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drattakbowser

Wyvern Lord character tier list

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These largely seem like solid picks. If I were to make any changes:

Male!Teach: Great -> Okay. Whereas Female!Teach can go Pegasus Knight with as low as E+ Flight, the Male version won't have good certification odds in Wyvern Rider until D+ Flight (so, a lotta Faculty Training). Also, only the female version can get Darting Blow.

Flayn: Okay -> Bad. She doesn't learn Frozen Lance until A-rank, so her only options for doing decent damage until then are the Bolt Axe (B) or the Levin Sword (C).

Hapi: Great -> Okay. Absent the Lightning Axe art, Hapi will either need to rely on Bolt Axes for damage, or go with her inferior Attack stat.

Manuela: Great -> Okay. She joins fairly late with E-ranks in both Axes and Lances, and lacks a strong offense on either side of the equation.

Anna: Great -> Okay. She's only neutral in Flight, again doesn't display great offense on either side, and she can't receive (nor provide) any linked attack boosts.

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I would say Hapi is BAD as a Wyvern Lord. Having to use Bolt Axes for magic offense is a terrible position to be in. Other than that, she's stuck using her lower strength stat for damage.

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3 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

These largely seem like solid picks. If I were to make any changes:

Male!Teach: Great -> Okay. Whereas Female!Teach can go Pegasus Knight with as low as E+ Flight, the Male version won't have good certification odds in Wyvern Rider until D+ Flight (so, a lotta Faculty Training). Also, only the female version can get Darting Blow.

Flayn: Okay -> Bad. She doesn't learn Frozen Lance until A-rank, so her only options for doing decent damage until then are the Bolt Axe (B) or the Levin Sword (C).

Hapi: Great -> Okay. Absent the Lightning Axe art, Hapi will either need to rely on Bolt Axes for damage, or go with her inferior Attack stat.

Manuela: Great -> Okay. She joins fairly late with E-ranks in both Axes and Lances, and lacks a strong offense on either side of the equation.

Anna: Great -> Okay. She's only neutral in Flight, again doesn't display great offense on either side, and she can't receive (nor provide) any linked attack boosts.

 

2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I would say Hapi is BAD as a Wyvern Lord. Having to use Bolt Axes for magic offense is a terrible position to be in. Other than that, she's stuck using her lower strength stat for damage.

All rights, this 5 character are changed by your comments since I think too. If other characters is/are very strong or weak, please comment me.

 

my-image (19).png

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I'd move both Byleths up a slot myself (female to the top tier, male back to great). They have outstanding stats (in particular, the 13 base str and the +2 damage post-TS means they have an easy time one-rounding things with a combination of Brave Axe and doubles), might as well get them as much mobility as possible. Claude should be in the top tier as well, for sure: great stats, flying boon, axe budding talent... he's his own route's best Alert Stance+ dodgetank.

Great feels like it could use a bit more separation. Catherine, Ferdinand, Sylvain, and Ingrid do much better in the class than the likes of Caspar, Alois, or Gilbert. I guess I'd propose:

Excellent: FByleth, Edelgard, Claude, Petra

Great: MByleth, Dimitri, Ferdinand, Felix, Sylvain, Ingrid, Hilda, Leonie, Seteth, Catherine, Cyril, Jeritza

Good: Caspar, Dedue, Ashe, Annette, Raphael, Alois, Balthus

(drop Gilbert to OK, he starts with E flying in chapter 13; I replaced him with Balthus)

Yuri probably shouldn't be in the bottom tier; even with the sketchy talent list his stats are well-suited to the class, unlike everyone else in that tier.

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1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Yuri probably shouldn't be in the bottom tier; even with the sketchy talent list his stats are well-suited to the class, unlike everyone else in that tier.

This. Wyvern Yuri is a pain in the ass to pull off but with the sauna and a bit of favouritism early on he can do it and he does it really well, like Petra without darting blow. I’d put him in OK, maybe at the bottom of OK if you feel the effort is way too much.

