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Birthright Hard/Classic Ironman run. My first ironman!


squirmonkey
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Hello all!

I've been really curious lately about players who play Fire Emblem games in an Ironman style, and I thought that the best way to learn more about it would be to try it myself. I'm playing through Birthright on Hard (I enjoy Lunatic when I'm not doing ironman, but I'm not good enough to ironman lunatic in a sane amount of time), with the following rules: 

1) No reloading the game for any reason (unit death, loss of loot, unfavorable level up, etc). In particular, this means that once I press Fight on the chapter, I'm seeing it through to the end. However, losing units before level 6 (where they come back) is fine, and they can still be used. 
2) Game over = delete save file 
3) No grinding. I know I'm doing Birthright, but I hate grinding. So we're not doing any of the optional levels, DLC chapters, scouting, or castle defenses. So I'll be doing only the main chapters and the paralogues that I choose to do.
4) No DLC stuff. So no dark falcon, dread fighter, or any of the rest of it. 
5) No visiting other castles or using other online content. So no buying skills or units from others, and no visiting to pick up food or minerals. However I am allowed to use whatever I can get from my own castle, including any random item drops. 
6) No capturing/prison. I don't like this mechanic, so I'm not using it. 

Okay I think that covers the rules. I'm a little ways into the run, so let me start by talking about how it's going so far!

I've made a male +Str/-Lck Avatar. I know that the female avatar tends to be stronger in Fates, but being male myself I usually prefer a male avatar.

Chapters 1-6: Embarrassingly, I got myself killed by a swarm of mages the first time through Chapter 5, so I did the whole thing over again, and sacrificed Kaze early to make a nice easy path through the level, knowing he'd be back. Not the most auspicious start, but nothing much to complain about. I put most of my XP into my avatar, and he's gotten pretty good levels so far. 

Chapter 7: This level was fairly straightforward. I sent Kaze right to pick up the first chest while the rest of the team fought down through the bend. We held out at the chokepoint I indicated in the diagram below to withstand the attack from Silas and his cavaliers, that went off basically without a hitch. Then we cut right just in time to catch the outlaw who'd taken the loot from the chest in the center, and cleaned up the stragglers

image.png.e0522c949957c5289aabf2aedad98ff5.png

 

Chapter 8: I did Chapter 8 before doing Paralogue 1, just cuz I felt like it. This chapter was pretty uninteresting. We swept through and killed anyone without any real problems, danger, or moments of tactical relevance. 

Paralogue 1 (Mozu): Next picked up Mozu. I know there's some mixed opinions about Mozu, but I tend to be pro Mozu so most of this chapter was spent babying her to get XP in Attack Stance. Nothing too exciting happened except Kaze stealing a bunch of kills with low % crits. 

Chapter 9: This was the chapter where I started to get why people do Ironman runs. The start of the level went off without a hitch, but I got caught off guard by the reinforcements from the right side. That sudden feeling of "I have one try to fix this, so let's make a good plan" was thrilling, clearly that's a big part of the appeal of playing Ironman. With a good bit of pair up / transfer chaining, I was able to re-arrange that side into a defensive formation fast enough for the reinforcements to not be too big an issue. I got my recruits and took the chest loot off the thieves and moved on. 

Chapter 10: Here's where I made my first big mistake. While making what I thought was a simple defensive line against what I thought was a collection of ninjas, I missed an archer. Seconds later Hinoka was gone. Of course, she's too important to actually die in the plot, but for my purposes she's toast, and I imagine her gravely wounded for plot purposes (This was especially amusing when she was threatening Zola in the next level). Making the sting of this loss even worse, I lost the Guard Naginata she was holding. Because apparently we're too good to loot the bodies of our fallen comrades, even if they're still alive /shrug. Apart from this slip up, the chapter wasn't too troublesome. This was also the chapter where I remembered I needed to get Kaze and Avatar to support A pretty urgently, and started having them roll around together. My +Str Avatar and Kaze make a decent team, so this wasn't too limiting. 
Lost: Hinoka

Chapter 11: Wow I forgot how hard this level was. I made the classic mistake on this level and played it too slow. Then I got caught by surprise when the entire level collapsed on me. After a few moments of doom and gloom "how can I survive this" thinking, I came up with a plan which I just barely got away with.

image.png.e310db29a5177234d307f95baa129dd8.png

We fell all the way back to the first whirlwind and used it plus the fact that the fliers can't stand on the impassible tiles to create a workable chokepoint (the red circle). Because the fliers could go over the divider, I had to put body blockers in every space along the divider, as well as in the purple spaces, to serve as my front line. The plan was to assume that enemies would come at us from the blue direction and that if any tried coming from the red direction, the whirlwind would slow them down enough that I could pick them off with an archer. As it turned out, the pathfinding preferred never to attempt the red path, and only attacked from the top and left. Now I had to pick out my placements. For the frontline (purple) I needed units who were tanky, but not fast/strong enough to kill an enemy in one round, so that they wouldn't get chipped to death by counter-killing their enemies too quickly. In the end I landed on Avatar+Kaze in one slot, using the Dragonstone to avoid double counter attacks, and Rinkah+Oboro in the other slot, very defensive but not quite strong enough to finish the enemies. Behind them were my archers, Mozu and Takumi in the green squares, helping to thin the horde more quickly. Finally in the yellow I just needed to have two units there at all times, to make sure no fliers could get past the boundary. Most of the time Azura and Reina stood there. 

This plan worked beautifully for one round, but then I realized there were 3 units alive with ranged attacks. A dragon with a hand axe, a dragon with Thunder, and the boss with (I think) a steel star axe. The hand axe wasn't too big a problem, I baited him up by giving him a safe shot at Azura, which he took, and then I swapped her for an archer to kill him. The other two were a bigger problem. They were too powerful to let them take shots at the units in the yellow squares, and I didn't have strong enough units to make everyone who would be in range able to survive the attacks. I couldn't find a solution that didn't involve sending someone out to kill them, making a hole in the formation, or just letting them tear us to pieces. In the end, I used both charges of my Rescue staff sending Takumi and Reina out to dispatch those units, and then calling them back to fill the gaps in the formation. The rescue staff was of course sad to lose, but it seemed my best way out. Another beauty of the ironman run, I doubt I would have used the rescue here if I'd thought I could restart. Rather I used it because it seemed like to not use it guaranteed losing my precious units. Overall, a thrilling level, and a great experience.

