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Special Heroes (Ninja Training)

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The passive skills are all kinds of underwhelming. Holy shit. Literally every unit other than the Duo has only 2 passive skills.

Igrene's stat spread is known from the trailer to be 40/43/38/22/30, which is a lot of Atk and is basically Duo Lyn with Atk and Spd switched. For comparison, Duo Lyn has 40/38/42/21/26. Her weapon is the same as Lyn's, but with the Slaying effect traded out for refined Grimoire's teleportation effect, which is kind of terrifying on a unit with that much Atk and a Brave weapon.

The new inheritable weapons are similar to last year's weapons, but with boosted Atk based on a Spd comparison instead of boosted Spd. Pretty neat.

Shinon is another infantry red bow, which is a reminder that every single red bow available in the game is infantry except for Bride Shanna. Cavalry red bow when?

Duo Corrin finally brings us a new unconditional Brave tome, the first, I think, since Dancer Reinhardt's and Dancer Ishtar's, and it again has the same base effect as Duo Lyn's weapon, but with the Slaying effect this time traded out for Gigascalibur/Vassal's Blade's base effect, which at least allows her to deal guaranteed damage against bulkier units. Her base 41/40 offenses tie Harmonic Leaf's for the highest among ranged cavalry, but with Atk and Spd switched.

Shamir's axe looks to be a mambele, which is an African throwing axe, more commonly known as the weapon that Breath of the Wild's Lizalfos weapons are based off of. They look pretty cool, but they also look a bit silly when oversized and used as a melee weapon.

 

I still can't take Igrene seriously when she has Hara Yumi's voice. Even less so now that she's a ninja.

Appearance-wise, they all look pretty good. Male Corrin gets points for the traditional-styled clouds, though. I've always loved the look of those.

Edited by Ice Dragon

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Oh, I somehow missed that Duo Corrin is a brave tome. With some extra effects.

There's no excuse to not refine Reinhardt and Olwen's Dire Thunder now.

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Igrene: Ninja of Nabata feels weaker than Lyn: Ninja-Friend Duo. While the extra mobility is nice, the lack of Slaying effect makes her a lot weaker in terms of combat, and I am not sure the limited increase in mobility is enough to justify it. I think she is better on defense than offense, as the decrease in predictability from warping is better under that scenario.

Shinon: Sharptongue Ninja brings an upgraded Brave Bow! There might be a chance that Ninja Yumi will make a lot of exclusive bows obsolete.

Corrin: Daylight Ninja Act got Special Spiral and Swift Sparrow, which is nice.

Corrin: Nightfall Ninja Act is nice, but I think she is outclassed by Leif: Destined Scion as a Galeforcer.

2 hours ago, Alexmender said:

Two Duo Heroes in a row, huh? Duos are better than Harmonics overall so that doesn't bother me one bit.

I would not say Duos are better than Harmonizeds overall. In a vacuum where you are just forming a team out of random units, Duos are better in that regard, but if you take into account that most players plan their teams, then there is not much difference between them. Harmonized Heroes can affect the whole map, and the team restrictions will becomes less of an issue over time as each game can form more and more specific types of teams without relying on other games.

For example, for an Aether Raids ranged Galeforce team, Harmonizeds completely outclass Duos right now with Leif: Destined Scions and Dorothea: Twilit Harmony giving your team a total of four actions between just those two units, and those two units have a good chance of activating their Harmonized skills despite how prolific Duo's Hinderances are. No Duo Hero combination can replicate that yet with the same ease and effectiveness. In contrast, our kunoichi Galeforcers have Galeforce as their Duo skill, so that makes it a loss reliable; and for the Heroes themselves, the two Duos can only has recoil damage as their sole means of safely landing in HP range for Wings of Mercy, whereas Leif: Destined Scrions can use both recoil and Miracle to safely land into HP range.

Edited by XRay

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I can't help, but feel a bit dissapointed by this banner. Two Corrins is a little much and I don't really like Shinon. So iI already don't care much for 3/4th of the banner.