 

 

I’d also like to make the case for Hapi as OK, instead of bad. Yeah, shes got mage stats and can’t make use of them in the class except for a Bolt Axe, but her strength, as mages go, isn’t abysmal. It’s comparable to Ashe, as they share the same strength growth, though his base is two higher than Hapi’s. Her damage will suck, but she does have exhaustive strike to semi-carry it- its not something you can rely on, but she’ll do chip damage normally and can use Exhaustive Strike on occasion if she needs a bit extra for a crucial kill. You’ll be babying her, but you’d do pretty much the same with Ashe.

And due to their low strength growth, neither of them will surpass the Wyvern rider base strength, on average- Ashe barely reaches it assuming a fighter > brigand > Wyvern class path (17.9 average strength, the base is 18), whereas Hapi will be behind up until then (16.5 strength), but they’ll both be bumped up to the base 18 in the end anyways, so once they both get on a Wyvern their damage will be the same, on average. But Hapi still has exhaustive strike, deals guaranteed effective damage to monsters (and can potentially act as monster bait with a Seiros Shield), has a better boon list for the class overall IMO (a flying boon and lance neutral compared to Ashes lance boon and flying neutral), and can still pull off the Bolt Axe thing as a side gig if you want.

Anyway, long essay aside, yeah this is more a gimmick build than anything, but I legitimately think it still has more utility than Wyvern Ashe. Due to both the poor start in her physical class and the loss of one of the greatest spell lists in the game, I probably wouldn’t put her any higher than OK, but she definitely deserves better than Bad. So OK it is.

I remember arguing against this build, and exhaustive strike in general, a while back lmao. Using it on Hapi has given me a fair appreciation of it. How the turns have tabled.

 

Also on that note Ashe could probably use a bump down a tier as well. No way he’s on par with someone like Sylvain. Holy Elf’s suggestion of maybe adding an extra tier in between is a good one.

Edited by Anathaco

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1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Excellent: FByleth, Edelgard, Claude, Petra

Great: MByleth, Dimitri, Ferdinand, Felix, Sylvain, Ingrid, Hilda, Leonie, Seteth, Catherine, Cyril, Jeritza

Good: Caspar, Dedue, Ashe, Annette, Raphael, Alois, Balthus

This seems fairly solid - I was considering proposing a switch to a 5-tier scheme, but didn't want to over-complicate things. The Swift Strikers certainly belong above, say, Caspar and Ashe. I'm still kind of leery about the effort to get Teach (male in particular) into Wyvern Rider/Lord, although I don't doubt they'll perform excellently upon reaching it. Catherine I could also see knocked down to Good, since she's only neutral in all relevant areas, and takes a few chapters to start building ranks.

11 minutes ago, Anathaco said:

Anyway, long essay aside, yeah this is more a gimmick build than anything, but I legitimately think it still has more utility than Wyvern Ashe. Due to both the poor start in her physical class and the loss of one of the greatest spell lists in the game, I probably wouldn’t put her any higher than OK, but she definitely deserves better than Bad. So OK it is.

Second that Hapi doesn't belong in the lowest tier. She's strong in Flight, with a budding talent in Axes, and her Strength isn't quite abyssal (heh). Plus, she brings an interesting niche in anti-monster effectiveness, including the ability to shatter any monster armor. OK is totally reasonable for her.

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50 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

This seems fairly solid - I was considering proposing a switch to a 5-tier scheme, but didn't want to over-complicate things. The Swift Strikers certainly belong above, say, Caspar and Ashe. I'm still kind of leery about the effort to get Teach (male in particular) into Wyvern Rider/Lord, although I don't doubt they'll perform excellently upon reaching it. Catherine I could also see knocked down to Good, since she's only neutral in all relevant areas, and takes a few chapters to start building ranks.

Catherine, MByleth, and Dimitri are all examples of units who aren't perfectly suited to the job in terms of skill ranks (Dimitri has an axe bane, MByleth has trouble training flying, and Catherine needs to wait until recruitment to start) but make up for it with killer stats. In the particular case of Catherine she doesn't even miss that much, especially since she gets access to Pegasus Knight in Intermediate tier to help with the transition. Another perk she has is that she gets +5 def/res with no battalion, which is relevant if you want more than one pegasus knight in chapters 6-7 since one has to go without (might as well be her). I think they belong with the other people in Great myself.

