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New Heroes and Ascended Fjorm

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1 hour ago, ARMADS!!! said:

 Maybe they update her kit in the future and give her Ice Mirror II, but yeah, I'm also pretty sure she won't come with it

If they ever update her skills, it'll be a long, long time from now.

Currently, there are only two processes that allow a unit's skills to be updated: the Weapon Refinery and Legendary Hero Remixes.

The Weapon Refinery only applies to weapons and was released 10 months after the release of the first eligible units and is currently about 36 months behind the release of the units receiving updates. Its release came only a few months after the first CYL banner and the following Genealogy banner, which introduced exclusive weapons with two effects instead of one.

Legendary Hero Remix only applies to Legendary Heroes (and presumably Mythic Heroes eventually) and was released 38 months after the release of the first eligible units. Legendary Heroes are, of course, notable because they are used for the scoring mechanics of several competitive game modes, and many of the older units had exclusive skills that were underwhelming or outclassed by more recent skills or have had their exclusive skills given to other versions of the character released afterward.

Given that there does not seem to be any game mechanics tied to the combat performance of Ascended Heroes, there doesn't really appear to be any justification for them to receive future updates outside of the Weapon Refinery (though it'll be about 6 years before the Weapon Refinery will reach Fjorm).

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3 minutes ago, Othin said:

That order doesn't sound right to me. They choose how many OCs to make, knowing that it takes resources on their end but that they'll have fans.

True they could just make less characters. But the problem is that forcing yourself to not create too many charcters can hurt your story. As of now certainly some characters are expendable (the Giants) but you kinda need Eitri to exist and all the Nidavellir siblings for the story to work. You need both Nifl and Muspell for the TT storyline to work. You need Gustav and Henriette to exist in order to make some character development for the protagonist.

And there are also many cases of OCs that are technically not necessary to the plot, but cutting them would make things worse. Like, Triandra and Plumeria are not necessary, we could have Freyja as a solitary villain. But then every chapter would either be filler, with like Ashnard as the main boss, or you fight Freyja 10 times in row with all tension and hype for a villain destroyed. We already have some people thinking we fought Surtr too many times in book 2, imagine if there were no princesses and no Helbindi. Never underestimate how important henchmen are, they bring variety and you are allowed to make weirder stuff because they aren't the main characters, so you can go wild. 

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48 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

I was making a joke which I guess didn't go as well as I hoped. I thought actually asking for a generic monster to be playable was a dead giveaway, but that's on me.

Answering your actual criticism, honestly even if people will get upset about it, I don't see another solution.

It's not "having an OC with every banner just to have it". It's "we already made the OCs and we have to distribute them to the players somehow".

As I said in my post, let's take BOOK VI as an example. It added: Reginn, Otr, Fafnir, Nott, Dagr, Eitri, Nifl and Muspel. That's 8 new characters with brand new designs that people will pull for, because even the worst received one (Otr) is guaranteed to have more fans than VYLAND and ROSHEA. You have only 6 Mythic slots and there is also a line of old OCs waiting for their turn. That obviously isn't enough for everyone to get in, but picking favorites and only making some OCs playable will piss the fans off. I have seen people genuinely angry because we don't have Freyr, Bruno and Gustav. And people swearing that they would throw all their votes towards Thorr if she was votable in CYL.

The old saying that every Fire Emblem character is someone favorite character rings true for the OCs as well, especially if a good chunk of the community has played only a couple, or even zero games outside of Heroes. But even if the Mythic slots were enough/they made less character for book VII, fans of other games will be pissed, especially if they have no mythic at all yet (hello Sacred Stones fans).

If you risk pissing the fans of Heroes off, or the fans of older games off the most reasonable solution is finding a third way that ends with less people pissed.

And dividing the OCs equally between New Heroes banners and Mythic banners is a good compromise, even if I would prefer they all end up on New Heroes banner.

And I hear some people argue that they would prefer if things were like 2018, with the Generals of Muspell banner getting all the OCs in one go (and even then it wasn't in one go. We were missing Surtr, Loki Hrid and Ylgr) and wanting the OCs to get their own banner so they don't have to be shoehorned into banners destroying whatever theme they have.

