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Metorid Dread Discussion/Impression

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I was thinking of posting a in games I was playing, but I feel like I have too much to say about Metroid Dread after completing it, so this gets a new thread. I will avoid spoilers.

Metroid Dread was a solid game with a gameplay that flows a lot better, but it really does lack in a lot of other areas if a player wanted that "classic metroidvania" experience. If you have played Metroid: Samus Return, Mercury Steam first attempt at making a Metroid game, then Metroid Dread is better but still have a  lot that game's strength and weaknesses.

So let's go over some bullet points that I wanted to mention about this game:  

  • This game is more focus on action platforming, then exploration. Exploration is at times involved in this game, but more often then not, there is only one main path you should be taking and the game usually goes through great length to push you into that direction, which includes blocking off previous sections of the map.
  • The game's structure is very similar to that of Fusion or Metroid 2 with its linear progression & item collection. If you were hoping for a Zero Mission or Super Metroid experience, you will be disappointed. The game usually railroads you to the next objective/destination. After a few hours in, I realize it was kind of pointless to really explore paths that branched out of the main direction as the main path usually gives you enough to complete the challenge ahead. In additional, those items that required you to go divert yourself from the main path usually required upgrades I didn't have.
    • It is very easy to get stuck in this game. There is only one route you can take to advance your progression, and if you don't take it, you will be stuck. This happened to me on 3 separate occasion because after acquiring an upgrade, I simply overlooked or forgot about once specific location (usually nearby where I got my upgrade) that got me stuck wandering and back tracking for hours. And worst, the back tracking usually never got me anything. 
    • Backtracking is usually not rewarded. I learned this lesson quicker after my second time being stuck. Even with my new upgrades, most of the items I couldn't grab originally were still blocked off because I still needed later game upgrades. I eventually just gave up backtracking all together because it was a waste of time and because I was still getting a decent amount of items to complete the game. To note: when I say back track, I'm referring to the concept of going back to an area you have already explored on your own free will.  
      • Saying that, I got stuck a third time because the game decided that it was time for me to backtrack but I was refusing to backtrack, after being burned a lot for pointlessly backtracking. I was constantly trying to reach unexplored areas, bombing for any potential location that could advance me to the next location. Turns out, I have to exit the sector I was in and return to one I had previously explored to progress the story. That was a frustrating experience. Minor spoiler warning: Once you have the Space Jump, you need to go back to a previous sector.
  •  The game does feel a lot smoother controlling Samus. She feels great to control and I never felt like I was fighting against the controls to maneuver her across the map or fighting bosses. Using the melee counters feels great. It doesn't stop her movement, and most enemies can be taken with just by shooting at them. A lot of the new upgrades were also great to use with potential to be expanded upon in future series.
    • Flash Shift being a prime example. It's a dash, moving Samus to another spot, being used up to 3 times. Best of all, Flash Shift was what allowed me to use Free Aim so much doing boss fights, as Free Aim would prevent me from running or jumping, but I could Flash Shift to a new spot with a press of a button. It was fun pulling this off consistently. In addition, it help move through the map more quickly. Saying that, I was disappointed that this skill wasn't like a 'dash+dodge' maneuver and you can't use it to move through enemies or projectile. That is a huge miss opportunity.
  • I died so many times in the game, but I never felt mad. Thanks to the smooth control, I knew it was just because of my stupid self making bad decisions. Saying that, everything does so much damage to you, especially bosses. Tanking damage is a terrible idea in this game, which a lack of items also caused. Even so, I was able to beat the game rather easily and quickly.
  • Boss fights are tough and engaging. It's very possible to beat them with low item runs if you know how to avoid their attacks. I didn't go out of my ways to grab items, and after learning their pattern, it's possible to survive on skill alone.
    • Note: There aren't a lot of quick-time events in boss fights, but if you do manage to activate them, the game does require you to smash one of the attack buttons so that Samus will actually attack during those QTE. I actually like this feature.
  • Map design could use improvement. Often times, this game blocks paths that was previously open to the player and simply never reopen them. I wish by the end of the game, they would've allow the player to reopen them or create a new opening to reconnect those different parts together again. This would save a lot of backtracking make heading to a specific point in the map so much faster.
    • Side nitpick. It's annoying that many doors will close on you after you open them. It would've been nice if they remained open as long as you remain in the room that it connects to. It would've also been nice if some of the door convert to basic doors after you unlock them. It's a pace killer when you have to stop and spend 3 seconds to open a door again. 
  • OMG, the LOADING TIME!! I don't have the new model of the Switch. I mention this because, this game has around like 7 main sectors and moving between them sucks because the load time for me was like 20ish seconds to load. It really ruins the pace of the game, especially when you're backtracking to acquire all the items. This was also why I just completely stop backtracking until the end of the game. There are some parts of the sector that takes like 1 or 2 more seconds to load in. These aren't as bad, but are noticeable when you keep running through them multiple times.
  • The story is okay. A single play-though isn't that long. I beat the game within 10 hours and this includes be wasting like 5 hours being stuck and wandering the map on 3 separate occasions. It might be possible to beat this game within 2 hours if a player knew what they were doing. At least the game doesn't pull a fake-out with the end of the game, unlike Metorid: Samus Returns. This game has a hard mode once you complete the game once, but I haven't tried hard mode yet at the time of this writing.
  • Oh lastly, the visual are nice looking. If you care for visual and aesthetic, this game will deliver on that. Samus looks great. The enemy looks great, and the environment looks great.

Overall, I did actually enjoy the game for what it is. An action platformer. Saying that, this isn't a classic or a must buy. Mercury Steam is definitely getting better at designing the game, as I think this is much better than Metroid: Samus Returns. But this game still has areas it can improve on. And with games like Hallow Knight or even previous Metroid existing, it's easy to see how this game could've been better. 

Edited by Clear World

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I finished my first playthrough, and I think I'll need a second one before I can really decide how I feel about the experience overall. I love it, there's no doubt about that. Ever since I finished Samus Returns I've been convinced that these developers are the ones that can push this series forward and they have. If I talked about what I liked in the game, it would be a constant gush. 

But I can't deny that the game's level design has some unfortunate results for players who turn away from the obvious path forward. The moment to moment progression is get to new area > bumble your way to a new power > use it on the nearest obstacles that it was designed for > those obstacles serve as "bread crumbs" leading to a new area, or teleporter to a new room of a previous area > repeat. The problem comes when the player has identified the bread crumbs, but wants to go exploring in other directions. Since the game world is cut up into long "rail lines" that quickly disappear from your short term memory, you can find yourself in the wrong part of the game world in mere minutes, not sure where to go. 

  • My first piece of advice is to keep track of your last earned ability. If you've forgotten, press the Plus button and tap L to see your event log. Each breakable obstacle and each type of door is color coded and kept track of on your map, so you can glance at nearby rooms to see where you can go now. Stuff you can't interact with displays as ???.
    • That event log in the menu is going to help a bunch if you resort to using a walkthrough as well.
  • My second piece of advice is to notice that the game keep tracks of and grays out every item pickup - including the abilities themselves. Remember that room and look for the nearby bread crumbs. If you can get back there, you can start retracing your steps toward the correct direction.
    • Maybe also consider dropping a marker on those rooms if you think you're veering off the track. The game world is huge and cluttered with icons so leaving a bookmark like that can save your eyes some strain. Since this game's map is so meticulously detailed, I haven't found much use for the map markers beyond this.

There were ways that they could have aided the player once they've gotten stuck. For one thing, I think leaving the Aeon Pulse ability for the latter half of the game rather than right near the start was a huge misstep. Because even in the first hour, the player occasionally needs to blow apart an unmarked piece of wall or ceiling with shots just to progress. Even if the player doesn't use it often, it helps drill in the mentality that not every dead end is a dead end. One of the best inclusions to a Metroid game and they didn't implement it perfectly.