Edited by Dark Holy Elf

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Has anyone actually had Jeritza as a Wyvern Lord? I can't say I've ever tried it, but it certainly sounds pretty terrible. He starts out with no ranks in Axes or Flying, and he's the joint latest recruitment in the game while being exclusive to the shortest route. You only have him for 6 chapters in total, which is not a lot of time to train. Then even if you do get him into the class, its stat boosts aren't that impressive since they're competing against his personal class which is also very strong. Not quite as good as Wyvern Lord, but still excellent. And his unique class also comes with Lancefaire instead of Axefaire and has magic use, which can be useful for throwing out an occasional Heal or Thoron.

Anyway, my own personal list would probably look something more like this:

Should I put this character on a wyvern?

  • Yes: Edelgard, Hilda, Petra, Seteth.
  • Probably: Annette, Cyril
  • If you want to: Everyone else.

I admit that my own personal list is probably not the most useful.

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Jeritza has a C+ in axes and while flying is an E, it's also a budding talent which quite frankly you should train three times regardless of his build (which alone should get him to D+). Wyvern Rider, at least, is a very fast qualify for him. Wyvern Lord, he'll have a 50% chance with B+ axes B flying and that's not... terribly unreasonable to have by the last two maps (it's 500 axe exp and 680 flying exp in 4 chapters), which are both maps where flying is super-useful. I've never done this myself, but I've seen people speak highly of it. Of course, you can't go wrong with keeping him in Death Knight either, but its mobility is a bit limiting at endgame.

8 minutes ago, lenticular said:

I admit that my own personal list is probably not the most useful.

Honestly it's pretty good! Very funcitonal. There's a case to drop Seteth to "probably" if you reaaaally want his Swift Strikes damage as high as possible (i.e. going to Paladin instead) but I don't really buy it either, having tried it. I think no-DLC Catherine is a "probably" as well (War Cleric is really her only other good build IMO). There's some units I'm inclined to put as ""If you want to but it's not a great idea" but yeah it works.

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9 minutes ago, lenticular said:

Has anyone actually had Jeritza as a Wyvern Lord?

Admittedly, no, I opted for War Master Jeritza instead.

I think it’s to do with the fact that his budding talent incentivises you to train his flying anyway, and best class in the game with a unit who has some of the best stats in the game is a pretty sick combo in theory. Though the poor availability is definitely a knock against it.

I’ve only played CF once anyway, and it was on hard, so i don’t really know if there’s a preferred strat to optimising his training or anything like that.

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11 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Jeritza has a C+ in axes and while flying is an E, it's also a budding talent which quite frankly you should train three times regardless of his build (which alone should get him to D+). Wyvern Rider, at least, is a very fast qualify for him. Wyvern Lord, he'll have a 50% chance with B+ axes B flying and that's not... terribly unreasonable to have by the last two maps (it's 500 axe exp and 680 flying exp in 4 chapters), which are both maps where flying is super-useful. I've never done this myself, but I've seen people speak highly of it. Of course, you can't go wrong with keeping him in Death Knight either, but its mobility is a bit limiting at endgame.

I couldn't remember what his starting rank in axes was so I looked it up. SF main site lists him as not having any starting rank in axes. If that's wrong and he actually starts at C+, then yeah, I can definitely see a much stronger argument for it. Probably not something I'd bother with myself, but I can see the argument, especially given the non-cavalry-friendly terrain in CF endgame.

16 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Honestly it's pretty good! Very funcitonal. There's a case to drop Seteth to "probably" if you reaaaally want his Swift Strikes damage as high as possible (i.e. going to Paladin instead) but I don't really buy it either, having tried it. I think no-DLC Catherine is a "probably" as well (War Cleric is really her only other good build IMO). There's some units I'm inclined to put as ""If you want to but it's not a great idea" but yeah it works.

There are certainly some in my "If you want to" tier where it's a better idea than others, but it's a sufficiently strong class that you can't really have a calamitous Wyvern Lord. You can have mediocre Wyvern Lords and not worth the effort Wyvern Lords, but I can't see anyone being truly awful. Not in the same way that, for instance, Bishop Petra is truly abysmal.