Igrene is cool though. Good art, pretty rare class typing and a unit  I wasn't expecting. Shamir is cool too even if yet another axe tt freebie isn't. How long has it been again since daggers got anything in the demote pool? The fe4 dancer banner?

Probably going a tiny bit for for colourless and trying to get the 4 star focus, but I won't be spending too many orbs on this one.

Edited by Sasori

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More translating:

The name of the banner, "Ninja Training", is "忍者姉妹の試練" (ninja shimai no shiren), "The Ninja Sisters' Test".

Igrene's epithet, "Ninja of Nabata", is "ナバタの守護忍" (nabata no shugo-nin), "Nabata's Guardian Ninja", which is a play on her regular version's epithet, "ナバタの守護神" (nabata no shugoshin), "Nabata's Guardian Deity".

Nabata Kunai is "くノ一の飛刀" (kunoichi no hitō), "Kunoichi's Throwing Knife". The word 飛刀 (hitō) is not actually a standard word in Japanese and seems to be a borrowing from Chinese. It literally translates as "flying knife".

Shinon's epithet, "Sharptongue Ninja", is "直截痛烈の忍者" (chokusetsu tsūretsu no ninja), "Straightforward and Scathing Ninja", both referring to his manner of speech. It's not a direct reference, but it mirrors the format of his regular version's epithet, "辛辣皮肉の射手" (shinratsu hiniku no ite), "Sharp and Cynical Archer", again both referring to his manner of speech.

Ninja Yumi is "忍の和弓" (shinobi no wakyū), "Ninja's Japanese Bow". I honestly have no idea if 忍 is supposed to be pronounced "nin" or "shinobi" when written as a single character. Pronounced as "nin", it's a different standard Japanese word, meaning "patience" or "endurance", whereas pronounced as "shinobi", it would normally be written as "忍び" instead. And now that's going to be bothering me.

Corrin's epithet, "Daylight Ninja Act", is "白夜の忍者見習?" (byakuya no ninja minarai?), "Hoshido's Ninja Apprentice?"

Ninja Naginata is "忍の薙刀" (shinobi no naginata), "Ninja's Naginata".

Corrin's epithet, "Nightfall Ninja Act", is "暗夜の忍者姉妹?" (an'ya no ninja shimai?), "Nohr's Ninja Sisters?"

Ninjutsu Scrolls is "双風忍法帳" (sōfū ninpō-chō), "Dual-Wind Ninja Arts Scroll".

Shamir's epithet, "Lone-Moon Ninja", is "孤月の忍者" (kogetsu no ninja), "Lone-Moon Ninja".

Edited by Ice Dragon

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So, uh ... Heroes is making it absolutely unambiguous that they consider m!Corrin to be the one that went Hoshido and f!Corrin for Nohr, I'm guessing. As if the Legendary wasn't already blatant enough. 

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53 minutes ago, XRay said:

I would not say Duos are better than Harmonizeds overall. In a vacuum where you are just forming a team out of random units, Duos are better in that regard, but if you take into account that most players plan their teams, then there is not much difference between them. Harmonized Heroes can affect the whole map, and the team restrictions will becomes less of an issue over time as each game can form more and more specific types of teams without relying on other games.

For example, for an Aether Raids ranged Galeforce team, Harmonizeds completely outclass Duos right now with Leif: Destined Scions and Dorothea: Twilit Harmony giving your team a total of four actions between just those two units, and those two units have a good chance of activating their Harmonized skills despite how prolific Duo's Hinderances are. No Duo Hero combination can replicate that yet with the same ease and effectiveness. In contrast, our kunoichi Galeforcers have Galeforce as their Duo skill, so that makes it a loss reliable; and for the Heroes themselves, the two Duos can only has recoil damage as their sole means of safely landing in HP range for Wings of Mercy, whereas Leif: Destined Scrions can use both recoil and Miracle to safely land into HP range.

True, although Plegian Dorothea isn't that much better than New Years Peony due to the former needing to be within 2 spaces from a Genealogy/3H ally to activate the dance skill (just like Halloween Y!Tiki), while the latter needs to be adjacent but works with any unit. You're trading positioning flexibility for a bigger selection of units as you're not bound by roster.