Chapter 12: Okay so I underestimated how quickly Xander would move towards the chest, and played this level too slowly (noticing a theme there? I sure am). Down a flier, I couldn't use the really degenerate strategy of just sneaking someone in to the chest at the last second and flying the Avatar to the exit. So I tried fighting my way along the path, but it just wasn't fast enough. As I approached the chest, I realized that once Xander arrived I'd be in trouble and that I didn't have time for the dragon vein, I'd have to fly Avatar to the exit. So I loaded him up on Subaki and gunned for the exit. The rest pressed on towards the chest. But by the time I'd reached the chest, it was clear that whoever I opened it with wouldn't be able to outrun Xander before he collapsed down on him. Rather than try to fix it, I opted to retreat and fight another day. The retreat went fine, but I didn't get what was in the chest
Lost: Whatever was in that chest

So that's where I am so far! If you have thoughts/questions/suggestions, I'd love to hear them! If you love Ironman games, I'd really like to hear what you love about them. And if you have cool ironman stories of your own, please share!

 

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32 minutes ago, squirmonkey said:

So that's where I am so far! If you have thoughts/questions/suggestions, I'd love to hear them! If you love Ironman games, I'd really like to hear what you love about them. And if you have cool ironman stories of your own, please share!

Ironmans have always felt like a cool concept to implement in Fire Emblem, even if the idea is really simple. It's an odd feeling of excitement when you have to be extra carful with your strategy, now that your actions have much deeper consequences. Unfortunately, I've struggled to find FE games that I'd find to be worth ironmaning. I've only done a run on Sacred Stones and Shadow Dragon. Sacred Stones is an easy pick for ironmans, since it's a pretty easy game. Shadow Dragon was originally designed to be ironman'd , so it's the perfect ironman challenge, at least in my book. The vast difficulty options allow you to settle on just how challenging you want that run to be, and the ability to make strong forges and reclassing allows you to get away with losing plenty of strong units, even on Hard 5. It's pretty hard, but you're always given just enough resources to make a comeback out of a tough situation. It's such a fun game to ironman in my opinion. I've done one on H4, partially using silly units like Bord, Cord, and Roger over Cain and Abel. Of course, Bord died on chapter 19, and I was genuinely really sad about it. Bord of all people, made me sad to see die. That's the effect ironmans can have on people. I remember losing Jagen to a crit on chapter 5. A bit uncalled for, but I was ready to deal with it. It was a super hard turn because he was trying to wall a bridge of archers. I barely survived that turn, and had to some crazy strats to get out of it. It was very thrilling. One of reasons why I love Shadow Dragon so much is because how it's designed to be naturally challenging, yet lets get away with playing in so many different ways while still keeping its charm as a classic strategy game. But enough about that game. What about the rest? I don't know which ones I should ironman. FE7 has so many cheap moments that can lead to instant game overs. FE10 also has a ton of instant game over scenarios. FE9's alright. It'd feel similar to Sacred Stones I'm guessing. FE6 is a game I've heard can be good for ironmans, but I'm afraid of losing all my units to bad rng. I've gotten plenty of deaths from one too many misses in that game. Maybe one day. Don't get me started on Three Houses ironman. I might just stick to other challenges for those games. I'd love to try an FE12 ironman, but that sounds way too stressful, considering that I tend to play on maniac, and Marth or Kris can easily die there. I'm not sure if I plan to revisit birthright, but I imagine it'd be a decent one to ironman. I recently did a full reclassed run, and that was fun. Sniper Ryoma and Swordmaster Takumi were a sight to behold. I think I really love ironmans in general because of how I naturally play with such a careful mindset, so ironmans help me feel than need to survive out of any map no matter what. But then I get afraid of getting an instant game over, and I get angry at the idea of wasting a lot of time. If you post it publicly, it can be a fun overall story to share, but when playing alone, you just feel stupid that you lost all that progress. At least, that's how I feel. Good luck on yours. I think you'll have fun, until you inevitably get your Corrin entrapped from the strategists in Iago's chapter and get slaughtered by the herd of heroes and berserkers next to him. Jk.....I hope. 

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Hey thanks! I'll keep an eye out for those strategists 😉 

You know, I had Shadow Dragon when I was a kid, but I never played it because I found the graphics so off-putting compared to FE7 and 8, which I adored. Maybe if I end up enjoying this Ironman I'll pick up a copy of Shadow Dragon again and see how I do at a blind Ironman 😰

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16 hours ago, squirmonkey said:

So that's where I am so far! If you have thoughts/questions/suggestions, I'd love to hear them! If you love Ironman games, I'd really like to hear what you love about them. And if you have cool ironman stories of your own, please share!

Ironmans are cool. I really should make that the way I play a new Fire Emblem game for the first time, excluding ones that are actively hostile to it like FE16.

15 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

I'd love to try an FE12 ironman, but that sounds way too stressful, considering that I tend to play on maniac, and Marth or Kris can easily die there.

Sounds like it could be fun. I haven't played the DS games in a while, but honestly I've been feeling like I should recently. FE6 is probably not as ironman-friendly as FE11, but I would say its reasonably so, definitely a good idea to try sometime.

As said before, ironmans are something special. I would actually say they're one of the more unique things about Fire Emblem, so it's a shame that a lot of the games seem to shy away from them in their design. You really can't get a personal story with the game like you can with ironmans when you reset on every death. Dwindling teams lead you to try new characters, who will unexpectedly become MVPs, giving you a real emotional attachment to them which you just can't get even with 50,000 supports.

Good luck on your run, Mr. Monkey.