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On 10/19/2021 at 12:58 AM, lenticular said:

Has anyone actually had Jeritza as a Wyvern Lord? I can't say I've ever tried it, but it certainly sounds pretty terrible. He starts out with no ranks in Axes or Flying, and he's the joint latest recruitment in the game while being exclusive to the shortest route. You only have him for 6 chapters in total, which is not a lot of time to train. Then even if you do get him into the class, its stat boosts aren't that impressive since they're competing against his personal class which is also very strong. Not quite as good as Wyvern Lord, but still excellent. And his unique class also comes with Lancefaire instead of Axefaire and has magic use, which can be useful for throwing out an occasional Heal or Thoron.

 

He starts with C+ Axes, has a budding talent in Flying, and Mastermind. It is very fast to get him into Wyvern Rider/Lord. 

Even just Wyvern Rider is a clear upgrade from Death Knight. Better speed, still has 7 move but Flying is way better than being mounted on CF.

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On 10/19/2021 at 1:42 AM, lenticular said:

There are certainly some in my "If you want to" tier where it's a better idea than others, but it's a sufficiently strong class that you can't really have a calamitous Wyvern Lord. You can have mediocre Wyvern Lords and not worth the effort Wyvern Lords, but I can't see anyone being truly awful. Not in the same way that, for instance, Bishop Petra is truly abysmal.

Okay, but hear me out - a mage that actually doubles.

This really has me wondering how magic-oriented units with a relevant skill deficiency, and no magical combat arts, would perform in Wyvern Lord. Say Linhardt, Hanneman, or Mercedes. Would they deliver a simply bad performance, or a truly awful one? Are Wyvern Lord class attributes and a Bolt Axe enough to save these wayward mages from the pit of "worst build ever" territory? I may have to assess such a consideration on a future playthrough.

On 10/19/2021 at 12:58 AM, lenticular said:

Anyway, my own personal list would probably look something more like this:

Should I put this character on a wyvern?

  • Yes: Edelgard, Hilda, Petra, Seteth.
  • Probably: Annette, Cyril
  • If you want to: Everyone else.

I admit that my own personal list is probably not the most useful.

I do like the concept, but I would suggest introducing a "probably not" tier for the aforementioned mages and... actually, most of the magic units in the game (save for Annette and perhaps Hapi). Plus Bernadetta, but only because Wyvern Rider does nothing for her better than the more easily-attainable Falcon Knight. As sort of a "this unit will be actively worse in Wyvern Lord than in another build" disclaimer. As opposed to "if you want to"s like Ferdinand, Ashe, or Raphael, where there's plenty of room to debate whether Wyvern Lord is their best target class.

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1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Okay, but hear me out - a mage that actually doubles.

You've done it. You've broken the meta! Pure genius!

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

This really has me wondering how magic-oriented units with a relevant skill deficiency, and no magical combat arts, would perform in Wyvern Lord. Say Linhardt, Hanneman, or Mercedes. Would they deliver a simply bad performance, or a truly awful one? Are Wyvern Lord class attributes and a Bolt Axe enough to save these wayward mages from the pit of "worst build ever" territory? I may have to assess such a consideration on a future playthrough.

If you ever do a run with Bishop Petra and Wyvern Lord Linhardt then I absolutely want to hear about it. My assumption is that 8 movement, flight, canto, and a magic attack that has three range a base 19 might (inclusive of axefaire) is enough to be not-terrible (though definitely not worth the effort), but practical results trump theory.

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I do like the concept, but I would suggest introducing a "probably not" tier for the aforementioned mages and... actually, most of the magic units in the game (save for Annette and perhaps Hapi). Plus Bernadetta, but only because Wyvern Rider does nothing for her better than the more easily-attainable Falcon Knight. As sort of a "this unit will be actively worse in Wyvern Lord than in another build" disclaimer. As opposed to "if you want to"s like Ferdinand, Ashe, or Raphael, where there's plenty of room to debate whether Wyvern Lord is their best target class.