Furthermore, they brought back Nav stations to deliver some dialogue from Adam. But after you've talked to him, all they do is save your game. It would be cool if the player could activate the nav station again to perhaps have the game plunk a marker on the next point of progression. It's not like pointing out where to go is Taboo in Metroid. Fusion has near constant waypoints. Other M makes it painfully obvious where to go at all times and I know that the developers played it because there are so many shared ideas with that game. The Prime games will eventually put a waypoint on your map if you've been playing the game for a long time without any progress. And Metroid Dread has...nothing? I'm hoping they can patch in something like this in the future. They wouldn't even have to write any new dialogue for Adam. When I saw them bringing back Nav Stations I thought for sure this would be their purpose beyond story dialogue, so them doing nothing was quite the negative surprise.

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7 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

those obstacles serve as "bread crumbs" leading to a new area, or teleporter to a new room of a previous area > repeat.

That's a pretty perfect way to put it. I got lost for a few minutes early in the game when I didn't know this, but once I realized that I never got lost, because even when the game guided me to a previous area, I just looked at the map and there would always be a nearby spot where I could use my most recent power-up, and that would be the way forward.

Apparently there are actually some intended (and some probably not intended) sequence breaks, but they seem too abstract for most new players to find. It's a little disappointing, but I guess with this basically being the series' revival they didn't want to lose players who get frustrated at finding themselves getting lost. And/or maybe I've just been spoiled by non-linear gems like Hollow Knight and Rabi-Ribi.

I definitely liked the game, but I'm not really sure what specifically to say about it. It's just...a Metroid game. My first run time was 6:59:11. I've gone back and gotten 100% on that file and plan to play hard mode and unlock everything in the gallery.

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10 hours ago, Florete said:

That's a pretty perfect way to put it. I got lost for a few minutes early in the game when I didn't know this, but once I realized that I never got lost, because even when the game guided me to a previous area, I just looked at the map and there would always be a nearby spot where I could use my most recent power-up, and that would be the way forward.

I must confess that even after recognizing the pattern myself I got pretty hopelessly lost very late in the game where I had most abilities. It was after getting the final suit. Somehow I just took the wrong teleporter and had to spend a lot of time figuring out how to reach that room again from where I was. I remember having to re-enter that area from multiple entry points just to figure out the right answer.

10 hours ago, Florete said:

Apparently there are actually some intended (and some probably not intended) sequence breaks, but they seem too abstract for most new players to find.

I actually managed to pick up a power bomb expansion many hours before you get power bombs normally. You're supposed to use a new bomb related ability gotten much later, but I finagled my way over using aeon shift over the pitfall blocks. The game tells you you can't use this yet, but it was still acquired and sitting there as a ??? in my status screen. If I can do it on my first casual playthrough, I'm sure speed runners will find some goofy stuff.

Somehow I get the feeling there's going to be a lot of potential for sequence breaking in this game, but a lot of it won't be viable for speedrunning when the main story path is already so efficient at getting you where you need to go. Maybe the 100% run will get creative in acquiring items more efficiently with those techs in order to cut down on backtracking. In my experience glitch hunting, a lot of times we would find something new that just isn't relevant unless more things are discovered that may change the route. Being able to get something like Space Jump or speed booster early would be the holy grail though. And it's hard to say if this is one of those games where getting a beam upgrade retroactively gives you previous beam upgrades

Edited by Zapp Branniglenn

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Metroid Dread should be an interesting experience. Its the end of the Metroid saga and I've actually never played a mainline Metroid game before. And while I hold the prime series in high regard I never finished any of em. Or got particularly far. 

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1 hour ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

The game tells you you can't use this yet, but it was still acquired and sitting there as a ??? in my status screen. If I can do it on my first casual playthrough, I'm sure speed runners will find some goofy stuff.

Oh, that's what those were. I actually got two ??? items and never figured out what they were, but that makes sense.

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Okay, I have completed this game 3 more times since my initial post, one being a speedy low item run on hard (only grabbing nearby items along the main path and not bothering with those that required more 'tricky' maneuver that may require multiple attempts), and another where I was intentionally sequence breaking (when both knew how and could pull it off myself) and grabbing all the items I could grab before each boss.

On 10/10/2021 at 2:09 PM, Zapp Branniglenn said:

I must confess that even after recognizing the pattern myself I got pretty hopelessly lost very late in the game where I had most abilities. It was after getting the final suit. Somehow I just took the wrong teleporter and had to spend a lot of time figuring out how to reach that room again from where I was. I remember having to re-enter that area from multiple entry points just to figure out the right answer.

I actually managed to pick up a power bomb expansion many hours before you get power bombs normally. You're supposed to use a new bomb related ability gotten much later, but I finagled my way over using aeon shift over the pitfall blocks. The game tells you you can't use this yet, but it was still acquired and sitting there as a ??? in my status screen. If I can do it on my first casual playthrough, I'm sure speed runners will find some goofy stuff.

Somehow I get the feeling there's going to be a lot of potential for sequence breaking in this game, but a lot of it won't be viable for speedrunning when the main story path is already so efficient at getting you where you need to go. Maybe the 100% run will get creative in acquiring items more efficiently with those techs in order to cut down on backtracking. In my experience glitch hunting, a lot of times we would find something new that just isn't relevant unless more things are discovered that may change the route. Being able to get something like Space Jump or speed booster early would be the holy grail though. And it's hard to say if this is one of those games where getting a beam upgrade retroactively gives you previous beam upgrades

I wouldn't consider power bomb expansion sequence breaking since a decent amount of them are pretty easy to get once you know their location. They don't require any fancy trick. I was able to get around like 8-9 of them before acquiring the power bomb itself. 

I doubt the main story path is 'efficient', as I already seen a few speedrunner skip a few bosses in the game while acquiring upgrade in different order, even skipping the space jump completely. I'm sure people will find more sequence breaks and a faster way to complete the game. They already beat the game under 2 hours. I can easily see them getting under 1:30 if they figure a way to get the screw attack earlier.

I really did enjoy my 4 runs of Metorid Dread, and I think I undersold it in my initial post. I think it's a solid game that people could  easily find enjoyment in, but I do have problems with it and I think it's hard for me to convince someone to purchase this game at full price. For me, I kind of want more content and better incentive to explore the map. Saying that, if I could ask for the Devs to change/add to this game, it would be the following:

  • Add optional late-game bosses who are extremely tough and hidden - I think this would be a great additional to the game, as this would give reason to re-explore previous areas while at the same time, give a good reason to collect everything. Well design optional bosses can be designed as if the devs assume the player has collected everything, and expand on the general focus of action. Lastly, the game already has an in-story reason where these bosses could be coming from and why they are optional.
  • Either reopen pathways that were blocked at some point, or more likely, add destructive blocks that requires a late game upgrade to get around them (most likely power bomb) to get around those now closed pathways. This would improve back-tracking and mobility across the map.
    • These suggestions could be done in DLC, and these two suggestions wouldn't hamper speedrunners
Edited by Clear World

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7 minutes ago, Clear World said:

I doubt the main story path is 'efficient', as I already seen a few speedrunner skip a few bosses in the game while acquiring upgrade in different order, even skipping the space jump completely. I'm sure people will find more sequence breaks and a faster way to complete the game. They already beat the game under 2 hours. I can easily see them getting under 1:30 if they figure a way to get the screw attack earlier.