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Alright! Since my last post I've discovered a few things, so a quick recap of those first:

1) When someone dies you actually keep their stuff! It just silently goes back to the convoy. So I am happy about that, at least!
2) I forgot about Reina during the opera house chapter, I could have definitely gotten to the chest if I'd used her. 
3) I was in the wrong forum! 😅 Thanks for moving me.
4) I have a limit to how much I can post per day, so if you respond to me, and I don't say anything to you, this is probably why. 

Okay two more chapters done, let's go through them

Chapter 13: This one went off basically without a hitch. We had one close call with Hana getting nearly one-shot despite a 14% hit chance, and Silas got into a little controlled trouble near the village in the top right, but otherwise this went very smoothly. Orochi pulled Camilla pretty safely, and the retainers and the rest of the rear guard fell pretty quickly as well. We got all the treasure, not too much of interest happened. I did find myself using Sakura's Rally Luck a bit in this level, to take the edge off some low percent crit chances on enemies I wanted to pull. By the end of the level I am feeling like Hana is not keeping up with the rest of the party, she doesn't have the strength or defense to justify continuing to field her, especially in a frontline position. So she's probably benched from here. Subaki is also falling behind in levels, but with Hinoka gone, I'm still hoping to fix him. I also want his kid, in the hopes that she'll help me out on the fliers front. 

Chapter 14: This chapter is brought to you by the letter R, as in Retreat and let Ryoma handle it. I got sharply overwhelmed right at the beginning of this level by the cavalry charge from both sides. I think I slightly overused Guard Stance, as I found that in a few places I didn't have quite as many actions as I wished for clearing enemies who'd gotten close. There was definitely a critical moment where I had to throw Ryoma to the wolves and hope he'd be fine (he was, he's a monster) so the rest of the party could back off, or else I'd just lose too many of them. Kagero was spared by a lucky miss, and Silas survived a volley of attacks with 2 HP, justifying my decision to cook a defense meal before this battle. Once the outside was clear, this level turned from staggeringly difficult to lol eztime training mode. Orochi pulled and cleared the Bolt Axe guy, Rinkah cleared the entrance to the castle with basically no issue, and the dragon veins softened everyone else up. I used the weakened enemies as a chance to bring Subaki up to level, and he gained 5 levels over the course of the castle. Would have been more but he couldn't hurt the Generals 😓. They weren't incredible levels, but they were enough to bring him back to usable (he entered this chapter at Level 8, much too low for this point of the game). Though I used Ryoma in this level (and I'm glad I did), I'm currently still keeping Scarlet and Reina in reserve, both because they can't earn support ranks, and because even if they don't get any XP in the next few chapters they'll still be useful, so there's no need to break them out yet, they're my insurance against losing one of my growing units. In the end though, with a little luck and some Ryoma BS, this chapter is clear with no losses!

That's where I'm at now, more soon!

 

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On 10/20/2021 at 1:08 PM, AnonymousSpeed said:

Sounds like it could be fun. I haven't played the DS games in a while, but honestly I've been feeling like I should recently

If it wasn't obvious by my short essay of SD, I'm a huge DSFE fan. I'm a fan of the Archanean games in general, but the DS games are like an addiction to me. I'd say go for any playthrough of them again if you're interested. It's main downside for many is the graphics and it's simplicity. But if that doesn't bother you, the games are a blast to revisit. I think the DS games get more fun the more you replay them because of the amount of ways you could play these games despite them being remakes of really old FE games. Endless reclassing might make the characters feel less unique, but it's pretty fun to use on a gameplay perspective. If you decide to play them again soon, I'd suggest you try your own SD ironman, assuming you enjoy ironmans. 

On 10/20/2021 at 1:08 PM, AnonymousSpeed said:

FE6 is probably not as ironman-friendly as FE11, but I would say its reasonably so, definitely a good idea to try sometime

I've only played FE6 twice so far. It's a game I want to love, but the game hates me. I tend to miss so often, that it frustrates me. From a personal experience, javelins and hand axes felt worthless, because I never got them to land hits. Don't get me wrong. FE6 is fun most of the time. It's the most challenging and offers the most tactical planning out of the GBA games, but holy Marty do I feel like my strats get thrown out of the window from rng. I think you posted on unpopular opinions on how axes are underrated in FE6. I wish I could agree, but my luck in FE6 is so bad that I use swords over lances in fear of misses. This is why I'd love an FE6 remake. They literally just need to make the game have better hit rates, and I'd instantly call it an amazing FE game (top 5 probably), even if it still has the enemy staves shenanigans. What I'm trying to say is that I fear that an ironman would get ruined for me when I lose a unit to the 55 hit steel lance missing and getting someone like Lance or Allen killed, and then any other unit I try to use also misses and dies. Since you seem to be a big Binding Blade guy, you mind giving me advice on how to make the game a better experience to go through? Mages have great accuracy, but there's not enough guiding rings to justify training an army of them. Maybe I'm just not seeing things right. I used to not be a big New Mystery guy, but now it's my favorite. I hear a lot about Binding Blade being well designed and strategic, but I think I just rage quit too easily when I miss another Echidna hit and then get 2 people berserk'd at the same time. And this is coming from a Thracia fan. I did really like using units like Shin, Zeiss, Lugh, Melody, and even S rank tome Clarine. That was really fun.

I'm considering doing another LP over the winter season (once Fall courses end for me, Calc 3 is scary sometimes), and I'm considering between FE6, FE7, and FE12. Maybe I'll do an FE6 ironman LP, but I'm not sure if I'll make it very far. Then again, it's probably easier than New mystery, where one mishap on the Altea arc can cost you 3 units. 

2 hours ago, squirmonkey said:

I am feeling like Hana is not keeping up with the rest of the party

Aww that sucks. I was hoping to see Hana strike down Garon. Funnily enough, my recent Birthright playthrough had a Hana that capped strength, but never got HP. Like, ever. Her endgame HP was like 30. I reclassed her to a sniper from being with Takumi to avoid counterattacks. Pretty funny.

