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Special Heroes (Ninja Training)

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Talking about special heroes from this year.

4zcbs936hex71.png

Red has only one demote. Blue has six. Green and Colorless have two so far.

Red and Colorless have three harmonic/duo units. Blue has one. Green has four so far.

Right now it's Green > Red=Colorless >>>>>>>>> blue

Edited by Naoshi

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48 minutes ago, Naoshi said:

Talking about special heroes from this year.

4zcbs936hex71.png

Red, Green, Colorless so far has only one demote.

Green has the most harmonic/duo units so far.

Quick correction, Green has two; Caspar and Alfonse. Still a lot better than Blue with six.

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5 minutes ago, TuxedoBird said:

Quick correction, Green has two; Caspar and Alfonse. Still a lot better than Blue with six.

You are right, I also forgot to count Raphael. I fixed it.

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56 minutes ago, Naoshi said:

Talking about special heroes from this year.

4zcbs936hex71.png

Red has only one demote. Blue has six. Green and Colorless have two so far.

Red and Colorless have three harmonic/duo units. Blue has one. Green has four so far.

Right now it's Green > Red=Colorless >>>>>>>>> blue

Not a single FE7 Special Heroes unit this year. At least, not yet.

I still want Christmas Brom more than anything, but if the Christmas Lilina leak is true, then I guess we'll get some FE7 characters then (since it'll be a Harmonic banner).

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9 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

For Shinon, from the perspective of FE characters in general, I don't mind there being a few bad people amongst the crowd of 30-60 playables every Fire Emblem game has. It doesn't mean they are people I'd want to be with IRL, but when we're talking an army made of so many people from across a world, a few questionable people among the "good" guys is "realistic". Insofar as this high fantasy franchise wants to be realistic. In a typical JRPG, where the cast is usually much smaller, like 8 or so at most, having a cast of all sincerely virtuous people is less unrealistic than FE. So I don't quite expect nor desire it as I do with FE.

Nonetheless, I understand why people don't make the same divide, or perhaps don't unevenly apply the same divide exactly as I do. I understand if, for reasons I won't inquire about, if someone really hated Shinon but loved Anna, whereas I'm more the complete opposite regarding these two.🙂

I agree with all of this. I enjoy having some morally dubious and “unpleasant” characters mixed into the cast, but some of them I like and some I detest. I can see how this would be the case with other people.

That aside, I’m one of those people you allude to in your last sentence. I hate Shinon and love Anna. I think she’s a decent person who’s a little too obsessed with money, but doesn’t do anything overly unscrupulous. She’s cheerful, persistent and has a tireless work ethic and an incredible passion for her job. I admire that and her entrepenurial spirit. Anna is also hilarious and gets herself into some comical situations in her supports.

Overall, I see what you’re saying. I can think of several morally dubious characters who I love, like Peri, Charlotte and Naesala, and some that I despise, such as Makalov, Sylvain and Yuri. I struggle to think of a deep reason why that is. I suppose I find some characters’ personalities, backstories, etc. compelling, entertaining and likeable and not others, regardless of whether they are “good” or not.

I would say the same about characters with “unpleasant/unfriendly/antisocial” personalities. Jakob is my second all-time favorite FE character, Panne is another favorite, and while Soren isn’t, I really like him; but I despise Maribelle, Severa and Saizo.

Now back to the main topic, the banner. Other than male Corrin, this banner’s characters were a total surprise. Not necessarily a bad surprise, though I am disappointed not to see Shura. At least it means he won’t be permanently stuck as an alt, and he still has a VERY good chance at being the GHB unit on the next Fates banner.

Three (technically two) of my favorite Fates characters are on the banner and I have two more future additions to my Corrin collection, along with my least favorite Tellius character (who is one of my least favorite characters in the whole series), and two other characters who I have no real opinion on.

I still struggle to see how the second silhouette is Shamir. It looks like it has long hair, and Shamir does not. 

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On 11/2/2021 at 10:09 PM, NSSKG151 said:

Interesting that we got a Duo unit here instead of a Harmonic. Corrin and Elise still looks cute together here though. Looks like @Landmaster finally got their fourth Elise even though she is just Corrin's sidekick here.

All the other units look nice here too. I think I might pull for everyone here (even though I just want the dudes to fodder their weapons off to other units). I know I really want to get that Ninja Yumi for New Years Anna especially since her high speed works well with it.

Unfortunately it's a Corrin alt at the end of the day. I'll still pull for both Corrins here but a bit unfortunate that the forth Elise may never really happen now.

At least she finally got some nice art on an alt.

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Stats [SPOILERS]:

Spoiler

tpgs91erehx71.png

F!Corrin & Elise
Super Asset(s): Atk, Spd, Def
Super Flaw(s): HP

M!Corrin
Super Asset(s): Atk
Super Flaw(s): HP, Res
*Swift Sparrow 2 is the 4* unlock.