Yeah, the skips are appearing in my youtube recommended without me having to even search for it. I'll take a look at what's been found out after playthrough #2 is finished (I'm going for Hard mode 100%). From what I can gleam at this point it seems to be a pretty fine blend of intended and unintended sequence breaking. That's great. You don't often see that in games that aren't called Super Metroid.

Two hours is still pretty long by the standards of a metroid speedrun though haha. The only ones that go on that long are Prime 3 and Other M, and in the latter game's case I can tell you from experience it's because the developers of that game meticulously closed any window for skips we could think of. bumps in the road to prevent speed boosting, solid walls and ceilings to prevent Out of Bounds clipping,  limiting your infinite bomb jumping to Samus' standard jump height, even invisible walls to catch your shinespark over a gap. There's only a few things in that game that you could call a "skip" and it's usually skipping 5-50 second portions of a room, not entire rooms. Most of the genuine glitches in that game are combat-related.

I'm glad to hear you came around on the game after more playthroughs. And I do hope they'll consider some free DLC updates. Samus Returns didn't get anything like that, but I figure that's just because it was one of the last 3DS games published by Nintendo, so there wasn't much use sticking around on that project when the switch was already released.

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18 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

I'm glad to hear you came around on the game after more playthroughs. And I do hope they'll consider some free DLC updates. Samus Returns didn't get anything like that, but I figure that's just because it was one of the last 3DS games published by Nintendo, so there wasn't much use sticking around on that project when the switch was already released.

I was never against the game. My general view of the game is somewhat the same when I wrote my initial post. The only thing I would retract would be that you can actually collect most items in the game well before the second half of the world opens up. Beyond that, if I was to give it a rating, it would be somewhere at a 7.5 out of 10, though cost plays a huge factor to my rating. If the game was like 25ish dollars, I would easily bump it up to a 9 out of 10. I wish there were more to do because I'm not really a speedrunner, so I'm left with a game that I somewhat feel isn't worth its price tag.

In addition, I kind of want to mention, I found the main big bad motivation to be... disappointing. It's my fault as I was really hoping for something more 'intelligent' and bittersweet to make a more fitting send off for this supposed final chapter of this saga. It's serviceable, but I wanted more. 

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My opinions first and then I'll read everyone else's and probably edit in a bunch of quotations into this. I think this might be the weakest title in the series (taking the two remakes to displace the really clunky older games). It really lacks a sense of atmosphere the others have. The environments just don't pop out to me. Even the names are difficult to remember. That's a pretty big let down as environmental story telling is one of the Metroid series excels at most. In addition the map design felt far more maze like than normal. I kept on getting lost a bunch of times without any idea where to go next. I feel it lacked a sense of purpose in it's story. Metroid Fusion obviously has the biggest sense of purpose in its game design as the plot literally tells you where to go next, but the other games do to some extent too. Metroid II has you killing Metroids, so every time you take one down you feel like you're getting somewhere. Zero Mission is a pretty short game even with the back section, but you still get that sense of purpose and progression by killing Ridley and Kraid (even their areas being named Ridley and Kraid help you feel like you're getting somwhere). Super Metroid also has the kill boss goal, but it takes its progression a lot more from it's environment. You encounter the places you need to go early on and know which items you need to get to. Especially and Norfair. First you see a big scaly Ridley looking face that seems important, but it's covered in lava so you need the Gravity Suit. When you finally get the Gravity Suit you still can't reach it, so you need the Space Jump. When you get into Norfair Depths you can't progress in one direction until you get the Screw Attack, so you know that's what you need next. I didn't feel like the environment was telling the same kind of story here. When I got a new item there was like a single nearby door to use it on and then I was stuck wandering around the entire map trying to find a nook or cranny I missed with my new item. The bit after getting the Space Jump as by far the most frustrating. Half my run time must have been spent looking for where to go next after that (I ended up finishing the game with 10 hours and 2 minutes, which is pretty lengthy a clear time for a Metroid game).

Maybe I'd been playing for too long at the time, but the final boss was absolutely brutal. Took me ages to finish him off. This is generally a good thing. None of the attacks felt altogether unfair or unavoidable, they just hit like a truck and required some deft reflexes to handle. By the time I finally managed to beat him I'd basically become a master of the fight. Still I fear how difficult it'll be in a low % run.

By far the best thing was to finally get some new items to play with. The dodge dash thing is really fun to use and a great mechanic for boss fights. Much better than Return of Samus's slow down time affect. I also really like the cross bombs. You wouldn't think something like that would make much of a difference, but it really does. I hope they become a staple. Especially because, while utilized well, I also feel they were a bit wasted by being obtained so late into the game. I blame the  new slide mechanic which pushed the morph ball as a later obtained item which in turn made the bombs something you don't get until almost mid game. That being said the slide itself was a great new mechanic, it was interesting navigating areas without morphball usage and even after getting the morphball the slide still managed to be useful as a movement options in fights and just generally when running around.

I got 100% without too much difficulty. Some of the shinespark puzzles require really precise timing but largely things weren't too hard to find. I'm now trying to do a speedrun to get a better ending screen than that awful 10 hour record. After that I'll try out hard mode.

So to sum up, worst Metroid game ever. But still fucking Metroid so I absolutely adore it. Let's hope it doesn't take them another four years to make the next one.

On 10/10/2021 at 10:09 PM, Zapp Branniglenn said:

I must confess that even after recognizing the pattern myself I got pretty hopelessly lost very late in the game where I had most abilities. It was after getting the final suit. Somehow I just took the wrong teleporter and had to spend a lot of time figuring out how to reach that room again from where I was. I remember having to re-enter that area from multiple entry points just to figure out the right answer.

I actually managed to pick up a power bomb expansion many hours before you get power bombs normally. You're supposed to use a new bomb related ability gotten much later, but I finagled my way over using aeon shift over the pitfall blocks. The game tells you you can't use this yet, but it was still acquired and sitting there as a ??? in my status screen. If I can do it on my first casual playthrough, I'm sure speed runners will find some goofy stuff.

Somehow I get the feeling there's going to be a lot of potential for sequence breaking in this game, but a lot of it won't be viable for speedrunning when the main story path is already so efficient at getting you where you need to go. Maybe the 100% run will get creative in acquiring items more efficiently with those techs in order to cut down on backtracking. In my experience glitch hunting, a lot of times we would find something new that just isn't relevant unless more things are discovered that may change the route. Being able to get something like Space Jump or speed booster early would be the holy grail though. And it's hard to say if this is one of those games where getting a beam upgrade retroactively gives you previous beam upgrades

I did so much fruitless wandering around, I'm pretty sure I had three power bomb tanks before I actually got the power bombs. On the subject of power bombs, they didn't feel all that useful. The required charge time for them didn't feel like it justified how effective they were, especially as you get them so late that you can just screw attack most things to death around the same time. I mainly used them when trying to get 100% by blowing everything up because it's inconvenient to move while charging the Aeon Pulse.

 

On 10/12/2021 at 8:32 AM, Clear World said:

 

I really did enjoy my 4 runs of Metorid Dread, and I think I undersold it in my initial post. I think it's a solid game that people could  easily find enjoyment in, but I do have problems with it and I think it's hard for me to convince someone to purchase this game at full price. For me, I kind of want more content and better incentive to explore the map. Saying that, if I could ask for the Devs to change/add to this game, it would be the following:

 

This kind of sums it up for me. I really like the game, but that's because I just really like Metroid. If someone who isn't already a big fan of the series showed interest in it I'd probably just tell them to play Fusion or Super Metroid instead.

On 10/12/2021 at 9:31 AM, Clear World said:

I was never against the game. My general view of the game is somewhat the same when I wrote my initial post. The only thing I would retract would be that you can actually collect most items in the game well before the second half of the world opens up. Beyond that, if I was to give it a rating, it would be somewhere at a 7.5 out of 10, though cost plays a huge factor to my rating. If the game was like 25ish dollars, I would easily bump it up to a 9 out of 10. I wish there were more to do because I'm not really a speedrunner, so I'm left with a game that I somewhat feel isn't worth its price tag.