2 hours ago, squirmonkey said:

This chapter is brought to you by the letter R, as in Retreat and let Ryoma handle it.

Something tells me this is going to be a reoccurring partnership, like with many youtubers with Raid Shadow Legends. 

2 hours ago, squirmonkey said:

I'm currently still keeping Scarlet and Reina in reserve, both because they can't earn support ranks, and because even if they don't get any XP in the next few chapters they'll still be useful, so there's no need to break them out yet, they're my insurance against losing one of my growing units.

I don't quite remember how strong Reina is, but Scarlet is really good. Not only are her bases really good, but she even has good growths. Also, the wyvern class is mostly exclusive to her on Birthright, so that's cool. 

Sounds like you're having a fun time so far. Tough calls, but no major deaths or anything that's destroying you. That sounds like the best type of ironman experience. Of course, losing one amazing unit is usually a big part of the ironman experience, so I await Ryoma's demise. Good luck.

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2 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

If it wasn't obvious by my short essay of SD, I'm a huge DSFE fan. I'm a fan of the Archanean games in general, but the DS games are like an addiction to me. I'd say go for any playthrough of them again if you're interested. It's main downside for many is the graphics and it's simplicity. But if that doesn't bother you, the games are a blast to revisit. I think the DS games get more fun the more you replay them because of the amount of ways you could play these games despite them being remakes of really old FE games. Endless reclassing might make the characters feel less unique, but it's pretty fun to use on a gameplay perspective. If you decide to play them again soon, I'd suggest you try your own SD ironman, assuming you enjoy ironmans. 

The graphics and simplicity don't bother me much. The stop-motion-esque models put me off at first, but they've kinda grown on me. They have their own weird charm. I'm definitely interested in doing an FE11 ironman, so if you have a difficulty you'd recommend, I'd definitely appreciate it.

2 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

I've only played FE6 twice so far. It's a game I want to love, but the game hates me. I tend to miss so often, that it frustrates me. From a personal experience, javelins and hand axes felt worthless, because I never got them to land hits. Don't get me wrong. FE6 is fun most of the time. It's the most challenging and offers the most tactical planning out of the GBA games, but holy Marty do I feel like my strats get thrown out of the window from rng. I think you posted on unpopular opinions on how axes are underrated in FE6. I wish I could agree, but my luck in FE6 is so bad that I use swords over lances in fear of misses. This is why I'd love an FE6 remake. They literally just need to make the game have better hit rates, and I'd instantly call it an amazing FE game (top 5 probably), even if it still has the enemy staves shenanigans.

Well, while I personally think the FE6 hitrates are mostly fine, there are patches which adjust the hit rates. A lot of them come with a bunch of other changes though. Maybe I'll make a "minimal changes" patch some day. From what other, smarter people have said, FE6 is a game of risk minimization- the more misses your strategy can absorb, the better it is. This is a lot different from Conquest or what I've heard of FE12, where there are extremely precise but reliable solutions.

2 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

Since you seem to be a big Binding Blade guy, you mind giving me advice on how to make the game a better experience to go through? Mages have great accuracy, but there's not enough guiding rings to justify training an army of them. Maybe I'm just not seeing things right. I used to not be a big New Mystery guy, but now it's my favorite. I hear a lot about Binding Blade being well designed and strategic, but I think I just rage quit too easily when I miss another Echidna hit and then get 2 people berserk'd at the same time. And this is coming from a Thracia fan. I did really like using units like Shin, Zeiss, Lugh, Melody, and even S rank tome Clarine. That was really fun.

Woah now, don't go assuming I'm good just because I like the game. I'm terrible at Fire Emblem, though I do have some tips that can get you to Chapter 7, at which point I usually just go cry in the corner.

Use Marcus liberally to set up kills, or even just to finish dangerous enemies. He can tank a decent number of enemies, and if you're really desperate, try and train his axe rank so he can use Halberd. Personally, I think it's better to put the halberd on someone else, since Marcus is a strong contributor without it.

Javelins and hand-axes are actually very bad in FE6, it's a lot more focused on range-locked player-phase combat. This makes myrmidons and snipers actually good (but archers are still bad).

Don't turtle. The ambush spawns are largely placed where they'll screw you over if you're going slow. The chapter 6 ambush spawns are actually near the boss throne, so if you're going to be taking time to open all the chests, maybe give that room some space. They don't spawn for that many turns.

Bors isn't terrible for choking early points, provided he doesn't face any fighters. He and Marcus can hold down a lot of Chapter 3.

In an ironman setting, it might actually be better to just let Trek and Zealot die. It's sad, because I like them, but Chapter 7 is usually the point where I fail the most spectacularly. I'll admit that it's a bit of a harsh bump in difficulty, although I think odd difficulty curves actually work well for ironmans.

Mages are indeed very accurate, one of your few accurate unit types. Even if you don't promote them all, apply magic liberally- Lugh is a lot better than Lilina anyway.

3 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

I'm considering doing another LP over the winter season (once Fall courses end for me, Calc 3 is scary sometimes), and I'm considering between FE6, FE7, and FE12. Maybe I'll do an FE6 ironman LP, but I'm not sure if I'll make it very far. Then again, it's probably easier than New mystery, where one mishap on the Altea arc can cost you 3 units.

Do an FE12 PMU, I already have some ideas. FE12 sounds like a thrilling game, I should get around to that too. Thracia as well.

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The time-limited posting restriction should be gone by now, so have at it!  Don't spam the forums and all, but don't worry about being stuck at the glacial pace of a post a day!

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5 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

The graphics and simplicity don't bother me much. The stop-motion-esque models put me off at first, but they've kinda grown on me. They have their own weird charm. I'm definitely interested in doing an FE11 ironman, so if you have a difficulty you'd recommend, I'd definitely appreciate it.

Since there's a lot of difficulties to choose from, I'll talk about H3 through H5. 