It doesn't help that at the end of the day most people will play favorites and have lopsided rosters, which  will lead to having a lack of options for certain games (personally I am really lacking in Binding Blade and Fates units due to not being the biggest fan of said games) which greatly diminishes the value of Harmonics over Duos. 

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42 minutes ago, Alexmender said:

True, although Plegian Dorothea isn't that much better than New Years Peony due to the former needing to be within 2 spaces from a Genealogy/3H ally to activate the dance skill (just like Halloween Y!Tiki), while the latter needs to be adjacent but works with any unit. You're trading positioning flexibility for a bigger selection of units as you're not bound by roster.

It doesn't help that at the end of the day most people will play favorites and have lopsided rosters, which  will lead to having a lack of options for certain games (personally I am really lacking in Binding Blade and Fates units due to not being the biggest fan of said games) which greatly diminishes the value of Harmonics over Duos. 

Having Dance/Sing activate within two spaces rather than one and being able to target only units from certaing games are a pretty big deal. In Aether Raids, being able to trigger Dance/Sing from 2 spaces away gives you a lot more flexability to help avoid Traps, as Traps are often clumped together. Additionally, having Dance/Sing triggering only certain units but not others is more beneficial than triggering it for all units, as you have finer control over who gets Danced/Sung to. Peony: Álfar Dream Duo accidentally Dancing/Singing Ullr when you need Leif: Destined Scions to Galeforce could be a problem.

Being bound by the roster is not a huge deal in my opinion once every game has a unit for every role. For example, now that every game has a Dancer/Singer, you can make a decent general purpose player phase team with any game. There is a huge issue with using Harmonized Heroes in super tank teams due to some games still lacking strong super tanks and/or supports, but that will get resolved eventually.

Playing favorites is a personal preference decision though, and it does not really change how strong a particular unit or mechanic is. It is like saying Lucina: Brave Princess is not good because your favorite supertank is a magical unit rather than a physical unit.

1 hour ago, Sasori said:

I can't help, but feel a bit dissapointed by this banner. Two Corrins is a little much and I don't really like Shinon. So iI already don't care much for 3/4th of the banner.

Igrene is cool though. Good art, pretty rare class typing and a unit  I wasn't expecting. Shamir is cool too even if yet another axe tt freebie isn't. How long has it been again since daggers got anything in the demote pool? The fe4 dancer banner?

Sothe is pretty amazing, and he got his Refine not too long ago. Kaze will get his in the next batch I believe. It is not much, but it is something.

Yuri is not a demote, but he can be guarantee summoned, and he is pretty good and very fun. Lyn: Ninja-Friend Duo is not a demote either, but she was given away for free for a limited time. They are not in the demote pool, but one is easier to get compared to Heroes without a guaranteed summon, and the other is free.

Edited by XRay

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double post

Edited by XRay

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1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Pronounced as "nin", it's a different standard Japanese word, meaning "patience" or "endurance", whereas pronounced as "shinobi", it would normally be written as "忍び" instead. And now that's going to be bothering me.

And apparently, it's probably "shinobi". One data point is scientific enough, right? Trailer reviews are starting to appear, and Japanese YouTubers doing trailer reviews are a godsend.

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1 hour ago, XRay said:

Sothe is pretty amazing, and he got his Refine not too long ago. Kaze will get his in the next batch I believe. It is not much, but it is something.

Yuri is not a demote, but he can be guarantee summoned, and he is pretty good and very fun. Lyn: Ninja-Friend Duo is not a demote either, but she was given away for free for a limited time. They are not in the demote pool, but one is easier to get compared to Heroes without a guaranteed summon, and the other is free.

True. All good units and I often see Yuri being a complete powerhouse. But I was more talking in the way of non prf weapons. Some fun little tools like Amiti boom, plegian weapon or things like that.

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Fun fact: Robins and Byleths have never been released together (since base F Robin was a GHB and base M Byleth was a unique release), but Corrins have now been released together a total of 3 times: launch, Adrift, and Ninja Training.

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Where are the knives swords.