Igrene
Super Asset(s): Spd
Super Flaw(s): HP, Atk, Res

Shinon
Super Asset(s): Atk, Spd
Super Flaw(s): HP, Def, Res

Shamir
Super Asset(s): Spd
Super Flaw(s): Def
*Atk/Spd 2 is the 4* unlock

And yes, Ninja Shamir is just a straight upgrade of Ninja Hana. Specifically, Ninja Shamir has +1 Atk, +3 Def, and +2 Res compared to Ninja Hana (HP and Spd are the same as Hana's).

Oh, and these new Ninja weapons cannot be refined (just like last year's set).

 

Edited by Tybrosion

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30 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:
  Hide contents

And yes, Ninja Shamir is just a straight upgrade of Ninja Hana. Specifically, Ninja Shamir has +1 Atk, +3 Def, and +2 Res compared to Ninja Hana (HP and Spd are the same as Hana's).

 

Spoiler

With Dragonflowers, Shamir is actually -1/+0/-1/+2/+1, which is notably a loss of 1 Spd.

 

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6 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:
  Reveal hidden contents

With Dragonflowers, Shamir is actually -1/+0/-1/+2/+1, which is notably a loss of 1 Spd.

 

Spoiler

That is, if you have the Infantry Dragonflowers to spare for Ninja Hana. 

Which personally, I cannot spare my Hana because I have eleven +10 Gen 1 infantry units (only three of which are at the max +20).

 

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The next genius who thinks they can get around the "well I'm technically talking about the banner but my post will be about that thing eclipse said to STFU about" will get a suspension.  Do I make myself clear?

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13 hours ago, eclipse said:

Yes.  Drop it.  Now.

My apologies. I never meant to be disruptive. Thanks for stepping in to keep things on topic/reining us in.

@Tybrosion @Naoshi

Wow, I didn't even notice that! So, are you guys anticipating a double special banner coming up with a bunch of blue demotes?

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One more translation thing with the Tempest Trials announcement:

Shuriken Cleaver is "忍の三叉斧" (shinobi no sansa-fu?), "Ninja's Three-Pronged Axe". Novel compound words are the bane of my existence. I assume it's "sansa-fu" instead of "mitsumata-ono", though it's entirely possible that both are correct.

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5 hours ago, Mercakete said:

Wow, I didn't even notice that! So, are you guys anticipating a double special banner coming up with a bunch of blue demotes?

I was referring to the Special Hero freebie pull that they give us for the game’s anniversary. The next one should have everyone from the Plegia banner to the 2022 New Year’s banner.

Though in regards to future Double Special Heroes banners, yeah there’ll probably be at least one that has two demotes on blue (and baby Lyon and bride Juno are the next two blues up as well).

That doesn’t mean we’ll get those two for certain on the next banner, they’re just the oldest blue seasonal units that haven’t been re-run yet. 

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39 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

I was referring to the Special Hero freebie pull that they give us for the game’s anniversary. The next one should have everyone from the Plegia banner to the 2022 New Year’s banner.

Though in regards to future Double Special Heroes banners, yeah there’ll probably be at least one that has two demotes on blue (and baby Lyon and bride Juno are the next two blues up as well).

That doesn’t mean we’ll get those two for certain on the next banner, they’re just the oldest blue seasonal units that haven’t been re-run yet. 

I see; thanks for clarifying that for me. I wonder who I'll pull when the time comes... Historically, I haven't had the best luck when compared to units I was aiming for. I guess we'll see.

 

But regarding this specific banner's characters, well... I went through what Sharena had to say about them. I didn't notice it at first, but goodness, Igrene's regular attack art is bolder than I'd first thought. I'm glad they included that white cloth, not that it's much... Heh, but the picture of Shinon playing a prank on Gatrie's cute. X3 Poor Gatrie just can't find him!

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On 11/3/2021 at 3:02 AM, Ice Dragon said:

And apparently, it's probably "shinobi". One data point is scientific enough, right? Trailer reviews are starting to appear, and Japanese YouTubers doing trailer reviews are a godsend.

Here's another data point: trailer review from サイコカス平岡

 

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14 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

And yes, Ninja Shamir is just a straight upgrade of Ninja Hana.

Honestly, the only thing that annoys me is that I actually like Shamir. I knew I was setting myself up for disappointment when I decided to merge Hana at the start of Gen 6, but why did her replacement have to be someone I liked? Heck, Hana has way better fodder too!

While I am a little miffed, I'm just kidding about the disappointment, don't worry. Shamir only scores 2 points higher anyway, right?

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Hahaha, I don't really know how I feel about this banner, good or bad. It seems alright. I'll be interested to see if anything gets shaken up. The weird color imbalance for the free summon banner is a bit wack though.

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So general consensus, will this years Ninja weapons be considered "better" than last years?

The Ninja Naginata and Shuriken Cleaver specifically, since they all have direct competition with the weapons last year. It's a comparison of +4 spd at all times to what amounts to +4 damage per hit if the unit has at least 8 spd over the target enemy...

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1 hour ago, Xenomata said:

So general consensus, will this years Ninja weapons be considered "better" than last years?

The Ninja Naginata and Shuriken Cleaver specifically, since they all have direct competition with the weapons last year. It's a comparison of +4 spd at all times to what amounts to +4 damage per hit if the unit has at least 8 spd over the target enemy...