Hard 3: This one is seen by most fans as the equivalent of the standard hard mode for an FE game. Enemies can be a bit tough, but don't pose too much of a threat like in most lunatic tier difficulties. The early game will actually be quite a bit challenging for people who aren't too experienced with the game,  but it gradually gets easier, as enemies get stronger very slowly. The main difficulty spike in H3 is on chapter 20, where enemies start using silver weapons and are mostly all promoted. Pick this difficulty if you think you're going to lose units quite often. The enemies are never strong enough where using low tier units after losing better ones will be ridiculously hard. FE1 was designed around frequently losing units after all. It's why I can get away with using someone like Bord for so long despite getting pretty bad levels. Forged items are your best friend, especially in ironmans, so weapon ranks will make up for poor bases/growths, making someone like base Hardin OHKO a midgame cavalier with enough money spent on a Ridersbane. Minerva is a solid unit in H3, tanking plenty of hits while only needing one speedwing to reliably double enemies for a long time. Her Hauteclere or a silver axe can 1RKO enemies like this easily, so getting her will make things a lot less challenging if you got 20 people killed by then. @squirmonkey, if you play Shadow Dragon, I'd suggest this or Hard 2. Blind ironmans are definitely a risky thing to try, but if there's any game to do it in, it's this one. I might say Hard 2 is best, since the final boss can be pretty brutal on Hard 3, but maybe I'll make another suggestion when the rest of the Birthright LP is done. 

Hard 4: While not too much different than H3, H4 is noticeably more difficult, especially in the early game. Play this one if Hard 3 stats seem just a bit too small for you, and you want an upgrade to a challenge. This is the one I went for in an ironman. Weapons used are mostly the same in Hard 4. The only difference is that enemies in Hard 4 use brave weapons on endgame, while they stick with silver in H3. Looking at my H3 PMU, you can probably decide if the enemy stats you see seem up your alley or if you want some more challenge. You would probably using good units unlike me, so it'll definitely be easier. Decide based on just how much weight you want your actions to hold. I think H4 is best for you, but I haven't seen you game before, so I could easily be wrong. Ahh you'll be fiiiine.

Hard 5: This is for the big boys. While totally doable even with frequent deaths, it requires much more careful planning with reclasses and forges. Play this one if you're confident that you're rarely ever going to lose anyone, but are ready to adapt quickly should you lose someone like Jagen in chapter 4 and want to experience major depression upon losing top tiers. The early game will be brutal, but if you make it past that point, it will calm down. However, the difficulty will just right back up in chapter 10, as enemies will immediately begin using silver weapons, making your ability to survive 2 rounds of combat from enemies nearly impossible. Each action counts, and every unit is susceptible to death at any turn. Well, until you use General Sedgar/Wolf I guess. Since you stated that you haven't played the DS games in a while, this one should wait until later. 

5 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Well, while I personally think the FE6 hitrates are mostly fine, there are patches which adjust the hit rates. A lot of them come with a bunch of other changes though. Maybe I'll make a "minimal changes" patch some day. From what other, smarter people have said, FE6 is a game of risk minimization- the more misses your strategy can absorb, the better it is. This is a lot different from Conquest or what I've heard of FE12, where there are extremely precise but reliable solutions.

If you made a patch, I'd ask for a bit of an increase on ultimate weapon uses. Maybe make it 30 uses? If you want to pay respects to Thraica, you'd make all effect staves have 100% accuracy, both you and the enemy. Niime would silence the crap out of those late-game berserk spammers. Maybe that's a bit excessive though. 

I suppose the approach of having to strategize around the notion of expected misses is a big part of Binding Blade, and that might explain why I have trouble adjusting to it. As you said, Conquest and New Mystery play quite differently. Those two game are actually both within my top 3 FE games, both being S tier on a tier list for me. They are indeed, very precise games, but have reliable strategy. This naturally fits in with my playstyle nicely, so I have an easy time adapting to its mechanics and strategic mindset required. It might be why I can handle Reverse Lunatic on New Mystery with only some resets, but then get stumped in a single chapter like Arcadia, even though something like FE12 chapter 12 on R Lunatic is objectively much much harder, requirement near perfect play to survive with everyone recruited and alive. 

5 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Woah now, don't go assuming I'm good just because I like the game. I'm terrible at Fire Emblem,

What? Impossible. You like Cord. That automatically means you know what you're doing. 

It's nice to hear that I'm not just stupid for making a statement about 1-2 weapons not being too handy. I liked using swordmasters and snipers/bow knights in FE6, so it's nice to hear that it's not blasphemous to think that they're neat in that game.  I don't like it much when an FE game is often range emblem, like in FE7 HHM or FE9 maniac. 

5 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Do an FE12 PMU, I already have some ideas. FE12 sounds like a thrilling game, I should get around to that too. Thracia as well.

Funnily enough, I'd say both Thracia and New Mystery are some of the most unforgiving games in the franchise. As for a potential FE12 PMU, it makes sense. It'd be a direct continuation of my current PMU. It'd be more interactive and probably more fun than an ironman, considering how fun using reclassed low tiers are in DSFE. I would need to make specific rules, since I'd need quite a couple of free units (Malicia for hammerne and healing, and Feena for dance strats) and I can't start benching people as early as chapter 1. It's super thrilling, and it's so rewarding when you make cool strats to save up on those precious rescue staff uses. Turns are difficult, but almost never unfair. You have to remain on guard, and any mistake can lead to a death, but the frequent save points keep resets from being too frustrating. Learning the map and how to use classes and enemy AI to your advantage can make the world of a difference. As I said, the DS games get more fun the more you replay them. In New Mystery, it's easy to learn new things each time, and you'll start making new strats to play better as you get more familiarized with it. Thracia's a funny game.

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9 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

Since there's a lot of difficulties to choose from, I'll talk about H3 through H5.

Started a Hard 3 run. Already lost Darros and Abel.

9 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

If you made a patch, I'd ask for a bit of an increase on ultimate weapon uses. Maybe make it 30 uses? If you want to pay respects to Thraica, you'd make all effect staves have 100% accuracy, both you and the enemy. Niime would silence the crap out of those late-game berserk spammers. Maybe that's a bit excessive though. 