In addition, I kind of want to mention, I found the main big bad motivation to be... disappointing. It's my fault as I was really hoping for something more 'intelligent' and bittersweet to make a more fitting send off for this supposed final chapter of this saga. It's serviceable, but I wanted more. 

Well at least it means we have another Metroid character that would be rather easy to implemented into Smash. Though  I don't think he has the charisma to gain much of a following for that.

Edited by Jotari

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1 hour ago, Jotari said:

I did so much fruitless wandering around, I'm pretty sure I had three power bomb tanks before I actually got the power bombs. On the subject of power bombs, they didn't feel all that useful. The required charge time for them didn't feel like it justified how effective they were, especially as you get them so late that you can just screw attack most things to death around the same time. I mainly used them when trying to get 100% by blowing everything up because it's inconvenient to move while charging the Aeon Pulse.

Did you try them out during

Spoiler

the final boss? Because for me that was a huge lightbulb moment when I was able to remove his miniature sun at the top of the room and focus on dodging his attacks. And the lengthy charge time suddenly makes sense in a fight like this, since he can move and attack independently of his various orbs. 

In fact I love how that fight incorporates pretty much all of your abilities. There's several moves you have to stop attacking and space jump over,others you can slide/morph ball under, there's his dash punch which you can parry(not the same as his "come here" gesture, where he baits you for an attack you need to dash parry into the cinematic fight sequence). You want to light him up with five seeker missile locks for maximum damage, but he's so aggressive that it's hard to find time to aim at him in between dodges (and of course getting hit by anything removes your locks, so if you're not confident in seeker missiles, go with regular ice missiles). I remember getting to his final phase for the first time and actually ran out of missiles. When has that ever happened late-game in Metroid besides the player coming into a fight not fully stocked on ammo?

 

Quote

The environments just don't pop out to me. Even the names are difficult to remember. That's a pretty big let down as environmental story telling is one of the Metroid series excels at most. In addition the map design felt far more maze like than normal. I kept on getting lost a bunch of times without any idea where to go next. I feel it lacked a sense of purpose in it's story.

The names may be difficult to remember, but I'd rather have that than "Sector 1, Sector 2" etc. The zones of Zebes may be easier to remember since there's more than one game that takes place on that planet. Can you remember the area names of Prime 2 or the planets of Prime 3? I can't and I replayed both of those in the last 3-4 years. Prime 1 is kind of like Metroid and super Metroid where the area names are the same as the catchy song titles. Your probably know that it's called Phendrana Drifts more from looking up or hearing about its theme song than you do from the map screen.

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the bosses/mini bosses stalking you in the background? Right at the start of the game watching that deer-like thing getting chomped by something invisible, that is instantly iconic. You can also see his tail retreating into gaps in hallways near his fight. Indicating that he is watching you and probably looking for the right room to ambush you, since he probably doesn't want to attempt crossing either of the EMMI Zones. Maybe he'll pick the one room that has a single exit, and also happens to be the same room where he acquired his stealth ability? I only noticed on playthrough 2, but all the aeon abilities are being held by a giant Chozo statue with one hand out instead of the usual design, and that's the same statue you use to kill him. Chozo soldiers similarly are seen hopping around before the room you fight them. Small Chozo statues fall apart in Ferenia, indicating the passage of time, but perhaps also symbolically showing that while the Chozo aren't extinct, they clearly don't have much time left now that the X are preying on everything. And there's that big monster corpse being experimented on that eventually disappears in the latter half of the game, before you fight the X copy of him in Cataris. Seeing a big monster corpse disappear from a room you passed several times, is already startling, but Fusion players (or just players paying attention to every detail of the game's opening) will know that the X inhabit dead creatures as easily as living ones. Plus you have the same depression halfway through the game of seeing that the X are taking everything over faster than you can stop them - just like in Fusion. And that makes your mission all the more consequential now that you know the X really are here.

I recently learned there are these ceiling goobers firing lasers at you, but you can grapple beam off their shell casing. How did I know to do that? There's a faint blue light coming off them before they fire - just like everything else that's blue you shoot your grapple beam at. The color coding in this game is on point. 

 

Edited by Zapp Branniglenn

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1 minute ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Did you try them out during

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the final boss? Because for me that was a huge lightbulb moment when I was able to remove his miniature sun at the top of the room and focus on dodging his attacks. And the lengthy charge time suddenly makes sense in a fight like this, since he can move and attack independently of his various orbs. 

In fact I love how that fight incorporates pretty much all of your abilities. There's several moves you have to stop attacking and space jump over,others you can slide/morph ball under, there's his dash punch which you can parry(not the same as his "come here" gesture, where he baits you for an attack you need to dash parry into the cinematic fight sequence). You want to light him up with five seeker missile locks for maximum damage, but he's so aggressive that it's hard to find time to aim at him in between dodges (and of course getting hit by anything removes your locks, so if you're not confident in seeker missiles, go with regular ice missiles). I remember getting to his final phase for the first time and actually ran out of missiles. When has that ever happened late-game in Metroid besides the player coming into a fight not fully stocked on ammo?

Yeah I did use them during the final boss fight, but I didn't find them particularly useful. The charge time means I'm not attacking. I found the Missile Storm to be a better way of dealing with that attack as I was relying on it so much to do damage I already had it charged so targeting the attack was much quicker.

Ah wait, I think you mean in the third phase. No, I didn't think to use it for the third phase. Though the charge time again is lengthy and he combos that with a massive attack that I reckon you'd want to be charging the super bomb when you first notice he's doing the attack to get away with it safely.

1 minute ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

The names may be difficult to remember, but I'd rather have that than "Sector 1, Sector 2" etc. The zones of Zebes may be easier to remember since there's more than one game that takes place on that planet. 

Wait you didn't like

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the bosses/mini bosses stalking you in the background? Right at the start of the game watching that deer-like thing getting chomped by something invisible, that is instantly iconic. You can also see his tail retreating into gaps in hallways near his fight. Indicating that he is watching you and probably looking for the right room to ambush you, since he probably doesn't want to attempt crossing either of the EMMI Zones. Maybe he'll pick the one room that has a single exit, and also happens to be the same room where he acquired his stealth ability? I only noticed on playthrough 2, but all the aeon abilities are being held by a giant Chozo statue with one hand out instead of the usual design, and that's the same statue you use to kill him. Chozo soldiers similarly are seen hopping around before the room you fight them. Small Chozo statues fall apart in Ferenia, indicating the passage of time, but perhaps also symbolically showing that while the Chozo aren't extinct, they clearly don't have much time left now that the X are preying on everything. And there's that big monster corpse being experimented on that eventually disappears in the latter half of the game, before you fight the X copy of him in Cataris. Seeing a big monster corpse disappear from a room you passed several times, is already startling, but Fusion players (or just players paying attention to every detail of the game's opening) will know that the X inhabit dead creatures as easily as living ones. Plus you have the same depression halfway through the game of seeing that the X are taking everything over faster than you can stop them - just like in Fusion. And that makes your mission all the more consequential now that you know the X really are here.

I recently learned there are these ceiling goobers firing lasers at you, but you can grapple beam off their shell casing. How did I know to do that? There's a faint blue light coming off them before they fire - just like everything else that's blue you shoot your grapple beam at. The color coding in this game is on point. 