Yeah, there is definitely room for significantly more nuance than I had in my list. Though I'd probably call the hypothetical tier "if you really want to" because it amuses me. Honestly, though, a big part of why I didn't include a fourth tier is that I think it's difficult to decide where to draw the line. Like with Bernadetta, I agree with you that there's no compelling reason to put her on a wyvern, but at the same time, I'm sure that if you did so then she'd perform decently well. So, should you put her on a wyvern? Well, if you want to. There are a few other units that I think fall into similar territory, like Ignatz, Yuri or Alois. I wouldn't recommend putting any of them on a wyvern, but if anyone wanted to do so then I'm sure they'd turn out absolutely fine. You also run into issues of how to weigh ease of access to the class against perofmrance once you get there. And then maybe also  consider route differences. Maybe Crimson Flower Alois is "if you really want to" but other-routes Alois is "if you want to" because he has more time to overcome his flying weakness? It's non-trivial, anyway, which is why I kept my tier deliberately extremely broad.

2 hours ago, Objeckts said:

Even just Wyvern Rider is a clear upgrade from Death Knight. Better speed, still has 7 move but Flying is way better than being mounted on CF.

How is it a "clear" upgrade? There are ways in which Wyvern Rider is better, certainly, but also ways in which Death Knight is better. For instance, Death Knight can use non-flying battalions and adjutants; Death Knight has better HP, Str, Def and Res; Death Knight has Lancefaire instead of Axefaire which is relevant in a route where available named lances outnumber named axes, as well as Jeritza's better starting Prowess skill in lances and better lance combat arts; Death Knight has magic access (not a big deal, admitedly, but occasionally useful); etc.

Personally, I'd say that which is the better choice depends on personal taste and playing style, as well as what other units you're using. For me, at least, I find that having one or two flying units is hugely impactful but that going from, say, four fliers to five offers far less benefit. Flight is always still good, but once you already have a couple of fliers, adding more is no longer game changing. Plus, when you already have other fliers, you start to run into problems of access to strong flying battalions. And, well, I probably already have Edelgard and Petra as wyverns if I'm playing Crimson Flower.

Since it was pointed out that Jeritza starts out at C+ axes and not E like the source I was looking at claimed, I'm no longer particularly down on Wyvern as an option for him, but I also don't see it as a clear and objectively better choice.

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15 hours ago, lenticular said:

If you ever do a run with Bishop Petra and Wyvern Lord Linhardt then I absolutely want to hear about it. My assumption is that 8 movement, flight, canto, and a magic attack that has three range a base 19 might (inclusive of axefaire) is enough to be not-terrible (though definitely not worth the effort), but practical results trump theory.

Haha, maybe on my next CF run! I've done some weird builds (i.e. Warrior Leonie, Great Knight Petra, Dark Knight Ferdinand), but none yet that I'd consider actively bad. Maybe I'll play in "shuffle mode", where I figure out the ideal class for each character, then shuffle them around.

15 hours ago, lenticular said:

Yeah, there is definitely room for significantly more nuance than I had in my list. Though I'd probably call the hypothetical tier "if you really want to" because it amuses me. Honestly, though, a big part of why I didn't include a fourth tier is that I think it's difficult to decide where to draw the line. Like with Bernadetta, I agree with you that there's no compelling reason to put her on a wyvern, but at the same time, I'm sure that if you did so then she'd perform decently well. So, should you put her on a wyvern? Well, if you want to. There are a few other units that I think fall into similar territory, like Ignatz, Yuri or Alois. I wouldn't recommend putting any of them on a wyvern, but if anyone wanted to do so then I'm sure they'd turn out absolutely fine. You also run into issues of how to weigh ease of access to the class against perofmrance once you get there. And then maybe also  consider route differences. Maybe Crimson Flower Alois is "if you really want to" but other-routes Alois is "if you want to" because he has more time to overcome his flying weakness? It's non-trivial, anyway, which is why I kept my tier deliberately extremely broad.

Wyvern Rider/Lord Alois is basically a question of "how much do you value flying mobility"? Getting to D+ Flight, even through a bane, shouldn't be that tough. He can't use Gauntlets in the air, but he could still dismount to deliver a One-Two Punch.

As for Ignatz, a Wyvern build may actually be ideal if your principal intention for him is "Rallybot". More mobility to get to your Rally target (and then Canto to get away) is always desirable. 