Not sure what to do about status staves, but it and weapon uses are a possibility.

9 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

What? Impossible. You like Cord. That automatically means you know what you're doing. 

Yeah, I'm screwing up.

9 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

Funnily enough, I'd say both Thracia and New Mystery are some of the most unforgiving games in the franchise. As for a potential FE12 PMU, it makes sense. It'd be a direct continuation of my current PMU. It'd be more interactive and probably more fun than an ironman, considering how fun using reclassed low tiers are in DSFE. I would need to make specific rules, since I'd need quite a couple of free units (Malicia for hammerne and healing, and Feena for dance strats) and I can't start benching people as early as chapter 1.

It'd probably be necessary, since my pick wouldn't even join until halfway through the game.

So as to not further monopolize the thread, I should note that I am still looking forward to the next Birthright ironman update.

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6 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

So as to not further monopolize the thread, I should note that I am still looking forward to the next Birthright ironman update.

Haha I don't mind! I'm happy to see the discussion, even if it is a bit off topic. 

Okay two more chapters down, here's how it's going

Chapter 15: Boy this one is eassyyyyy. Between the relatively weak enemies, and the bolt axe and beast killer from the previous chapter, it seems like they just wanted you to have fun mowing people down in this level. The reinforcements were a little annoying, but since the enemies were almost entirely ineffective against my frontline, they didn't end up causing me much sweat. The dragon veins are just silly, I don't know why you'd need them. Finished the chapter up without any issues, dealt out some nice XP, and got on my way. Kaze does his cool A support thing and lives, so that's out of the way. 

After Chapter 15, Rinkah is my first to level 20, so she promotes. I pick Oni Chieftain because I want the extra Mag for her to use with the Bolt Axe. I don't think I'll probably waste time levelling her in scrolls since she's already so destructive with the axe. 

image.png.1db570a81b9043c5615d31d462143a29.png

I also decide to promote Sakura at this time. She's level 16 and the xp drip from healing is becoming too slow for my patience. She goes into Onmyoji so I can start levelling her in scrolls. I know priestess is popular for her, but since I'm not using the battle rewards, I don't think there's a way for me to get her a shining bow, which takes a lot of the appeal out of that class for me. 
image.png.24f175a76b5fede7375cd522fbe1897b.png

Finally, Orochi goes into the next chapter at level 19 with 97 EXP,  so I leave her a master seal to use in the early part of the next fight. Here's how she turns out after that. 
image.png.482cadbc8d0cba91b5a5426006bb083a.png


Chapter 16: Right away going into this level I see the distant chests and the stairs and I know there's going to be thief pressure, so I push forward pretty aggressively into the first hall. Say, you remember all that work I did getting Kaze and Avatar to A rank so that Kaze would still be alive for this chapter? Yeah I'm feeling pretty dumb about that now. I miscount a tile, and Kaze takes an axe meant for Ryoma on top of an arrow meant for him, and that's the end of him. Like Hinoka he technically lives, but I'm just feeling so silly that he died so immediately after his would-be plot death, he literally died in the first enemy phase 😂😭. Anyway, we keep moving, Saizo is here so we don't have a chest-opening problem, thankfully. I take a little heat from the sorcerer in the first hall, but nothing uncontrolled. We push super fast up towards the top room and intercept the thief who spawns up there before he can even get out of that room. I make a critical mistake as I'm moving into the room with the strategist, and I click Swap on Oboro instead of Switch (fml). This strands Kaden on the frontline in a chokepoint, with his turn already spent, so nobody can even get close enough to help 😕 . I'm lucky that the only real threat left in the next room was a mage, or he'd have been toast. The rest of the map is pretty uneventful. Rinkah catches the last thief and we recover all the loot, Orochi deals with the boss, everybody is happy. Except Kaze, who's dead.
Lost: Kaze

Avatar reaches 20 after this mission and promotes. His problematic defenses (and the whole, if he dies it's over thing) mean he spends a lot of his time supporting others in guard stance. Still, he comes out every once in a while to hit something really hard, since that's mostly what he's good at. 


image.png.446f56aaff328960b62577a7fd1425f3.png

 

Aand that's all I have for now!

Edited by squirmonkey
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1 hour ago, squirmonkey said:

Haha I don't mind! I'm happy to see the discussion, even if it is a bit off topic.

My bad.

1 hour ago, squirmonkey said:

After Chapter 15, Rinkah is my first to level 20, so she promotes. I pick Oni Chieftain because I want the extra Mag for her to use with the Bolt Axe. I don't think I'll probably waste time levelling her in scrolls since she's already so destructive with the axe. 

image.png.1db570a81b9043c5615d31d462143a29.png

Your Rinkah seems to be pretty speed blessed. Great defense too considering that they just promoted. The HP seems kind of low, but I think that's just a Fates thing if I remember correctly. There's a very good chance that she'll cap defense, which would make even endgame enemies do pretty little damage, especially if she is paired up with a defense class unit or gets rally defense from Scarlet. Speed pair ups would work too. 22 is decent, and enemies even in chapter 20 only have like 18 or something, unless they're heroes or berserkers. 

1 hour ago, squirmonkey said:

I also decide to promote Sakura at this time. She's level 16 and the xp drip from healing is becoming too slow for my patience. She goes into Onmyoji so I can start levelling her in scrolls. I know priestess is popular for her, but since I'm not using the battle rewards, I don't think there's a way for me to get her a shining bow, which takes a lot of the appeal out of that class for me. 
image.png.24f175a76b5fede7375cd522fbe1897b.png

I wonder how she feels about losing Hinoka. That must've affected her mentally. If Ryoma dies, then maybe she'll be the new ruler of Hoshido. Yes, she's prioritized over Takumi. 