 

There's small stuff here and there, but on the whole the world feels a lot more boring and less distinct. Like aside from being unable to name the areas, I can't even tell identifying features of them. I guess one is a lava place and one is a water place sort of, but even the Sectors of Zebes seemed like they were places with functions and purpose in the remake. Aside from the world feeling boring, I think my biggest issue is that the game just lacks focus with its plot. Samus's goal is just "escape". And that's obviously something you're not going to get to do until the end of the game. Adam is there but he usually has absolutely nothing of use to say. It's just "Great job you got an ability...keep it up." He's entirely lacking in personality and brings very little to the table

Spoiler

By the by was the Chozo villain impersonating Adam throughout the game or just in that final scene? The continue to obey me line kind of suggests we never saw Adam outside of the opening and that he was manipulating Samus all along, only, he kind of wasn't? Adam, from what little he did say, had genuine intelligent advice for Samus and it's not like Samus was ever really tricked into doing anything by Adam. On the other other hand, Adam saying "Any objections, lady" in the opening and the opening alone makes me think that's the only scene with him, but I think he only ever actually says that once in Metroid Fusion too. Either way I definitely feel there could have been some follow up on that point when Samus finally gets back to her ship. Instead the final scene is with an X copy of the good Chozo guy who is still good despite being an X and despite reactivating the EMMIs? And he somehow heals Samus of her Metroid mutation. Is any of that meant to make sense? It goes so far into weird decision territory it side steps outright being bad and just comes across as odd.

 

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@Jotari

Spoiler

I'm pretty sure the final boss was impersonating Adam throughout the game for many of the reasons you listed already. In additional, it would be pretty dumb of him if he allowed Samus to still have a connection to Adam after their first encounter. Which leads me to my hope of a more 'interesting' twist with the final boss. Many of Adam's conversation kept on building Raven Break and inferring details about him that kept making me question why it was being added in the conversation. It reached to a point for me that I was hoping all of this 'excesses' information being sprew about him was meant to be a misdirection into thinking he was evil. Like for example, maybe he wanted Samus to kill him because he was infected with an X-parasite, but though Chozo DNA, technology and will-power, managed to retain his existence. I hoped too much, and he was just evil and just hyping himself throughout the story.

His plan also has a glaring weakness as well. If your plan is to continually make your opponent stronger and into a weapon of mass destruction, maybe, at the minimum have a plan to subdue your foe other than brute force. He comes from an intelligent race that traveled across the galaxy, could he not think of anything but beat up the foe you internally kept making stronger? I mean like, he seems vulnerable to the X so what's his plan to deal with them as they overall the planet? Just blow up the planet and travel on his one ship?

Lastly, supposedly, I think the endings has something to do with the Choozo DNA keeping the Metroid DNA from over taking Samus... even though it's coming from a X-parasite? It's the only thing that make sense as the game brings up the topic during the middle of the game. I'm sure someone could make an excuse, but it is really just... weird.

Also, I don't think the naming of location is that much of an issues. The names aren't that important, and most likely, they tend to stick when you hear it in conversations outside of playing the game. I personally don't know the name of most of Metroid's location and only recall Norfair because I hear that word often when people talk about Super Metroid. 

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Ah wait, I think you mean in the third phase. No, I didn't think to use it for the third phase. Though the charge time again is lengthy and he combos that with a massive attack that I reckon you'd want to be charging the super bomb when you first notice he's doing the attack to get away with it safely.

The game gives the player more than enough time to use it safety during that lightbulb moment. The boss doesn't do much upon launching it and waiting for the first round of waves to come from the lightbulb.

I don't have too much of an issue on how Powerbombs are deployed with it's charged up time. Most games never really have the Super Bomb that useful for battle, other than clearing the map of the weaker enemies. I mainly have an issue with how late it come within the game

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

Well at least it means we have another Metroid character that would be rather easy to implemented into Smash. Though  I don't think he has the charisma to gain much of a following for that.

I'm actually kind of annoyed that in the images you unlocked with Samus & much of her cast, he's drawn as if he's this imposing and overarching villain to the series.

Edited by Clear World

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@Jotari @Clear World

Spoiler

The game itself states how the Thoha could control the Metroids. The X do contain the DNA of the stuff they consume, so the idea here is that by injecting a new influx of Thoha DNA into Samus, the Metroid DNA got suppressed, or controlled perhaps. The question is now... why did the X did it? Does the Chozo have something unique to them when it comes to being taken over by the X? With Quiet Robe it did seemed to be the case, so at least when it comes to the Thoha it's a most likely maybe. Can't say about the Mawkin-X that show up in-game, and it's not like we saw enough of RB-X to say for sure with him.

 

Edited by Acacia Sgt

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3 hours ago, Jotari said:

 

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By the by was the Chozo villain impersonating Adam throughout the game or just in that final scene? The continue to obey me line kind of suggests we never saw Adam outside of the opening and that he was manipulating Samus all along, only, he kind of wasn't? Adam, from what little he did say, had genuine intelligent advice for Samus and it's not like Samus was ever really tricked into doing anything by Adam. On the other other hand, Adam saying "Any objections, lady" in the opening and the opening alone makes me think that's the only scene with him, but I think he only ever actually says that once in Metroid Fusion too. Either way I definitely feel there could have been some follow up on that point when Samus finally gets back to her ship. Instead the final scene is with an X copy of the good Chozo guy who is still good despite being an X and despite reactivating the EMMIs? And he somehow heals Samus of her Metroid mutation. Is any of that meant to make sense? It goes so far into weird decision territory it side steps outright being bad and just comes across as odd.

 

 

Spoiler

The entire game, I suspect.  Since you only make contact with "Adam" after Samus wakes up alone at the bottom of this planet. There's even a brief scene before the final area where it's revealed that Raven beak has a room of monitors showing him all of Samus' activities. So it's not like he was guessing her current situation. Raven beak would have been impersonating him the entire time, guiding her in the precise direction of powerups and powerful enemies that would awaken her Metroid killer instinct, and repeatedly telling her she's too helpless to survive without these powerups. He says that he's guiding you to the ship, but in reality it was all detours and the path back there was carefully cut off from any angle. Quiet Robe was also probably going to be a key element of the misdirection, until he came close to divulging everything to Samus. So Raven Beak kept a Chozo assassin nearby. The distinct lack of Adam's catchphrase "any objections lady?" is also pretty damning, since he would normally say that with any new mission directive. The only times Adam speaks are inside of Samus' ship (he's her ship's AI). So the opening cutscene, and the final cutscene when he warns her not to touch the ship controls.

I'll admit the ending with the Metroid DNA getting counteracted did strike me as too neat and tidy, especially with the standoff between Samus and the X where neither of them can theoretically leave the planet. But @Acacia Sgt already beat me to the in-universe explanation. X parasites are just globs of copied DNA that Samus consumes and selectively adapts. It's hard to say why the X would help her though. Sure, Samus' ship is the only way they're getting off this planet. But they can't make new copies after being consumed. Maybe this is just a desperate grasp at evolution? Maybe they think Samus will one day have kids and that's how they'll live on? I hope it has ramifications in some way for the sequel. Raven Beak was correct, Samus being the last living Metroid and last living X parasite makes her probably the greatest threat to the galactic safety. Even with how many times she's saved the galaxy, can she be sure she'll never become that ultimate predator against her will? Alternatively, all anybody needs is to trick or force her into a place where that DNA can be extracted, and suddenly the threat of Metroids of X could be revived. Can the Galactic Federation ever trust her? Fusion ends with her disobeying them and blowing up an entire planet. The plot of Metroid Dread that I always envisioned in my head would have been one where Samus was on the run from the Federation because of the biological and political threat she posed after Fusion. There's still opportunity to write that game.