Yuri, I have no idea how to make work on a Wyvern. But I've never actually trained Yuri up into anything, as his boon/bane collection scared me off. So he could probably put in work.

15 hours ago, lenticular said:

Since it was pointed out that Jeritza starts out at C+ axes and not E like the source I was looking at claimed, I'm no longer particularly down on Wyvern as an option for him, but I also don't see it as a clear and objectively better choice.

I think in some cases, Serenes lists their "chapter 1" ranks, even in areas that they auto-level. I recall the same issue with Flayn, where her listed Lance and Faith levels were well below what she actually offers when recruited at the end of chapter 6.

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2 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Haha, maybe on my next CF run! I've done some weird builds (i.e. Warrior Leonie, Great Knight Petra, Dark Knight Ferdinand), but none yet that I'd consider actively bad. Maybe I'll play in "shuffle mode", where I figure out the ideal class for each character, then shuffle them around

Speaking of weird builds I actually think Wyvern Lord Lysethia works a lot better than it gets credit for. Do I think she is the best wyvern in the game no I don't but I also don't think she is bottom of the barrel for wyverns. I do think you want a bit of sword training to for some of the sword combat arts but I was actually impressed  with her alot as a physical unit. Part of it might just be her reputation for being magic only but she actually does a good job in the physical department when put in that spot imo.

I also like Wyvern Lord a bit better for her over the other physical flying units purely for the extra strength stat boost.

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4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Haha, maybe on my next CF run! I've done some weird builds (i.e. Warrior Leonie, Great Knight Petra, Dark Knight Ferdinand), but none yet that I'd consider actively bad. Maybe I'll play in "shuffle mode", where I figure out the ideal class for each character, then shuffle them around.

He's a Bishop. She's a Wyvern Lord. But can they learn to do each other's jobs? Find out on an all new season of Class Swap, coming this December, only on Fox!

4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Wyvern Rider/Lord Alois is basically a question of "how much do you value flying mobility"? Getting to D+ Flight, even through a bane, shouldn't be that tough. He can't use Gauntlets in the air, but he could still dismount to deliver a One-Two Punch.

As for Ignatz, a Wyvern build may actually be ideal if your principal intention for him is "Rallybot". More mobility to get to your Rally target (and then Canto to get away) is always desirable. 

These are both Wyvern Rider builds more so than Wyvern Lord builds. Especially for the hypothetical flying rallybot Ignatz. I can see the argument for Wyvern Rider for that build (even if I'd never use it myself because I don't value rallies), but struggling through a flying bane to get into Wyvern Lord at the same time as trying to rush S rank Authority doesn't seem worth it. For Alois, if you do put him on a wyvern then there's not much reason not to try to train him up for Wyvern Lord, but I imagine he wouldn't get there until after level 30, during which time it would be a comparison between Wyvern Rider and War Master, which I find a tough sell. There's nothing inherently wrong with putting him on a wyvern and he'll perform well if you do; I just find it hard to justify when War Master is such an obvious choice.

1 hour ago, vikingsfan92 said:

Speaking of weird builds I actually think Wyvern Lord Lysethia works a lot better than it gets credit for. Do I think she is the best wyvern in the game no I don't but I also don't think she is bottom of the barrel for wyverns. I do think you want a bit of sword training to for some of the sword combat arts but I was actually impressed  with her alot as a physical unit. Part of it might just be her reputation for being magic only but she actually does a good job in the physical department when put in that spot imo.

This is a concrete example of the point I was making. Even seemingly "bad" Wyvern Lords are at least usable.

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1 hour ago, lenticular said:

He's a Bishop. She's a Wyvern Lord. But can they learn to do each other's jobs? Find out on an all new season of Class Swap, coming this December, only on Fox!

And make sure to stay tuned for its follow-up program, Extreme Makeover: Monastery Edition!

1 hour ago, lenticular said:

These are both Wyvern Rider builds more so than Wyvern Lord builds. Especially for the hypothetical flying rallybot Ignatz. I can see the argument for Wyvern Rider for that build (even if I'd never use it myself because I don't value rallies), but struggling through a flying bane to get into Wyvern Lord at the same time as trying to rush S rank Authority doesn't seem worth it. For Alois, if you do put him on a wyvern then there's not much reason not to try to train him up for Wyvern Lord, but I imagine he wouldn't get there until after level 30, during which time it would be a comparison between Wyvern Rider and War Master, which I find a tough sell. There's nothing inherently wrong with putting him on a wyvern and he'll perform well if you do; I just find it hard to justify when War Master is such an obvious choice.