1 hour ago, squirmonkey said:

Finally, Orochi goes into the next chapter at level 19 with 97 EXP,  so I leave her a master seal to use in the early part of the next fight. Here's how she turns out after that. 
image.png.482cadbc8d0cba91b5a5426006bb083a.png

I'd be too scared to use Orochi in an ironman. You are braver than I in the ways of Birthright-ing. 

1 hour ago, squirmonkey said:

I miscount a tile, and Kaze takes an axe meant for Ryoma on top of an arrow meant for him, and that's the end of him. Like Hinoka he technically lives, but I'm just feeling so silly that he died so immediately after his would-be plot death, he literally died in the first enemy phase 😂😭

It must suck to narrowly avoid death, only to die a much less impressive one immediately afterwards. He could've been the noble hero that sacrificed his life to save Corrin in the name of Hoshido's future. Instead, he'll be the clown who got in Ryoma's way. Saizo must feel embarrassed. Ryoma is probably devastated. Azama is laughing.

1 hour ago, squirmonkey said:

Avatar reaches 20 after this mission and promotes. His problematic defenses (and the whole, if he dies it's over thing) mean he spends a lot of his time supporting others in guard stance. Still, he comes out every once in a while to hit something really hard, since that's mostly what he's good at. 

image.png.446f56aaff328960b62577a7fd1425f3.png

I'm guessing the dracoshields will be poured to this fella when you get more. It's certainly not bad defense, but if you want to avoid death from 2 late game berserkers, you'll probably want a lot more. Luckily, tonics and food can help there. Birthright sends an important message. Don't skip lunch. You'll die.

Any paralogues planned yet? Shiro is donion rings if he ends up fighting a herd of promoted units, unless you use rescue strats, but it's easy to mess up and die on turn 1 that way. It's a shame that we won't get to see the all powerful Lady Candace, but I'm sure there'll be other exciting moments. Chapter 16 actually feels quite tricky at times, so I wonder how that one will turn out.

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1 hour ago, Shaky Jones said:

Your Rinkah seems to be pretty speed blessed. Great defense too considering that they just promoted. The HP seems kind of low, but I think that's just a Fates thing if I remember correctly.

Yeah, she's turning out pretty great. More HP would be better, this is what she has after I fed her a seraph robe. I mostly keep the avatar paired under her and he contributes a couple points each to str/speed/skill/def plus the bonus from Supportive. 

1 hour ago, Shaky Jones said:

I'd be too scared to use Orochi in an ironman. You are braver than I in the ways of Birthright-ing. 

Yeah, the low defense is scary, but honestly units with better defense still go down in 1-2 hits if I'm not being careful, so that's a bit of a wash. She's really shining as an anti-magic unit though, as her towering Res score is the best on my team by a big margin, especially with Kaze gone. She's a little weak in the speed department, but there's no shortage of speed pair ups for her. She's been particularly useful against units with magic attacks but low res, like the bolt axe guy from a couple chapters ago. I've had bad luck with her in past runs, but she seems to be turning out pretty usable this time. 

 

1 hour ago, Shaky Jones said:

I'm guessing the dracoshields will be poured to this fella when you get more. It's certainly not bad defense, but if you want to avoid death from 2 late game berserkers, you'll probably want a lot more. Luckily, tonics and food can help there. Birthright sends an important message. Don't skip lunch. You'll die.

 

It's such a problemm especially since I missed the first dracoshield 😕 . The really low resistance is also scary, there are way too many enemy mages in some of these levels, but fortunately he's fast enough that he almost never gets doubled by anyone who matters. 

 

1 hour ago, Shaky Jones said:

Any paralogues planned yet? Shiro is donion rings if he ends up fighting a herd of promoted units, unless you use rescue strats, but it's easy to mess up and die on turn 1 that way. It's a shame that we won't get to see the all powerful Lady Candace, but I'm sure there'll be other exciting moments. Chapter 16 actually feels quite tricky at times, so I wonder how that one will turn out.

I... I don't know. In a non ironman run I'd normally plan to save the paralogues for quite a bit later in the run, but now with people able to die any old time, it feels much harder to plan for. Honestly though the pairups and child pairing part of the game was never my strongsuit, so I mostly just end up going with what happens naturally based on my very shallow instincts of what pairings will perform well. If you have any suggestions, I'd be happy to hear them! Also, Chapter 16 is the one I just did? Which chapter did you mean? 

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4 minutes ago, squirmonkey said:

Chapter 16 is the one I just did? Which chapter did you mean? 

Aw shoot. I mixed chapter 16 with something else. Yeah, you did do the one I was thinking of. I think the next difficult chapter will probably be chapter 21. I keep thinking the rainbow sage one happens much earlier (I thought you were talking about that chapter where Kaze got sent to the shadow realm). Whoops. I don't have any particular pair ups in mind to recommend, but I'll let you know if I think of a funny one.

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Alright! Two more chapters done, here's the news

Chapter 17: This chapter is pretty boring. But it was a good opportunity to get some XP into some of my unpromoted units. The big reinforcement wave came just as I wrapped up the second village, which was good timing. There was one moment in the bottom left where I almost didn't have enough actions, but for the most part, the level was quite uneventful. 

After this chapter, we have two more promotions, both of whom I feel are turning out pretty well

image.png.f0ab8ab9bb8533c0768c8ccadb0f6dfb.pngimage.png.53df7f3c0459982fede2485c77a57b5f.png

Subaki could use a little more Str and Mozu could use a little more Res, but overall I'm pretty happy with Subaki's defenses and Mozu's speed/skill.