 

2 hours ago, Clear World said:

 

I don't have too much of an issue on how Powerbombs are deployed with it's charged up time. Most games never really have the Super Bomb that useful for battle, other than clearing the map of the weaker enemies. I mainly have an issue with how late it come within the game

Come to think of it, when have Power Bombs ever been incorporated into Metroid boss fights? The bosses tend to be immune to it. I guess if there are a lot of projectiles on screen you can clear them out with a pre-emptive power bomb. I feel like Other M was the only time it was not only required for some fights but consistently proving its usefulness for battle, to the point where they had to put a cooldown on it.

Edited by Zapp Branniglenn

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4 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Can you remember the area names of Prime 2

Not the person you were asking, but: Agon Wastes, Torvus Bog, Sanctuary Fortress. Yes, that was from memory. What was nice about the Prime game names was that they actually told you something about the area, which made them more memorable. "Norfair" means nothing on its own, but "Torvus Bog" tells you it's a bog.

58 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Come to think of it, when have Power Bombs ever been incorporated into Metroid boss fights? The bosses tend to be immune to it. I guess if there are a lot of projectiles on screen you can clear them out with a pre-emptive power bomb. I feel like Other M was the only time it was not only required for some fights but consistently proving its usefulness for battle, to the point where they had to put a cooldown on it.

Both versions of Metroid 2 have uses for power bombs against the Metroid Queen, and a few fights in the Prime games also have uses for them (Omega Pirate and Emperor Ing at least).

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8 hours ago, Clear World said:

@Jotari

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I'm pretty sure the final boss was impersonating Adam throughout the game for many of the reasons you listed already. In additional, it would be pretty dumb of him if he allowed Samus to still have a connection to Adam after their first encounter. Which leads me to my hope of a more 'interesting' twist with the final boss. Many of Adam's conversation kept on building Raven Break and inferring details about him that kept making me question why it was being added in the conversation. It reached to a point for me that I was hoping all of this 'excesses' information being sprew about him was meant to be a misdirection into thinking he was evil. Like for example, maybe he wanted Samus to kill him because he was infected with an X-parasite, but though Chozo DNA, technology and will-power, managed to retain his existence. I hoped too much, and he was just evil and just hyping himself throughout the story.

His plan also has a glaring weakness as well. If your plan is to continually make your opponent stronger and into a weapon of mass destruction, maybe, at the minimum have a plan to subdue your foe other than brute force. He comes from an intelligent race that traveled across the galaxy, could he not think of anything but beat up the foe you internally kept making stronger? I mean like, he seems vulnerable to the X so what's his plan to deal with them as they overall the planet? Just blow up the planet and travel on his one ship?

Lastly, supposedly, I think the endings has something to do with the Choozo DNA keeping the Metroid DNA from over taking Samus... even though it's coming from a X-parasite? It's the only thing that make sense as the game brings up the topic during the middle of the game. I'm sure someone could make an excuse, but it is really just... weird.

 

Spoiler

That's why I question whether it was Adam all along or not. He never uses the fact that he's feeding Samus Intel to do anything. Everything Adam says is pretty genuine. Samus isn't tricked or mislead at all. It feels ljke Samus would have do e all the same things even if Adam wasnt there. Maybe he directed her to go to the X area and unleash them on the planet, that's the only thing Samus really does in the story, but that makes way more sense if it's an accident as Raven Beak has no protection against the X.

To be fair to his plan it seems he was able to actually beat Samus in the end. It was just her metroid powers being op that he couldn't account for. Though it seems that exact Metroid power manifesting is why he kept her alive...well probably. Adam brings up the question of why he spared her on their first encounter but the game doesn't actually address it. He says he wants to clone and army of Samuses, but that should be just as possible by getting her DNA regardless as to how far along the transformation is.

7 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

 

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Quote

Also, I don't think the naming of location is that much of an issues. The names aren't that important, and most likely, they tend to stick when you hear it in conversations outside of playing the game. I personally don't know the name of most of Metroid's location and only recall Norfair because I hear that word often when people talk about Super Metroid. 

I think it's less that the names are bad on any inherent level, and more just that the areas don't pop out as distinct and memorable.

7 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

@Jotari @Clear World

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The game itself states how the Thoha could control the Metroids. The X do contain the DNA of the stuff they consume, so the idea here is that by injecting a new influx of Thoha DNA into Samus, the Metroid DNA got suppressed, or controlled perhaps. The question is now... why did the X did it? Does the Chozo have something unique to them when it comes to being taken over by the X? With Quiet Robe it did seemed to be the case, so at least when it comes to the Thoha it's a most likely maybe. Can't say about the Mawkin-X that show up in-game, and it's not like we saw enough of RB-X to say for sure with him.

 

Spoiler

If Chozo can resist X infection, then why did Quiet Robe reactivate the EMMIes?

 

6 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

 

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The entire game, I suspect.  Since you only make contact with "Adam" after Samus wakes up alone at the bottom of this planet. There's even a brief scene before the final area where it's revealed that Raven beak has a room of monitors showing him all of Samus' activities. So it's not like he was guessing her current situation. Raven beak would have been impersonating him the entire time, guiding her in the precise direction of powerups and powerful enemies that would awaken her Metroid killer instinct, and repeatedly telling her she's too helpless to survive without these powerups. He says that he's guiding you to the ship, but in reality it was all detours and the path back there was carefully cut off from any angle. Quiet Robe was also probably going to be a key element of the misdirection, until he came close to divulging everything to Samus. So Raven Beak kept a Chozo assassin nearby. The distinct lack of Adam's catchphrase "any objections lady?" is also pretty damning, since he would normally say that with any new mission directive. The only times Adam speaks are inside of Samus' ship (he's her ship's AI). So the opening cutscene, and the final cutscene when he warns her not to touch the ship controls.

I'll admit the ending with the Metroid DNA getting counteracted did strike me as too neat and tidy, especially with the standoff between Samus and the X where neither of them can theoretically leave the planet. But @Acacia Sgt already beat me to the in-universe explanation. X parasites are just globs of copied DNA that Samus consumes and selectively adapts. It's hard to say why the X would help her though. Sure, Samus' ship is the only way they're getting off this planet. But they can't make new copies after being consumed. Maybe this is just a desperate grasp at evolution? Maybe they think Samus will one day have kids and that's how they'll live on? I hope it has ramifications in some way for the sequel. Raven Beak was correct, Samus being the last living Metroid and last living X parasite makes her probably the greatest threat to the galactic safety. Even with how many times she's saved the galaxy, can she be sure she'll never become that ultimate predator against her will? Alternatively, all anybody needs is to trick or force her into a place where that DNA can be extracted, and suddenly the threat of Metroids of X could be revived. Can the Galactic Federation ever trust her? Fusion ends with her disobeying them and blowing up an entire planet. The plot of Metroid Dread that I always envisioned in my head would have been one where Samus was on the run from the Federation because of the biological and political threat she posed after Fusion. There's still opportunity to write that game.

 

Come to think of it, when have Power Bombs ever been incorporated into Metroid boss fights? The bosses tend to be immune to it. I guess if there are a lot of projectiles on screen you can clear them out with a pre-emptive power bomb. I feel like Other M was the only time it was not only required for some fights but consistently proving its usefulness for battle, to the point where they had to put a cooldown on it.

Spoiler

Ill have to go back and look, but i don't think it was Adam who told her not to touch the ship, I think it was quiet robe. I was waiting and expecting Adam to say something so I probably would have assumed it was him, but the way the scene is set up with Quiet Robe being shown a moment later makes me think otherwise. The language if the audio should indicate.