And I don't agree at all with this idea. That would actually steal the spot from a true New Heroes banner, as if Fallen Heroes wasn't enough. That would actually reduce the amount of Fire Emblem characters we get in a year. I question the priorities of people who prefer a better theme for a banner over getting more units from games other than Heroes. I guess it comes with the Pro of 1 "skip" banner guaranteed every year for the fans that just hate the OCs, so that's something. And if the problem is that we get one less 5-star for a specific game that ends up as a 3-star insteas, I still don't think that's a problem. If the alternative is getting the token third 5-star Hero who is 5-star in name only and pity breaks people causing a lot of salt like Lugh, Hubert and Fiora, then it's better if they end up as 3-star heroes instead. They remain bad units, but at least they don't break your pity rate.

 

 

If you have other ideas to make both the fans of older games and the OCs enjoyers somewhat happy I would love to hear them.

Another solution would be to make the weird Triandra and Freyja Mythic banner the new standard, doubling the Mythic slots we get in a year. That could work but doesn't address the problem of other games needing mythics too.

 

EDIT: And in the case of Ascended Heroes specifically, it's too soon to tell. As other people said, they may not be limited to OCs, and we may get Ascended Ike soon. And if they are limited to OCs I hope we don't get them every month because that would really throw a wrench in the "getting every OC playable plan" stealing a slot not from regular Heroes, but from other OCs. On the other hand, even Seasonal Slots have weight, so depending on who you ask if Fjorm getting an alt as a Bonus unit in a New Heroes banner means she frees up a spot for a seasonal alt for a character from another game that's a positive too.

Thats just... wow, thats a truly great idea, I never thought about that.

 Just adding that Thorr probably wasn't in CYL for not spoiling the future of the story purpouses, I bet she will only be playable after we fight her as a boss (or kill her), so it didn't have anything to do with that. And I think Bruno is not playable yet for story purpouses too (I think he will join you in a later book, probably along with Veronica). But with the exception of this I basically agree with everything you said (I'm just not sure about the whole thing involving ascendant heroes but yeah, no one is yet so it doesn't matter). I wish IS had people like you working there, but unfortunately I think that for some reason they don't give a crap about pissing off the least amount of people as possible (otherwise we would have Nyna in the game already)

 I don't know if it sounded like I was being ironic or mocking you for the way I'm saying it (in english it gives me the impression that this sounded kinda sarcastic), but I'm truly not, your idea is pretty good.

 

 Just one more thing, I think that in reality some OCs may never be playable, like lots of FE games have characters that won't ever be playable, FEH will likely have some too. Their fans will be pissed of course, but thats what it is, not everyone can be added (but Camilla can have 8 alts). I think I like every OC, and I definitively care more about them than I'll ever care about Roshea and Vyland, but I get that no FE game will have 100% of their characters covered in the game, neither Heroes.

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12 minutes ago, ARMADS!!! said:

Thats just... wow, thats a truly great idea, I never thought about that.

 Just adding that Thorr probably wasn't in CYL for not spoiling the future of the story purpouses, I bet she will only be playable after we fight her as a boss (or kill her), so it didn't have anything to do with that. And I think Bruno is not playable yet for story purpouses too (I think he will join you in a later book, probably along with Veronica). But with the exception of this I basically agree with everything you said (I'm just not sure about the whole thing involving ascendant heroes but yeah, no one is yet so it doesn't matter). I wish IS had people like you working there, but unfortunately I think that for some reason they don't give a crap about pissing off the least amount of people as possible (otherwise we would have Nyna in the game already)

 I don't know if it sounded like I was being ironic or mocking you for the way I'm saying it (in english it gives me the impression that this sounded kinda sarcastic), but I'm truly not, your idea is pretty good.

 

 Just one more thing, I think that in reality some OCs may never be playable, like lots of FE games have characters that won't ever be playable, FEH will likely have some too. Their fans will be pissed of course, but thats what it is, not everyone can be added (but Camilla can have 8 alts). I think I like every OC, and I definitively care more about them than I'll ever care about Roshea and Vyland, but I get that no FE game will have 100% of their characters covered in the game, neither Heroes.

Thanks for the compliments ahah, but if IS hired me I would certainly do a terrible job since I don't have a clue about how to balance the game and my perspective as a collector certainly isn't good for all kinds of players.

About some OCs never being playable, I would have agreed before but we got every single final boss this far, so other than maybe the Final Final Boss I don't see who else would be excluded.

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1 hour ago, GrandeRampel said:

If you have other ideas to make both the fans of older games and the OCs enjoyers somewhat happy I would love to hear them.