Re: Wyvern Rider vs. Lord, my experience has been that, given enough time in Wyvern Rider, a unit's Flight skill level will climb enough through regular combat to at least give good odds at Wyvern Lord certification. That said, units with a bane might not gain enough through battle alone for this to work out. And Rallybot Ignatz presents a particular problem, as he won't be gaining Flight rank when he rallies (same for Rallybot Annette, granted). War Master is probably his stronger choice (in light of Faire and a crit-boost on gauntlet attacks, particularly One-Two Punch), and it's certainly lower-effort than Wyvern Lord, but there may be cases where he'd favor the mobility of wyvern classes.

2 hours ago, vikingsfan92 said:

Speaking of weird builds I actually think Wyvern Lord Lysethia works a lot better than it gets credit for. Do I think she is the best wyvern in the game no I don't but I also don't think she is bottom of the barrel for wyverns. I do think you want a bit of sword training to for some of the sword combat arts but I was actually impressed  with her alot as a physical unit. Part of it might just be her reputation for being magic only but she actually does a good job in the physical department when put in that spot imo.

I'm curious - was she mainly doing magical damage (i.e. Soulblade, Levin Sword, Bolt Axe), or physical (basically everything else)? Because I could see Lysithea doing really well in the former, although I'm skeptical of the latter.

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5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

And make sure to stay tuned for its follow-up program, Extreme Makeover: Monastery Edition!

Re: Wyvern Rider vs. Lord, my experience has been that, given enough time in Wyvern Rider, a unit's Flight skill level will climb enough through regular combat to at least give good odds at Wyvern Lord certification. That said, units with a bane might not gain enough through battle alone for this to work out. And Rallybot Ignatz presents a particular problem, as he won't be gaining Flight rank when he rallies (same for Rallybot Annette, granted). War Master is probably his stronger choice (in light of Faire and a crit-boost on gauntlet attacks, particularly One-Two Punch), and it's certainly lower-effort than Wyvern Lord, but there may be cases where he'd favor the mobility of wyvern classes.

I'm curious - was she mainly doing magical damage (i.e. Soulblade, Levin Sword, Bolt Axe), or physical (basically everything else)? Because I could see Lysithea doing really well in the former, although I'm skeptical of the latter.

It was a combination really kind of depended on what I needed at the time. If I remember right it was maddening crimson flower with the only new game plus feature I did was to insta recruit everyone with Byleth A supports.  Pathed her to get deathblow and str from the axe starting classes than pretty much went the sword route. I will say that her plain old physical damage was better than I thought it would be. Yes soul blade and the magical stuff was her best part but she did pretty well on enemy phase too for damage and taking damage.  Don't get me wrong she is not the physically strongest wyvern but I think she preforms closer to her competition than people think.  And honestly I kind of view wyvern as probably the best melee class to get one shots and dip on so even if its get a magical one shot and leave that still puts her in decent spot imo as a wyvern lord.  I think she is more towards the middle than the bottom personally.

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While I never did try out Wyvern Lord Hapi, I have done Wyvern Lord Annette in my previous Blue Lions run. She was useful for at least providing strong chip damage at enemies like Paladins especially with Lancebreaker. I know that with a forged Hammer she can OHKO Fortress Knights with Lightning Axe (really wish they gave that to Hapi. She would have had a niche in using axes even when not a flier). 
 

Other than that, she can pretty much 2HK most other enemies with either Lightning Axe or even Bolt Axe. Her magic stat was a bit lacking from my experience since the class does decrease her magic growth a bit. She was perfectly serviceable in that class if you want to ignore her spell list. It’s funny that hers is the exact same as Yuri’s except that Yuri is much faster and could still double with these spells provided that he has something like speed +2 and weight -3 backing him up which he can easily achieve.