Wow this banner is underwhelming. Unless you're playing favorites, everyone on this banner other than Duo!Corrin is a fodder delivery service. Not even N!Igrene does anything unique unless you want H!Nowi-but-physical (or don't have H!Nowi), and even then I'm leery because N!Igrene is built for Spd and yet ISN'T quadding a fucking Axe Dragon in the trailer???

That said, I do have interests in lifting the Ninja Yumi and Ninja Naginata for my Dancer builds. If only I weren't saving orbs for the inevitable Ascended Laegjarn spark...

 

e: I did not look at the colors and assumed Igrene was Red, not Colorless, so she's not a comparison to H!Nowi. She's Duo!Lyn trading the Duo Skill for H!Nowi's movement silliness. That's... honestly even worse.

e2: It was not an Axe Dragon in the trailer. Whoops.

Edited by Some Jerk

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Mostly Fates characters and not one of them is an actual ninja. RIP my ideal banner (which I've posted several times already so I won't put it here now)...and New Years drunk Shinon + New Years drunk Manuella, all in one blow. Ow. Also, kudos to those who guessed Shamir. That really looked like a high ponytail to me, but clearly that was not the case. Usually, I'm better than this...hm. Ah, and then there's Hawkeye's daughter who seems to be here mainly for her chest (as per kunoichi tropes.) Urgh...

Anyway, the line from M!Corrin about trying to blend in with a crowd but his siblings calling to him was pretty good. XD Glad he's the demote. I may try to get him. (I seem to have unintentionally amassed a M!Corrin collection...but hey, people keep drawing him pretty, and I like the clouds in his crit art.)

I hope Shinon and Shamir get some interaction. They're pretty similar (expert archer mercenaries who are realistic and don't feel the need for pleasantries.)

So, all in all, hoping to nab M!Corrin and Shinon, but haaaa my wimpy orb supply... I still need Zihark (and maybe Navarre) from last year, too. Bleh. Oh well. At least I managed to get Halloween Byleth Sothis and Kurthnaga, even though it looks like I'll be waiting a year for Halloween Fallen M!Robin.

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1 hour ago, Mercakete said:

Mostly Fates characters and not one of them is an actual ninja. RIP my ideal banner (which I've posted several times already so I won't put it here now)...and New Years drunk Shinon + New Years drunk Manuella, all in one blow. Ow. Also, kudos to those who guessed Shamir. That really looked like a high ponytail to me, but clearly that was not the case. Usually, I'm better than this...hm. Ah, and then there's Hawkeye's daughter who seems to be here mainly for her chest (as per kunoichi tropes.) Urgh...

Anyway, the line from M!Corrin about trying to blend in with a crowd but his siblings calling to him was pretty good. XD Glad he's the demote. I may try to get him. (I seem to have unintentionally amassed a M!Corrin collection...but hey, people keep drawing him pretty, and I like the clouds in his crit art.)

I hope Shinon and Shamir get some interaction. They're pretty similar (expert archer mercenaries who are realistic and don't feel the need for pleasantries.)

So, all in all, hoping to nab M!Corrin and Shinon, but haaaa my wimpy orb supply... I still need Zihark (and maybe Navarre) from last year, too. Bleh. Oh well. At least I managed to get Halloween Byleth Sothis and Kurthnaga, even though it looks like I'll be waiting a year for Halloween Fallen M!Robin.

You commented all the characters added except the actual HYPE pick that is Ninja Elise with her outfit from Cipher, smh.

But seriously I love when this game pulls from Cipher original stuff. It's a way to keep the memory of it alive. Risen King Chrom soon?

Anyway, I will pull for the duo and than save for next banner.

 

SMH at IS giving Shitnon an alt. Are they really supporting racism just like that?

They need to create a seasonal Claude as compensation.

 

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38 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

You commented all the characters added except the actual HYPE pick that is Ninja Elise with her outfit from Cipher, smh.

But seriously I love when this game pulls from Cipher original stuff. It's a way to keep the memory of it alive. Risen King Chrom soon?

Anyway, I will pull for the duo and than save for next banner.

 

SMH at IS giving Shitnon an alt. Are they really supporting racism just like that?