How about, just don't have a FEH OC on literally every New Heroes banner? Save the OCs only for the banners (like this one) that would've been doomed to bomb if it had to stand on its on. That sounds like a reasonable and sound idea to me.

Like, Muspell absolutely did not need to be on the Ashen Wolves banner from a sales standpoint. Yuri and friends would've made bank just as easily on their own. That last Fates banner also would've been just fine without Nifl. Constantly shoehorning in FEH OCs is only going to cause people to become more and more tired of them (even people like me who tolerate them). You know, like what happened to Awakening and Fates near the beginning of this game's lifespan (and Awakening in particular is still being punished for that early seasonal spam to this day).

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33 minutes ago, ARMADS!!! said:

Just one more thing, I think that in reality some OCs may never be playable, like lots of FE games have characters that won't ever be playable, FEH will likely have some too. Their fans will be pissed of course, but thats what it is, not everyone can be added (but Camilla can have 8 alts). I think I like every OC, and I definitively care more about them than I'll ever care about Roshea and Vyland, but I get that no FE game will have 100% of their characters covered in the game, neither Heroes.

Heroes is not a traditional FE game. It's ultimately meant to function as a fun party celebrating every FE story, even its own original stories, inviting even the worst villains and least combat-ready NPCs.

If they've already made Heroes art for a character, I don't think it would make sense for them to choose not to ever make that character available somehow. From their perspective, that's just wasteful - it's throwing away a chance for free money.

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1 hour ago, GrandeRampel said:

You need both Nifl and Muspell for the TT storyline to work.

We didn't need the TT storyline in the first place.

1 hour ago, GrandeRampel said:

You need Gustav and Henriette to exist in order to make some character development for the protagonist.

All the FE lords with dead parents would like to have a word with you. Alfonse shouldn't exist anyway.

For the record, I don't actually have any issue with the above-mentioned characters, though the concept of characters existing for the sole purpose of developing someone else is a sign of poor writing.

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I dont know if people already shared it before, but... Here's Sedgar's ART and chibi:

Spoiler

k9O9Uee.png

vnJ3xNo.png

4dkcMl4.png

VXQBXRF.png

eDNSK0w.png

Looks like he has an Instant Bow, which is a mini Sturdy Impact (Non-Seasonal version of Budding Bow, Valentine Faye's Bow).

We don't know his color yet.

He kinda looks likes Alm. lol

 

Edited by Diovani Bressan

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38 minutes ago, Othin said:

Heroes is not a traditional FE game. It's ultimately meant to function as a fun party celebrating every FE story, even its own original stories, inviting even the worst villains and least combat-ready NPCs.

If they've already made Heroes art for a character, I don't think it would make sense for them to choose not to ever make that character available somehow. From their perspective, that's just wasteful - it's throwing away a chance for free money.

 I like this first line you wrote, sounds like something that could be used in a synopsis for the game.

 And I guess I... partially agree with the last part.  If by "they've already made Heroes art for a character" you mean units like Bruno and OG!Veronica (who both have the 4 arts, battle sprites, voice actors, movement and weapon type decided, stats, skills and weapon) then yes, they are technically wasting it (assuming we won't get Bruno and Veronica later but lets forget it for now). Same goes for Freyr (He only didn't have a weapon (and skills as far as I remember)), but still he had everything else (even a battle sprite! well, except for the animation for his inexistent weapon but still...) and Gustav (after book III). All they would have to do, in general, would be to write some lines for them.

Now think about Henriette before the Valentines banner (same goes for Gustav before book III), she had one art (I bet she don't even have the other 3 because she probably wouldnt ever be playable if it wasn't for heavy fan demand) and was just coincidentally holding a tome in this one art (so we happen to know what weapon she liked) but if IS ever wanted to make her playable they would have to do the remaining 3 arts, battle sprites for her (and decide what would be her mov type), Invent a weapon and the animation for this weapon (and choose a color), chose her stats and skills, and then write the dialogues that summonable characters have and pay a voice actress, so in this case it would definitively not be free money. (Ok, now that we already have a Henriette alt we already have an idea of her stats and she has a sprite already, but I said to imagine it was before the Valentines banner).

 Same goes for Thorr, we only have 1 art and nothing else (but lets assume that Thorr wouldn't ever appear in a map like Henriette won't, at leats we know that someday she will have sprites, weapon, etc).

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44 minutes ago, Florete said:

We didn't need the TT storyline in the first place.

All the FE lords with dead parents would like to have a word with you. Alfonse shouldn't exist anyway.