 

6 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

 

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The entire game, I suspect.  Since you only make contact with "Adam" after Samus wakes up alone at the bottom of this planet. There's even a brief scene before the final area where it's revealed that Raven beak has a room of monitors showing him all of Samus' activities. So it's not like he was guessing her current situation. Raven beak would have been impersonating him the entire time, guiding her in the precise direction of powerups and powerful enemies that would awaken her Metroid killer instinct, and repeatedly telling her she's too helpless to survive without these powerups. He says that he's guiding you to the ship, but in reality it was all detours and the path back there was carefully cut off from any angle. Quiet Robe was also probably going to be a key element of the misdirection, until he came close to divulging everything to Samus. So Raven Beak kept a Chozo assassin nearby. The distinct lack of Adam's catchphrase "any objections lady?" is also pretty damning, since he would normally say that with any new mission directive. The only times Adam speaks are inside of Samus' ship (he's her ship's AI). So the opening cutscene, and the final cutscene when he warns her not to touch the ship controls.

I'll admit the ending with the Metroid DNA getting counteracted did strike me as too neat and tidy, especially with the standoff between Samus and the X where neither of them can theoretically leave the planet. But @Acacia Sgt already beat me to the in-universe explanation. X parasites are just globs of copied DNA that Samus consumes and selectively adapts. It's hard to say why the X would help her though. Sure, Samus' ship is the only way they're getting off this planet. But they can't make new copies after being consumed. Maybe this is just a desperate grasp at evolution? Maybe they think Samus will one day have kids and that's how they'll live on? I hope it has ramifications in some way for the sequel. Raven Beak was correct, Samus being the last living Metroid and last living X parasite makes her probably the greatest threat to the galactic safety. Even with how many times she's saved the galaxy, can she be sure she'll never become that ultimate predator against her will? Alternatively, all anybody needs is to trick or force her into a place where that DNA can be extracted, and suddenly the threat of Metroids of X could be revived. Can the Galactic Federation ever trust her? Fusion ends with her disobeying them and blowing up an entire planet. The plot of Metroid Dread that I always envisioned in my head would have been one where Samus was on the run from the Federation because of the biological and political threat she posed after Fusion. There's still opportunity to write that game.

 

Come to think of it, when have Power Bombs ever been incorporated into Metroid boss fights? The bosses tend to be immune to it. I guess if there are a lot of projectiles on screen you can clear them out with a pre-emptive power bomb. I feel like Other M was the only time it was not only required for some fights but consistently proving its usefulness for battle, to the point where they had to put a cooldown on it.

Well you don't get power bombs until the final moments of the game in Other M, so itndoesnt really do much to help you with bosses generally speaking. It's basically a post game nuke that kills everything in the game. There is the optional boss Phantoon (or some such spelling), but I don't think they have any use in that fight.

5 hours ago, Florete said:

Both versions of Metroid 2 have uses for power bombs against the Metroid Queen, and a few fights in the Prime games also have uses for them (Omega Pirate and Emperor Ing at least).

The original Metroid 2 didn't have power bombs, just plain ordinary bombs. Unless by both versions of Metroid 2 you mean Samus Returns and AM2R.

Edited by Jotari

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8 hours ago, Jotari said:

 

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That's why I question whether it was Adam all along or not. He never uses the fact that he's feeding Samus Intel to do anything. Everything Adam says is pretty genuine. Samus isn't tricked or mislead at all. It feels ljke Samus would have do e all the same things even if Adam wasnt there. Maybe he directed her to go to the X area and unleash them on the planet, that's the only thing Samus really does in the story, but that makes way more sense if it's an accident as Raven Beak has no protection against the X.

To be fair to his plan it seems he was able to actually beat Samus in the end. It was just her metroid powers being op that he couldn't account for. Though it seems that exact Metroid power manifesting is why he kept her alive...well probably. Adam brings up the question of why he spared her on their first encounter but the game doesn't actually address it. He says he wants to clone and army of Samuses, but that should be just as possible by getting her DNA regardless as to how far along the transformation is.

 

 

Spoiler

Raven Beak had been impersonating Adam since his initial fight with Samus in Artaria. One of the first warning bells is when Samus first contacts "Adam" after the fact. He calls her Samus, not Lady. Adam always did, not just as the "Any objection, Lady?" phrase, but in general he used the Lady moniker. Throughout the game further warning bells are how he constantly demeans Samus stressing about how she's outmatched, helpless, etc. While also shilling Raven Beak's abilities (the guy had an ego, who knew, heh). The question here is how Samus never seems to question this until the reveal... a shame we didn't had her inner monologues like in Fusion. On the other hand... that would just spell out the impersonating reveal if we had Samus constantly pointing out how Adam is acting out of character.

As for why Raven Beak sent genuine intel and stuff to Samus... that was part of his plan. He wanted to bring out and awaken Samus' Metroid genes. That's why Raven Beak had Quiet Robe reprogram the EMMI to hunt down Samus and extract her DNA, set up the patrol zones, and all that stuff. He was putting Samus to the test, force her to struggle, survive, and thrive, in order for the Metroid DNA to manifest. Which definitely worked as we saw in the end. If she succeeded, then he would try to get her to join him. If not... well, he'd still have the extracted Metroid DNA for his clone army anyway.

As for why he bothered with all that instead of just extracting her DNA right away... like I said, the guy likely has an ego. Since it's his DNA the one Samus houses, he might really think of her as some sort of daughter-figure. His legacy. As such, he'd rather have her as the Jango Fett to his clone army, actually present, instead of using her remains posthumously. His mistake was thinking Samus would think like him. Not accounting that Samus wouldn't just throw away the memory of her biological and adopted parents, not to mention his attitude of acting like he is the only one of them who mattered.

 

8 hours ago, Jotari said:

 

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If Chozo can resist X infection, then why did Quiet Robe reactivate the EMMIes?

 

Spoiler

For better or worse, Samus absorbing the EMMI's abilities is the best way for her to become stronger and have a chance to fight Raven Beak... and perhaps Quiet Robe also wanted for her Metroid genes to come out, which wouldn't happen unless she was under situations of great duress. After all, we know what happened with the Red EMMI. Ultimately, it all depends on what exactly is going on. The X take on not just the DNA, but also knowledge and seemingly memories of their victims. But when it comes to the Chozo... do part of their subconscious or soul still remains behind and reverse-assimilate the X? Sadly, we can only do conjecture. But the fact is that QR-X acted so unlike what any other X has done, including seemingly sacrificing its own life in order to save Samus and keep her Metroid DNA in check (there's still some ambiguity when it comes to the SA-X's action at the end of Fusion, but with QR-X it's much more clear at least), and the only thing we have to go to set it apart from other X is that it's the only Thoha-X we've seen.

 

Edited by Acacia Sgt

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9 hours ago, Jotari said:

Well you don't get power bombs until the final moments of the game in Other M, so itndoesnt really do much to help you with bosses generally speaking. It's basically a post game nuke that kills everything in the game. There is the optional boss Phantoon (or some such spelling), but I don't think they have any use in that fight.

The post game is filled with these enemies that are tough enough to survive the power bomb. And it's necessary to kill them with a power bomb when they hunker down to regenerate their health (every other attack bounces off their shell). There's also that lengthy hallway before Phantoon where you're ambushed by mobs of enemies at a time. A power bomb can clear most of them out which is great. As for Phantoon, the power bomb is excellent. I can't say for sure if he takes damage from it until he starts destroying the walls of the arena (before this point, only your wave beam can reach him), but even in that early phase it's a great way to destroy the hands that he spawns in because they've got a lot of health and are very aggressive. A pre-emptive power bomb is ideal, since all of his attacks home in on you, you can't just sit there during the onslaught. When I'm speedrunning, my second power bomb to clear out his hands is typically what knocks him down for the overblast finisher.