They need to create a seasonal Claude as compensation.

 

Evidently, what's hype for you is "meh" for me and not even worth mentioning. I never could really get onto the Elise hype train. I just never understood it. She's okay, I guess? Kind of annoying, imo.

Also, Shinon's a skeptical and cynical guy toward everyone; it's just easy to push buttons with the Laguz. I have no idea how he became the poster boy for racism. It's not like he actually represents it, or is even nearly the worst offender. Izuka is a lot worse, for example, not to mention what happened with Begnion on the whole. And that's even ignoring all the anti-human Laguz out there. If you ask me, Shinon's basically on the Beorc side of the conflict just as much as Lethe is on the Leguz side of it. And making a Shinon alt is hardly "supporting racism." Of course, this is all assuming you're serious about that and not making a joke.

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Well, the banner is okay-ish, not anything great or new, but atleast it wasn't as boring as the new heroes we just got, other than fjorm of course.

Igrene looks okay, but being the same class as duo lyn with a similar weapon that has no slaying and no duo skill, hurts her alot. The warping is good but it won't help that she's not too efficent in killing stuff. 

Shinon is just fodder, i'm personally feeding him to my Y!Innes so i can do funny stuff with the Ninja Yumi+ and Deadeye.

M!Corrin seems like a great demote with that special spiral, and outclasses S!Norne and S!Ogma imo.

F!Corrin + Elise is definetly wholesome, but i would have preferred M!Corrin + Sakura much more as Elise is quite boring to me and i favor Sakura much more.

Shamir is a nice pick, but she should have swapped with Shinon and been on the banner imo and been a sword, axe is so lame when Hana exists as a TT as well. 

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39 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

Evidently, what's hype for you is "meh" for me and not even worth mentioning. I never could really get onto the Elise hype train. I just never understood it. She's okay, I guess? Kind of annoying, imo.

Also, Shinon's a skeptical and cynical guy toward everyone; it's just easy to push buttons with the Laguz. I have no idea how he became the poster boy for racism. It's not like he actually represents it, or is even nearly the worst offender. Izuka is a lot worse, for example, not to mention what happened with Begnion on the whole. And that's even ignoring all the anti-human Laguz out there. If you ask me, Shinon's basically on the Beorc side of the conflict just as much as Lethe is on the Leguz side of it. And making a Shinon alt is hardly "supporting racism." Of course, this is all assuming you're serious about that and not making a joke.

^^^^

Yo! Merca, my buddy, you alright? It was very clearly a joke. It would be like saying that if you like Narcian/Lifis you support sex offenders. Or if you like Sonia you must support abusing kids.

Plus, even among the playable cast of Tellius there are worse racists (like SOREN who everyone just forgives for his sad backstoty).

It just became a meme that Shinon is the posterboy for racism, I guess because he wasn't a major character with a lot going on and Jill was already the "reformed racist" trope so the role fell onto him. Nothing deep.

Let me guess, you had to deal with some obnoxious Shinon-hater on some other site today? I feel you, that can get annoying real quick.

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16 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

^^^^

Yo! Merca, my buddy, you alright? It was very clearly a joke. It would be like saying that if you like Narcian/Lifis you support sex offenders. Or if you like Sonia you must support abusing kids.

Plus, even among the playable cast of Tellius there are worse racists (like SOREN who everyone just forgives for his sad backstoty).

It just became a meme that Shinon is the posterboy for racism, I guess because he wasn't a major character with a lot going on and Jill was already the "reformed racist" trope so the role fell onto him. Nothing deep.

Let me guess, you had to deal with some obnoxious Shinon-hater on some other site today? I feel you, that can get annoying real quick.

I don't think it was that obvious. Remember, tone can be difficult to tell online.

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Weirdly the first banner I've been interested in for a while. Time to blow all those orbs I've been saving and get nothing a la desire sensor!

 

Though to be fair, it's only the duo unit I'm interested in anyway, it seems a lot of people share the same thoughts as me in that the rest of the banner is kind of underwhelming.