For the record, I don't actually have any issue with the above-mentioned characters, though the concept of characters existing for the sole purpose of developing someone else is a sign of poor writing.

True, but that doesn't mean that creating it was a bad idea. There was a desire by many people to see some of the old OCs have a role again, look at the good reception after they showed up in forging bonds for the first time, or when Peony showed up in Book 5. Look at how many people hope that Eir will get the same treatment after Fjorm's side-story is done. If you cared about one OC to the point of voting them in CYL (many OCs score pretty well), whaling for their alts and using them in PvP, chances are you care to know how their story continues.

Many people, me included, often wondered if Hrid and Laevatein would come to our rescue in a future book storyline, because they are friends with Askr, and it's not like they stopped existing just because we shifted our attention to a different kingdom. If we can't have that in the main book, side-stories are a good alternative.

TBH, I find your take so reductionist that it becomes cynic. We didn't need the story of Nifl and Muspell to exist. Sure. We also didn't really need the story of the Dream World to exist. And we don't need any other story to exist in the future really, aside from one that solves the Embla curse and Bruno's storyline. And also maybe let's stop Loki and Thorr once and for all. It can be done all in book 6 and after that we will only get filler paralogues with every new banner, forever. 

Also since the TT+ storyline is bringing up some kind of lore about profecies and all the Divine Dragons of this world, for all we know some of the events and information from this TT+ will be vital for the final book. 

Edited by GrandeRampel

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2 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

TBH, I find your take so reductionist that it becomes cynic. We didn't need the story of Nifl and Muspell to exist. Sure. We also didn't really need the story of the Dream World to exist. And we don't need any other story to exist in the future really, aside from one that solves the Embla curse and Bruno's storyline. And also maybe let's stop Loki and Thorr once and for all. It can be done all in book 7 and after that we will only get filler paralogues with every new banner, forever. 

Look, I'm not against the idea of the TT storyline or Nifl and Muspell existing, I'm only saying that the idea that they "needed" to exist because of the TT storyline is poor logic since we've had years of TT stories without needing to have new OCs. The main story books are a completely separate matter.

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9 minutes ago, ARMADS!!! said:

 I like this first line you wrote, sounds like something that could be used in a synopsis for the game.

 And I guess I... partially agree with the last part.  If by "they've already made Heroes art for a character" you mean units like Bruno and OG!Veronica (who both have the 4 arts, battle sprites, voice actors, movement and weapon type decided, stats, skills and weapon) then yes, they are technically wasting it (assuming we won't get Bruno and Veronica later but lets forget it for now). Same goes for Freyr (He only didn't have a weapon (and skills as far as I remember)), but still he had everything else (even a battle sprite! well, except for the animation for his inexistent weapon but still...) and Gustav (after book III). All they would have to do, in general, would be to write some lines for them.

Now think about Henriette before the Valentines banner (same goes for Gustav before book III), she had one art (I bet she don't even have the other 3 because she probably wouldnt ever be playable if it wasn't for heavy fan demand) and was just coincidentally holding a tome in this one art (so we happen to know what weapon she liked) but if IS ever wanted to make her playable they would have to do the remaining 3 arts, battle sprites for her (and decide what would be her mov type), Invent a weapon and the animation for this weapon (and choose a color), chose her stats and skills, and then write the dialogues that summonable characters have and pay a voice actress, so in this case it would definitively not be free money. (Ok, now that we already have a Henriette alt we already have an idea of her stats and she has a sprite already, but I said to imagine it was before the Valentines banner).

 Same goes for Thorr, we only have 1 art and nothing else (but lets assume that Thorr wouldn't ever appear in a map like Henriette won't, at leats we know that someday she will have sprites, weapon, etc).

It's true that ones that haven't appeared in battle may have a bit of an odd halfway status, but that assumes there isn't already other art for them that they haven't shown, and I'm not sure that's the case. Seems like if they think they might want to add the character eventually, they'd probably want to get it all up-front to make sure they can get it all with the same artist and consistent style. And for characters they know will be prominent and likely popular, I think they'd want to keep that option open.

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You need characters to have a coherent narrative, but you don’t need to have as many narratives as Heroes does. Maybe Nifl v Muspell could have gone on for multiple books and the characters been given more development.

As for my 2 cents, nothing against the OCs, but I would have made Forging Bonds/Lost Lore the main narrative of Heroes.