14 hours ago, Florete said:

Both versions of Metroid 2 have uses for power bombs against the Metroid Queen, and a few fights in the Prime games also have uses for them (Omega Pirate and Emperor Ing at least).

Oh yeah! Using the grapple beam to roll into Queen Metroid, then power bomb her gut. You even take damage while inside of her. These developers must be Other M freaks like me to make all these references. Though you could also argue Mercury Steam is just hellbent on shouting out every metroid game as a sort of fan service.

And that begs the question, did Metroid Dread really need to add all these abilities? Because they didn't miss a whole lot - mostly stuff from the prime games, and at the very least it makes sense that they couldn't incorporate the Visors in a 2D game without making them work like that wonky X ray vision of Super. And how do you keep the X Ray vision relevant when Aeon Pulse is here? I don't have a problem with this sort of fan service, but even with this game being a touch longer than your average Metroid, it does feel like certain things don't get as much attention as they could have. Especially when they're straight upgrades to something previous. Wave beam just being a better Diffusion Beam, Space Jump being a better Spin Boost, etc.

Metroid abilities have always been keys to unlock doors from a game design standpoint, so of course series fanatics will be able to see behind the developer curtain. Maybe in the next game the focus should be on a few abilities that are mostly new to the series. Skills that possibly serve the purpose of one or two things in previous games but are more than just callbacks. That way we can have that same feeling of discovery as our first Metroid games. That's a lot of what I'm worried about with Prime 4, that they'll just give us the same game as Prime 1. A game that I do like to go back to, but is still confused about how to incorporate things from Super, and prompts the player to scan every damn thing because the level and aesthetic designs aren't strong enough that the player can correctly guess what to do at a glance. I really hope Retro takes note of how Metroid Dread color codes everything in order to cut down on scanning. Or do something to update the entire visor system to be more streamlined. I could think of some ideas.

Edited by Zapp Branniglenn

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I've just finished my second playthrough, some more thoughts on the items in general.

*Like I said, Cross Bombs are a really cool idea that I wish you got earlier in the game. But oh wow did I not realize on finishing before exactly how late you get them. They're the third last power up, before only the Wave Beam and Power Bombs. That's after the Screw Attack. You get them after the Screw Attack! They should have been before the Space Jump at the very least.

*Spin Jump is also a nice new addition, but you get it pretty close to the Space Jump. The High Jump has always been a rather boring power up, so this is a better idea for it, especially with how they use it in underwater sections, but just in general it feels kind of lost in the mix when you get the Space Jump later. I don't think I'll ever play a Metroid game and actively want the Space Jump gone, but making it one of the last power ups could definitely work for the game.

*It's not the first game to do it, but I think Super Missiles just being a straight upgrade to regular missiles is lame. It's not like you get a new item at all really, it just feels like missiles have to receive a mid game upgrade to stay relevant more than Super Missiles being their own thing with their own identity. I get they want to streamline the controls, and that worked pretty well on the GBA, but we have a few more buttons here, I think Super Missiles as a separate weapon could have worked. Maybe by pressing both right shoulder buttons at the same time (in other words pressing the missile and grapple beam toggles on).

*On the subject of Missiles, storm missiles are a fantastic idea and it's what the series has needed for a long time to make the massive number of missiles you have  by end game relevant (Metroid Prime kind of tried something in that vein, but it just didn't really work because the missile combo weapons were pretty useless, an idea I wouldn't object to seeing again though).

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I can't get it out of my mind that 

Spoiler

The Experiment Z57 boss drops a Core X that also falls into the lava in his death scene. What ability would that have granted Samus? It might have been cool if there was some flavor text from Adam suggesting that the Ice Beam was in there and you'll need a different means of freezing obstacles, thus leading to the ice missiles. However this boss fight is fought after obtaining the ice missiles. And their function is just blasting apart burning hazards. It occurs to me now that the function of freezing an enemy and standing atop it is never necessary. Not even for an optional item pickup.

 

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14 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

I can't get it out of my mind that 

  Hide contents

The Experiment Z57 boss drops a Core X that also falls into the lava in his death scene. What ability would that have granted Samus? It might have been cool if there was some flavor text from Adam suggesting that the Ice Beam was in there and you'll need a different means of freezing obstacles, thus leading to the ice missiles. However this boss fight is fought after obtaining the ice missiles. And their function is just blasting apart burning hazards. It occurs to me now that the function of freezing an enemy and standing atop it is never necessary. Not even for an optional item pickup.

 

Spoiler

Probably something related to that goop thing?

On the subject of that particular X, considering things, it's the same one that absorbed Kraid and then Raven Beak. A shame that monstrosity of a fusion was more of a cutscene boss and not actually a proper final boss fight as Metroid Samus.

 

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As another question, what power up did the first E.M.M.I. have? Each of the E.M.M.I. have a serial number based on the order you defeat them and what ability they give; the white one is E.M.M.I.-02SM because it's the second you fight and it gives the Spider Magnet, the next is E.M.M.I.-03MB, and so on. The damaged one is E.M.M.I.-01P, which doesn't give any indication about what abilities it had, if any.

We learn from the Chozo Archives why it was damaged though:

Spoiler

Raven Beak defeated it, likely around the time he defeated Samus at the beginning of the game. He and Quiet Robe probably figured out how to reprogram them afterwards.

 

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4 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

I can't get it out of my mind that 

  Reveal hidden contents

The Experiment Z57 boss drops a Core X that also falls into the lava in his death scene. What ability would that have granted Samus? It might have been cool if there was some flavor text from Adam suggesting that the Ice Beam was in there and you'll need a different means of freezing obstacles, thus leading to the ice missiles. However this boss fight is fought after obtaining the ice missiles. And their function is just blasting apart burning hazards. It occurs to me now that the function of freezing an enemy and standing atop it is never necessary. Not even for an optional item pickup.

 

Clearly it would've been Crystal Flash.

3 hours ago, Lightchao42 said:

As another question, what power up did the first E.M.M.I. have? Each of the E.M.M.I. have a serial number based on the order you defeat them and what ability they give; the white one is E.M.M.I.-02SM because it's the second you fight and it gives the Spider Magnet, the next is E.M.M.I.-03MB, and so on. The damaged one is E.M.M.I.-01P, which doesn't give any indication about what abilities it had, if any.

The ability to jog. I miss the ability to jog. Samus can only run everywhere now. What a shame.

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10 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

I can't get it out of my mind that 

  Hide contents

The Experiment Z57 boss drops a Core X that also falls into the lava in his death scene. What ability would that have granted Samus? It might have been cool if there was some flavor text from Adam suggesting that the Ice Beam was in there and you'll need a different means of freezing obstacles, thus leading to the ice missiles. However this boss fight is fought after obtaining the ice missiles. And their function is just blasting apart burning hazards. It occurs to me now that the function of freezing an enemy and standing atop it is never necessary. Not even for an optional item pickup.

 

I think it's just a regular core x. In Fusion the beam X cores all have a different design with an outer shield that lets them only be damaged from the area it attacks. It also doesn't use any ice attacks. The beam it does use seems similar to the Hyper Beam Samus uses at the end though. It also slashes with its claws a lot, so maybe some kind of upgrade to Samus's melee attack (I'm sure they'll think of some way to upgrade it in a unique way eventually).

6 hours ago, Clear World said:

Clearly it would've been Crystal Flash.

The ability to jog. I miss the ability to jog. Samus can only run everywhere now. What a shame.

Bringing back the Crystal Flash would be nice, though I think it could only ever work as a secret technique like it is. Speaking if "secret techniques" (which the shin spark sort of was in the beginning), why do you think they gave a dedicated button in put for the speed booster? Seems a bit inconvenient to have a button for something like that which was automatic before.

 

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