The previous weapons look better for general use.

The new weapons look better for wall breaking if you have a means of inflicting Flash or you're using Windsweep (preferably with Null Follow-Up provided by Legendary Byleth or Duo Sothis, though that's optional). Wall breaking with the new weapons looks to work well with Flashing Blade 4, too, as that ends up totaling 9 × 4 = 36 guaranteed damage if the opponent has no damage reduction.

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some (or at least one) of the weapons from last year don't have a replacement yet - thinking ninja katana in particular. it kinda sucks for EP put it's still holding up for player-phase.

(also makes for a great arden speed meme build)

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8 hours ago, Xenomata said:

So general consensus, will this years Ninja weapons be considered "better" than last years?

The Ninja Naginata and Shuriken Cleaver specifically, since they all have direct competition with the weapons last year. It's a comparison of +4 spd at all times to what amounts to +4 damage per hit if the unit has at least 8 spd over the target enemy...

7 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

The previous weapons look better for general use.

The new weapons look better for wall breaking if you have a means of inflicting Flash or you're using Windsweep (preferably with Null Follow-Up provided by Legendary Byleth or Duo Sothis, though that's optional). Wall breaking with the new weapons looks to work well with Flashing Blade 4, too, as that ends up totaling 9 × 4 = 36 guaranteed damage if the opponent has no damage reduction.

I would argue Ninja Training Weapons are better for general use, and In The Moment Weapons are better for more niche applications.

The issue with Brave Weapons has always been their Atk rather than Spd. Spd is important for performance too, but Atk has a vastly bigger impact. I do not think most players worry about whether their fast Brave nuke can quad, but they do worry about whether their fast Brave nuke will get walled off. Spd+4 is nice, but if the fast Brave nuke can quad attack most units and even Spd tanks anyways, then the extra Spd is not really doing much.

The only niche I can think of for In The Moment Weapons is if you are creating a fast Brave nuke specifically for countering the fastest Spd tanks. But even then, you can still manipulate and swing stats heavily in your favor through buffs and debuffs (and Mythic stats for Aether Raids), so I am not convinced that Spd+4 makes a huge difference unless the nuke in question is a super slowpoke to begin with and you really want to turn a slow Brave nuke into a fast Brave nuke for whatever reason.

Edited by XRay

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13 hours ago, XRay said:

I would argue Ninja Training Weapons are better for general use, and In The Moment Weapons are better for more niche applications.

The issue with Brave Weapons has always been their Atk rather than Spd. Spd is important for performance too, but Atk has a vastly bigger impact. I do not think most players worry about whether their fast Brave nuke can quad, but they do worry about whether their fast Brave nuke will get walled off. Spd+4 is nice, but if the fast Brave nuke can quad attack most units and even Spd tanks anyways, then the extra Spd is not really doing much.

The only niche I can think of for In The Moment Weapons is if you are creating a fast Brave nuke specifically for countering the fastest Spd tanks. But even then, you can still manipulate and swing stats heavily in your favor through buffs and debuffs (and Mythic stats for Aether Raids), so I am not convinced that Spd+4 makes a huge difference unless the nuke in question is a super slowpoke to begin with and you really want to turn a slow Brave nuke into a fast Brave nuke for whatever reason.

Without a Spd boost, I don't think Brave units are capable of doubling many of the faster units out there. The typical exclusive weapon these days for fast units is granting at least +5 Spd on both phases, often +6, and Hana, who is extremely common in the Arena and doesn't have an exclusive weapon, always runs a Spd-refined weapon for +3 Spd. Arena Hana also commonly runs a Lull Spd (it's about a 50-50 split between Lull and Dodge), which prevents you from using Bonuses to swing your stats while also having bonuses on herself due to the prevalence of Rally.

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1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Without a Spd boost, I don't think Brave units are capable of doubling many of the faster units out there. The typical exclusive weapon these days for fast units is granting at least +5 Spd on both phases, often +6, and Hana, who is extremely common in the Arena and doesn't have an exclusive weapon, always runs a Spd-refined weapon for +3 Spd. Arena Hana also commonly runs a Lull Spd (it's about a 50-50 split between Lull and Dodge), which prevents you from using Bonuses to swing your stats while also having bonuses on herself due to the prevalence of Rally.

Hana: Focused Ninja +10+10+Spd with Spd Refine, Distant Pressure, Lull Atk/Spd, and Spd/Def Solo reaches 53+3+11=67 Spd if I did my math right.

Cordelia: Perfect Bride +10+20+Atk+Spd with double Brazens reaches 46+17=63 Spd.

Takumi: Prince at Play +10+15+Atk+Spd with double Brazens and Spd/Def Rein reaches 45+17+4=66 Spd.

Louise +10+10+Atk+Spd with double Brazens reaches 51+17=68 Spd.

Hm... I guess Arena could be an issue for Spd checks even with Chills on the support unit if you are using an old nuke. New nukes should be fine though with some Chill support. Aether Raids should not be an issue since you can run a bunch more Spd Mythics than defense for an extra Spd+8 or even +16, and PvE's Spd creep is so slow that it is not really relevant.

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