While off topic, simply certifying someone into a Wyvern Rider has it’s benefits for mages since it will bring their strength stat all the way up to 18 which helps reduces the overall equipment weight of said weapon or tome. So Dark Flier Annette or even Dark Flier Flayn, Constance, Marianne and other females benefit form certifying in that class just for the strength boost.

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Is Dimitri really that great of Wyvern Lord? I mean yes, he’s excellent if you get the class, but from bitter experience, his bane and time skip trauma makes it very difficult. I feel like he’s more “ Ok “ than “ Great “.

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1 hour ago, ZeManaphy said:

Is Dimitri really that great of Wyvern Lord? I mean yes, he’s excellent if you get the class, but from bitter experience, his bane and time skip trauma makes it very difficult. I feel like he’s more “ Ok “ than “ Great “.

I think it’s because once you get his axe and flying rank high enough then it becomes worth the time. Though to be fair, his bane in axes does make it a tall mountain for him to climb. In my opinion it’s probably not worth it because he has battalion vantage + battalion wrath to more than make up for the lack of movement and flexibility compared to a flier.

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On 10/24/2021 at 1:30 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Yuri, I have no idea how to make work on a Wyvern. But I've never actually trained Yuri up into anything, as his boon/bane collection scared me off. So he could probably put in work.

When I watched a "everyone is in a class associated with their banes" run, Wyvern Lord Yuri was one of the strongest units. He needs more training in axe/flying than most wyverns, but on the other hand the authority boon is cool. And Wyvern Rider, it cannot be stressed enough, is just way too forgiving a class to qualify for. If you're planning to go for D+ axes anyway (for Death Blow), then getting to C axe / C flying for a ~45% certification rate is just another 420 exp... easily gained even with a bane. And from there it's not too had to reach B+/B for Wyvern Lord, especially with your class pushing you along. Like... maybe you get there a level or two later, but that's okay.

I'd go so far as to argue that it's easier to qualify for Wyvern Rider with two banes than it is to qualify for Sniper/Swordmaster/Warrior/Grappler/Bishop/Warlock while being neutral in the relevant skill. With only one bane it's easier still, and therefore...

8 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

Is Dimitri really that great of Wyvern Lord? I mean yes, he’s excellent if you get the class, but from bitter experience, his bane and time skip trauma makes it very difficult. I feel like he’s more “ Ok “ than “ Great “.

Yeah, it really is quite easy to get Dimitri to Wyvern. If you normally get him Death Blow (I do!) then you've done a significant chunk of the work already - see Yuri, but now the flying is neutral instead of a bane. And since Dimitri is a stat monster who can crush things in any class (either with his player phase or his Battalion Wrath/Vantage build), doesn't it make sense to give him high mobility so he can reach things more easily to crush them? I'd argue that puts Wyvern into a top three class choice for him (Paladin, of course, is a classic choice as well, and may often be preferred just because AM is light on flying battalions, but it really does depend on that... if you're only using 0-1 other wyverns, then I'd argue it becomes Dimitri's best class by quite a bit, bane be damned).

 

16 hours ago, vikingsfan92 said:

It was a combination really kind of depended on what I needed at the time. If I remember right it was maddening crimson flower with the only new game plus feature I did was to insta recruit everyone with Byleth A supports.  Pathed her to get deathblow and str from the axe starting classes than pretty much went the sword route. I will say that her plain old physical damage was better than I thought it would be. Yes soul blade and the magical stuff was her best part but she did pretty well on enemy phase too for damage and taking damage.  Don't get me wrong she is not the physically strongest wyvern but I think she preforms closer to her competition than people think.  And honestly I kind of view wyvern as probably the best melee class to get one shots and dip on so even if its get a magical one shot and leave that still puts her in decent spot imo as a wyvern lord.  I think she is more towards the middle than the bottom personally.

This all makes sense to me, yep. Let's be clear: Lysithea has the worst strength of any unit, even compared to other mages. But that wyvern rider class minimum is just so darn high, that it makes physicals a valid option for anyone in it, especially if (as you did) you get her Death Blow as well. I certainly don't think Wyvern is any mage's best build (except possibly Annette), but it's valid and can perform, particularly if you have a magical combat art to use as an option.

Edited by Dark Holy Elf

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