Chapter 18: I didn't like this level very much. Just lots of boring faceless and annoying reinforcements. I split into two teams and sent one each way. When Leo moved left to hit the dragon vein I used Ryoma to pull and kill Niles without much issue. Then Leo moved back to center and spawned a big wave, big enough that I had to pull back to protect some of my squishier units in some defensible corners near the bottom of the map. I'd expected that Leo would then go to the right and hit that dragon vein, and I'd get a shot at Odin, but he didnt. He went down the left side and attacked with Odin. Because I had my shockingly low-Res avatar on that side, and a ton of faceless in the way, I couldn't get to Odin without risking more damage than I was comfortable with, so I killed what faceless I could and then had Subaki finish Leo with the Beast Killer to cut the level short. So in the end I didn't get the Horse Spirit, which is a shame.
Lost: Horse Spirit

Two more promotions this level!
image.png.c65b3836353b8c5623a2cc7ec6c21c81.png

Takumi is struggling a little bit. He's short of the Strength and Speed and Def/Resistance I'd want for him to be a really potent unit. Fujin Yumi and Raider Yumi can make up for these flaws somewhat, but he could be better. 
image.png.c0e93c96aa846b80af4e7327cef5a3e2.png
 

Kaden is working out well. His speed is excellent (I don't have him equipped with either stone in this photo) and having picked up the Beastrune is improving his survivability quite a lot. Lots of health too. More Strength would be nice, but we can't have everything. 

Aand that's where we're at! I think the rainbow sage level is next, which I'm not really looking forward to, since I hate that map...

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1 hour ago, squirmonkey said:

image.png.f0ab8ab9bb8533c0768c8ccadb0f6dfb.pngimage.png.53df7f3c0459982fede2485c77a57b5f.png

Subaki could use a little more Str and Mozu could use a little more Res, but overall I'm pretty happy with Subaki's defenses and Mozu's speed/skill

I forget that falcon knights can use staves in this game. He'd be great with a guard naginata. After all, he IS perfect. 

Mozu looks pretty strong. Other than her HP, she seems ready to abolish nobility.

1 hour ago, squirmonkey said:

image.png.c65b3836353b8c5623a2cc7ec6c21c81.png

Takumi is struggling a little bit. He's short of the Strength and Speed and Def/Resistance I'd want for him to be a really potent unit. Fujin Yumi and Raider Yumi can make up for these flaws somewhat, but he could be better. 

Ouch. Poor Takamine. Lost his sister AND is losing to a farm lady. He's only strong for the bow that he didn't craft. Too bad Kiragi can't use the Fujin Yumi. 

1 hour ago, squirmonkey said:

image.png.c0e93c96aa846b80af4e7327cef5a3e2.png
 

Kaden is working out well. His speed is excellent (I don't have him equipped with either stone in this photo) and having picked up the Beastrune is improving his survivability quite a lot. Lots of health too. More Strength would be nice, but we can't have everything

I wonder why kitsune have high res? Does their fur just deflect magic? You'd think fire would burn their tail. I'd say his strength is alright for Kaden standards. I had to reclass him into the vanguard dlc class to make his strength good for endgame.

1 hour ago, squirmonkey said:

Chapter 18: I didn't like this level very much. Just lots of boring faceless and annoying reinforcements.

I just say "screw you" to Leo and immediately bully him to end the chapter immediately. Sure I miss out on the items, but I ain't about to deal with discount shrek reinforcements while he just sits there eating tomatoes.

1 hour ago, squirmonkey said:

Aand that's where we're at! I think the rainbow sage level is next, which I'm not really looking forward to, since I hate that map...

Aw cone on that's mean! He's been waiting his whole life for this. Those enemies on the sage map love to murder innocent travelers seeking knowledge or power just so he can give you a speech about you already having what you need. Great guy.

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  • 2 weeks later...

And I'm back! Been kinda busy with life lately but I got a few more chapters in. And boy, did I forget how bad the midgame of birthright is. 

Chapter 19: The rainbow sage chapter AKA the "Do you know what the button is to look at the enemy stats chapter". Still, the super low defenses enemies make it easy to train up everyone who wasn't 20 yet. I spent a long long time trying to figure out what to do about the high crit unit behind the boss, only for it to then NOT ATTACK DLSFKLJI making the only potentially challenging thing in the entire level moot, and my strategy for neutralizing him pointless. Big womp. Anyhow, we got some promotions

image.png.5e7822c11ecb1ae683effc11b5f82aa1.png

Silas... well, he's got Str and Def anyhow. But mostly underperforming, 15 speed at this point is just too little for a cavalier. His niche is mostly rolling up on archers and one shotting them with steel sword. I've tossed him in Great Knight so I can give Sophie Luna and then hopefully she can take over for him. 

image.png.f3f3ed24c44fc67508b9a077e17718c3.png

Oboro has grown into a pretty compelling all-arounder, which I feel like is pretty standard for her. She has workable stats everywhere that counts, and seal def is especially nice on a tankier unit. She'll likely continue to be usable for a bit. 


image.png.309c34f6bc1fce7344d1409e043380f0.png

Saizo is filling the ninja niche well, though I would like more speed. Still, he does decent work with the sting and flame shuriken, and performs the ever vital ninja role of being a backpack that gives +1 movement. Off to master ninja he goes. 

image.png.3a4b730e24aa22a41a2b4b0cb264af7e.png

Kagero... certainly has fewer stats than Saizo, but she has the ones that matter, so she's still useful, and Dual Shuriken helps make up for her skill problem, so she's doing just fine for now. 


Onward we march!
 

Chapter 20: Why does this level even exist? It's so easy. It's slow, easy, repetitive. Honestly a terrible chapter>

Chapter 21: We did fine here. Rinkah and the Bolt Axe made the stone golems pretty trivial since they couldn't hurt her and she could two-shot them with a Rally Magic. The fact that the units pull really slowly mostly makes a tank and spank approach really easy to pull off, since you can pull the stoney bois out of position. The dragon veins are... ugh. I don't want to do a rant about how poorly designed this is, but I dont like it at all. I especially dislike that it doesn't show you where the bridges are going to appear, like it does with every other dragon vein in the game!

I feel like the end part of Birthright gets more challenging, so I'm hoping for things to pick up again soon!

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On 11/2/2021 at 8:42 PM, squirmonkey said:

I especially dislike that it doesn't show you where the bridges are going to appear, like it does with every other dragon vein in the game!

That...is very strange, actually.

What's the ruling on Paladin vs Great Knight for Silas?

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