 

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1 hour ago, Diovani Bressan said:

I dont know if people already shared it before, but... Here's Sedgar's ART and chibi:

  Hide contents

k9O9Uee.png

vnJ3xNo.png

4dkcMl4.png

VXQBXRF.png

eDNSK0w.png

Looks like he has an Instant Bow, which is a mini Sturdy Impact (Non-Seasonal version of Budding Bow, Valentine Faye's Bow).

We don't know his color yet.

He kinda looks likes Alm. lol

 

The bow in his artwork looks mighty ... green. As does the rest of him.

I hope he's not yet another green bow cav.

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3 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

I hope he's not yet another green bow cav.

My hope for him to not be a Green Bow is Python, who is mostly Blue but ended as a Green Bow Cav.

But yeah... That can happen.

I really hope he is a Red Bow Cav, so the WolfGuard can have one member of each color.

Edited by Diovani Bressan

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2 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

My hope for him to not be a Green Bow is Python, who is mostly Blue but ended as a Green Bow Cav.

But yeah... That can happen.

I really hope he is a Red Bow Cav, so the WolfGuard can have one member of each color.

Red would be good, yeah. I think there are less red bows than green or blue bows.

Are there even any red or blue bow cavaliers though?

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27 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Nope.

Which is really funny considering there's four green bow cavs.

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Just now, Othin said:

Which is really funny considering there's four green bow cavs.

Yeah.

Python should be a Blue Bow Cav since the beginning, buy they didnt want him sharing color with Forsyth I guess.

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1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

Red would be good, yeah. I think there are less red bows than green or blue bows.

The spread of red/blue/green bows is currently 6/9/9, so red is indeed behind. 

All of the red bows except bride Shanna are infantry as well and the first red bow (Igrene) wasn't released until November 2019 (when colored bows as a concept debuted with Legendary Lyn on May 1st, 2018).

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3 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

I dont know if people already shared it before, but... Here's Sedgar's ART and chibi:

  Reveal hidden contents

k9O9Uee.png

vnJ3xNo.png

4dkcMl4.png

VXQBXRF.png

eDNSK0w.png

Looks like he has an Instant Bow, which is a mini Sturdy Impact (Non-Seasonal version of Budding Bow, Valentine Faye's Bow).

We don't know his color yet.

He kinda looks likes Alm. lol

 

I like the art, it's pretty on point. I like all the green, but green is my favorite color.

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Stats [SPOILERS]:

Spoiler

vx7yq00755u71.png

Ascended Fjorm
Super Asset(s): Atk, Spd
Super Flaw(s): Def

Malice
Super Asset(s): Atk, Spd
Super Flaw(s): HP, Res

Roshea
Super Asset(s): none
Super Flaw(s): none
*Spd/Def Form 3 is the 4* unlock.

Wolf
Super Asset(s): Atk
Super Flaw(s): HP, Spd, Def

Vyland
Super Asset(s): Atk
Super Flaw(s): Spd
*Atk/Def Link 3 is the 4* unlock

Sedgar
Super Asset(s): Spd, Def, Res
Super Flaw(s): non
*Kit is Instant Bow+, -, Blazing Wind, Atk/Def Catch 3, Chill Def 3 [4* unlock], -
*He literally just has Summer Leonie's stat line, with all the extra stat points he has over her being put into Res. Oh IS, you never fail to disappoint with these recent GHBs.

 

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4 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

The bow in his artwork looks mighty ... green. As does the rest of him.

I hope he's not yet another green bow cav.

FUCK

Seriously IS, how could you not take the opportunity to make Sedgar a red bow cavalier? This is dumb.

Edited by Sunwoo
Because someone told me to

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Oh yeah, I forgot other units exist.

Wolf is okay I guess; Desperation alone does not really seem exciting, but his Desperation is easier to trigger. His Weapon also helps with high HP play style, but I personally prefer low HP play style for Wings of Mercy. I do not see the Weapon being too relevent though.

Malice got Slaying and Null Special. Other than Galeforce, I cannot really think of anything she would excel in.

Roshe has Stout Lance, which is nice.

Edited by XRay

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as long as they keep giving me free orbs and arena bonus units, i'm generally fine with anything else that comes with them

sure, i couldn't care less about Heroes OCs and i wish they were never a thing to begin with, but if this means Makalov, Boyd, Arthur and other characters i care about have an actual chance of being  4* focus units or free 5* units, then' i'm all for it

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