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53 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

^^^^

Yo! Merca, my buddy, you alright? It was very clearly a joke. It would be like saying that if you like Narcian/Lifis you support sex offenders. Or if you like Sonia you must support abusing kids.

Plus, even among the playable cast of Tellius there are worse racists (like SOREN who everyone just forgives for his sad backstoty).

It just became a meme that Shinon is the posterboy for racism, I guess because he wasn't a major character with a lot going on and Jill was already the "reformed racist" trope so the role fell onto him. Nothing deep.

Let me guess, you had to deal with some obnoxious Shinon-hater on some other site today? I feel you, that can get annoying real quick.

Thanks for clarifying that it was a joke. It can be hard to tell with people actually having that kind of stance out there. And it's not really that I've come across Shinon-haters so much as this sort of reasoning is all too rampant online regarding accusing actual people of being racist when such behavior wasn't even displayed. Not at me personally, by the way, but I've seen some dumb stuff on the topic and was unsure of if it was coming up again. Ah, and I can't actually recall Soren ever being racist. I recall him being mistrusting and scathing of just about anyone and everyone, though.

36 minutes ago, Othin said:

I don't think it was that obvious. Remember, tone can be difficult to tell online.

Yup. This.

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I'm not sure Soren is more racist than Shinon. Soren can(eventually after a very rocky start) at least work with Laguz through grinded teeth and bottle it up which Shinon seems completely unwilling to do.

And while Soren's past shouldn't justify him being such a brat its at least more sympathetic to hate Laguz because they mistreating you as a child than it is to hate them because you're  an all around bad person and it just being one of many, many bad traits. 

Shinon is a scumbag but that said....I think he's a perfect candidate to get alts. Aside from Ike's immediate circle of loved ones he's easily the most important and interesting of the Greil mercenaries and he's very popular. Rather than Shinon's inclusion being ''supporting racism'' its just giving an alt to a character who objectively deserves one. Horrible, horrible, horrible person. But a good character, a good unit and a good candidate for alts. 

Quote

Ah, and I can't actually recall Soren ever being racist. I recall him being mistrusting and scathing of just about anyone and everyone, though.

I recall him calling Mordecai a sub human who should get lost straight to his face, and feeling vindicated when Mordecai attacked him for it. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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I agree with above poster that Soren had more hate towards the Laguz in both games he is very nasty to them.  Shinon is nasty to everyone and while love him or hate him he is at least the same across the board to everyone.  I personally like Shinon, but that comes from me enjoying someone calling out Ike on things.  Anyway I will be pulling for Shinon and maybe M!corrin.

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11 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I recall him calling Mordecai a sub human who should get lost straight to his face, and feeling vindicated when Mordecai attacked him for it. 

And Soren did begin conjuring up wind magic to attack Mordy.

 

For Shinon, from the perspective of FE characters in general, I don't mind there being a few bad people amongst the crowd of 30-60 playables every Fire Emblem game has. It doesn't mean they are people I'd want to be with IRL, but when we're talking an army made of so many people from across a world, a few questionable people among the "good" guys is "realistic". Insofar as this high fantasy franchise wants to be realistic. In a typical JRPG, where the cast is usually much smaller, like 8 or so at most, having a cast of all sincerely virtuous people is less unrealistic than FE. So I don't quite expect nor desire it as I do with FE.

We get philanderers in practically every game, we get the occasional pickpocket thief, AnnAvarice is nowadays, Fates gave us Peri and the courtesan that is Charlotte, what's the problem with one arrant snob? PoR also gave us Makalov, a hopeless drunkard and gambler, a petty and harmless "bad" person who just so happens to be among the heroes. I don't like Makalov, but his presence is distinctive, and when examined at the macroscopic level, better for FE.

Again, this does not mean I would want to interact with any of these bad people IRL. I can separate fantasy from reality. In reality, I don't want to fight, I don't want needless chaos, but I love it in games, it's entertaining purely as fiction. Nonetheless, I understand why people don't make the same divide, or perhaps don't unevenly apply the same divide exactly as I do. I understand if, for reasons I won't inquire about, if someone really hated Shinon but loved Anna, whereas I'm more the complete opposite regarding these two.🙂

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