I just didn't have the reflexes necessary. That to me is what separates challenge from difficulty: challenge is how much you have to figure out, and difficulty is how much you have to succeed in doing, and this particular shinespark puzzle was just too difficult for me.

The rest of the game, while presenting similar level of challenge, was far more manageable in terms of difficulty.

Edited by vanguard333
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